Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

TCDStudent1 · 19-03-2017 12:38AM

Bonniedog wrote: »

That is a sad tale.

There is a fair bit of nastiness between current players from the top teams. I doubt there be too many of them having the crack in 40 years time like Paddy Cullen and Mikey Sheehy.

I know one Dub player who retired a few years ago and he absolutely hates some of his opponents. From one county in particular...

Kind of sad really.

Ooh which county?!

Bonniedog · 19-03-2017 12:39AM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Ooh which county?!

Begins with an M

Can't be more specific than that. Other than its not Meath or Monaghan .....

LeoB · 19-03-2017 12:51AM

Bambi wrote: »

Horan thinks that was a great game, shows how poor football is these days.

Must be a Mayo thing. Billy Joe Padden was awful on T.V. and further explains why Mayo with people like him and Horan cant win an All-ireland. Unless it was 100% clearcut he it was a "soft" free. McHugh when fouled he said they wrapped him up well!! When McMahon was pushed over the end line it was a great tackle...

Felt the referee ruined the game. Some of the cards were very harsh in the first half and yet he let a few tackles go in the second half, just totally ignored some of the sly digs.

Thought Kerry overdone the physical stuff. Some of their tackling was fierce for first 45-50 minutes. As someone said it was a throw back to the old Kerry way of battering teams. That said I think they are going to be a serious challenge for anyone come July and August. They look a better team than over the last 2 years.

Great to see Paul Flynn and Cian O'Sullivan back. Great boost for the squad and good timing with Roscommon next week I think they should both start and get the game time they need.. Few highlights and positives, Cluxtons save was very good from Geaney in 2nd half, Conor McHughs points. Lowndes, Mick Fitz and Daly superb. Rock frees also top drawer.

seligehgit · 19-03-2017 09:56AM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Begins with an M

Can't be more specific than that. Other than its not Meath or Monaghan .....

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't believe there is a greater degree of nastiness in Dublin Mayo clashes than any of the other games?Familiarity does breed contempt and as it is so sadly and frustratingly one sided from my point of view I'm sure it may feed into the mindsets of the respective players in different ways.

God be the days when the Meath jersey was the apparent red rag to a bull in terms of opponents.:)

I only saw the first half of the game last night,shall watch the remainder of same but it was a very mean spirited contest with an awful lot of off the ball stuff.

It's fine and well saying that the referee should send off four or five lads per game and they'll get the message but it'll ruin the games as a spectacle.But it would likely work in the very long run.However there is a certain responsibility on the players/management to as far as possible play within the spirit of the rules.There is still room for teams to win games the right way.Gaelic football is not doomed but is in danger of driving away those less than diehard GAA supporters.

TCDStudent1 · 19-03-2017 10:20AM

LeoB wrote: »

Must be a Mayo thing. Billy Joe Padden was awful on T.V. and further explains why Mayo with people like him and Horan cant win an All-ireland. Unless it was 100% clearcut he it was a "soft" free. McHugh when fouled he said they wrapped him up well!! When McMahon was pushed over the end line it was a great tackle...

Felt the referee ruined the game. Some of the cards were very harsh in the first half and yet he let a few tackles go in the second half, just totally ignored some of the sly digs.

Thought Kerry overdone the physical stuff. Some of their tackling was fierce for first 45-50 minutes. As someone said it was a throw back to the old Kerry way of battering teams. That said I think they are going to be a serious challenge for anyone come July and August. They look a better team than over the last 2 years.

Great to see Paul Flynn and Cian O'Sullivan back. Great boost for the squad and good timing with Roscommon next week I think they should both start and get the game time they need.. Few highlights and positives, Cluxtons save was very good from Geaney in 2nd half, Conor McHughs points. Lowndes, Mick Fitz and Daly superb. Rock frees also top drawer.

I listened to it on the radio. Marty Morrissey was proclaiming it to be a great game, championship in March is what he said at one point. I only saw the first half on TV later but I could not believe how scrappy and stop / start the game was compared to what he portrayed on the radio.

Bonniedog · 19-03-2017 11:02AM

I think you are right seligehgit. It is the fact that they play so often and that while matches have been close, Dublin have shaded most of the last ten or so games.

