Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Widdershins · 10-03-2017 10:51PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

this a very dangerous time for men and women living in Ireland with Louise o Neill rape culture all you need is a liar and mob = recipe for disaster and now you could have innocent man /women boy/girl being serious injury or even Death our Jail our suicide by this hysteria and this will 100 per cent happen in Ireland you can see this happening this is what happened Bristol England in man Mr Bijan Ebrahim Innocent man burned to death by vigilante neighbours who mistook falsely accused paedophilia burned to death you can see this happening here in Ireland 100 per cent.

Ugh. I see what you meant about witch hunts.:(

Grayson · 10-03-2017 11:05PM

Doesn't anyone see the irony in talking about witch hunts on a thread that is essentially a witch hunt?

Widdershins · 10-03-2017 11:11PM

Grayson wrote: »

Doesn't anyone see the irony in talking about witch hunts on a thread that is essentially a witch hunt?

I think that's pretty belittling to the kind of thing posted above. It's a critical thread, nobody's witchhunting the woman. She's not accused of anything, only critiqued for her statements. Inflammatory statements, targeting men, and targeting people for their skin colour.
Do you see anyone inciting a violent mob, or suggesting any harm should come to the columnist?

please helpThank YOU · 10-03-2017 11:15PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Ugh. I see what you meant about witch hunts.:(

Thank You widdershins very scary dark times ahead for Ireland with Louise o Neill rape culture we are gone back in time middle ages dark times like the Salem witch trials that in the 1668 Joseph glanvil claimed there was witches Witch Culture like Louise o Neill rape culture .

Grayson · 10-03-2017 11:27PM

Widdershins wrote: »

I think that's pretty belittling to the kind of thing posted above. It's a critical thread, nobody's witchhunting the woman. She's not accused of anything, only critiqued for her statements. Inflammatory statements, targeting men, and targeting people for their skin colour.
Do you see anyone inciting a violent mob, or suggesting any harm should come to the columnist?

I suggest you look up the definition of witch hunt. Google it and this is the first thing that pops up.

a campaign directed against a person or group holding views considered unorthodox or a threat to society.

It's over 250 pages at this stage. People talking about her doctors appointments? It's getting freakishly obsessive and personal at this stage. Suggest that she might have actually had a doctors appointment and you're told that she's a lying bitch.

This thread is just a nasty echo chamber at this stage.

please helpThank YOU · 10-03-2017 11:39PM

Grayson wrote: »

I suggest you look up the definition of witch hunt. Google it and this is the first thing that pops up.

It's over 250 pages at this stage. People talking about her doctors appointments? It's getting freakishly obsessive and personal at this stage. Suggest that she might have actually had a doctors appointment and you're told that she's a lying bitch.

This thread is just a nasty echo chamber at this stage.

I just google it on the top of my page its says a witch hunt is a search for people labelled witches or evidence of witchcraft often involving moral panic or mass hysteria Louise o Neill rape culture labelled Men/Women Boys /Girls of rape culture in Ireland

Widdershins · 10-03-2017 11:43PM

Grayson wrote: »

I suggest you look up the definition of witch hunt. Google it and this is the first thing that pops up.

It's over 250 pages at this stage. People talking about her doctors appointments? It's getting freakishly obsessive and personal at this stage. Suggest that she might have actually had a doctors appointment and you're told that she's a lying bitch.

This thread is just a nasty echo chamber at this stage.

There's a rule on Boards, something like ''attack the post not the poster''. Are you saying attacking, or criticising, LON's publicly broadcast views, is a campaign AGAINST LON HERSELF?

You brought a doctor's appointment up, though, or didn't you? And others pointed out that one generally knows in advance of one's own medical appointments. Having made repeated declarations of intent to support a widely publicised-and widely promulgated by herself-newsworthy event, it's going to get a few comments if it looks like she didn't put much value on the event after all.

