Does anyone know what the ethnic Traveller Status statement actually means?

Sleeper12 · 02-03-2017 09:27AM

If I could give the above post 10 thumbs up I would.

jimgoose · 02-03-2017 09:29AM

Aside from reinforcing Martin Collins' idea that he's Nelson Mandela, it'll make bugger-all difference to most of us. :pac:

Sleeper12 · 02-03-2017 09:30AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Going around in hot pants in January and fake tan and heels when going to the shop will always make someone stand out a bit more.

I agree with your point but the same can be said for settled girls out in the street in their pajamas at all times of the day:)

suicide_circus · 02-03-2017 09:31AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There are tribes in various parts of the world that are illiterate. Tribes that have never seen the modern world. These are also ethnic groups and government's have deliberately left them alone rather than destroy their uniqueness. Obviously these tribes can't be protected forever.

I think one piece of state interfere which dealt the traveller culture a serious blow was social welfare payments because it meant travellers were no longer reliant on their traditional crafts for which they were respected and they lost those talents and through their own cultural aversion to education, their insularity and settled prejudices they were unable to join the wider workforce en masse.

Sam Kade · 02-03-2017 09:34AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Going around in hot pants in January and fake tan and heels when going to the shop will always make someone stand out a bit more.

That would surely make the traveller men stand out alright :rolleyes:

whisky_galore · 02-03-2017 09:34AM

This ethnic status statement is a worthless sop. It won't change things one iota.
The 'us vs. them' will persist.

jimgoose · 02-03-2017 09:35AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

This ethnic status statement is a worthless sop. It won't change things one iota.
The 'us vs. them' will persist.

If anything, this will worsen it. Instead of getting into their heads that they're Irish people, like everyone else, yet slightly different, like everyone else, a lot of them will develop Last of the Mohicans Syndrome. :pac:

whisky_galore · 02-03-2017 09:38AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I think one piece of state interfere which dealt the traveller culture a serious blow was social welfare payments because it meant travellers were no longer reliant on their traditional crafts for which they were respected and they lost those talents and through their own cultural aversion to education, their insularity and settled prejudices they were unable to join the wider workforce en masse.

To be fair, the advent of plastics killed off tinsmithing and when farmers got tractors instead of horses that pretty much killed off that outlet years ago.
People have cars to go out and buy stuff, and now buying things online and getting them delivered they don't have to wait until a monthly fair to do that.

Expecting them to survive on 'traditional crafts' is about as laughable as a thatched house construction industry. It's all very nice, but no-one wants these things anymore.

gctest50 · 02-03-2017 09:40AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We're they held down by Pavee Point? How so?

Getting them to stick to their "tradional way of life" n all that ( which wasn't long collapsing )

If they were left alone ( with a little of the right sort of help ) they would probably have "evolved" business-wise

Instead paveepoint and friends seemed to have show how to skirt n avoid any responsibility

That only lasted so long and there's only a limited amount of money in skirting stuff so a good few turned to crime

The whole sorry affair is like something th UN did :

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/dec/01/haiti-cholera-outbreak-stain-on-reputation-un-says

And now it f*cked for ever

Fun times ahead

Sam Kade · 02-03-2017 09:45AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

To be fair, the advent of plastics killed off tinsmithing and when farmers got tractors instead of horses that pretty much killed off that outlet years ago.
People have cars to go out and buy stuff, and now buying things online and getting them delivered they don't have to wait until a monthly fair to do that.

Expecting them to survive on 'traditional crafts' is about as laughable as a thatched house construction industry. It's all very nice, but no-one wants these things anymore.

Imagine if we move to a cashless society, they"lo have to survive on the dole.

Sleeper12 · 02-03-2017 09:46AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I think one piece of state interfere which dealt the traveller culture a serious blow was social welfare payments because it meant travellers were no longer reliant on their traditional crafts for which they were respected and they lost those talents and through their own cultural aversion to education, their insularity and settled prejudices they were unable to join the wider workforce en masse.

I agree. It's not unlike the government or EU paying farmers to plant nothing in fields. Not having a go at farmers just saying it's not a good idea.