There is also a personal factor. Chap I was referring to said that he knows county players from around the country and is friendly with them. Played with a fair few of them in college etc. Players also mingle after games. CP encourages this by opening bar to them where they are all together. Now, that I imagine must be uncomfortable for a losing team. I certainly wouldn't do it but some do and while they are not hugging and dancing it does relieve tensions. Apparently Mayo and Dubs do not do this.

On other hand he was saying that while James Horan was a bit of a bete noir for Dublin when Horan was manager that Horan is a really sound chap in his new capacity. Indeed while some here slag him I would rate him as one of the best pundits. Probably better on radio than TV.

gormdubhgorm · 19-03-2017 11:13AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But what exactly is "playing the game in the right spirit"?.

In order for that sort of bolloxology to work it requires player and team to have the exact same set of morals and view of what the right spirit is.As soon as anyone breaks the code then the other teams/players "playing the game in the right spirit" lose out by being too honest.

You play the game right to the limit of what the ref allows.

Exactly back in the days when country people used to snigger at all the Dubs hype and not getting the results, Dublin used to get out fought, and out thought time and time again.

Meanwhile the Ulster counties, and the rest used to get the big wins.

This Dublin team has lots of skill, but also has plenty of fellas who don't mind the physical stuff. Dublin cannot be intimidated and bullied like they used to.
I am delighted with that.

Sometimes players might go over the line, for example O'Gara, but is it the refs job to stop that and set the tone.

gormdubhgorm · 19-03-2017 11:22AM

seligehgit wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't believe there is a greater degree of nastiness in Dublin Mayo clashes than any of the other games?

I don't think there is, I think the players have a healthy respect for each other.
It is not like they were lumping the heads off each other like Cork and Meath back in the 80s.

Sure, after the all-Ireland final weren't #thingsleedid and Dermo hugging at the end of the game?

Stoner · 19-03-2017 01:00PM

gormdubhgorm wrote:

I don't think there is, I think the players have a healthy respect for each other. It is not like they were lumping the heads off each other like Cork and Meath back in the 80s.

I'm unaware of any thing like this either.

The only one I heard of in the GAA that lasted a long time before it was resolved was Cork and Meath and that's all sorted now I hear.

Sure Dublin and Mayo hardly met, the history imo is largely recent

Bonniedog · 19-03-2017 01:04PM

Just going by what recently retired player told me.

they may not have a long historical association but Dublin and Mayo have been close rivals for last ten years and there's no denying there is a bit of frisson there!

gormdubhgorm · 19-03-2017 01:25PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Just going by what recently retired player told me.

they may not have a long historical association but Dublin and Mayo have been close rivals for last ten years and there's no denying there is a bit of frisson there!

I am trying to guess who the player is 'recently retired' means he played in the 06 game?

Hang on..... Ger Brennan, Alan Brogan, David Henry, Ciaran Whelan.

Ger Brennan and Whelo are the prime suspects, but they could handle themselves, so it would be more give then take from them.

But Alan Brogan must have got the worst treatment from his markers as he was the dangerman.

Alan Brogan is my guess!
He just wanted to play football and has a holy communion haircut.
Those nasty Mayo bullies would target him.

Bonniedog · 19-03-2017 01:36PM

You would make a good interrogator gorm!

You did name the chap, but he is not Alan Brogan!

Coincidentally I will be bringing dogs over to watch Plunketts juniors this afternoon. If I see AB I shall ask him what he thought of Mayo :-)

19-03-2017 01:45PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am trying to guess who the player is 'recently retired' means he played in the 06 game?

Hang on..... Ger Brennan, Alan Brogan, David Henry, Ciaran Whelan.

Ger Brennan and Whelo are the prime suspects, but they could handle themselves, so it would be more give then take from them.

But Alan Brogan must have got the worst treatment from his markers as he was the dangerman.

Alan Brogan is my guess!
He just wanted to play football and has a holy communion haircut.
Those nasty Mayo bullies would target him.

Alan Brogan has alot of family still here so doubt its him. Ciaran Whelan i'd guess, his analysis certainly would point to that and he lost his cool in a few Mayo games with the result going against him.

He did a personal hit job on the Mayo team on the Sunday game last year or the year before stating who the ref should send off in the next game. It was unusual for what is supposed to be balance punditry, certainly reeked of bitterness. He probably looks at current Dublin success and thinks that should of been him.

Bonniedog · 19-03-2017 01:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Alan Brogan has alot of family still here so doubt its him. Ciaran Whelan i'd guess, his analysis certainly would point to that.

