The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Knex* · 08-03-2017 10:19AM

I think you also have to factor in that Washington had an oustanding offense around Cousins. One of the best OLs in the league, one of the best TEs along with a serviceable other in Davis, fairly good receiving corps and decent backs.

Redskins are about to lose the WRs and the QB, so I imagine they'll take a hit, but they seem to be confident that they can get similar production from many other QBs due to their system/offensive talent.

49ers on the other hand have absolutely feck all on offense.

It'll be an interesting one to watch, for sure.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 10:35AM

adrian522 wrote: »

That would be a very good deal for Washington to be honest. An OK deal for SF. I'm not sold on him as a franchise QB and I'm not sure the proce being quoted is worth it for the sake of getting him a year early, particularly in relation to next years 1st round pick,

I think it would be a pretty fair trade 2 picks for a top 12 Qb.

Not sure you are going to pick up better in the draft or free agency in the coming years.

jack presley · 08-03-2017 10:42AM

Knex. wrote: »

I think you also have to factor in that Washington had an oustanding offense around Cousins. One of the best OLs in the league, one of the best TEs along with a serviceable other in Davis, fairly good receiving corps and decent backs.

Redskins are about to lose the WRs and the QB, so I imagine they'll take a hit, but they seem to be confident that they can get similar production from many other QBs due to their system/offensive talent.

49ers on the other hand have absolutely feck all on offense.

It'll be an interesting one to watch, for sure.

While the OL is great at protecting the QB, it's pretty poor at opening up running lanes so I think calling it one of the best in the league is a bit of a stretch.

adrian522 · 08-03-2017 10:43AM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

I think it would be a pretty fair trade 2 picks for a top 12 Qb.

Not sure you are going to pick up better in the draft or free agency in the coming years.

You'd pick up exactly the same QB in Free agency next offseason. I'll reserve judgement until I see what is being given up (if it does indeed happen).

jack presley · 08-03-2017 10:44AM

I'd take the deal that Rappaport is reporting in a heartbeat. I'm still surprised at it though. I know Lynch is inexperienced but it would seem to be a big gamble for someone so new in a job to take.

brinty · 08-03-2017 10:45AM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

I think it would be a pretty fair trade 2 picks for a top 12 Qb.

Not sure you are going to pick up better in the draft or free agency in the coming years.

Guys if he's a top 12 QB how is he not a "franchise" quarter back and why are the redskins not tying him down to a long term deal?

I often hear this term franchise QB but for the life of me i don't understand it and how people rank QB's.

For me the guys i'd consider franchise QB's are Brady, Luck, Rodgers, Cam, Big Ben, Brees, Wilson. Sorry of i'm forgetting someone obvious. Are they the only guys considered franchise QB's and every other team could take or leave their QB

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 10:50AM

adrian522 wrote: »

You'd pick up exactly the same QB in Free agency next offseason. I'll reserve judgement until I see what is being given up (if it does indeed happen).

You would, but you'd have to fight for him in Free Agency where there would probably be teams with more chance of winning (Houston for example) than a rebuilding San Fran. The 49ers though have history and a storied franchise behind them so to me they are always going to be an attractive team but I think you probably pay more next year if he hits free agency.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 10:51AM

brinty wrote: »

Guys if he's a top 12 QB how is he not a "franchise" quarter back and why are the redskins not tying him down to a long term deal?

Are you saying he's not a top 12 QB?

adrian522 · 08-03-2017 10:54AM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

You would, but you'd have to fight for him in Free Agency where there would probably be teams with more chance of winning (Houston for example) than a rebuilding San Fran. The 49ers though have history and a storied franchise behind them so to me they are always going to be an attractive team but I think you probably pay more next year if he hits free agency.

Well he seems to want to come to San Francisco and we have the Cap space to outbid pretty much anyone in any case.

Given the state of the franchise we need all the picks we can get and its not like we are a QB away from competing.

If he works out then I guess the price is ok but it is a pretty big gamble to take. I'd rather take a lower priced free agent in 2017, coupled with 2 rookies, one on day 2 and one on day 3 and see how they fare.

jack presley · 08-03-2017 10:57AM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Are you saying he's not a top 12 QB?

Top 12 isn't really a high bar though is it? Especially for the money he wants. I don't think a team with him at QB will ever get near to a super bowl win. Unless it has the '85 Bears defence or similar. But all things being equal, he's great for stats but can you rely on him when needed?

