Louise O Neill on rape culture.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 01:31AM

ivytwine wrote: »

RCC got its funding cut by 70% last year, to answer one of your questions. Rape happens, most people do not falsely accuse. My beef with "rape culture" is that it doesn't address the issue in any practical manner.

False accusation of rape are myths we are told by the same people who tells us we have a rape culture the likes of Louise o neill

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 01:38AM

ivytwine wrote: »

RCC got its funding cut by 70% last year, to answer one of your questions. Rape happens, most people do not falsely accuse. My beef with "rape culture" is that it doesn't address the issue in any practical manner.

Louise o Neill says we have rape culture in Ireland and funding gets cut 70%per cent

what is louise o neill and her rape culture in Ireland saying about this?

ivytwine · 11-03-2017 01:42AM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

False accusation of rape are myths we are told by the same people who tells us we have a rape culture the likes of Louise o neill

What?

I don't understand. I'm not saying they don't happen, but they don't happen frequently tbh.
Conviction rates for rape for Ireland is among the lowest in Europe at 7%, I found after a swift google. We definitely have a serious judicial problem with all sentencing for violent crime in this country. And that's where I feel energy could be better directed. But don't fret. Men aren't being locked up in some Salem type witch hunt just yet.

mzungu · 11-03-2017 01:42AM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

False accusation of rape are myths we are told by the same people who tells us we have a rape culture the likes of Louise o neill

False accusations would be quite rare.

ivytwine · 11-03-2017 01:45AM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Louise o Neill says we have rape culture in Ireland and funding gets cut 70%per cent what is louise o neill and her rape culture in Ireland saying about this?

Well that's one of my issues with this entire debate, important points like this get lost by people who should be calling attention to it. All of this info has been reported in the national news, it was after the RCC refused to hand over details of its clients over to Tusla. But it's not as glamorous as handwringing that every man you pass may rape you I guess.

Widdershins · 11-03-2017 02:07AM

ivytwine wrote: »

it was after the RCC refused to hand over details of its clients over to Tusla.

What! :mad:

Good on the Rcc but why did TUSLA want the information?

ivytwine · 11-03-2017 02:12AM

Widdershins wrote: »

What! :mad:

Yep: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rape-support-network-loses-its-funding-335406.html

http://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/rape-crisis-network-reports-more-helpline-calls-despite-major-cut-in-funds-769200.html

Didn't realise it was as far back as 2015 (a sure sign of old age!) but that would have affected their services last year. Long term counselling, so for childhood abuse or historic assaults, has a waiting list of 6 months plus.

I'm not entirely sure why Tusla wanted the info. I'm not well up enough on data protection and the law to say. From a laywoman's view I can see why they didn't provide it but I don't know if I'm right.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 02:45AM

we have a rape support network but where is the network for false accused of rape network support? why is there none ?

ivytwine · 11-03-2017 02:48AM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

we have a rape support network but where is the network for false accused of rape network support? why is there none ?

Set one up? I mean in the States there's the Innocence Project, that helps people falsely accused of all sorts of crimes and it's international I think.

Like I don't know what you want anyone to say here. False accusations aren't common. We have a low conviction rate in this country. Rape itself is definitely a bigger issue than false accusations, surely?

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 03:40AM

ivytwine wrote: »

Set one up? I mean in the States there's the Innocence Project, that helps people falsely accused of all sorts of crimes and it's international I think.

Like I don't know what you want anyone to say here. False accusations aren't common. We have a low conviction rate in this country. Rape itself is definitely a bigger issue than false accusations, surely?

I Just went on Government web site Central Statistics office Recorded Crime Offences 34 garda division type of Offences and years from 2003 to 2016 and typed in offence of false accusation/ Criminal law act 1976 it dos not come up as a Offences of any type or form? Every other Offence comes up under Offence type rape and sexual assault are all there so I Just found out that state /garda /goverment do not keep records of any type of false accusations but the keep records of all other types of crime this is a red flag to me and other people who look at this will see a Red Flag Red Flag

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 04:17AM

Just went back on the Government web site Central statistics office Recorded Crime Offence by garda division type of Offence to check the 34 Garda division type of Offences there is 71 off them Offences from homicide to custody breach etc I also tried criminal law act 1976/ which is for False accustions there was no record either off this what so ever so the Government /State/ Garda are keep no records of this Offences of people who make false accusations of rape from year to 2003 to 2016 but the keep records of all other Offences but not off false rape accusation this is Red Flag to me every one should have a look at this for them selfs If this true this should be on every newspaper in the country and on rte news tv3 news Red Flag Red Flag

Absolam · 11-03-2017 09:26AM

What flag?

Zulu · 11-03-2017 09:48AM

Grayson wrote: »

This thread is just a nasty echo chamber at this stage.

You know that there's an "unfollow" button, right?

Widdershins · 11-03-2017 11:42AM

I think I've seen an example or two of people making false allegations, eventually admitting they were false but not really receiving a punishment. Hard to quantify how often it happens, I think?

johnnyskeleton · 11-03-2017 11:47AM

Grayson wrote: »

This thread is just a nasty echo chamber at this stage.

