RIP Martin McGuinness

Wheeliebin30 · 22-03-2017 04:56PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I couldn't give a damn if Arlene Frosty goes and MMcG's family probably couldn't care less either. Let her stay away.

This.

It isn't about her. Stop giving her so much attention.

If she goes she goes if she doesn't who cares.

Alf Stewart. · 22-03-2017 05:05PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

This.

It isn't about her. Stop giving her so much attention.

If she goes she goes if she doesn't who cares.

It's a sticky wicket tbh, her not attending would be akin to a Taoiseach not attending a Tainsate's (past or present) funeral here.

It's on a professional level she should be attending, on a personal level, I'm sure there's few (least off all the McGuinness family) will give a dam whether or not she attends.

My gut feeling is she will go, but no loss if she doesn't.

I think one thing would have been certain though had the scenario been reversed, McGuinness would have attended hers.

osarusan · 22-03-2017 05:15PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

If she goes she goes if she doesn't who cares.

Lets not kid ourselves that her absence wouldn't be ammunition for her critics.

She has to go, for professional reasons. Politics has plenty of moments where you do stuff meet people you would rather not - this is one of them.

For personal reasons, given the IRA shot and wounded her father, and also bombed her school bus (while she was on it) I can see why it isn't an appealing prospect for her.

steddyeddy · 22-03-2017 05:16PM

timthumbni wrote: »

The mail in the U.K. Has a 6 page spread on mcguinness today. Rightly highlights a lot of the shameful antics he was involved in directly and supported. As I said earlier no one should have to be thanked just because they decided that bombing and shooting people wasn't going anywhere.

They had a great article on the Loch Ness Monster a while back. You also can't beat their celebrity fashion articles.

Anyway I better deal with your point. It may be beyond the scope of Mail reader but here goes. McGuinness isn't being remembered because he stopped using violence. He is being remembered because he convinced the majority of republicans to drop violence in favor of the ballot.

In the words of Trimble recently "you reached out to the unionist community in a way many of them didn't reach out to you". In other words he tried to bridge communities in Northern Ireland and made the Island of Ireland a better place for everyone.

steddyeddy · 22-03-2017 05:21PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Well as I said this was in the mail , one of the most read newspapers and news websites in the U.K.

As a scientist I have to write press releases for the general public. I'm told that they should be accessible to everyone. The guideline they give me is genuinely "write it so a 9 year old or Daily Mail reader will understand it".

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 05:23PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

As a scientist I have to write press releases for the general public. I'm told that they should be accessible to everyone. The guideline they give me is genuinely "write it so a 9 year old or Daily Mail reader will understand it".

Gosh, I didn't know you had such a hard job. I hope they pay you well!

nacho libre · 22-03-2017 05:24PM

I just found out he liked Cricket. How can anyone like this awful sport?
But seriously Jonathan Powell did an interesting piece about him on Newsnight.

Blair and George Mitchell had interesting insights into his character also.

steddyeddy · 22-03-2017 05:24PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gosh, I didn't know you had such a hard job. I hope they pay you well!

Not really man but I survive.

lawred2 · 22-03-2017 06:11PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

how original

what is?

The Daily Fail

Galwayguy35 · 22-03-2017 06:13PM

I wonder will the Daily Mail describe the soldiers who shot dead the unarmed people in Derry in the same way when they eventually die?

I'll bet the house they won't.

"All Irish are backward" was one lovely comment from our neighbours across the water.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 06:17PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I wonder will the Daily Mail describe the soldiers who shot dead the unarmed people in Derry in the same way when they eventually die?

I'll bet the house they won't.

"All Irish are backward" was one lovely comment from our neighbours across the water.

Indeed, if they need something to blame for the implosion of the kingdom they need look no further than decades of a Daily Mail and other tabloids diet.

steddyeddy · 22-03-2017 06:27PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I wonder will the Daily Mail describe the soldiers who shot dead the unarmed people in Derry in the same way when they eventually die?

I'll bet the house they won't.

"All Irish are backward" was one lovely comment from our neighbours across the water.

Says a Daily Mail reader.