I don't follow her. I'm interested in the issues discussed here and couldn't care less which feminist columnist or author happens to be espousing the offensive and contentious stuff I've seen being reported on this thread. If other posters simply wrote ''a newspaper has published an article claiming that men..'' or ''claiming that women in Ireland..'' it would be the same thing.The views being published are the issue here. The author of those views (and she isn't the only author or public figure discussed in this thread, there have been numerous) pus HERSELF in the limelight, and probably overshares, which is going to elicit comments, because that's what happens on social media. She could simply write anonymously and the bulk of the thread would be much the same, minus a few shallow comments about her latest selfies.
I'm here because I don't appreciate feminist spokeswomen speaking 'for' me as a feminist, in such dramatic and polarising terms as the writer often does.
And a witchhunt generally results in something sinister, this is a Boards thread debating, and mainly disagreeing with the writer's stance. Criticism is an occupational hazard for writers. It appears that shock value is exactly what this particular author is aiming for. If it comes as a surprise that her views and statements sometimes bother people, she must be a very naive woman indeed.

Grayson · 10-03-2017 11:45PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

I just google it on the top of my page its says a witch hunt is a search for people labelled witches or evidence of witchcraft often involving moral panic or mass hysteria Louise o Neill rape culture labelled Men/Women Boys /Girls of rape culture in Ireland

Firstly. Please use full stops. Secondly, what does the bolded bit mean? Thirdly I attached a screenshot.

Smegmaniac17 · 10-03-2017 11:46PM

Grayson wrote: »

I suggest you look up the definition of witch hunt. Google it and this is the first thing that pops up.

It's over 250 pages at this stage. People talking about her doctors appointments? It's getting freakishly obsessive and personal at this stage. Suggest that she might have actually had a doctors appointment and you're told that she's a lying bitch.

This thread is just a nasty echo chamber at this stage.

I agree with you that there is too much obsessing over every single thing that LON does. However, the ideology of 'rape culture' is something that an awful lot of people want to talk about and if you want to join in on the discussion here on boards this is the thread to do it! There is another thread on rape culture that I saw but the discussion ended in 2012. So your representation of this thread as if it's 250 pages of just bashing LON doesn't seem quite accurate to me! Yeah, of course, Louise O'Neill is going to feature fairly strongly in the discussion but if you are extremely opposed to the ideology of Rape Culture it does make sense to discredit one of it's most high profile cheerleaders, try and debunk her arguments and expose her hypocrisy! But yeah, I get that there is too much obsessing over every single thing she does.

However, I don't think this is an echo chamber at all! Any time a person who wants to make a case for the existence of Rape Culture comes on here, the posters here get excited about it. If anything, they're absolutely desperate to debate it with people who have the opposing view... and the majority try to engage with the arguments meticulously. And it is usually the person who was arguing for Rape Culture that walks away from the debate without addressing some of the most difficult challenges to their arguments offered. (from what I've seen anyway).

Widdershins · 10-03-2017 11:51PM

Maybe reopen a thread and make a rule that personal remarks on appearance or speculation r.e mental health (Despite the fact that LON apparently shares that information anyway) would allow discussion on the meat of the subject. However I see nothing unusual or excessive about the fraction of comments that have focused on the above. A few mild comments about someone's unusual outfit that they themself published is hardly persecution.
The bulk of the thread is about serious questions and concerns for men and women in Ireland, how we relate to one another and how we handle relationships and sex.

JRant · 10-03-2017 11:52PM

Grayson wrote: »

I suggest you look up the definition of witch hunt. Google it and this is the first thing that pops up.

It's over 250 pages at this stage. People talking about her doctors appointments? It's getting freakishly obsessive and personal at this stage. Suggest that she might have actually had a doctors appointment and you're told that she's a lying bitch.

This thread is just a nasty echo chamber at this stage.

Wooh there horsey, nobody has called her a bitch.

This type of posting is becoming far too prevalent for my liking. Just dropping in and trying to get a thread shutdown with incendiary posting, accusing posters of saying things that just never happened.