Look I'll always stand up for the little guy. I can't sit here a blindly say all travelers are great cos they aren't. But I can't sit here & not pull apart sweeping statements from some posters saying all travelers drink, fight, steal etc. A lot do. proportionally a lot more than settled people but the important part is not all do. I do know travelers that work full time & pay taxes. There might not be many of them but they do exist.

There is a lot of hatred here that I don't get. So many begrudge them being recognized as an ethnic group. A lot of anger about something that wont actually touch most of our lives one way or the other. The sun is shining & the sky didn't fall down overnight. Maybe it's not such a bad thing after all.

Borzoi · 02-03-2017 09:47AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Enda is expected to follow up today's historical announcement with a further one recognising the ethnicity of Corkonians.

You've mixed your stories. The travellers are being given Cork as part of this deal. Though it's not clear how the Corkonions will react.

Galwayguy35 · 02-03-2017 09:49AM

Sam Kade wrote: »

That would surely make the traveller men stand out alright :rolleyes:

No need for the eye roll, no idea where you live nor do I care but here in Galway we have a lot of travellers and it's easy to tell them apart.

And yes the men do dress different and the accent is an another giveaway.

Sleeper12 · 02-03-2017 09:50AM

Borzoi wrote: »

You've mixed your stories. The travellers are being given Cork as part of this deal. Though it's not clear how the Corkonions will react.

Or if the travelers would want it.

conorhal · 02-03-2017 10:07AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

This ethnic status statement is a worthless sop. It won't change things one iota.
The 'us vs. them' will persist.

But reinforced by a legal status that promotes the cancer that is 'identity politics'.
I'm disgusted that not a single party in the Dail had the guts to stand up to this pointless virtue signalling, just so that politcians can feel like they have 'done something', and baldly state that travellers are the same ethnicity as the rest of us and protected by the same law, that is equality, so this bill is nothing but pointless legislation for the sake of it while a whole host of crisis in this country spiral out of control.

Sleeper12 · 02-03-2017 10:13AM

conorhal wrote: »

But reinforced by a legal status that promotes the cancer that is 'identity politics'.
I'm disgusted that not a single party in the Dail had the guts to stand up to this pointless virtue signalling, just so that politcians can feel like they have 'done something', and baldly state that travellers are the same ethnicity as the rest of us and protected by the same law, that is equality, so this bill is nothing but pointless legislation for the sake of it while a whole host of crisis in this country spiral out of control.

All other EU countries have recognized Irish travelers as an ethnic group & have done so for years. All of them. We were sort of embarrassed into it. The only country not to see them as an ethnic group was their own country. Like it or not they tic all the boxes for ethnic group. Just because you don't want it to be so doesn't mean they aren't an ethnic group

The Backwards Man · 02-03-2017 10:17AM

I've had many's a dealing with travellers down through the years, some good, some not so good, same as with everybody else.

There's less than a dozen people my dog lets through my gate, three of them are postmen, two of them are travellers, none of them are curtain twitching yahoos that post on boards. Make of that what you will.

whisky_galore · 02-03-2017 10:19AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

All other EU countries have recognized Irish travelers as an ethnic group & have done so for years. All of them. We were sort of embarrassed into it. The only country not to see them as an ethnic group was their own country. Like it or not they tic all the boxes for ethnic group. Just because you don't want it to be so doesn't mean they aren't an ethnic group

Like ticking boxes...it's just another box-ticking exercise.

Like signing an online petition to make them feel good about themselves in a squishy, pc sort of way.

Roger_007 · 02-03-2017 10:27AM

Does anyone know which laws will have to be introduced or amended to enable Travellers to vindicate their new status and recognise their 'unique' culture?

Sam Kade · 02-03-2017 10:29AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No need for the eye roll, no idea where you live nor do I care but here in Galway we have a lot of travellers and it's easy to tell them apart.

And yes the men do dress different and the accent is an another giveaway.

Isn't that what I said that you could pick them out anywhere.

Mr. CooL ICE · 02-03-2017 10:32AM

Never mind. Carry on...

....... · 02-03-2017 10:54AM

This post has been deleted.

AnGaelach · 02-03-2017 10:55AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If I could give the above post 10 thumbs up I would.

