Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip · 28-02-2017 5:59pm

cgcsb wrote: »

You know what would Really improve railway services in the west of Ireland?! Reinstate the double tracked section from portarlington to Athlone. Maybe then trains might actually run on time, Galway can have an hourly service to Dublin and the train might even be a little bit faster, current journey times are a joke. Trains to Westport would benefit into the bargain.

Ah yes and us "anti rail" greenway folk have said pretty much the same for a long time, I actually advocated reinstating Athlone to Mullingar so that a faster commuter service could run from Athlone = Moate - Mullingar - Longford - dublin connolly, but instead they turned that track into a bloody greenway!

More passing points on the routes west of Mullingar and Athlone and double track into Galway from Athenry. For the 105 million spent on phase one of the WRC a lot less could have delivered a lot more for western rail services.

eastwest · 28-02-2017 6:29pm

westtip wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

From Claremorris ?... or Tubbercurry- or maybe Balindine?

MuckyB be serious these people want the chuff chuff from Derry to Shannon to reunite the lost bretheren. Mind you they will have to get off the train in Kiltimagh to mount the velo-rail

And they'll have to walk or cycle the sligo section.

eastwest · 28-02-2017 6:33pm

cgcsb wrote: »

You know what would Really improve railway services in the west of Ireland?! Reinstate the double tracked section from portarlington to Athlone. Maybe then trains might actually run on time, Galway can have an hourly service to Dublin and the train might even be a little bit faster, current journey times are a joke. Trains to Westport would benefit into the bargain.

There's only a limited pot of money for rail, and political interference has caused a disproportionate amount of that to be spent on areas where passenger numbers are small. Not only could the money spent on the wrc have been used to better effect on proposals like that, but also the continual drain on funds used to subsidise the wrc and the other two heavy loss makers.

Del.Monte · 28-02-2017 6:54pm

cgcsb wrote: »

You know what would Really improve railway services in the west of Ireland?! Reinstate the double tracked section from portarlington to Athlone. Maybe then trains might actually run on time, Galway can have an hourly service to Dublin and the train might even be a little bit faster, current journey times are a joke. Trains to Westport would benefit into the bargain.

Even better would be the reinstatement of the Mullingar/Athlone line which would allow for more passenger journeys e.g. Galway/Maynooth for the University etc.

end of the road · 28-02-2017 7:04pm

bagels wrote: »

Its not a Tuam joke. I can assure you the people of Tuam and its hinterland want a Greenway, not a railway.
Tuam is exceedingly well served by bus services so has no need at all for a rail service. Most buses travelling north from Galway service Tuam and vice versa so Castlebar, Ballina, Sligo, Letterkenny, Derry, etc are easily accessible by bus from Tuam.
In the other direction Galway, Shannon, Limerick, Cork and other destinations in Munster and south Leinster are conveniently accessible except for perhaps changing buses in Galway or Limerick.
Most people don't realise that Bus Eireann provide a great service to both Shannon and Knock Airports. Most if not all of their fleet travelling in both directions divert to service the airports regularly so what need is there for rail links? None whatsoever!
In addition to Tuam being well served by Bus Eireann, we also have a great local provider (Burkes) that runs return services to/from Galway several times daily. They have early morning services to the industrial estates in the city and they also service NUIG and GMIT, as well as the city centre. They even provide a 9pm service to Tuam to facilitate workers and evening-course students.
The private coach services from further north also stop in Tuam in both directions at weekends so we're actually spoiled for choice. Very few towns in the country are so well served.
So hurry up with our Greenway, it'll make Tuam an even more attractive place to live.

the existence of bus services does not prove that there is no need for a rail service. bus and rail have different markets and therefore the existence of a rail service can only be decided on it's own merrit. it could very well be the case that tuam should not have a rail service but it won't be due to the existence of bus services as many people do not use bus services as they cannot meet their needs.

Consonata · 28-02-2017 7:08pm

end of the road wrote: »

the existence of bus services does not prove that there is no need for a rail service. bus and rail have different markets and therefore the existence of a rail service can only be decided on it's own merrit. it could very well be the case that tuam should not have a rail service but it won't be due to the existence of bus services as many people do not use bus services as they cannot meet their needs.

There is also the question mark over whether Bus Services will continue indefinitely. As we see with the problems Bus Eireann is suffering at the moment, we see a reasonably popular line like Derry > Dublin, being closed due to lack of funds.