I'm going to take the 5th now

Dyr · 19-03-2017 01:50PM

Whelan doesn't like anyone in fairness to him

corny · 19-03-2017 08:38PM

Well we know he definitely doesn't like Ronan McGarrity anyway.

Bonniedog · 19-03-2017 08:42PM

That was an optical illusion :-)

MayoAreMagic · 20-03-2017 11:30AM

I don't think it would be Whelan, he never really had much dealing with mayo bar one game. True he lost in 06, but in fairness, if a guy disliked an entire county because they beat him in one game, it says more about the guy rather than anyone else and I don't think that is his style.. It is far more likely to be Brennan, who would have a connection to the current setup, more interaction with mayo, and the poster seems to be talking in the present tense to some degree.

However, I don't really get why they would have a personal thing against the mayo guys. I find that kind of strange really. The Mayo team want to win, the same as the Dublin team do. Why is that a problem? They aren't there to have a friendly chat with each other. Was he being nice as pie to the Kerry lads in 2011 when they were chasing a first AI in 16 years? I seriously doubt it was high up his priorities.
I don't really get why anyone from the current setup would have issue to dislike them - like what expectation are they not fulfilling for them? They are in competition with each other at the end of the day. The only place they might have had some interactions is the international rules, but the fact that so many dubs refused to play in it over the last few years would mean that it is unlikely. Has he considered that maybe this refusal rubbed people up the wrong way?

To my mind it is foolish. The Kerry lads will turn games into a royal rumble, attack your gk in every game, but because they play the cute Kerry hoor afterwards and pretend to be your mate, they are alright. At least the Mayo lads are honest about it.

It is an interesting point though, Id be curious as to hear the reasons for it.

Stoner · 20-03-2017 11:44AM

The Kerry lads will play the game whatever way you want to, just like Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone Donegal, Cavan. So most of division 1 really.

That's about it. No need to develop this further I'm sure that's not the plan though

MayoAreMagic · 20-03-2017 11:59AM

Stoner wrote: »

The Kerry lads will play the game whatever way you want to, just like Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone Donegal, Cavan. So most of division 1 really.

That's about it. No need to develop this further I'm sure that's not the plan though

Well frankly, no they wont. They will play it whatever way they think they need to, to win the game, and they don't really give a toss about their opponent, as much as they will talk them up and play nice beforehand. That isn't a criticism either and I have no issue with it, Im just stating the reality of how they approach it.

Re developing the point further, Ive no real interest in the whole naming names side of it, but I think the deterioration of relations between Mayo and Dublin is something worth exploring a bit. It is a shame things have gone that way, I believe. But it will never improve when efforts to flesh it out are hushed. My message would be, walk a mile in the other's shoes before judging them. Id point to the earlier assertion that Horan was a bête noir for Dublin, yet now they see he is a very sound and honest guy as a good starting point. Mayo just want to win, what is wrong with that?

Bonniedog · 20-03-2017 12:51PM

My final word on this as we - well me really! - are in danger of sounding like old women gossiping at the shops!

Anyway, last word is that it seemed to be a more personal thing with chap I referred to more than anything that happened on the pitch.

As Mayo Are Magic says, they are not there to be bestest friends, but the relationship between Dublin and Mayo appears to be unusually hostile and distant. Chap I am talking about would enjoy the post match crack and even having a pint with fellas he's played against in club or county. That doesn't happen between Dublin and Mayo.

Hopefully, when they have all hung their boots up they will get together and have that pint.

As for my reference to Horan, yeah he was seen in a bad light especially over the McQuillan stuff, but he is obviously an extremely knowegable chap and comes across as a decent man too. So yes, it does come down to what people will do to try and win at the time. Once that doesn't become a lingering dislike then it is okay. Horan is certainly no longer disliked, that is for sure.

MayoAreMagic · 20-03-2017 01:37PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

My final word on this as we - well me really! - are in danger of sounding like old women gossiping at the shops!

Anyway, last word is that it seemed to be a more personal thing with chap I referred to more than anything that happened on the pitch.

As Mayo Are Magic says, they are not there to be bestest friends, but the relationship between Dublin and Mayo appears to be unusually hostile and distant. Chap I am talking about would enjoy the post match crack and even having a pint with fellas he's played against in club or county. That doesn't happen between Dublin and Mayo.

Hopefully, when they have all hung their boots up they will get together and have that pint.

