Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

JCX BXC

It seems like it's more that you want to believe that, than it actually being the truth

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

The wrc closed because it was never viable, and because on the end there was practically nobody using it. It has nothing to do with some myth that IR doesn't want to run railways.

we will never know the actual reason it closed because CIE don't do normal reasoning. it very may well not have been viable at that time either, but where CIE and the railways are concerned whatever reason they give for something, is likely not the actual reason. effectively, even when they may be telling the truth, few will believe them because past experience will say to us not to. unfair that maybe but it is what it is
IR not wanting to run some railways because reasons is far from a myth. or at least if it is a myth, they are doing a good job at convincing people of the opposite.

murphaph

end of the road wrote: »

the harcourt street line was closed on the basis of politics. a couple of other lines also weren't closed on the basis of economics either. up the north, sectarian reasons played the part for some closures such as the derry road. you will never find this written in official documents but you will know it if you read your history.

So all the open railways are open because of economics and all the closed ones are closed because of politics? Is that your reason?

Remember I asked you the following:
Why was a closed line viable on the day of closure but not the next day? (as it is you who insists open lines are viable because they are still open)

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

The wrc closed because it was never viable, and because on the end there was practically nobody using it. It has nothing to do with some myth that IR doesn't want to run railways.

The so called WRC was closed in stages - the time honoured way that CIE have adopted for closing down lines since the mid-1960s - which results in less public outcry when full closure follows. Regular passenger services ended on the Athenry/Tuam section as far back as 1975 but the line remained in use for passenger specials, freight etc. right up until 1997.

Since that date it has been 'mothballed' as an engineer's siding and the usual disgraceful CIE standard of maintenance has ensued. To say 'there was practically nobody using it' shows a distinct lack of knowledge of the facts and you would be best going and doing some research before posting about it again.

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

The so called WRC was closed in stages - the time honoured way that CIE have adopted for closing down lines since the mid-1960s - which results in less public outcry when full closure follows. Regular passenger services ended on the Athenry/Tuam section as far back as 1975 but the line remained in use for passenger specials, freight etc. right up until 1997.

Since that date it has been 'mothballed' as an engineer's siding and the usual disgraceful CIE standard of maintenance has ensued. To say 'there was practically nobody using it' shows a distinct lack of knowledge of the facts and you would be best going and doing some research before posting about it again.

Not quite the picture, if we want to be accurate. The section from Athenry to Claremorris is, as you rightly point out, ' a siding in in engineer's possession' and is therefore not officially 'closed'. However the section north of Claremorris is defined as closed, and it closed primarily because nobody was using it. It is not abandoned, or not yet anyway, but CIE has no budget line to maintain it in any way.
But your research will tell you all that, when you do it.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

Not quite the picture, if we want to be accurate. The section from Athenry to Claremorris is, as you rightly point out, ' a siding in in engineer's possession' and is therefore not officially 'closed'. However the section north of Claremorris is defined as closed, and it closed primarily because nobody was using it. It is not abandoned, or not yet anyway, but CIE has no budget line to maintain it in any way.
But your research will tell you all that, when you do it.

well it is the picture really. you actually haven't contradicted what del.monty said.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

well it is the picture really. you actually haven't contradicted what del.monty said.

No, it's clearly not 'the picture.' The section north of Claremorris is closed. It's not mothballed, or unused, or in engineer's possession' or anything else. It is closed.
And it has zero chance of reopening.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

No, it's clearly not 'the picture.' The section north of Claremorris is closed. It's not mothballed, or unused, or in engineer's possession' or anything else. It is closed.
And it has zero chance of reopening.

but that doesn't contradict what del.monty stated as he never stated anything in relation to the section north of Claremorris. it also doesn't contradict or dispute the view that CIE ran down the whole corridor deliberately and in a way that would mean little outcry when it closed.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

No, it's clearly not 'the picture.' The section north of Claremorris is closed. It's not mothballed, or unused, or in engineer's possession' or anything else. It is closed.
And it has zero chance of reopening.

but that doesn't contradict what del.monty stated as he never stated anything in relation to the section north of Claremorris. it also doesn't contradict or dispute the view that CIE ran down the whole corridor deliberately and in a way that would mean little outcry when it closed.