Grayson · 10-03-2017 11:53PM

Widdershins wrote: »

There's a rule on Boards, something like ''attack the post not the poster''. Are you saying attacking, or criticising, LON's publicly broadcast views, is a campaign AGAINST LON HERSELF?

You brought a doctor's appointment up, though, or didn't you? And others pointed out that one generally knows in advance of one's own medical appointments. Having made repeated declarations of intent to support a widely publicised-and widely promulgated by herself-newsworthy event, it's going to get a few comments if it looks like she didn't put much value on the event after all.

I don't follow her. I'm interested in the issues discussed here and couldn't care less which feminist columnist or author happens to be espousing the offensive and contentious stuff I've seen being reported on this thread. If other posters simply wrote ''a newspaper has published an article claiming that men..'' or ''claiming that women in Ireland..'' it would be the same thing.The views being published are the issue here. The author of those views (and she isn't the only author or public figure discussed in this thread, there have been numerous) pus HERSELF in the limelight, and probably overshares, which is going to elicit comments, because that's what happens on social media. She could simply write anonymously and the bulk of the thread would be much the same, minus a few shallow comments about her latest selfies.

And a witchhunt generally results in something sinister, this is a Boards thread debating, and mainly disagreeing with the writer's stance. Criticism is an occupational hazard for writers.

Go back through the thread. You'll see that other posters brought up the doctors appointment and gave out **** about it. It's only a few pages back. I suggested that she might actually have had an appointment or need to go to a doctor. The **** that people said about her. People started saying she's lying about it. Or that it's not important and she should skip it for the march. Because she didn't skip it, she's a hypocrite.

Once again, I'm not the person who brought it up. Someone else did as a way to criticise her. All I said was that maybe she actually did have an appointment. I also said it's weird going on about her doctors appointment.

This thread has got to the stage where it's verging on internet stalking. Following her every social media post and commenting on her personal life. It's really, really weird.

Sweetemotion · 10-03-2017 11:53PM

Grayson wrote: »

Firstly. Please use full stops. Secondly, what does the bolded bit mean? Thirdly I attached a screenshot.

Isn't that what LON is doing to the "Straight white male"?

Grayson · 10-03-2017 11:59PM

JRant wrote: »

Wooh there horsey, nobody has called her a bitch.

This type of posting is becoming far too prevalent for my liking. Just dropping in and trying to get a thread shutdown with incendiary posting, accusing posters of saying things that just never happened.

Trying to get a thread shutdown? WTF are you talking about?

Widdershins · 10-03-2017 11:59PM

Grayson wrote: »

Go back through the thread. You'll see that other posters brought up the doctors appointment and gave out **** about it. It's only a few pages back. I suggested that she might actually have had an appointment or need to go to a doctor. The **** that people said about her. People started saying she's lying about it. Or that it's not important and she should skip it for the march. Because she didn't skip it, she's a hypocrite.

Once again, I'm not the person who brought it up. Someone else did as a way to criticise her. All I said was that maybe she actually did have an appointment. I also said it's weird going on about her doctors appointment.

This thread has got to the stage where it's verging on internet stalking. Following her every social media post and commenting on her personal life. It's really, really weird.

Grayson, she's an author with a Twitter presence, they're *supposed* to follow it. It's not my cup of tea but I see nothing wrong there.

I called it a cop out that she made a hoo ha about the repeal strike and then didn't go because she had something else to do. I found it disrespectful to those who did-unless she had a good reason, but it didn't look like it from what I read here. So? Should she be mortally offended because some woman on Boards thought she was weak willed and lacking in integrity? I very much doubt she cares but she's welcome to take it up with me. I mean her no harm whatsoever. I doubt anyone else does, either.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 12:01AM

Grayson wrote: »

Firstly. Please use full stops. Secondly, what does the bolded bit mean? Thirdly I attached a screenshot.

