Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Del.Monte

westtip wrote: »

And stopping for tea scones and clotted cream served by someone running their own business having come off a government scheme for the unemployed.

It even has its own Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ardsollus-and-Quin-railway-station/127013127341881

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

A bus on a dedicated bus lane, particularly a high capacity 'bendy bus' has the same impact as a light rail system, at a fraction of the cost. The buses do need to be fitted with transponders to control traffic lights, but otherwise they provide an excellent alternative to light rail.

light rail has been proven to capture the publics attention compared to slow inefficient bus solutions, so therefore a bus solution is a waste of time resources and money. dedicated bus lanes would ultimately end up costing more if they have to be built, and in the case of bendy busses they would likely be a nightmare trying to get around the likes of galway anyway. dublin got rid of theirs for a reason after all. it's an inefficient let them eat cake solution which is no alternative to light rail. a good light rail system that has priority at traffic lights (and luas should also be given priority as well at traffic lights) would transform things in the cities for the good and future proof them.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

A bus on a dedicated bus lane, particularly a high capacity 'bendy bus' has the same impact as a light rail system, at a fraction of the cost. The buses do need to be fitted with transponders to control traffic lights, but otherwise they provide an excellent alternative to light rail.

light rail has been proven to capture the publics attention compared to slow inefficient bus solutions, so therefore a bus solution is a waste of time resources and money. dedicated bus lanes would ultimately end up costing more if they have to be built, and in the case of bendy busses they would likely be a nightmare trying to get around the likes of galway anyway. dublin got rid of theirs for a reason after all. it's an inefficient let them eat cake solution which is no alternative to light rail. a good light rail system that has priority at traffic lights (and luas should also be given priority as well at traffic lights) would transform things in the cities for the good and future proof them.

Well planned bus systems nowadays have transponders that also give them priority at traffic lights, and roads can be widened to provide dedicated bus lanes at far less cost than laying rail. A well devised bus solution can move people just as well as a light rail system.

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

la good light rail system that has priority at traffic lights (and luas should also be given priority as well at traffic lights) would transform things in the cities for the good and future proof them.

You said it all in the emboldened section (my emboldenment), Galway may be a city in Irish terms, but with just under 80,000 people in the city area, in the grand scheme of things it is little more than a large town and as for light railways coming in from the outlying sattelites such as Tuam with its populaton of just under 10,000. This has always been the crux of the matter. Critical mass of population. Take a look at the bus service in towns like Luton (population 200,000) which has dedicated bus roads running around the town. What you say is right, light rail can transform cities. That is why the light rail system in Dublin is receiving the investment, and this is not a Dublin versus the west argument, its called plain common sense.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

Well planned bus systems nowadays have transponders that also give them priority at traffic lights, and roads can be widened to provide dedicated bus lanes at far less cost than laying rail. A well devised bus solution can move people just as well as a light rail system.

it really can't, hence why cities are slowly but surely moving away from relying on such an inefficient method and moving to light rail. light rail is the way to go. better, more efficient, more environmentaly friendly, and a hell of a lot more where that came from. it is also more likely to attract people to public transport. i have no doubt galway has a small market for a small scalible version, it's simply finding the route and getting it done, building it so extensions can be planned in the future when the city grows. anyway i will let yee back to the wrc now

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

light rail has been proven to capture the publics attention compared to slow inefficient bus solutions.

What captures the publics attention is a service that is frequent and reliable in terms of journey time.

That is all.

Wheels or rails don't come into the equation.

Ask any ordinary punters which makes most sense. 1 light rail line running every 15 mins, or 1 bus route running at the same frequency. They might pick the rail because it seems fancy.

Now give them the info on costs and eta to delivery of the service.

Ask them again and I'd be stunned if more than 5% choose rail.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

What captures the publics attention is a service that is frequent and reliable in terms of journey time.

That is all.

Wheels or rails don't come into the equation.

Ask any ordinary punters which makes most sense. 1 light rail line running every 15 mins, or 1 bus route running at the same frequency. They might pick the rail because it seems fancy.

Now give them the info on costs and eta to delivery of the service.

Ask them again and I'd be stunned if more than 5% choose rail.

they will pick the rail option because it's reliable and because it offers other benefits that other public transport options can't. it also has the greatist capacity and can become ultra-frequent with minimal staff costs compared to bus operation. nothing to do with being a fancy option, which it isn't. the costs of service delivery won't come into it for people because the benefits will outweigh them if the lot is implemented correctly.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What captures the publics attention is a service that is frequent and reliable in terms of journey time.

That is all.

Wheels or rails don't come into the equation.