The notion that IR just wants to close railways belongs firmly in the tinfoil helmet department, but let me explain the problem they have.
If you have a fixed lump of money to support public transport, and one or two lightly used lines are sucking up a hugely disproportionate amount of that pot, the only way you can balance the books is either to cut viable services in order to keep white elephant lines open, or close the aforesaid white elephants.
This is obvious to almost everybody.
Almost.

murphaph

Yep. IR are a disaster area but that fundamental truth holds.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

The notion that IR just wants to close railways belongs firmly in the tinfoil helmet department,

no it doesn't. again, limerick junction to waterford. 3 decent sized towns, clonmell especially. infrastructure slowly left to run down over decades, services slowly decreased. or the wexford line which is getting slower and slower and only had a moddist increase of service dispite a similar line, the sligo line getting a huge increase.

eastwest wrote: »

but let me explain the problem they have.
If you have a fixed lump of money to support public transport, and one or two lightly used lines are sucking up a hugely disproportionate amount of that pot, the only way you can balance the books is either to cut viable services in order to keep white elephant lines open, or close the aforesaid white elephants.
This is obvious to almost everybody.
Almost.

let me explain it as you just don't get it. even if the lightly used lines go the same "problem" will still remain. the closure of athlone mullingar was supposed to help the rest survive. the closure of rosslare to waterford was supposed to help the rest survive. the closure of limerick junction to waterford which actually has a lot of potential and the closure of the ballybroaphy branch will be supposibly to help the rest survive. then it will be on to rosslare gorey or even greystones to help the rest survive. and then the next one, and the next one.
the decades of evidence is there for all to see.

murphaph wrote: »

Yep. IR are a disaster area but that fundamental truth holds.

it doesn't as it isn't how it works in ireland.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

Regular passenger services ended on the Athenry/Tuam section as far back as 1975 but the line remained in use for passenger specials, freight etc. right up until 1997.

Anything after that was either political or religious self-indulgent, money wasting, nostalgic nonsense. After the Tuam Sugar Factory closed the only notable fright traffic was a one off, middle of the night, chemical delivery that left families living along the track wondering why it wasn't suitable for usual road haulage.
Maybe WOT's & Co can send another "special" from Claremorris to Athenry in the next year to reset the clocks and instigate a round of platform flag waving, cheesy grinning and back slapping- but it won't change the fact that the line is dead. IR don't want it. The EU wont fund it. The country can't afford it. Outside of cycling/walking loonies and train fanatics, most sensible people couldn't care less.
Why can't we agree to preserve what is left of the railway infrastructure, rebuild as much as possible of what can be rebuilt and keep the route open as a railway themed Greenway. There'll be funding for that.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

Anything after that was either political or religious self-indulgent, money wasting, nostalgic nonsense.

no it wasn't. it was keeping an asset in use for traffic that needed to use it.

Muckyboots wrote: »

After the Tuam Sugar Factory closed the only notable fright traffic was a one off, middle of the night, chemical delivery that left families living along the track wondering why it wasn't suitable for usual road haulage.

wrong. those families were glad such a dangerous chemical was brought by a safer method of transport then hugely expensive to the tax payer road haulage. absolutely correct it was brought by rail due to the huge potential danger involved should an accident happened and the better chance of managing the situation.

Muckyboots wrote: »

IR don't want it.

good for them, you won't find many who care a less what IR want or don't want and rightly so as it should have no basis on any decisian over anything. they are the operator and nothing more.
. what IR want or don't want is irrelevant and should have no basis in relation to any decisians made over the line whatever that may be.

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

Del.Monte wrote: »

Regular passenger services ended on the Athenry/Tuam section as far back as 1975 but the line remained in use for passenger specials, freight etc. right up until 1997.

Anything after that was either political or religious self-indulgent, money wasting, nostalgic nonsense. After the Tuam Sugar Factory closed the only notable fright traffic was a one off, middle of the night, chemical delivery that left families living along the track wondering why it wasn't suitable for usual road haulage.
Maybe WOT's & Co can send another "special" from Claremorris to Athenry in the next year to reset the clocks and instigate a round of platform flag waving, cheesy grinning and back slapping- but it won't change the fact that the line is dead. IR don't want it. The EU wont fund it. The country can't afford it. Outside of cycling/walking loonies and train fanatics, most sensible people couldn't care less.
Why can't we agree to preserve what is left of the railway infrastructure, rebuild as much as possible of what can be rebuilt and keep the route open as a railway themed Greenway. There'll be funding for that.

There won't be agreement because of politics. The worst thing a councillor or TD can do isn't mother-rapin or father-rapin, it's u-turnin.
So if he promised a train ten years back, that's the end of that, even if he knows that a train is the last thing we'll see in Tuam before the next ice age.

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

Del.Monte wrote: »

Regular passenger services ended on the Athenry/Tuam section as far back as 1975 but the line remained in use for passenger specials, freight etc. right up until 1997.

Anything after that was either political or religious self-indulgent, money wasting, nostalgic nonsense. After the Tuam Sugar Factory closed the only notable fright traffic was a one off, middle of the night, chemical delivery that left families living along the track wondering why it wasn't suitable for usual road haulage.
Maybe WOT's & Co can send another "special" from Claremorris to Athenry in the next year to reset the clocks and instigate a round of platform flag waving, cheesy grinning and back slapping- but it won't change the fact that the line is dead. IR don't want it. The EU wont fund it. The country can't afford it. Outside of cycling/walking loonies and train fanatics, most sensible people couldn't care less.
Why can't we agree to preserve what is left of the railway infrastructure, rebuild as much as possible of what can be rebuilt and keep the route open as a railway themed Greenway. There'll be funding for that.