Louise o Neill rape culture the ideas customs and social behaviour of particiular people or society now would Man/Women and Boy/Girl of rape culture we are in very dangerous times with this thinking and mind set come from people and who is back this Ridiculous absurd thinking who is behind this thing is there money to made in this ?

Sweetemotion · 11-03-2017 12:02AM

Grayson wrote: »

Go back through the thread. You'll see that other posters brought up the doctors appointment and gave out **** about it. It's only a few pages back. I suggested that she might actually have had an appointment or need to go to a doctor. The **** that people said about her. People started saying she's lying about it. Or that it's not important and she should skip it for the march. Because she didn't skip it, she's a hypocrite.

Once again, I'm not the person who brought it up. Someone else did as a way to criticise her. All I said was that maybe she actually did have an appointment. I also said it's weird going on about her doctors appointment.

This thread has got to the stage where it's verging on internet stalking. Following her every social media post and commenting on her personal life. It's really, really weird.

Do you also find the people commenting on Donald Trump, really, really weird?

JRant · 11-03-2017 12:07AM

Grayson wrote: »

Trying to get a thread shutdown? WTF are you talking about?

You know exactly what I'm on about Grayson and it's not very subtle.

Nobody bar you called her a bitch. Then you go on about the thread being creepy and weird. If not to get the thread shutdown then why?

There is for the most part a very good discussion going on here. Far better than what you are trying to portrait it as.

retro:electro · 11-03-2017 12:08AM

Grayson wrote: »

Go back through the thread. You'll see that other posters brought up the doctors appointment and gave out **** about it. It's only a few pages back. I suggested that she might actually have had an appointment or need to go to a doctor. The **** that people said about her. People started saying she's lying about it. Or that it's not important and she should skip it for the march. Because she didn't skip it, she's a hypocrite.

Once again, I'm not the person who brought it up. Someone else did as a way to criticise her. All I said was that maybe she actually did have an appointment. I also said it's weird going on about her doctors appointment.

This thread has got to the stage where it's verging on internet stalking. Following her every social media post and commenting on her personal life. It's really, really weird.

If you're referring to what I said, I never said she lied about going to the doctor. In fact I believe she was at an appointment. What I don't get was why she alluded all week that she was to be in attendance of the march last Wednesday. A march which she encouraged people to take the day off work for- yet was a no show herself- people debated her absence for a few pages and moved on in the discussion.

Many people only brought up the doctor/therapy/meeting points to say she would have known in advance she was going to those so why say she's going to the march. Nobody (AFAIK) said she was a "lying bitch" and never went to the doctor. If I'm wrong please point me to the post which stated that.

Widdershins · 11-03-2017 12:24AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Do you also find the people commenting on Donald Trump, really, really weird?

This. And so many other public figures are constantly on the receiving end of nothing but appearance focused, petty comments. LON and other similar minded 'feminists' make statements and their statements are talked about. It's an honour to be taken that seriously when frankly a lot of her views are barmy. But she gets a level of respect that many others, maybe especially men, don't get. Apart from a minority of comments that are not made in a with gravitas, like generally fairly innocuous (and often quite complimentary) remarks about her latest selfie.

anna080 wrote: »

If you're referring to what I said, I never said she lied about going to the doctor. In fact I believe she was at an appointment. What I don't get was why she alluded all week to be in attendance of the march last Wednesday. A march which she encouraged people to take the day off work for- yet was a no show herself- people debated her absence for a few pages and moved on in the discussion.

Many people only brought up the doctor/therapy/meeting points to say she would have known in advance she was going so why say she's going to the march. Nobody (AFAIK) said she was a "lying bitch" and never went to the doctor. If I'm wrong please point me to the post which stated that.

Exactly..it keeps being dragged back up, making it seem like a much bigger fuss was made over her non appearance.

If I thought this thread was a character assassination I'd have said so, and unfollowed it. I can differentiate between that and what it is, just commentary on her commentary.