Well look, from a mayo perspective anyway, Id say that guys might find it hard to go and have a pint with McMahon for example, because his actions go beyond the remit of what is acceptable in my view. If he was in another sport, I have no doubt that he would have a raft of lengthy bans to his name. Similarly, the way the dubs in the media go after lee keegan every year to such an extent might be something they take issue with, particularly when he is getting voted the POTY by his peers at the same time. Or how about the type of personalised abuse AOS or COC have to take pretty much all the time from dub fans? Maybe that kind of stuff leaves them cold? Im not trying to excuse anything or make one side the victim, but there is two sides to things. Those same mayo players get a tough time of it in the media, yet they match that Dublin team year after year with a 10th of their population, resources etc, often only losing out by a point or even a bad ref call. They are only human at the end of the day. You have to ask how would we react in the same circumstances?

Bonniedog wrote: »

As for my reference to Horan, yeah he was seen in a bad light especially over the McQuillan stuff, but he is obviously an extremely knowegable chap and comes across as a decent man too. So yes, it does come down to what people will do to try and win at the time. Once that doesn't become a lingering dislike then it is okay. Horan is certainly no longer disliked, that is for sure.

But again, all he did was tell the truth on the McQuillan front. It isn't reasonable to dislike someone for simply telling the truth is it? In reality, McQuillan was foolish to go reffing the games and if the thing was run properly he'd have been dropped from the game. From the outside looking in, it appeared that the dubs just didnt like being beaten and horan became their fall guy, despite him just telling the truth. But if mcquillan had reffed mayo games, wouldn't you want Gilroy or Gavin to make that known beforehand? Id have no issue if they had.

Bonniedog · 20-03-2017 01:46PM

All the top counties use inter county refs to do challenge games, including your own.

Fair play to James. he certainly psyched poor McQuilllan out in 2012 :-)

DoctaDee · 20-03-2017 01:49PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

All the top counties use inter county refs to do challenge games, including your own.

Fair play to James. he certainly psyched poor McQuilllan out in 2012 :-)

McEneaney brought his whistle to a challenge game against Armagh up in St. Clares under Gilroy and never used it

Bonniedog · 20-03-2017 01:52PM

DoctaDee wrote: »

McEneaney brought his whistle to a challenge game against Armagh up in St. Clares under Gilroy and never used it

Maybe Mayo don't have refs for their challenge games. But then who would reward them for diving

MayoAreMagic · 20-03-2017 01:53PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

All the top counties use inter county refs to do challenge games, including your own.

Fair play to James. he certainly psyched poor McQuilllan out in 2012 :-)

Do you think he did? I don't really recall McQuillan getting a whole lot wrong in the actual game. Mayo pulled Dublin down a bit in the second half but they got their frees for it.

Also, challenge games aren't A V B training matches. Obviously if a guy is attending trainings of one team discussing his interpretation of the tackle with them, they are going to have an advantage over their opponent if that ref is taking their actual games. If he isn't doing that with every county then he shouldn't be doing it at all.

DoctaDee · 20-03-2017 01:55PM

Challenge games take on a life of their own .. I've seen some loose interpretations of the rules in my time !

Dyr · 20-03-2017 02:11PM

DoctaDee wrote: »

Challenge games take on a life of their own .. I've seen some loose interpretations of the rules in my time !

Can't remember if it was Dalys first training session or challenge game with the hurlers but he said it was hard and heavy and he he was roaring at lads to "get up to f**k there'll be no free's given now"

Bonniedog · 20-03-2017 02:24PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Do you think he did? I don't really recall McQuillan getting a whole lot wrong in the actual game. Mayo pulled Dublin down a bit in the second half but they got their frees for it.

Also, challenge games aren't A V B training matches. Obviously if a guy is attending trainings of one team discussing his interpretation of the tackle with them, they are going to have an advantage over their opponent if that ref is taking their actual games. If he isn't doing that with every county then he shouldn't be doing it at all.

Well we all see things through our own county tinted lenses! But yes I thought he erred on Mayo's side in last 20 minutes. Then again, he might have sent Ger off and given free in to Kerry in 2011. Swings and roundabouts...

MayoAreMagic · 20-03-2017 03:27PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well we all see things through our own county tinted lenses! But yes I thought he erred on Mayo's side in last 20 minutes. Then again, he might have sent Ger off and given free in to Kerry in 2011. Swings and roundabouts...

Can you give any specific examples though?

Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

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