NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

wexfordman2 · 10-03-2017 03:14PM

Jaysus lads, I would have thought from a pricing perspective mobile telcos are down to the wire, especially when you can get unlimited everything for 25 to 30 Euro a month.

40 years ago a phone call was 20 pence a minute and even today a land-line still costs 25 Euro a month before you even lift the handset.

The competion issue with the mobile operators is more down to getting enough coverage, not pricing

ED E · 10-03-2017 03:19PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Right, but isn't ARPU higher in Ireland than elsewhere? In other words, is this merely a correction?

https://etno.eu/news/etno/2015/836

Not sure we can make that comparison.

We're cheaper on the face of it than the UK which has a much higher density and this is cheaper to service and OFCOM fees are much more reasonable.

The EU28 ARPU also includes the likes of Poland and Czech Rep where labour costs are 1/5th (30GB/mo can be as low as €6 in PL).

The bit that worries me is Vodafone trending towards Three, they used to be the one holdout for premium cost premium service.

Edit: Maybe you're right. Finland has a home advantage of NSN and a history of cell vs fixed line but also the high cost of ultra low density.

damienirel · 10-03-2017 03:31PM

BandMember wrote: »

I'm getting really sick and tired of articles like this. As myself and others have said on pretty much every thread like this, even if they connected every single house in the country with 1GB FTTH in the morning, there would still be up to 18 months before you would start to see an uptake on it because

(a) the ISP's are not giving accurate information, if indeed they give any at all, of when areas will go live so people are looking elsewhere which leads to

(b) people being stuck in contracts as a result of this.

Also, (c) pricing is an issue. Most importantly though

(d) there are a lot of people in rural areas who don't actually know how to use broadband or what broadband can actually do because they've never known anything other than just above dial up speeds with very low data limits. Once they figure out what you can actually do and word of mouth spreads, you'll see a larger uptake.

(e) Don't forget though, not everyone will either want, need or be in a position to sign up any service like this. I'm thinking particularly in rural areas (which are mainly NBP areas) where there is a large elderly population, most of whom have never used nor will ever use the internet.

While huge numbers signing up straight away and finally getting proper broadband would be fantastic in an ideal world, the above are just some of the factors why it simply cannot happen. This is a project designed for the long term and the future - not for an instant quick fix. Anyone or any article like the one quoted in this post, are simply disingenious and should be challenged. However, just like every other topic in Ireland, people can just say any 'oul rubbish that comes into their head and people will accept it as a factual statement of truth, without actually bothering to think about it or check it out.

Rant over.

The articles sub title is misleading - the "poor uptake" they talk about is with the ISPs not the end customers. The fact of the matter is we are far behind in this "fibre rollout" and the NBP hasn't been tendered yet. I don't expect the current government to deliver either as elections are looming and they seem to be too busy putting out fires everywhere else that I fear that this NBP will drag on.
There is no will in government to get this done - and we will be waiting for private operators to fill in the gaps as previous posters mentioned there has been noticeable drops in revenue albeit in mobile but I would think it will have a knock on effect. Watch this space.

damienirel · 10-03-2017 03:42PM

BandMember wrote: »

I'm getting really sick and tired of articles like this.

If you thought that last one was bad....here this made me puke in my mouth...

Gonzo · 10-03-2017 03:49PM

damienirel wrote: »

If you thought that last one was bad....here this made me puke in my mouth...

lol @ that article.

Why would I ever want a stable fixed fibre to the home solution with up to 1000megs/second now and future upgrade paths, low pings, low contention and reasonable data allowance when I could instead go for Imagine LTE with a wireless signal which may provide half decent speeds, contention issues, a data allowance not fit for purpose, no access to the router, watching the clock and setting steaming services to 480/720p to save on data. Oh and the product will also be obsolete by 2020.

damienirel · 10-03-2017 04:24PM

Gonzo wrote: »

lol @ that article.

Why would I ever want a stable fixed fibre to the home solution with up to 1000megs/second now and future upgrade paths, low pings, low contention and reasonable data allowance when I could instead go for Imagine LTE with a wireless signal which may provide half decent speeds, contention issues, a data allowance not fit for purpose, no access to the router, watching the clock and setting steaming services to 480/720p to save on data. Oh and the product will also be obsolete by 2020.

Bang on!

plodder · 10-03-2017 05:23PM

Maybe this is timely; announced this week.

Germany to roll out €100bn gigabit internet network: Preparing for the Internet of Things

Germany's federal government plans to roll out a gigabit internet service across Germany by 2025, through a government and private consortium known as Netzallianz Digitales Deutschland.

The €100bn project will focus on bandwidth, security and response times, minister for transport and digital infrastructure Alexander Dobrindt said.