Ask any ordinary punters which makes most sense. 1 light rail line running every 15 mins, or 1 bus route running at the same frequency. They might pick the rail because it seems fancy.

Now give them the info on costs and eta to delivery of the service.

Ask them again and I'd be stunned if more than 5% choose rail.

they will pick the rail option because it's reliable and because it offers other benefits that other public transport options can't. it also has the greatist capacity and can become ultra-frequent with minimal staff costs compared to bus operation. nothing to do with being a fancy option, which it isn't. the costs of service delivery won't come into it for people because the benefits will outweigh them if the lot is implemented correctly.

Dublin has more bike journeys than luas journeys, for example; a direct result of improved bike lanes and the Dublin bike scheme.
Apologies for deviating from the wrc.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

Dublin has more bike journeys than luas journeys, for example; a direct result of improved bike lanes and the Dublin bike scheme.

exactly, and that should be extended to the rest of the cities. no disagreement on that will come from me, all though i would prefer other public transport options to be improved first.

eastwest wrote: »

Apologies for deviating from the wrc.

yes, same from me.

hytrogen

end of the road wrote:

light rail has been proven to capture the publics attention compared to slow inefficient bus solutions, so therefore a bus solution is a waste of time resources and money. dedicated bus lanes would ultimately end up costing more if they have to be built, and in the case of bendy busses they would likely be a nightmare trying to get around the likes of galway anyway. dublin got rid of theirs for a reason after all. it's an inefficient let them eat cake solution which is no alternative to light rail. a good light rail system that has priority at traffic lights (and luas should also be given priority as well at traffic lights) would transform things in the cities for the good and future proof them.

Case in point DB bought a rake of Bendy's a while back, all yes all got das boot and shipped back for going tech so early on. Not one seen since except around Dublin airport for the long term car parkers

Muckyboots

http://connachttribune.ie/alternative-greenway-route-link-historical-sites-across-east-county-487

A Greenway on the banks of the Clare River, Abbert and Grange does not impact on the holding of landowners. "FACT" !

"An ambitious plan involving the provision of over 150 miles of greenway across the whole of East Galway has the potential to generate millions of euros for the region as well as creating hundreds of new jobs. The proposal – the culmination of 18 months of research – has already been welcomed by Transport Minister Shane Ross, with the next step likely to see it as the subject of a discussion workshop involving all relevant stakeholders.The plan envisages that the greenway routes from Ballinasloe to Galway city with spurs to North Galway will mainly be provided along rivers and State-owned lands – and, more importantly, will not be impacting on farmers’ holdings…unlike the controversial N6 route which has run up a blind alley on the back of opposition from affected landowners. This proposed route would bring tourists to some of the most historic locations in East and North Galway which would have the potential to create significant employment as well as generating a huge spend in the area.It has been devised by former senior roads engineer with Galway County Council, Martin Lavelle, who has already presented it to the Transport Minister and said that it was well received. It has also received the thumbs-up from County Galway IFA. Galway Minister for the OPW Deputy Sean Canney is supportive of the proposal and said that it would avoid any contentious situations when it comes to acquiring lands for the suggested routes. “It is definitely worth considering”, he added. There was uproar among the farming community when it was originally proposed to bring a greenway from Ballinasloe to Galway through farmland, dissecting farm holdings along the way. This proposal was eventually shelved following major opposition from farmers and the IFA. But the latest proposal would involve an alternative route taking in historical sites in the likes of Clonmacnoise, Clonfert and Aughrim along State owned lands and continuing along that vein towards Craughwell and Oranmore before arriving in the city."

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

http://connachttribune.ie/alternative-greenway-route-link-historical-sites-across-east-county-487

A Greenway on the banks of the Clare River, Abbert and Grange does not impact on the holding of landowners. "FACT" !

"An ambitious plan involving the provision of over 150 miles of greenway across the whole of East Galway has the potential to generate millions of euros for the region as well as creating hundreds of new jobs. The proposal – the culmination of 18 months of research – has already been welcomed by Transport Minister Shane Ross, with the next step likely to see it as the subject of a discussion workshop involving all relevant stakeholders.The plan envisages that the greenway routes from Ballinasloe to Galway city with spurs to North Galway will mainly be provided along rivers and State-owned lands – and, more importantly, will not be impacting on farmers’ holdings…unlike the controversial N6 route which has run up a blind alley on the back of opposition from affected landowners. This proposed route would bring tourists to some of the most historic locations in East and North Galway which would have the potential to create significant employment as well as generating a huge spend in the area.It has been devised by former senior roads engineer with Galway County Council, Martin Lavelle, who has already presented it to the Transport Minister and said that it was well received. It has also received the thumbs-up from County Galway IFA. Galway Minister for the OPW Deputy Sean Canney is supportive of the proposal and said that it would avoid any contentious situations when it comes to acquiring lands for the suggested routes. “It is definitely worth considering”, he added. There was uproar among the farming community when it was originally proposed to bring a greenway from Ballinasloe to Galway through farmland, dissecting farm holdings along the way. This proposal was eventually shelved following major opposition from farmers and the IFA. But the latest proposal would involve an alternative route taking in historical sites in the likes of Clonmacnoise, Clonfert and Aughrim along State owned lands and continuing along that vein towards Craughwell and Oranmore before arriving in the city."