There won't be agreement because of politics. The worst thing a councillor or TD can do isn't mother-rapin or father-rapin, it's u-turnin.
So if he promised a train ten years back, that's the end of that, even if he knows that a train is the last thing we'll see in Tuam before the next ice age.

Muckyboots

end of the road wrote: »

no it wasn't. it was keeping an asset in use for traffic that needed to use it..

You've nailed the Greenway argument in one.

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

You've nailed the Greenway argument in one.

What was the middle of the night chemical train to which you refer?

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

What was the middle of the night chemical train to which you refer?

You missed the quote bracket on "one off".. But the truth is that if there was regular trains with either passive chemicals or dangerous people we wouldn't be having this debate.

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

You missed the quote bracket on "one off".. But the truth is that if there was regular trains with either passive chemicals or dangerous people we wouldn't be having this debate.

There were coal and oil trains from Foynes to Ballina and these kept a lot of heavy vehicle movements off the roads. A greenway isn't going to be much use for any heavy industry wishing to establish in the region. Still keep the West for the Corncrake and the birdwatchers will keep the economy going.

CIE have also wrecked the Foynes line - head wrecking stuff.

Isambard

how many coal and oil trains a week could you reasonably expect and what would you do with the equipment and personnel the rest of the time?

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

how many coal and oil trains a week could you reasonably expect and what would you do with the equipment and personnel the rest of the time?

Why would you expect any now that the Asahi factory at Killala is gone?

Pete2k

https://m.soundcloud.com/user-962236350/kiltimagh-velorail-1

Plan for turntables at either end of the 6km from kiltimagh station as well as stopping areas which i can only assume would involve installing a short siding.
Eventual plan is to run the project from Claremorris to county line n Charlestown.

Del.Monte

I'm looking forward to it and judging by the Development man's input they will be going motorised in due course, closing in and roofing the bikes and guess what - they end up with a RAILWAY!

eastwest

Isambard wrote: »

how many coal and oil trains a week could you reasonably expect and what would you do with the equipment and personnel the rest of the time?

It's not called a 'handy number' for no reason. They'd just lean on the gate.

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

You missed the quote bracket on "one off".. But the truth is that if there was regular trains with either passive chemicals or dangerous people we wouldn't be having this debate.

There were coal and oil trains from Foynes to Ballina and these kept a lot of heavy vehicle movements off the roads. A greenway isn't going to be much use for any heavy industry wishing to establish in the region. Still keep the West for the Corncrake and the birdwatchers will keep the economy going.

CIE have also wrecked the Foynes line - head wrecking stuff.

Heavy industry in the west? Oh, aye, that'd be great, Ted.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm looking forward to it and judging by the Development man's input they will be going motorised in due course, closing in and roofing the bikes and guess what - they end up with a RAILWAY!

You latched on to the word "motorised" like it was from the lips of a prophet. The developer called it a "four wheeled bike".:D
It's basically a plan for a privatised Greenway on a 12 year lease. It does demonstrate that IR are willing to lease the track to County Councils for recreational use and sets a workable template for Galway and Sligo Council who are just a whisker away from approving respective Greenway feasibility studies.
"Game over for the railway" - as our own local prophet stated.

Isambard

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm looking forward to it and judging by the Development man's input they will be going motorised in due course, closing in and roofing the bikes and guess what - they end up with a RAILWAY!

i'm looking forward to all the videos of the bikes meeting on a single line and both guys refusing to give way

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

Heavy industry in the west? Oh, aye, that'd be great, Ted.

Oh, I know, you would prefer it kept as a reservation for the Corncrake but time moves on and the Corncrake has nearly gone the way of the Dodo.

westtip

Pete2k wrote: »

https://m.soundcloud.com/user-962236350/kiltimagh-velorail-1

Plan for turntables at either end of the 6km from kiltimagh station as well as stopping areas which i can only assume would involve installing a short siding.
Eventual plan is to run the project from Claremorris to county line n Charlestown.

This whole project is flawed on the basis the track is not even fit for velo-rail, it would require both a railway order and investment that goes well beyond the 200K already committed from Michael Rings slush fund to make this happen, the track is simply rotten, and at points badly buckled. This photo for example taken today about 1 km south of Kiltimagh closed station. Do you really think the track is going to be lifted and replaced because that is what is needed? It will of course hold up the greenway for a few more years which is what West on Track want......Stop the greenway at all costs.

Del.Monte

Velo-rail vehicles are extremely light weight and replacing a few buckled rails isn't going to break the bank. I'm looking forward to cycling through to Derry and onto Letterkenny in due course, but not on your poxy greenway.