11-03-2017 12:26AM

I don't think the thread should necessarily be shut down, but there seems to be an element of some people checking her social media platforms to mine things to criticise. I find that a bit distasteful as would most people, and there is a danger of a feeding frenzy mentality when her every public utterance is examined for an opportunity to complain.

Regarding the doctor, I got an appointment today for Monday morning and it's not something I can really postpone regardless of any other plans I may have had. I don't see why we can't extend the benefit of the doubt to someone when they say they have a doctors appointment that can't be delayed. There are plenty of reasons to call LON a hypocrite but that shouldn't be one of them.

I never heard of her outside of AH, which also begs the question that if people resent the publicity and exposure she has, then why are they giving her more?

Wibbs · 11-03-2017 12:31AM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Thank You widdershins very scary dark times ahead for Ireland with Louise o Neill rape culture we are gone back in time middle ages dark times like the Salem witch trials that in the 1668 Joseph glanvil claimed there was witches Witch Culture like Louise o Neill rape culture .

Eh no. Just no. This kinda thing is precisely the kind of arm waving hysterical nonsense that drives wedges between people. Just like the witterings of Ms O'N and her ilk(and not just on her "side"). That section of society that has some(thankfully small number) of women seeing rapists at every turn - often oddly disappointed that there aren't, so invent the "threat", and some (again thankfully small number) of men who are convinced that women are ganging up to invent rape charges agin them, while stealing their "masculine essence" and/or wallets. If my opinion on this thread could be summed up, it would be; step away from the daftness/get over oneself/normal people don't give a toss, they're too busy living actual lives.

Grayson wrote: »

This thread is just a nasty echo chamber at this stage.

...pity it's not one you happen to approve of it seems. And again with more of the hysterics going on. Nobody called the woman a "bitch" save for yourself. The vast vast majority of posts and posters have been playing the ball not the (wo)man. As for "Internet stalking"? More hysterics. Internet stalking a full time professional self promoter. journo, bloggist and gold level member of the Twitterati is akin to claiming shooting stuffed tigers in a public museum is hunting. Daft.

JRant · 11-03-2017 12:38AM

Candie wrote: »

I don't think the thread should necessarily be shut down, but there seems to be an element of some people checking her social media platforms to mine things to criticise. I find that a bit distasteful as would most people, and there is a danger of a feeding frenzy mentality when her every public utterance is examined for an opportunity to complain.

Regarding the doctor, I got an appointment today for Monday morning and it's not something I can really postpone regardless of any other plans I may have had. I don't see why we can't extend the benefit of the doubt to someone when they say they have a doctors appointment that can't be delayed. There are plenty of reasons to call LON a hypocrite but that shouldn't be one of them.

I never heard of her outside of AH, which also begs the question that if people resent the publicity and exposure she has, then why are they giving her more?

Well there is absolutely no reason for this thread to be closed down. It's actually refreshing to have a discussion that is quite informative and for the most part completely self policing. There has never been a chance of it becoming a feeding frenzy as the vast majority of posters just want to discuss the topic and have been quite critical when someone has overstepped the mark.

Widdershins · 11-03-2017 12:46AM

Candie wrote: »

I don't think the thread should necessarily be shut down, but there seems to be an element of some people checking her social media platforms to mine things to criticise. I find that a bit distasteful as would most people, and there is a danger of a feeding frenzy mentality when her every public utterance is examined for an opportunity to complain.

Regarding the doctor, I got an appointment today for Monday morning and it's not something I can really postpone regardless of any other plans I may have had. I don't see why we can't extend the benefit of the doubt to someone when they say they have a doctors appointment that can't be delayed. There are plenty of reasons to call LON a hypocrite but that shouldn't be one of them.

I never heard of her outside of AH, which also begs the question that if people resent the publicity and exposure she has, then why are they giving her more?