Well then, why dont you shake things up and address the points made that you disagree with, such as her mistaken belief that if there is a risk to a womans life as the law stands an abortion will not be done?

Zulu · 11-03-2017 12:25PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Well then, why dont you shake things up and address the points made that you disagree with, such as her mistaken belief that if there is a risk to a womans life as the law stands an abortion will not be done?

well because that wouldn't stifle debate, and runs the risk of exposing the horse**** for what it is.

Connacht2KXX · 11-03-2017 02:42PM

The low conviction rates for rape, especially in Ireland, is a multifaceted issue:

1. We have low conviction rates for a lot of crimes. Our judicial system is messed up and needs reform. Our inadequate system harms victims of other crimes as well. It's not as if the system is set up just to benefit rapists.

2. This is probably a view that will probably get shouted down and get me brandished as a misogynist, but women and, society at large, deserve a lot of the blame for the low rates. We should be trying to instil in both men and women that the second they get raped or sexually assaulted, the first thing that pops into their head is to go straight to the guards. We should be teaching people from the moment they come out of the womb that the most important thing that one can do when they get raped is to sprint down to the local garda station. This seems incredibly unfeasible but it is necessary to increase the conviction rates. I will post the stats later but the amount of delayed reporting is shocking. Delayed reporting is directly related to lower conviction rates, due to decreased evidence (especially DNA evidence) and other factors. Obviously rape victims respond in different ways to rape - basically what comes naturally to them. But just because something occurs naturally, doesn't mean it is beneficial. People must get brainwashed that getting raped is not your fault, you should feel no shame and you should immediately report the rape. Again, I understand how crazy this is, but it is far more effective than what most feminists are proposing eg. holding slut walks to combat rape culture.

3. Feminists constantly bítch about how bad the police are at handling rape, dont believe the victim, scrutinise the victim and claim that they are directly responsible for low conviction rates. If this is the case, which I dont really believe it is, the feminists should actually offer a method to improve the handling of rape cases. Of course, they dont. They don't say "the police lead to low conviction rates and should be doing x,y and z to increase the conviction rates". All what they say is "the police lead to low conviction rates". All of this leads to women and men being less likely to go to the guards to report the rape which increases the amount of rapists on the streets. I have no problem with them criticising the guards, but they should do it accurately and at least say what should be done to improve these deficits.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 03:12PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Just went back on the Government web site Central statistics office Recorded Crime Offence by garda division type of Offence to check the 34 Garda division type of Offences there is 71 off them Offences from homicide to custody breach etc I also tried criminal law act 1976/ which is for False accustions there was no record either off this what so ever so the Government /State/ Garda are keep no records of this Offences of people who make false accusations of rape from year to 2003 to 2016 but the keep records of all other Offences but not off false rape accusation this is Red Flag to me every one should have a look at this for them selfs If this true this should be on every newspaper in the country and on rte news tv3 news Red Flag Red Flag

I can not belive what I just found out that the government/state/garda/ dont not keep any records of the crime of being false accused of rape and we have people in rape/networks Ireland saying its myths and dos not happen where are the getting there facts from? if the government /state /garda do not acknowledge that false rape accusations are a crime and has victims who now we know have no support network and the state keep no records of this crime no wonder Louise o Neill can say we have rape culture in Ireland and the people /networks who back her up her claims without facts proof evidence conviction of rape

11-03-2017 03:20PM

Here you dropped these;

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please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 03:48PM

The only one thing that matters and that is proofs without a shadow of doubt Louse o Neill claim we have rape culture is proof and convictions and facts and there all there if sum spend a bit of time add up the figures on the government web site central statics office recorded crime offence rape/sexual assault to check the 34 garda division there is 13 years of records/data from the year to 2003 to 2016 this is want is evidence and proof and facts not hearsay from people /networks like Ireland is rape culture this very damaging our tourist industry /society.

Connacht2KXX · 11-03-2017 04:11PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

The only one thing that matters and that is proofs without a shadow of doubt Louse o Neill claim we have rape culture is proof and convictions and facts and there all there if sum spend a bit of time add up the figures on the government web site central statics office recorded crime offence rape/sexual assault to check the 34 garda division there is 13 years of records/data from the year to 2003 to 2016 this is want is evidence and proof and facts not hearsay from people /networks like Ireland is rape culture this very damaging our tourist industry /society

Rape culture is a made up bullshít term. But it has a wishy washy definition - "rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality...Behaviours commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by some forms of sexual violence, or some combination of these" (taken from Wikipedia).
Stats from CSO may or may not be used to debunk the rape culture in Ireland. For example, "pervasive" is a subjective term, so no matter what statistic you provide to prove that rape isn't pervasive, another person can turn around and say that that statistic actually proves that rape is pervasive.

Victim blaming has a broad definition so even asking questions of the rape survivor is considered victim blaming.

Sexual objectification is a by product of evolution and is perfectly normal (provided children aren't sexually objectified). Everyone sexually objectifies most people (again shouldn't be done to children).

etc etc

LON is slightly correct in that we live in her definition of a "rape culture" as certain criteria are met, but that term actually means nothing so whenever you hear someone claiming that we live in a rape culture, you know that they are a complete and utter moron.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 04:31PM

I am starting to get very worried that we have jails full Innocent people from the likes of what Louise o Neill rape culture is pushing for.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 04:37PM

Absolam wrote: »

What flag?