Now of course, you can easily say that this line must have not been making a profit, otherwise it wouldn't have been closed in the process, but then you have to ask yourself, what exactly is Bus Eireann supposed to function as: a Business or a Public Service.

eastwest · 28-02-2017 7:36pm

Consonata wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

the existence of bus services does not prove that there is no need for a rail service. bus and rail have different markets and therefore the existence of a rail service can only be decided on it's own merrit. it could very well be the case that tuam should not have a rail service but it won't be due to the existence of bus services as many people do not use bus services as they cannot meet their needs.

There is also the question mark over whether Bus Services will continue indefinitely. As we see with the problems Bus Eireann is suffering at the moment, we see a reasonably popular line like Derry > Dublin, being closed due to lack of funds.

Now of course, you can easily say that this line must have not been making a profit, otherwise it wouldn't have been closed in the process, but then you have to ask yourself, what exactly is Bus Eireann supposed to function as: a Business or a Public Service.

Far too high a slice of the subsidy goes to lightly used rail lines carrying a handful of pensioners on days out. If we didn't waste so much money on the wrc and the other two dead lines we could enjoy a better service on lines that are actually used, or on keeping marginal bus lines open.
But instead we chose to run almost empty trains from ennis to athenry, and there are people who think that more of the same would be a good idea.

end of the road · 28-02-2017 7:50pm

eastwest wrote: »

Far too high a slice of the subsidy goes to lightly used rail lines carrying a handful of pensioners on days out. If we didn't waste so much money on the wrc and the other two dead lines we could enjoy a better service on lines that are actually used, or on keeping marginal bus lines open.

unfortunately in our case what you have just written was exposed as folly decades ago. when mass closures happened back in the 60s and 70s nothing improved on the rest of the network. more closures do not lead to more being spent on the rest or the rest improving.

Consonata · 28-02-2017 8:11pm

end of the road wrote: »

unfortunately in our case what you have just written was exposed as folly decades ago. when mass closures happened back in the 60s and 70s nothing improved on the rest of the network. more closures do not lead to more being spent on the rest or the rest improving.

Agreed, we are seeing similar decisions being made today, as 100s kms of track are being abandoned at the saving of what, 3 million?

Grandeeod · 28-02-2017 11:32pm

cgcsb wrote: »

You know what would Really improve railway services in the west of Ireland?! Reinstate the double tracked section from portarlington to Athlone. Maybe then trains might actually run on time, Galway can have an hourly service to Dublin and the train might even be a little bit faster, current journey times are a joke. Trains to Westport would benefit into the bargain.

Portarlington to Athlone was never double track in the first place. Surprised this hasn't been corrected before now, despite Mullingar - Athlone being mentioned, which was the original mainline to Galway and Mayo.

eastwest · 01-03-2017 12:34am

end of the road wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

Far too high a slice of the subsidy goes to lightly used rail lines carrying a handful of pensioners on days out. If we didn't waste so much money on the wrc and the other two dead lines we could enjoy a better service on lines that are actually used, or on keeping marginal bus lines open.

unfortunately in our case what you have just written was exposed as folly decades ago. when mass closures happened back in the 60s and 70s nothing improved on the rest of the network. more closures do not lead to more being spent on the rest or the rest improving.

How can anyone justify a subsidy of more than €400 per passenger journey?
The reality is that (a) rail gets a disproportionate slice of the subsidy, and (b) within that, the couple of lightly used routes are using up money that could be spent on serious routes that are currently struggling.
In the case of the wrc, we need to remember that it closed because nobody was using it. Improved roads, increased car ownership and better bus services haven't made these rail routes more likely to attract a critical mass of passengers now. And if proof of that is needed, look at the difference between the numbers promised by the rail lobby and the reality.

end of the road · 01-03-2017 12:56am

eastwest wrote: »

The reality is that (a) rail gets a disproportionate slice of the subsidy, and (b) within that, the couple of lightly used routes are using up money that could be spent on serious routes that are currently struggling.

that could be spent, but won't be spent even if those lines were to go. could be and would be are 2 different things. like i said in my earlier post, no amount of closures will bring extra money for the rest of the rail network, this has long been proven. our railway was effectively creaking in many areas up until the late 90s dispite mass closures (which by the way i'm not saying there were no lines that didn't need to go) we were at huge risk of losing it all even up to then dispite everything. the railway gets the money it gets because it is part of the infrastructure of this country.

eastwest wrote: »

In the case of the wrc, we need to remember that it closed because nobody was using it.

unfortunately, given the history of how our railway has been ran, it is hard to know whether it was actually used or not, and whether it was ran in such a way to insure usage wouldn't happen. so simple stock answers of "it was closed because nobody was using it" while maybe or maybe not true, really don't mean anything because we have a history of railways been deliberately ran down and shut for reasons only the railway understand, that don't make sense to normal people.