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 11:08AM

I think thats a little harsh. Worse Qb's have won a Superbowl. Plus he has only been a starter for a couple of years, he has potential to improve his performance under pressure.

Look me an you both know that at times he lets down the team with bad reads and bad throws. He was frustrating in big game situations last season, really frustrating. There is the reason neither of us are enthusiastic at keeping him under center for the Redskins but he's still a really decent QB.

Knex* · 08-03-2017 11:10AM

jack presley wrote: »

While the OL is great at protecting the QB, it's pretty poor at opening up running lanes so I think calling it one of the best in the league is a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps I'm giving it too much credit based off of previous years, so. I've still normally been impressed by it in recent times, though.

If Washington get No.2, will they trade back?

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 11:14AM

Knex. wrote: »

Perhaps I'm giving it too much credit based off of previous years, so. I've still normally been impressed by it in recent times, though.

If Washington get No.2, will they trade back?

Not if Myles is there.

Knex* · 08-03-2017 11:16AM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Not if Myles is there.

If Garrett is there, the Browns deserve to get their collective heads smacked. It'll be some win for Washington though.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 11:23AM

Knex. wrote: »

If Garrett is there, the Browns deserve to get their collective heads smacked. It'll be some win for Washington though.

Yeah sure he wont be there but I guess you never know! Knowing Washington Like I do they give up their next four first round picks to move up one spot and then dont take Myles!

coco0981 · 08-03-2017 11:56AM

brinty wrote: »

I will categorically say there's no way that Romo will be hitting the free market. We've too much money tied up in him to just throw him away. Jethro will want something and if the Redskins want a replacement for Cousins, Jethro will make them pay if Romo is the guy.. a number two pick absolutely if you're giving them a franchise QB who can improve them.

As i said yesterday i don't think there's a way Romo is in the burgundy and gold with out us getting something huge in return.

Don't see any way Dallas can get anything significant for Romo for a good few reasons

Teams know he's not going to stay in Dallas to be a no 2 and anyway his cap hit for a backup would be ridiculous
Jerry Jones has said he will do right by Romo which really means releasing him so he can choose where to go
How much trade value does a 36 year old injury prone qb really have given he is going to be released anyway

brinty · 08-03-2017 12:13PM

coco0981 wrote: »

Don't see any way Dallas can get anything significant for Romo for a good few reasons

Teams know he's not going to stay in Dallas to be a no 2 and anyway his cap hit for a backup would be ridiculous
Jerry Jones has said he will do right by Romo which really means releasing him so he can choose where to go
How much trade value does a 36 year old injury prone qb really have given he is going to be released anyway

We've to swallow the cap hit anyways and knowing our injury record we'll likely lose Dak to an season ending injury in the off season and then we're stuck with no current signed back up, so it'd be like 15 all over again and a carousel of QB's. no thanks

Apparently Denver are waiting for him to be released and will then pick him up, i'm sure there's another few teams taking a similar approach.

Jerry will do right by Romo so long as it suits him and the cowboys. Of that you can be sure. Jerry only does things for the sake of Jerry

He's not going to be released, if he'll be picked up the next day by one off several teams. Injury prone or not he's worth a flyer when Dallas are picking up the tab in dead money

Realistically if Denver came forward and said we'll swap first round picks and give you a late rounder (we've no fifth as things stand) for Romo I'd take that..

mcgratheoin · 08-03-2017 12:20PM

brinty wrote: »

I often hear this term franchise QB but for the life of me i don't understand it and how people rank QB's.

For me the guys i'd consider franchise QB's are Brady, Luck, Rodgers, Cam, Big Ben, Brees, Wilson. Sorry of i'm forgetting someone obvious. Are they the only guys considered franchise QB's and every other team could take or leave their QB

Essentially it's someone you can draft and build your team around. So you've mentioned 7, you could also include Matt Ryan, Eli, Rivers, Dalton, Stafford & Flacco to give you 13 experienced playoff calibre QBs that their teams are wedded to and confident with (obviously with age being a factor in planning around some of them).
I don't think I'd have Cousins in that group (yet) so the question is where to rank him. Would you put him ahead of Alex Smith? For what teams would he be a definite upgrade at the position? If your team had Winston/Prescott/Carr/Wentz then would you be happy to do a direct swap at QB?