A red flag is an indicator of potential problems describe a warning sign in law.

The_Kew_Tour · 11-03-2017 04:38PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

I am starting to get very worried that we have jails full Innocent people from the likes of what Louise o Neill rape culture is pushing for.

Im not sure where this is going

Widdershins · 11-03-2017 04:41PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

I am starting to get very worried that we have jails full Innocent people from the likes of what Louise o Neill rape culture is pushing for.

I don't think we currently do since rape is hard to prove and hard to get a conviction for.

With what's being pushed for, maybe it's something to think about

11-03-2017 04:50PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

The only one thing that matters and that is proofs without a shadow of doubt Louse o Neill claim we have rape culture is proof and convictions and facts and there all there if sum spend a bit of time add up the figures on the government web site central statics office recorded crime offence rape/sexual assault to check the 34 garda division there is 13 years of records/data from the year to 2003 to 2016 this is want is evidence and proof and facts not hearsay from people /networks like Ireland is rape culture this very damaging our tourist industry /society

Can you please use full stops? That's one whole sentence you've got above there. It's a real effort to try figure out what you are saying. It's hard to engage with.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 05:10PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im not sure where this is going[/Q An Garda Siochana/ police policy is to believe the alleged victim first and not to believe the accused of rape is innocent we now we are dangerous water.. because what you have is before the alleged rape victim even goes into a garda station. the are belived. so what happens here is that garda/police policy will not investigate evidence . that the accused of rape is innocent and entitled to a good name because it is there policy hand down from the top Garda/commissioner to garda investigating rape allegations. and that from the very start the accused of rape is guilty. so if the person who is accused of rape is not clever enough our maybe a Vulnerable adult with a low iQ. well and the have a bad Solictor there going to Jail.so for pushing this idea that we are all part of rape culture what do you get is Miscarriages of Justice culture.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 05:17PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Can you please use full stops? That's one whole sentence you've got above there. It's a real effort to try figure out what you are saying. It's hard to engage with.

Can you would point out in my sentence where you would like full stops and I will do this for you:)

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 05:25PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Here you dropped these;

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and can you point where you would like the ... and the,,,and I Will do this for you to:)

mzungu · 11-03-2017 05:43PM

Candie wrote: »

I don't think the thread should necessarily be shut down, but there seems to be an element of some people checking her social media platforms to mine things to criticise. I find that a bit distasteful as would most people, and there is a danger of a feeding frenzy mentality when her every public utterance is examined for an opportunity to complain.

I agree. Stuff like her living arrangements and all that jazz is absolutely pointless and none of anybody else's business. Thankfully, the vast majority of the thread hasn't been about that.

Candie wrote: »

I never heard of her outside of AH, which also begs the question that if people resent the publicity and exposure she has, then why are they giving her more?

I would imagine it would be more the ideology and the discussion around it that interests most people. For example, politicians are now using the lingo and in general Irish media seem to have a policy of blind acceptance towards a lot of this stuff. Even so, for better or worse, it is out there, and it probably won't be going away.

Regarding your point about resenting exposure, I disagree. I doubt anybody resents anything about her public profile, or at least they shouldn't. She is in a game where she needs to market herself, that is the way of that particular industry and everybody in the media does it to some extent. It is perfectly acceptable that she puts herself out there. I don't agree with the vast majority of what she writes, but I am happy to live in a country where she (and others) are free to do so.

The way I view it is, as a general rule in this country, we will ape whatever is going on in the USA. If Louise O'Neill dropped feminism tomorrow and became a fully signed up card carrying member of the manosphere, it wouldn't matter a whole lot. There would just be somebody else writing the exact same stuff about "rape culture" and "straight white men" etc. There is a conveyor belt of clickbait writers out there who could just as easily take over the baton*, or if you had a computer programmer you could probably just come up with an algorithm to churn them out instead

. None of this stuff is new, in fact most of it has been rehashed in one form or another from the writings of various gender theorists and feminists for a few decades now. While I don't buy into postmodern gender theory, I do find it entertaining and interesting in its own way. I think treating it as a truth is very shaky ground, but thats just me. Recently, it has become relatively mainstream and is a money spinner now. Like all gravy trains with lobby group and media backing, this one will be pushed out there into the public sphere regardless of its unstable methodological foundations. But it is out there now, so one might as well talk about it.

Lastly, I believe ignoring it would be the wrong thing to do because people - even though they may not agree with a lot of third wave thought - have an interest in it so it stands to reason that they will pop onto a thread about it. Plus, it is good to read stuff one may not agree with. At the end of the day it's killing time on an internet forum and people will naturally gravitate towards things they find topical or interesting. But there is a discussion to be had and by-and-large a lot of the contributions on this thread have been quite insightful.

*Which as we all know is a phallic symbol of the patriarchy!! Just no escaping this cisgendered heteronormativity, eh? :pac::P

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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