01-03-2017 9:52pm

cgcsb wrote: »

You know what would Really improve railway services in the west of Ireland?! Reinstate the double tracked section from portarlington to Athlone. Maybe then trains might actually run on time, Galway can have an hourly service to Dublin and the train might even be a little bit faster, current journey times are a joke. Trains to Westport would benefit into the bargain.

I don't think that this line was ever double tracked, sure the bridges were constructed with a double track as that is standard practice but it was never done. Look at the line just south of Tullamore station it's in a single track cutting (with space to expand).

westtip · 01-03-2017 10:59pm

Press release From: Western Rail Trail Campaign
Date: March 1st 2017: FOR IMMEDIATE USE

• Galway council close to Green light for Greenway Study on closed railway

• Thousands signing Greenway petition on Change.org

• Greenway campaign welcomes shift change at Galway council with 16 councillors now supporting greenway

• Petition for greenway on closed railway shows Galway public opinion firmly in favour of Greenway

Western Rail Trail Campaigners have welcomed the shift change at Galway county council towards the idea of a Greenway on the closed railway route from Athenry to the county border with Mayo at Milltown.

The proposed Western Rail Trail Greenway will run on the route of the closed for forty years railway from Athenry to Collooney in Sligo. If connected to the Dublin-Galway Greenway and in Mayo to the Great Western Greenway it will form an integral part of a new long distance cycling and walking infrastructure for the West of Ireland.

In a motion proposed by Cllr Shaun Cunniffe and seconded by Cllr Donagh Killalea at the monthly council meeting on Monday, February 27th, Cllr Cunniffe proposed the council should support the idea that a Feasibility Study for the Galway section of the Western Rail Trail on the Athenry – Tuam – Milltown section of the closed railway to become a Greenway until such time as a railway if ever becomes possible. The Greenway would protect the route in public ownership.

The vote was tied 16 councillors in favour, 16 against, 5 abstentions. The Chair exercised the casting vote and voted against the motion.

Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail said “of course it is disappointing that the Greenway motion was beaten by the narrowest of margins, but we are much further ahead than we were say five years ago; The positive news is that 16 councillors now favour this tourism and job creation opportunity and see the greenway as a real way of protecting the closed railway route until such time in the distant future that railway may be possible. We now need to persuade more councillors to get this idea converted to a reality”

Quinn added, “we know Galway public opinion is in favour of a greenway on the route, we recently launched an online petition which people can still sign on

https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry?recruiter=679242500&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-welcome_email-no_msg

The petition has already attracted almost 2,000 signatures. What has surprised us most is the fact that over 30% of all signatures to date have come from people living in County Galway.

“The Petition shows an appetite for change” says Quinn, the comments being left on our petition are all very positive and we feel sure as those Galway councillors who are still cautious about this exciting tourism and leisure opportunity for the county see what ordinary people are saying they will eventually come around in favour of the greenway. Public opinion has a strong habit of changing politicians mind said Quinn, we hope the other councillors will come on board soon.

ENDS
Words: body content 427 words
Contacts: Brendan Quinn 087 4198193 Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaignemail

JCX BXC · 01-03-2017 11:02pm

I have an interesting question,

Assuming the track was usable today, how much of a loss would the services run at? Would they be more viable than say Limerick-Ballybrophy?

Sam Russell · 01-03-2017 11:21pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

I have an interesting question,

Assuming the track was usable today, how much of a loss would the services run at? Would they be more viable than say Limerick-Ballybrophy?

I think you need to forward 12 months to a period after the competing Gort to Tuam Motorways open. When there are competing fast bus/coach routes, I think there will be few if any paying passengers on any train travelling on that line.

end of the road · 01-03-2017 11:34pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think you need to forward 12 months to a period after the competing Gort to Tuam Motorways open. When there are competing fast bus/coach routes, I think there will be few if any paying passengers on any train travelling on that line.

possibly, all be it that can't be guaranteed as bus is for the most part a different market to rail. most people who would use bus would never use rail.

