Ireland, failed state?

ChikiChiki

Not a failed state but more a declining state under current governance. That can be fixed of course.

Bribery and corruption sustains poverty. Money is pocketed by officials instead of being used for vital services such as healthcare and infrastructural improvement. We are certainly way behind in both largely as a result of past shenanigans.

Wildcard7

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

When people dismiss one's concerns, no wonder things remain bad. This bus strike along with the other 3 things I mention are wrong and Ireland would be a better country without them.

If you wanted a serious discussion you shouldn't have taken an unrealistic and extremist stance on the situation from square one.

Most people can relate to at least one of your points made, but taking those points to declare that Ireland has failed as a state makes you a spoiled brat with unrealistic ideas of the world in the eyes of most.


Mind you not even that's exlusive to Ireland. I'm coming from a country that is arguably organised a lot better than Ireland, and yet people constantly declare things like "This is the third time this week the train is 4 minutes late, we have the worst public transport", "I can't believe how much $Item costs in this country", "all our politicians are corrupt or incompetent" or "tenants have no right in this country". I often wonder if they ever left the place they're born or even read the news.


If Ireland is a failed state, then 95% of all states on this planet are failed. If all states are failed, none are failed. What's your point?

biko

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Ireland, failed state?

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated.

You appear to have answered your own question.



Real definition: "A failed state is a state whose political or economic system has become so weak that the government is no longer in control.
Your definition: "people are being forgotten and inconvenienced all the time"

There is a difference there...

mahamageehad

I've not been following the bus strike, but I'm living near Frankfurt and at the start of the year all buses went on strike in the state of Hessen (roughly the size of Munster) for almost 3 weeks. I depend on the bus for work, I was lucky to be able to work from home and get lifts during that time. So, plenty of places have bus strikes!

Yourself isit

archer22 wrote: »

To show how 'good' Ireland is many here compare it to places like Somalia or bombed and destroyed States like Libya
Hey how about comparing with its fellow western European democracies and decide is it a failure in comparasion to most of them.
It certainly is a failure compared to the rest of the northern non Latin countries.
Ireland is after all one of the PIGs.

That's not the title of this thread though. Or the original post.

"Ireland worse than Norway" wouldn't get this response. We'd agree.

archer22

murpho999 wrote: »

The comparison is done because the OP said Ireland is a failed state and people are defining what a failed state is.

As for being compared to other European states, we are still successful.

Being part of PIGS is an economic issue and Ireland has recovered the best out of the lot.

The only reason Ireland is not a complete disaster is because it has been able to export huge portions of its population to countries of the former British empire every time it has another self inflicted economic disaster.

Having the EU to pump billions in at those times is also a big help in keeping it floating.

The other "failed States" don't have those rescue mechanisms to save their asses every time they fock up.

elefant

archer22 wrote: »

To show how 'good' Ireland is many here compare it to places like Somalia or bombed and destroyed States like Libya
Hey how about comparing with its fellow western European democracies and decide is it a failure in comparasion to most of them.
It certainly is a failure compared to the rest of the northern non Latin countries.
Ireland is after all one of the PIGs.

Even better, compare us to other nations that were only formed in the last 100 years. We don't do too badly in comparisons with Poland, Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Estonia- the other nations formed shortly after the end of WW1.

murpho999

archer22 wrote: »

The only reason Ireland is not a complete disaster is because it has been able to export huge portions of its population to countries of the former British empire every time it has another self inflicted economic disaster.

Having the EU to pump billions in at those times is also a big help in keeping it floating.

The other "failed States" don't have those rescue mechanisms to save their asses every time they fock up.

Complete and utter rubbish.

You are also just talking about the economy which is not what defines a state or nationhood.

archer22

murpho999 wrote: »

Complete and utter rubbish.

You are also just talking about the economy which is not what defines a state or nationhood.

So everything else here is not a failure then

Health Service

Police force

Transport

All the basics of a functioning successful state.

murpho999

archer22 wrote: »

So everything else here is not a failure then

Health Service

Police force

Transport

All the basics of a functioning successful state.

No, they're functioning, not all ideal but functioning.

Below is the definition of a failed state;

"Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein.

Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions

Inability to provide public services

Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community"


Ireland is not a failed state in anyway, shape or form.

RWCNT

Is the OP the same poster that was comparing the bus strike to terrorism in the Bus Eireann thread?

elefant

archer22 wrote: »

So everything else here is not a failure then

Health Service

Police force

Transport

All the basics of a functioning successful state.

They might have issues, but they're not failures. They still function.

kunst nugget

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

When people dismiss one's concerns, no wonder things remain bad.

But if your concerns are so wildly exaggerated then what can people do besides dismiss them?

There's some shítty things about life in Ireland but a bus strike isn't one of them.

I've hated the influence of the Catholic Church on Irish society but surely its influence is at an all time low and continuing to dwindle. How much influence did they have on the recent Marriage Equality referendum?

The issues with the banking crisis and Garda corruption are concerns and need proper investigation but there still not indicative of a failed state. The health service and mental health facilities would be bigger priorities for me.

Like many others have said, I think you need to look at what is going on in the rest of the world before bemoaning Ireland as a country going down the tubes.

wakka12

on par with failed states of Somalia, Haiti and Yemen OP. Id love to see you experience life in a country thats actually hard to live in

I love Sean nos

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated.

You couldn't even get the first sentence of your demented rant correct. Suggest you install this:

RobertKK

Ireland is one of the best countries in the world.