LordSutch · 22-03-2017 06:32PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I couldn't give a damn if Arlene Frosty goes and MMcG's family probably couldn't care less either. Let her stay away.

Not sure Arlene would want to go to his funeral after what her family (& her school) went through at the hands of the PIRA. On the other hand she may well attend as a mark of respect for the politician she grew to know in recent years at the Assembly.

Junkyard Tom · 22-03-2017 06:49PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Not sure Arlene would want to go to his funeral after what her family (& her school) went through at the hands of the PIRA.

Not sure the people of the Bogside would want her there considering what they were put through by people like those in Arlene's family/community who joined the UDR/RUC and goodness knows what else.

See how that works?

DrWu · 22-03-2017 07:34PM

I understand that some people want to think the best of MMG and that's fair enough. But what did he give up? The victims on all sides had a very tough pill to swallow to pave the way for peace. But what did MMG give up? You could argue that he did rather well out of the whole thing and came out of it looking pretty good. He never had the hard task of giving up any hard secrets before he died, the locations of bodies, what happened to Hegarty, McConville, the disappeared etc. A final act of theft from the victims of IRA violence before he scuttled off the stage.

LordSutch · 22-03-2017 07:40PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Not sure the people of the Bogside would want her there considering what they were put through by people like those in Arlene's family/community who joined the UDR/RUC and goodness knows what else.

See how that works?

Try telling Arlene Foster how it works > http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-relives-horror-of-fathers-shooting-by-ira-and-tells-how-bus-blast-could-have-killed-her-34297350.html

But I also said

LordSutch wrote: »

On the other hand she may well attend as a mark of respect for the politician she grew to know in recent years at the Assembly.

But you chose not to comment on that.

Now I see how you work.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 07:45PM

DrWu wrote: »

I understand that some people want to think the best of MMG and that's fair enough. But what did he give up? The victims on all sides had a very tough pill to swallow to pave the way for peace. But what did MMG give up? You could argue that he did rather well out of the whole thing and came out of it looking pretty good. He never had the hard task of giving up any hard secrets before he died, the locations of bodies, what happened to Hegarty, McConville, the disappeared etc. A final act of theft from the victims of IRA violence before he scuttled off the stage.

Most of the bodies have been located, the ICLVR have said they are satisfied that the IRA have helped as best they could in that process. We know why jean McConville died.
The matter of 'who' did the above has been dealt with too in an honest albeit frank way.
There will be no information like that handed over unless there is a full Truth Process with all the parties to the conflict/war taking part.

A one-sided process would be dramatically destabilising.

Junkyard Tom · 22-03-2017 07:55PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Now I see how you work.

I think the readers of the thread see how you work. Yesterday I called you out on ignoring the early experiences that shaped MMcG.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The first half of his life for you and your ilk deliberately ignores the first 'quarter'. A young boy ... witnessing the RUC beating his neighbours to death. Listening to stories of the B-Specials on the way to massacre the people of the Bogside for daring to resist RUC brutality.

His pals' Dads dragged out of their beds at night by the 'security forces'. Protestors being mass-murdered by a gang of killer Paras.. .

Today it's 'poor wee Arlene' and more excuses from you.

Congratulations, you've just sunk the HMS Lordsutch.... again.

LordSutch · 22-03-2017 08:17PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think the readers of the thread see how you work.
Yesterday I called you out on ignoring the early experiences that shaped MMcG.

If you read my posts they're all very balanced & respectful on the death of Martin McGuinness. In this thread & (the thread I started in Politics Cafe) I reference his terrorist past while acknowledging the political & peaceful chapter he embarked on in the 2nd half of his life.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Today it's 'poor wee Arlene' and more excuses from you.

Not sure there's any 'poor wee Arlene' about her story.
It sounds quite horriffic to me, same with Norman Tebbit.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Congratulations, you've just sunk the HMS Lordsutch.... again.

Don't know what that means^

I do understand that you are an IRA supporter, so shouldn't you be proud of the 1st half of his life?

Or maybe its because I mentioned the 1st half of his life?