Del.Monte · 02-03-2017 12:28am

Got to love the accuracy of the press release - since when did the Athenry/Claremorris section close 'forty' years ago?

westtip · 02-03-2017 2:42am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Got to love the accuracy of the press release - since when did the Athenry/Claremorris section close 'forty' years ago?

Ah sure if they print it in the newspaper it must be true.....:D like its not as if it closed last week....and hey ho, not as if they are going to open in next week, can't anyway as the track will fall into the bog, can't cross tarmacadam roads, and let's face it may as well have closed a lifetime ago.

In other words life begins at 40, get over it!

eastwest · 02-03-2017 9:42am

end of the road wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think you need to forward 12 months to a period after the competing Gort to Tuam Motorways open. When there are competing fast bus/coach routes, I think there will be few if any paying passengers on any train travelling on that line.

possibly, all be it that can't be guaranteed as bus is for the most part a different market to rail. most people who would use bus would never use rail.

Not really. In fact, that's not based on the experience anywhere.
Look at the way that the main line rail service from Galway to Dublin are struggling to compete with fast, modern private bus services since the motorway opened.

Del.Monte · 02-03-2017 12:19pm

eastwest wrote: »

Not really. In fact, that's not based on the experience anywhere.
Look at the way that the main line rail service from Galway to Dublin are struggling to compete with fast, modern private bus services since the motorway opened.

I can't put my hand on the latest figures anywhere but it's my understanding that IE's Dublin/Galway service is seeing increased carryings - where's the evidence to back up your claim that they are struggling? Link please?

n97 mini · 02-03-2017 12:24pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I can't put my hand on the latest figures anywhere but it's my understanding that IE's Dublin/Galway service is seeing increased carryings - where's the evidence to back up your claim that they are struggling? Link please?

A rising tide lifts all boats, and from record falloffs during the bust aren't all modes now experiencing increases?

Del.Monte · 02-03-2017 1:52pm

n97 mini wrote: »

A rising tide lifts all boats, and from record falloffs during the bust aren't all modes now experiencing increases?

Yes, but eastwest maintains that IE are struggling to compete with the coach operators and I would like a link; otherwise it's just more 'roads are good' and 'trains are outmoded' claptrap.

Isambard · 02-03-2017 1:54pm

n97 mini wrote: »

A rising tide lifts all boats, and from record falloffs during the bust aren't all modes now experiencing increases?

all boats that aren't fatally holed.

end of the road · 02-03-2017 2:50pm

eastwest wrote: »

Not really. In fact, that's not based on the experience anywhere.
Look at the way that the main line rail service from Galway to Dublin are struggling to compete with fast, modern private bus services since the motorway opened.

a huge amount of the use of those private busses are from new users of public transport full stop, who are unlikely to use rail anyway. the amount who have switched to bus from rail is unknown but i wouldn't think it's anything near the amount of new users to public transport who use the bus services.

Muckyboots · 02-03-2017 8:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

a huge amount of the use of those private busses are from new users of public transport full stop, who are unlikely to use rail anyway.

You mean people who don't have free travel passes or who can't recoup the cost of the journey as vouched (or not) expense.

end of the road · 02-03-2017 9:03pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

You mean people who don't have free travel passes or who can't recoup the cost of the journey as vouched (or not) expense.

no, just new people who wouldn't have used public transport before. whether they are on free travel or can't recoup the cost of the journey as vouched i don't know, nor care. it's not my concern.

funnyname · 02-03-2017 10:40pm

Sorry if this has been posted before

Archive report from 1991

http://www.rte.ie/archives/2016/1107/829709-railway-tracks-removed/

cgcsb · 04-03-2017 12:39am

Grandeeod wrote: »

Portarlington to Athlone was never double track in the first place. Surprised this hasn't been corrected before now, despite Mullingar - Athlone being mentioned, which was the original mainline to Galway and Mayo.

All of Dublin-Galway line was double track. One track was removed by the great southern and western rail company (predating iarnrod eireann) to save maintenance costs.

Del.Monte · 04-03-2017 12:48am

cgcsb wrote: »

All of Dublin-Galway line was double track. One track was removed by the great southern and western rail company (predating iarnrod eireann) to save maintenance costs.

Yes, but Portarlington to Athlone was not part of the Dublin/Galway line and was always single.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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