So, if this isn't another piece of 'post truth' from this camp, it might solve the Dublin-Galway impasse, but it doesn't get away from the fact that (a) the State owns a strip of land from Athenry to Collooney, (b) the State has no plans to do anything with that land, and (c) using the disused rail route not only preserves it and tidies it up, it is also significantly cheaper (about a quarter of the cost) compared to buying a new strip of land and letting the existing one lie idle and overgrown. It doesn't solve the dereliction on the old rail line, the loss of heritage buildings, bridges etc, and it doesn't deliver a greenway into the centre of towns where it can form part of a commuting route for schoolchildren and workers.
Current events may well overtake much of this 'fluting around' which is designed mainly to stop the use of the rail line as a greenway. Leo Varadkar is on record as saying that the first phase of the wrc was a mistake that won't be repeated; you can't get much clearer than that. In addition, his base is not in the same area as Enda Kenny; the latter was afraid to fall out with WOT despite favouring the greenway, and never pushed for this impasse to be sorted, preferring to allow nothing to happen. Varadkar is very much in favour of a national greenway network and will ensure that this kind of blathering is not tolerated at cabinet, should he become Taoiseach.

L1011

hytrogen wrote: »

Case in point DB bought a rake of Bendy's a while back, all yes all got das boot and shipped back for going tech so early on. Not one seen since except around Dublin airport for the long term car parkers

DB effectively had them bought for them by a Minister who wanted them; but didn't get DCC onboard to ensure stops were suited.

Sam Russell

L1011 wrote: »

DB effectively had them bought for them by a Minister who wanted them; but didn't get DCC onboard to ensure stops were suited.

... or even if the buses were suited to Dublin traffic. They were bendy buses but not bendy enough - watching them try to turn onto Westland Row would have made a cat laugh - they had to wait for a gap in the traffic coming up Westland Row while holding back the traffic behind them.

I think they were the only buses that DB fitted with sick bags in the rear part.

eastwest

Sam Russell wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

DB effectively had them bought for them by a Minister who wanted them; but didn't get DCC onboard to ensure stops were suited.

... or even if the buses were suited to Dublin traffic. They were bendy buses but not bendy enough - watching them try to turn onto Westland Row would have made a cat laugh - they had to wait for a gap in the traffic coming up Westland Row while holding back the traffic behind them.

I think they were the only buses that DB fitted with sick bags in the rear part.

They're not suited to every route, but they would be a much faster and cheaper alternative to rail for Tuam Galway compared to rattling carefully across the bog via athenry.
Ireland isn't unique; these solutions work well in other countries, so why not here.
Route selection is key, using the right solution for each specific problem. A few bendy buses on the new motorway from ennis to Galway, with segregated bus lanes to bring them to the major work sites would knock spots off the train.

Sam Russell

eastwest wrote: »

They're not suited to every route, but they would be a much faster and cheaper alternative to rail for Tuam Galway compared to rattling carefully across the bog via athenry.
Ireland isn't unique; these solutions work well in other countries, so why not here.
Route selection is key, using the right solution for each specific problem. A few bendy buses on the new motorway from ennis to Galway, with segregated bus lanes to bring them to the major work sites would knock spots off the train.

Absolutely true. Buses whether bendy or not are far more flexible than a train service in low passenger number situations. A bus can maintain 100 km/hr on a motorway and divert to towns on route if required, but a train cannot.

Muckyboots

The Dublin-Galway Greenway backers won't be thanking Minister Sean Canney for his incongruous spinning of 18 months of behind the scenes hard work on behalf of a range of stakeholders. Going front page of Connaught Tribune and facilitating a half-cocked presentation to Tuam Municipal Council ( not even on the route) in what seems to be a deliberate attempt at a spoiler against the Athenry-Tuam rail proposal he has put the Dublin-Galway campaign on the defensive again. " Greenway has now become a dirty word among farming community" IFA County Chairman. So who wins?

serfboard

Muckyboots wrote: »

So who wins?

