The Best 10k workouts - by Greg Mcmillan

Itziger · 14-01-2017 6:32pm

onrail wrote: »

Right; new year new goal. Going to start this week with the aim of running sub 38:30 on St. Paddy's day in Belfast.
Picked it up about 3 weeks from the end last year, breaking 40 as aimed for (39:30).

Anyone else?

I'm not sure this year to be honest. Two reasons. I've got a sore glute/hamstring that I can't shake and I think the fast and tough sessions here might really stress it, whereas, if I stick to marathon pace stuff I might get away with the strains and niggles.

Other reason is I'm aiming for Cork marathon and want to give it a real good go. By mid March, which is when the best 10ks are on, I'd want to be going long.

I'll make a call in the next week or two. Good luck with the plan. I've always said I'd like to see a variety of posters and ability give this a good go.

Itziger · 18-01-2017 8:54pm

Started on the long road to sharpness today with a 6x800 @ just under 10k pace off 90 secs. Temp of about -4/5 and a nice chilly breeze made for a challenging session but one I kinda enjoyed. Felt good to be in a structured session instead of plodding the roads as I have been doing of late. Hopefully the body stays healthy and I can get in PB or near to PB shape in 2 months time.

Anyone else having a go??

rooneyjm · 19-01-2017 1:24pm

Why not. Goal is to go sub 38 this year, pb at the moment is 39.20. First get under 39, 38.30 is 6.12 per mile so that's my target pace. Have the great Ireland run booked for the 9 th April, not a great coarse for pb's but we'll give it a go. More than 10 weeks out so I can build up to the 6 X 1 mile. Did 7 x 3 mins this week @ 6.00 min pace, next week I'll try 5 x 1km and then I've booked the Raheny 5 mile on the 29th, so that will give me a good indication of where I'm at.

After that I'll do 5x 1mile and then into the plan the following week. The plan says to do a tempo or 5k. I do a tempo most weeks, I assume this is ok.

Tigerandahalf · 19-01-2017 2:27pm

I find the 3x2 mile workout will give you a great idea of where you are at. It is a tough one but gives great confidence if you nail it 7/10 days out.

I also find the 3x1 mile a great indication for a 5k.

These are now my go to workouts before a key race.

I did the 3x2 mile at the end of last year before a race but had to bail out before the last interval.
I had a cold on and off so wasn't sure if I had enough done.
I still went sub 39.30 in the race which was the target so these are a great indicator.

Paddy1234 · 19-01-2017 9:22pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I find the 3x2 mile workout will give you a great idea of where you are at. It is a tough one but gives great confidence if you nail it 7/10 days out.

I also find the 3x1 mile a great indication for a 5k.

These are now my go to workouts before a key race.

I did the 3x2 mile at the end of last year before a race but had to bail out before the last interval.
I had a cold on and off so wasn't sure if I had enough done.
I still went sub 39.30 in the race which was the target so these are a great indicator.

What kind of pace would you recommend for these long intervals. I presume a little bit quicker than goal 10k pace allowing for the breaks? I never know how fast to run these intervals. Should you empty the tank or should you have a bit left at the end of the session. Thanks

Tigerandahalf · 19-01-2017 9:55pm

Paddy1234 wrote: »

What kind of pace would you recommend for these long intervals. I presume a little bit quicker than goal 10k pace allowing for the breaks? I never know how fast to run these intervals. Should you empty the tank or should you have a bit left at the end of the session. Thanks

Your goal race pace. It should be very hard but you should be recovering quickly afterwards and the following day be fine for another run.

For me these shouldn't be done unless you have a good base of work done including lots of slow miles, hill sprints and shorter intervals in the previous 6 weeks or so.

Remember you will be doing this session having had no taper. A few easy days before the race will bring freshness back to your legs. I find a complete rest day before race day serves me best.