Cousins will get paid - even this year he won't have too much to complain about on the second tag - but Washington won't give him more than they think he's worth. Everyone is talking about his leverage next year, but assuming nothing happens in the meantime next year's available QBs will include Garoppolo, AJ McCarron and one of Bridgewater or Bradford. Andrew Brandt had an interesting article in the MMQB about the business aspect of it and he's not jumping on the "Washington are idiots" bandwagon just yet. If they are sure he's their answer this time next year then they'll get a deal done and it'll end up being about 20-30 million over what they could have done last year - I think they'd accept that as a fair enough price for having 2 years to kick the tires. It also gives them another year to see how he copes with the almost inevitable change in offensive weapons - no way they can bring back all 3 of DeSean Jackson, Pierre Garcon and Vernon Davis.

coco0981 · 08-03-2017 12:31PM

brinty wrote: »

We've to swallow the cap hit anyways and knowing our injury record we'll likely lose Dak to an season ending injury in the off season and then we're stuck with no current signed back up, so it'd be like 15 all over again and a carousel of QB's. no thanks

Apparently Denver are waiting for him to be released and will then pick him up, i'm sure there's another few teams taking a similar approach.

Jerry will do right by Romo so long as it suits him and the cowboys. Of that you can be sure. Jerry only does things for the sake of Jerry

He's not going to be released, if he'll be picked up the next day by one off several teams. Injury prone or not he's worth a flyer when Dallas are picking up the tab in dead money

Realistically if Denver came forward and said we'll swap first round picks and give you a late rounder (we've no fifth as things stand) for Romo I'd take that..

There are probably a decent amount of teams that would take Romo, but very few that Room would be willing to go to. Teams mentioned that Romo would consider are
Texans- Already have to pay Osweiler so not likely
Cardinals- Possible
Chiefs- Don't see it happening
Broncos- Most realistic option

With that few options it means there won't exactly be a frenzy so teams can afford to wait till he's released or else offer very little in trade value, at most a 3rd

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 12:41PM

All indications from Romo's camp are that they are expecting his release. I think that will more than likely happen. He probably ends up in Denver though as much as the Redskins might like the idea of taking him and trading Cousins.

Dont see any market in which anyone trades anything to the Cowboys for him unless maybe Denver do that swap Binty was taking about.

brinty · 08-03-2017 02:52PM

Brandon Marshall to the Giants
2 year deal for $12M

08-03-2017 03:31PM

brinty wrote: »

Brandon Marshall to the Giants
2 year deal for $12M

Well **** that's some group of receivers.

mI AMi worries that they will be able to take the top off most teams

thomond2006 · 08-03-2017 03:42PM

What date does Romo need to be released by before his 2017 salary becomes guaranteed?

brinty · 08-03-2017 03:51PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

What date does Romo need to be released by before his 2017 salary becomes guaranteed?

some or all of it will be guaranteed
if we cut him tomorrow he gets 19m
if he's designated a june 1 release we've to pay him 14m

If he retires he still gets 14m i believe that can be spread over the next two years!!

adrian522 · 08-03-2017 03:57PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

What date does Romo need to be released by before his 2017 salary becomes guaranteed?

I think its already guaranteed. He is owed $14m in base salary and $10m in prorated bonus.

If they cut him before June 1st they save $5m against the Cap but carry $19.6m in dead money.

After June 1st its a saving of around $14m against the cap with $10m in dead money.

I'm not really clear on the June 1st designation. I think you can apply a june 1st designation but still release him now, not sure how the whole thing works.

Overthecap.com is a good resource for all things salary cap related.

http://overthecap.com/player/tony-romo/145

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 04:11PM

All of Romo's $25 million is guaranteed apparently.

If a team picks him up though does what they pay him get taken off the Cowboys bill??

Hazys · 08-03-2017 04:17PM

If they trade Romo does it save them any money?

adrian522 · 08-03-2017 04:19PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

All of Romo's $25 million is guaranteed apparently.

If a team picks him up though does what they pay him get taken off the Cowboys bill??

No once he is released he negotiates a new contract with his new team independent of what Dallas are paying him (That's my understanding anyway).

Hazys wrote: »

If they trade Romo does it save them any money?

No, still the same as cutting him from what I can see.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 04:45PM

Then it's tough to see why they wont just cut him. It looks likely with them looking at Josh McCown

brinty · 08-03-2017 04:57PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Then it's tough to see why they wont just cut him. It looks likely with them looking at Josh McCown

They aren't cutting him as the cap hit is high. They can hold him until a team needs a QB (someone could get injured like Teddy B and they gave up a lot to get Bradford) or draft day teams look to move up or down (and Romo could be capital in any deal)

We've no back up/ third QB at present so McCowan is a separate deal.

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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