Ye probably have the ten thumbs to do so, my travelling friend.

AnGaelach · 02-03-2017 11:01AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree. It's not unlike the government or EU paying farmers to plant nothing in fields. Not having a go at farmers just saying it's not a good idea.

Look I'll always stand up for the little guy. I can't sit here a blindly say all travelers are great cos they aren't. But I can't sit here & not pull apart sweeping statements from some posters saying all travelers drink, fight, steal etc. A lot do. proportionally a lot more than settled people but the important part is not all do. I do know travelers that work full time & pay taxes. There might not be many of them but they do exist.

There is a lot of hatred here that I don't get. So many begrudge them being recognized as an ethnic group. A lot of anger about something that wont actually touch most of our lives one way or the other. The sun is shining & the sky didn't fall down overnight. Maybe it's not such a bad thing after all.

Yes, we get it, there's some exceptions but the exceptions aren't the ones who we're referring to now is it? Saying black people have brown eyes doesn't become false because some of them have blue eyes, the overwhelming majority of them do have brown eyes.

You don't rewrite a rule because of the exceptions, you just accept that it is an exception.

Permabear · 02-03-2017 11:46AM

This post has been deleted.

suicide_circus · 02-03-2017 11:53AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

To be fair, the advent of plastics killed off tinsmithing and when farmers got tractors instead of horses that pretty much killed off that outlet years ago.
People have cars to go out and buy stuff, and now buying things online and getting them delivered they don't have to wait until a monthly fair to do that.

Expecting them to survive on 'traditional crafts' is about as laughable as a thatched house construction industry. It's all very nice, but no-one wants these things anymore.

I don't expect them to survive on traditional crafts now obviously but I take your point. I suppose the main difference in the traveller experience of social welfare payments compared to that of the settled community is that travellers would never have traditionally contributed by means of income tax, a much more cash in hand culture I think it's fair to say. And yet here is free cash from a state that you always attempt to keep at arms length. It remains an ambiguous relationship today and I refuse to lay the blame solely at the feet of settled society or the state. It's sad to watch a people struggle with modernity.

Sue Pa Key Pa · 02-03-2017 12:10PM

The source of the money.............. How many times must it be said that this is the single biggest reason there is distrust of travellers by the settled community?

red ears · 02-03-2017 12:19PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I've had many's a dealing with travellers down through the years, some good, some not so good, same as with everybody else.

There's less than a dozen people my dog lets through my gate, three of them are postmen, two of them are travellers, none of them are curtain twitching yahoos that post on boards. Make of that what you will.

Your dog is used to your post men and the two travellers.

02-03-2017 12:22PM

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

The source of the money.............. How many times must it be said that this is the single biggest reason there is distrust of travellers by the settled community?

Oh, so when you claimed the sky would fall in and we should turn to God to save our souls...

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

I'm done, they've won. This is is going to be the biggest gamechanger to society in Ireland for decades to come. God help us all

Your main concern was...the source of their money?

My neighbour is a carpenter who does nixers. May Jesus and the Saints have mercy on me...

whisky_galore · 02-03-2017 12:24PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I don't expect them to survive on traditional crafts now obviously but I take your point. I suppose the main difference in the traveller experience of social welfare payments compared to that of the settled community is that travellers would never have traditionally contributed by means of income tax, a much more cash in hand culture I think it's fair to say. And yet here is free cash from a state that you always attempt to keep at arms length. It remains an ambiguous relationship today and I refuse to lay the blame solely at the feet of settled society or the state. It's sad to watch a people struggle with modernity.

Everyone has to move with the times, the days of a farmer having a horse to work the land and maybe 10 or 20 cattle are gone, leaving primary school and going straight into the workplace (whatever that may be) is an extreme rarity...selling second and third rate nags, gim-cracks, second hand furniture, knock-off clothing or ripped off cds at fairs...there's only so much of a market for that.
After that, it's selling crap door-to-door that people are increasingly wary of..besides most everyone can get to a shop or online store with some sort of a guarantee if things go wrong. And beyond that we're moving into the area of hoodwinking people with bogus 'services' and hoping to get away with it.

Does anyone know what the ethnic Traveller Status statement actually means?

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