The issue for me was that apparently she felt really strongly about going to Repeal thing. We've been hearing about it for a while now, on Boards at least. It's something that annoys me about people generally. I'd put myself out for something I felt strongly about. It's disappointing when others haven't the same level of enthusiasm underneath their talk, especially if it seems they don't appreciate that people are making sacrifices of their own so they can participate. Yes things sometimes come up and yes we should give the benefit of the doubt. I would be dubious in future though.If I followed her!

Widdershins · 11-03-2017 12:48AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh no. Just no. This kinda thing is precisely the kind of arm waving hysterical nonsense that drives wedges between people. Just like the witterings of Ms O'N and her ilk(and not just on her "side"). .

I don't think it was that far-fetched. I think there was a legislation change being discussed in the gentlemens forum here, regarding the subject. Hopefully you're correct.

red ears · 11-03-2017 01:01AM

Widdershins wrote: »

I don't think it was that far-fetched. I think there was a legislation change being discussed in the gentlemens forum here, regarding the subject. Hopefully you're correct.

That's what i worry about, the feminists are shouting loudly and getting noticed. Society is changing to suit their demands. Men quietly going about their business and maintain a sort of higher moral ground doesn't seem to be working out so well. Take the extreme example of what they have achieved in university campus's in America with the Title IX related expulsions. They tend to get a lot of what they want, how it affects men is not a major concern of theirs.

ivytwine · 11-03-2017 01:06AM

Grayson, I criticised LON for the way she acted regarding her non-appearance. Never called her a lying bitch. I guess for me it is a little bit personal. I dated someone who talked a very good social media game on these issues, but when it came to actually supporting someone emotionally or practically they couldn't cut the mustard. Still presumably talking a good game with little self awareness. Maybe I should take a step back, maybe she does have a legit excuse. I believe most of my posts here have been fair enough. Given some limited personal knowledge of the person in question with mutual friends etc, I don't think I'm over the line.

The thread started as far as I'm aware out of the programme LON hosted on RTE, 100% a legitimate source of discussion. If Brendan O'Connor hosted a show like this and it became a monster thread with some moronic comments on his appearance, would you have complained?

As it stands I personally have had some very interesting conversations arising out of this thread, stuff I've discussed in the wider world with people and have agreed and disagreed with.

"I think the version of feminism she espouses is very worthy of discussion. I have, personally, tried to keep it as far as I can to that. This brand of feminism is lazy, unthinking, glorying in victimhood, impractical, consumerist and middle class focussed, totally regurgitated from the United States, and as a woman, a survivor of sexual violence and a person who grew up in Irish poverty, I think it's important to point out that not all feminists buy into this brand wholesale."

Instead of saying posters who are (mostly) trying to have a civilised debate are bullying a woman in an echo chamber, would you care to have a read over the above I previously posted, because I stand over it?

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 01:16AM

Louise o Niell rape culture how many people have being convicted of rape in Ireland in last 5 years? how many people have being convicted of making false accusations of rape in the last 5 years ? how much funding has the rape crisis Centre and one in four received in last 5 years? how much facts when I mean Facts I mean people who have being convicted of rape in the last 5 years to prove what Louise o Neill rape culture Ireland claims and she got facts and figures to prove this hearsay?

11-03-2017 01:18AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Do you also find the people commenting on Donald Trump, really, really weird?

Or Katie Hopkins who'se basically LON on the other extreme end of the spectrum

ivytwine · 11-03-2017 01:21AM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Louise o Niell rape culture how many people have being convicted of rape in Ireland in last 5 years? how many people have being convicted of making false accusations of rape in the last 5 years ? how much funding has the rape crisis Centre and one in four received in last 5 years? how much facts when I mean Facts I mean people who have being convicted of rape in the last 5 years to prove what Louise o Neill rape culture Ireland claims and she got facts and figures to prove this hearsay?

RCC got its funding cut by 70% last year, to answer one of your questions. Rape happens, most people do not falsely accuse. My beef with "rape culture" is that it doesn't address the issue in any practical manner.

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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