Developments including virtual reality and the internet of things will bring enormous data growth, and the need for more bandwidth, reliable real-time transmission and intelligent networks, Dobrindt said.

MajesticDonkey · 10-03-2017 05:29PM

plodder wrote: »

Maybe this is timely; announced this week.

Germany to roll out €100bn gigabit internet network: Preparing for the Internet of Things

I know there's obviously a massive geographical size difference, but that kinda puts our €500 million plan to shame...

damienirel · 10-03-2017 05:34PM

plodder wrote: »

Maybe this is timely; announced this week.

Germany to roll out €100bn gigabit internet network: Preparing for the Internet of Things

Is murphaph available for comment now? Sure we Irish are way ahead aren't we!! Ze Germans don't have a clue! :rolleyes:

ItHurtsWhenIP · 10-03-2017 05:38PM

damienirel wrote: »

If you thought that last one was bad....here this made me puke in my mouth...

Lots of LOLz with this one statement.

Mr Bolger said Imagine customers were guaranteed a minimum download speed of 30 Mbps, which happens to be the minimum speed set down in the NBP tender.

No asterisk to state that some users don't get that in the evenings or that any of the customers who run a little over a pretty mickey mouse limit don't have anything near it until midnight. :rolleyes:

And no comments section allowed to correct the propaganda! :eek:

Johnboy1951 · 10-03-2017 05:40PM

ItHurtsWhenIP wrote: »

Lots of LOLz with this one statement.

No asterisk to state that some users don't get that in the evenings or that any of the customers who run a little over a pretty mickey mouse limit don't have anything near it until midnight. :rolleyes:

And no comments section allowed to correct the propaganda! :eek:

..... and no mention of all those who cannot avail of this service even though they are close to others who can .....

damienirel · 10-03-2017 05:48PM

What is the difference between imagine and 4g on lets say 3? Both are lte.

oscarBravo · 10-03-2017 06:30PM

damienirel wrote: »

What is the difference between imagine and 4g on lets say 3? Both are lte.

It's fundamentally the same technology, but in theory the fixed outdoor installation allows for higher throughput and better contention management. They also operate in different frequency bands, so have different propagation characteristics, spectrum reusability, all that.

rob808 · 10-03-2017 07:26PM

The problem with Imagine LTE it not future proof and the download caps are not great with only 20Gb a day.

ED E · 10-03-2017 07:34PM

Imagine is expensive Midband really (Lower peak tput than traditional CAT3 FDD cells), thats why its not in the NBP so not really even worth discussing.

Gonzo · 15-03-2017 11:56PM

I dunno if this has already been posted but just spotted this, Vodafone here have tested 4g mobile at 1000meg speeds and are to launch a far faster 4g service here later.

Won't make much difference to most people as wireless/mobile internet will always have tight data caps.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/1gbps_broadband_vodafone

KOR101 · 16-03-2017 12:05PM

Gonzo wrote: »

Won't make much difference to most people as wireless/mobile internet will always have tight data caps.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/1gbps_broadband_vodafone

4g is a game changer for many in rural Ireland, and the rollout in those areas is moving extremely fast. I'm not saying it's a long term substitute for fibre, but I'm personally more hopeful about mobile than the NBP if you're talking about the next couple of years.

The Cush · 25-03-2017 09:36AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/up-to-300-000-homes-to-be-removed-from-broadband-plan-1.3023872

Department to significantly reduce size of intervention area after agreement with Eir

The number of homes and businesses covered by the National Broadband Plan (NBP) is to be reduced by up to 300,000 following an agreement between the Department of Communications and the State’s largest telecoms group, Eir.

Johnboy1951 · 25-03-2017 10:47AM

So eir finally signed the required 'commitment contract'.
About time!

Those on blue (now yellow) lines had best hope that their area gets connected prior to the awarding of contracts.

I fear that with contracts awarded (should eir get one or two) that the 'blue line' areas will be treated just like any other area, which could delay some of those 'blue line' areas significantly, should other areas get preference.

That could see a reversal of priorities for some of those 'blue line' areas, unless as part of the 'commitment contract', eir have indicated that the blue lines will be done first.

rob808 · 25-03-2017 11:37AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So eir finally signed the required 'commitment contract'.
About time!

Those on blue (now yellow) lines had best hope that their area gets connected prior to the awarding of contracts.

I fear that with contracts awarded (should eir get one or two) that the 'blue line' areas will be treated just like any other area, which could delay some of those 'blue line' areas significantly, should other areas get preference.

That could see a reversal of priorities for some of those 'blue line' areas, unless as part of the 'commitment contract', eir have indicated that the blue lines will be done first.

The blue would still get done but once NBP does start and Eir did win one of the contract they would have to do both at same time the government and EU would want results when NBP starts.