Emmm ... I'd say Sean does. Watch him get re-elected.

Muckyboots

serfboard wrote: »

Emmm ... I'd say Sean does. Watch him get re-elected.

He's a sure thing for a seat. But antagonising Galway farmers???

jmlfc

end of the road wrote: »

they will pick the rail option because it's reliable and because it offers other benefits that other public transport options can't. it also has the greatist capacity and can become ultra-frequent with minimal staff costs compared to bus operation. nothing to do with being a fancy option, which it isn't. the costs of service delivery won't come into it for people because the benefits will outweigh them if the lot is implemented correctly.

Heavy rail too expensive, why not this Cost efficient easy to setup, boost tourism, economies, lives,

http://www.tramalicante.es/page.php

Consonata

jmlfc wrote: »

Heavy rail too expensive, why not this Cost efficient easy to setup, boost tourism, economies, lives,

http://www.tramalicante.es/page.php

This.


I never understood why fast light rail couldn't be an option, especially considering the speeds at which they can travel it as opposed to diesel trains, which barely push past 60 on some IE lines. Its much cheaper too.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

The Dublin-Galway Greenway backers won't be thanking Minister Sean Canney for his incongruous spinning of 18 months of behind the scenes hard work on behalf of a range of stakeholders. Going front page of Connaught Tribune and facilitating a half-cocked presentation to Tuam Municipal Council ( not even on the route) in what seems to be a deliberate attempt at a spoiler against the Athenry-Tuam rail proposal he has put the Dublin-Galway campaign on the defensive again. " Greenway has now become a dirty word among farming community" IFA County Chairman. So who wins?

Absolutely no one, certainly not the hospitality industry in East Galway. by the way if anyone here wants to sign the change.org petition the link is here:

https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry?recruiter=679242500&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-welcome_email-no_msg

loyatemu

Consonata wrote: »

This.


I never understood why fast light rail couldn't be an option, especially considering the speeds at which they can travel it as opposed to diesel trains, which barely push past 60 on some IE lines. Its much cheaper too.

how many people live along that line in Alicante, not to mention the millions of tourists? The reopening of Ennis-Athenry was already a cut price job, it's using existing rolling stock.

To do it as light rail you would still have had to relay the line and repair all the underlying structures, but also would have had the extra expense of electrifying it and buying new stock, and it wouldn't have been able to run into Galway on the existing heavy rail line.

hytrogen

Sam Russell wrote:

Absolutely true. Buses whether bendy or not are far more flexible than a train service in low passenger number situations. A bus can maintain 100 km/hr on a motorway and divert to towns on route if required, but a train cannot.

A bus is limited to 80kph, a coach to 100kph due to their construction standards and safety testing don't forget.

hytrogen

eastwest wrote:

They're not suited to every route, but they would be a much faster and cheaper alternative to rail for Tuam Galway compared to rattling carefully across the bog via athenry. Ireland isn't unique; these solutions work well in other countries, so why not here. Route selection is key, using the right solution for each specific problem. A few bendy buses on the new motorway from ennis to Galway, with segregated bus lanes to bring them to the major work sites would knock spots off the train.

Cheaper yes in the short term, faster well have you seen the traffic along the N17 around rush hours? It won't get much faster than that unless you get the punters on it by changing people's perception of public transportation in rural areas sadly.
In the end it would be better as you say "rattling across the bog" obstruction and traffic free.

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

how many people live along that line in Alicante, not to mention the millions of tourists? The reopening of Ennis-Athenry was already a cut price job, it's using existing rolling stock.

To do it as light rail you would still have had to relay the line and repair all the underlying structures, but also would have had the extra expense of electrifying it and buying new stock, and it wouldn't have been able to run into Galway on the existing heavy rail line.

that is true, but ennis athenry isn't an example i would use for such a scheme anyway. a better example might be tuam. with a light rail system a route could be found to by-pass athenry easier then if it was heavy rail, and it can use street running in galway city. it won't happen though as i said.

hytrogen

hytrogen wrote: »

A bus is limited to 80kph, a coach to 100kph due to their construction standards and safety testing don't forget.

I've never seen any of the "express" coaches do less than 120 on the motorway.

Isambard

I suspect they have speed limiters and so would be incapable of 120

serfboard

Deleted User wrote: »

I've never seen any of the "express" coaches do less than 120 on the motorway.

That's not my experience - both as a passenger and as a car driver passing them out. I don't think I've ever seen them do over 110.

end of the road

Isambard wrote: »

I suspect they have speed limiters and so would be incapable of 120

they have speed restricters yes.