Every country has people who do the wrong thing, unless one thinks people in other developed countries are simply robots.

We have it good in Ireland, there is always room for improvement, there will always be injustices, strikes and people who fail to see how lucky we are to be from somewhere like western Europe.

The news reports mostly the bad news, but look around you, I know I feel privileged that I come from a country that fights way above it's weight for the size of country we live in.

We rose from poverty, famine and occupation into one of the richest countries on the planet, despite recent history.

There is always room for improvement, the areas that need improvement don't mean we are a failed state.

Riddle101

Ireland has it's flaws but I wouldn't call it a failed state. It just needs to get it's head out of it's arse.

Pure tashte

I think the problem is that Ireland is generally compared to the most developed countries in the world in these circumstances. Fair enough, Ireland might be "shít" when compared to Canada, Australia, Holland, Scandinavian countries, etc. But even when compared to countries in Eastern Europe, which in themselves are pretty high on the development scale in global terms, maybe Ireland isn't that much of a hole after all.

It's a bit like saying Sunderland are shít cos they're bottom of the Premier Leaugue; they mightn't seem so bad if they had to play the League of Ireland champions.

kupus

RobertKK wrote: »

Ireland is one of the best countries in the world.

Every country has people who do the wrong thing, unless one thinks people in other developed countries are simply robots.

We have it good in Ireland, there is always room for improvement, there will always be injustices, strikes and people who fail to see how lucky we are to be from somewhere like western Europe.

The news reports mostly the bad news, but look around you, I know I feel privileged that I come from a country that fights way above it's weight for the size of country we live in.

We rose from poverty, famine and occupation into one of the richest countries on the planet, despite recent history.

There is always room for improvement, the areas that need improvement don't mean we are a failed state.

Say that to a guy that has worked all his life and didnt complain about it. He just got on with it.
tell him how great the country is and how the magnificent health service that he has contributed to all his life now has a year and a half waiting list to check and see if he has a life threatening condition now that he is a pensioner.

Yeah the country is grrreat shure it is.

RobertKK

kupus wrote: »

Say that to a guy that has worked all his life and didnt complain about it. He just got on with it.
tell him how great the country is and how the magnificent health service that he has contributed to all his life now has a year and a half waiting list to check and see if he has a life threatening condition now that he is a pensioner.

Yeah the country is grrreat shure it is.

My father recently was taken to hospital, we were told to prepare for the worse, they saved his life and he is well again.
He worked hard all his life - until he was unable to and is 90 years old.

We can all take the bad stories and make out all the bad stories are the reality. I could not complain about what the health service did for my father, he doesn't have health insurance, but got the treatment he needed.
W rarely hear the good stories about our health system, but it is not all bad stories or good stories.
Like everything else, nothing should stand still, and improvements needed.

Elmer Blooker

archer22 wrote: »

So everything else here is not a failure then

Health Service

Police force

Transport

All the basics of a functioning successful state.

Transport? The M50? Three tolls if I want to drive to Galway yet I've never paid a cent in Spain in all the years I've hired a car there in the summer?
C'mon!
The less said about public transport the better!

jimgoose

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Transport? The M50? Three tolls if I want to drive to Galway yet I've never paid a cent in Spain in all the years I've hired a car there in the summer?
C'mon!
The less said about public transport the better!

Driving the 30km from Nice to Antibes in the South of France will cost you €2.30 on the A8 autoroute.

VinLieger

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Transport? The M50? Three tolls if I want to drive to Galway yet I've never paid a cent in Spain in all the years I've hired a car there in the summer?
C'mon!
The less said about public transport the better!

Yeah all that means is you've never driven on a spanish motorway that was tolled of which they have several

super_furry

"Failed state"

jimgoose

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah all that means is you've never driven on a spanish motorway that was tolled of which they have several

Madrid to Toledo (90km) on the A4 autopista will cost you €2.20.

whisky_galore

Not a failed state.
Not a super duper state; where taxes actually go to pay for services, everything works as it should and everyone has a sense of civic responsibility.

Somewhere in the middle.

irelandrover

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah all that means is you've never driven on a spanish motorway that was tolled of which they have several

they seem expensive as well,
http://www.highwaymaps.eu/spain

CrabRevolution

No tolls abroad?! We easily paid €80+ worth of tolls driving one way from Paris to Bordeaux (584km) last year. Driving Dublin to Galway (208km) one way in a car costs €4.80 in tolls in comparison.

One thing the 116 disaster got me to appreciate was the resources you never really see in the country. 2 weeks ago I didn't even know we had a state run Marine Institute or Geological Survey. Responding to the disaster are the Coast Guard, RNLI, Marine Institute, Navy and Garda diving units, GSI and many other organisations. All of them trained, equipped, capable and ready for rare occasions such as this. A failed state struggles to build roads, never mind allocate huge resources to recovery operations in the manner we've seen.

fxotoole

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated. Look at all what is going on today.

Yes, it is quite clear that Ireland is worse than Iraq, Syria, or Somalia, with groups of terrorists, bandits, and insurgents seizing territory on a weekly basis :rolleyes:

Come off it, OP. Learn some bloody perspective.

Elmer Blooker

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah all that means is you've never driven on a spanish motorway that was tolled of which they have several

NEVER have I paid a cent on a Spanish Autovia which is of the same quality as the Dublin-Galway M4. The tolled roads can be avoided in Spain as there is always an alternative untolled autovia of high quality.

.... road system similar to a British motorway or an American freeway.... and is never a toll road.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autov%C3%ADa