Johnboy1951 · 25-03-2017 12:05PM

rob808 wrote: »

The blue would still get done but once NBP does start and Eir did win one of the contract they would have to do both at same time the government and EU would want results when NBP starts.

I didn't imply the blue lines would not get done, only that at present they are the highest priority for eir, but if eir win a contract then I fear that priority will disappear as will the blue lines in the contracted region.
If eir win only one of the contracts then I would expect that the blue lines in the non-contracted areas would be prioritised which in turn would have an effect on the contracted area.

It really does seem that the best for consumers would be for eir to win all or none.

Gonzo · 25-03-2017 12:18PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I didn't imply the blue lines would not get done, only that at present they are the highest priority for eir, but if eir win a contract then I fear that priority will disappear as will the blue lines in the contracted region.
If eir win only one of the contracts then I would expect that the blue lines in the non-contracted areas would be prioritised which in turn would have an effect on the contracted area.

It really does seem that the best for consumers would be for eir to win all or none.

I would agree with this, Eir have been known to remove priority's in the past such as the 66 town scheme which was all action 2 years ago is now on its last legs for now. All these towns will be done but probably on the back burner for now.

Likewise I expect if Eir does win all or part of the NBP, they may delay some of the 2018 yellow lined areas if they are not as important as some of the gaps elsewhere that could be filled in.

My guess is that by the time the NBP gets going Eir will be well past 100,000 blue/yellow lines premises passed. Most of the current Spring/Summer and Autumn projected dates would be finished before this even starts.

ACLFC7 · 25-03-2017 01:21PM

The final intervention map should be published early next month

(From the article: "Minister for Communications Denis Naughten is now expected to seek Cabinet approval for the proposed adjustment before apprising the three shortlisted bidders – Eir, Siro and Enet – of the final intervention map early next month.")

rob808 · 25-03-2017 01:53PM

Gonzo wrote: »

I would agree with this, Eir have been known to remove priority's in the past such as the 66 town scheme which was all action 2 years ago is now on its last legs for now. All these towns will be done but probably on the back burner for now.

Likewise I expect if Eir does win all or part of the NBP, they may delay some of the 2018 yellow lined areas if they are not as important as some of the gaps elsewhere that could be filled in.

My guess is that by the time the NBP gets going Eir will be well past 100,000 blue/yellow lines premises passed. Most of the current Spring/Summer and Autumn projected dates would be finished before this even starts.

I hope they can and area don't start slipping again don't want to see winter/spring 2018 for my area.Im looking forward to see the new intervention update map.I hope they don't listen to imagine because I say they be next to ask.

Gonzo · 25-03-2017 02:05PM

rob808 wrote: »

I hope they can and area don't start slipping again don't want to see winter/spring 2018 for my area.Im looking forward to see the new intervention update map.I hope they don't listen to imagine because I say they be next to ask.

doubt they will listen to Imagine, there service will be obsolete in 3 years time, will be another wimax and Imagine will have to slowly rollout another new wireless 5G service beyond 2020, some areas on 4g LTE could end up with a suspended service and no alternative similar to some ex wimax customers who at the minute are left with nothing.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 25-03-2017 03:36PM

Wow. Where does this leave the other two? Will it even make economic sense for them to continue in the bidding process?

Johnboy1951 · 25-03-2017 03:53PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Wow. Where does this leave the other two? Will it even make economic sense for them to continue in the bidding process?

Why not?
It is to be subsidised and only they can say by how much.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 25-03-2017 04:09PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why not?
It is to be subsidised and only they can say by how much.

Say for a given intervention area Siro had prepared a bid assuming X number of premises. That is now X - 150000 (assuming equal split of 300000). However they may still have to deploy similar amounts of fibre and man hours to reach the lesser number of premises. I don't expect the government subsidy to make up for the loss of these premises.

Johnboy1951 · 25-03-2017 04:29PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Say for a given intervention area Siro had prepared a bid assuming X number of premises. That is now X - 150000 (assuming equal split of 300000). However they may still have to deploy similar amounts of fibre and man hours to reach the lesser number of premises. I don't expect the government subsidy to make up for the loss of these premises.

Whether or not the Gov subsidy will be sufficient is hardly of concern to a bidder.
All is required of them is to make an offer that is viable for them, based on the criteria laid out by the gov.
It is up to the bidder to ensure their bid makes economic sense to them.

Will it even make economic sense for them to continue in the bidding process?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 25-03-2017 04:32PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Whether or not the Gov subsidy will be sufficient is hardly of concern to a bidder.
All is required of them is to make an offer that is viable for them, based on the criteria laid out by the gov.
It is up to the bidder to ensure their bid makes economic sense to them.

I'm saying it may now not be viable for Siro and enet to continue in the process. Eir drew their blue line map for a specific reason and it looks like their masterstroke has paid off.

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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