I'm not gloating on his death, Im not celebrating either

steddyeddy · 22-03-2017 08:26PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think the readers of the thread see how you work. Yesterday I called you out on ignoring the early experiences that shaped MMcG.

Today it's 'poor wee Arlene' and more excuses from you.

Congratulations, you've just sunk the HMS Lordsutch.... again.

The same poster who talks about admiring security forces who colluded with terrorists. Hard to take seriously.

LordSutch · 22-03-2017 08:35PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The same poster who talks about admiring security forces who colluded with terrorists. Hard to take seriously.

Trying to be respectful in this RIP thread, so I've mentioned his IRA past, and I've also mentioned & welcomed (in a positive light) his political life, post the Provo's . . .

What more do you want?

steddyeddy · 22-03-2017 08:43PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Trying to be respectful in this RIP thread, so I've mentioned his IRA past, and I've also mentioned & welcomed (in a positive light) his political life, post the Provo's . . .

What more do you want?

OK fair enough.

Junkyard Tom · 22-03-2017 08:59PM

LordSutch wrote: »

I reference his terrorist past while

While purposefully ignoring, and in fact admiring, the terrorist state that surrounded him.

I do understand that you are an IRA supporter

I was a child for the vast majority of the troubles so wasn't smuggling guns and hiding explosives between episodes of the A-Team and Airwolf. The only weapons I ever saw in my life was on an RUC man's hip or slung around a BA soldier's shoulder.

so shouldn't you be proud of the 1st half of his life?

I wouldn't blame young people like MMcG for joining the PIRA. I respect those who fought gun battles against the UVF/BA to keep them out of their communities in the early part of the troubles.

I have an issue with the direction the PIRA took and consider massacres like Kingsmill and Enniskillen as brutal atrocities, if not war crimes. However, I also understand that the PIRA was a symptom of the troubles not the cause.

steddyeddy wrote: »

The same poster who talks about admiring security forces who colluded with terrorists. Hard to take seriously.

Indeed, when I respond to people like that it's more because I'm cognisant of the readers of the thread and in respect of the general discussion.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 09:52PM

Berserker wrote: »

Special mention needs to go to Jim Allister today. His speech in the NI assembly regarding McGuinness was outstanding. Great to see that there are people out there with the guts to speak the truth. The line below is so powerful and truthful.

Maith an buachaill Jim, he must have been in the toilet spewing more bile when McGuinness did at least two of the things in that list.

eoinzy2000 · 22-03-2017 09:53PM

Berserker wrote: »

Special mention needs to go to Jim Allister today. His speech in the NI assembly regarding McGuinness was outstanding. Great to see that there are people out there with the guts to speak the truth. The line below is so powerful and truthful.

Its a pity that people, especially Irish people, whom he fought in a war to protect, show no respect for the sacrifices he made and hard war decision he made to protect his fellow Irish from the oppression his people had been subjected to, occupation, fear of speaking their own language and being jailed, fear of practicing their beliefs... the list goes on and on. The Irish people who call the man a murderer are the same people that if confronted with the horror imposed on the people of Derry, wouldve upped sticks and ran leaving their fellow men behind to be slain. The man forged a peace through BOTH armed struggle AND politics. RIP

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 10:11PM

Bertserker has clearly thought better of his post.

eoinzy2000 · 22-03-2017 10:28PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bertserker has clearly thought better of his post.

Berserker has just posted, word for word, on another MMcG thread. Pure trolling.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2017 10:32PM

eoinzy2000 wrote: »

Berserker has just posted, word for word, on another MMcG thread. Pure trolling.

A bit like Jim Allister. Seems to me that is all he has to offer as a politician - trolling.

eoinzy2000 · 22-03-2017 10:36PM

True, as in Tibbet too. It is an exercise in ego imo and a desire to feel relevant. A more honourable thing would be to keep quiet instead of jumping at the first tabloid microphone that you can find

Alf Stewart. · 22-03-2017 11:21PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A bit like Jim Allister. Seems to me that is all he has to offer as a politician - trolling.

Sammy Morrison tweeted this earlier.

RIP Martin McGuinness

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