Itziger · 19-01-2017 9:57pm

Paddy1234 wrote: »

What kind of pace would you recommend for these long intervals. I presume a little bit quicker than goal 10k pace allowing for the breaks? I never know how fast to run these intervals. Should you empty the tank or should you have a bit left at the end of the session. Thanks

Do you mean the 3x2 miles? It says run at goal pace. They're tough enough at that!

rooneyjm · 20-01-2017 12:43am

Paddy1234 wrote: »

What kind of pace would you recommend for these long intervals. I presume a little bit quicker than goal 10k pace allowing for the breaks? I never know how fast to run these intervals. Should you empty the tank or should you have a bit left at the end of the session. Thanks

Before you go anything go back to the top of the page and read it. "Do not try and beat the workout"

Itziger · 20-01-2017 10:31am

rooneyjm wrote: »

Before you go anything go back to the top of the page and read it. "Do not try and beat the workout"

Yep, very important. I will repeat another piece of advice from previous years. I would say, if you haven't been doing speedy stuff and if your target is not soft, then you should lead up to the 6x1 mile 'first' session. As I'm particularly rusty this year I started with 6x800's and I might do 6x1k or 6x1.2k next week. Alternatively do a 4x1 mile session before the 6x1.

Keep the thoughts coming folks.

Cartman78 · 20-01-2017 10:57am

Any more room on the 10K bandwagon?

Had decent enough success with these back in 2012 so hoping that the experience I've gained since (ie. stop being an overtraining eejit) will mean I get even more out of it this time around.

Ran 41:00 on St.Stephen's Day with a fairly conservative race strategy.

Training has gone fairly well since...have a 10K next weekend so would be hoping to go near 40 mins but won't be too disappointed if I miss out.

Plan is to race at least once a month with target races taking place in June (2) and another one in mid July.

Will give the 3 x 2 Mile a lash today I think

jamule · 20-01-2017 11:08am

I'll be going for <38.30 the end of april. The 3*2 will be getting a rattle the week before the taper week.

It will be the 3rd time doing it, went too fast last time and bet the work out. Missed out on target by 14secs, lesson learned.

Concentrating on endurance for the next few weeks. Doing a little speed work att the momment, not sure how much though.

Cartman78 · 20-01-2017 12:44pm

Cartman78 wrote: »

Will give the 3 x 2 Mile a lash today I think

Actually what's the recommended interval period for the 3 x 2 Mile workout?

I'm guessing 2 mins minimum

adrian522 · 20-01-2017 12:47pm

5 mins recovery jog, it's in the very first post.

Cartman78 · 20-01-2017 12:57pm

adrian522 wrote: »

5 mins recovery jog, it's in the very first post.

D'oh.....dunno how i missed that...thanks for clarifying

Itziger · 22-01-2017 5:37pm

Folks, read the whole thing. I believe the rec. time was changed at one stage. Is 5 mins a bit too much? (I won't be asking that question the day I have to do the session so I'll ask it now!)

BeepBeep67 · 22-01-2017 8:08pm

Be careful of just throwing in the 3 x 2M session 1 - 2 weeks from a 10k if it hasn't been part of the McMillan build up or something similar, you could leave yourself overstressed with inadequate recovery in time for your race.

Tigerandahalf · 22-01-2017 8:52pm

I did 1/2 mile recovery for the 3x2 mile session. Don't stick to the plan rigidly. Pull out what you need and modify the recoveries if it suits you better. I would have jogged the 1/2 mile recovery slowly so upto 5 minutes wouldn't be an issue.

Itziger · 22-01-2017 9:02pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I did 1/2 mile recovery for the 3x2 mile session. Don't stick to the plan rigidly. Pull out what you need and modify the recoveries if it suits you better. I would have jogged the 1/2 mile recovery slowly so upto 5 minutes wouldn't be an issue.

Well edited!! I was going to say, That must be an error obviously. Completely contradicts the advice in the body of the text. Besides being impossible to do!!

3x2 miles @ 5k pace....... with 200m jog rec.

Mo, fancy a session?

Tigerandahalf · 22-01-2017 9:24pm

Itziger wrote: »

Well edited!! I was going to say, That must be an error obviously. Completely contradicts the advice in the body of the text. Besides being impossible to do!!

3x2 miles @ 5k pace....... with 200m jog rec.

Mo, fancy a session?

Indeed! I had read the week 7 workout on the first post of this thread and it confused me. It must be one of the other workouts he adds in.

Tigerandahalf · 22-01-2017 9:38pm

I did another one of the workouts he recommends to supplement the training for the 10k race - 10x400m with 400m recovery.

I had to do this along a road as my normal route was full of buggies and kids on scooters.

It went well. Around 5.45 mile pace (6.20 mile pace was my 10k pace in last race ).It's the first interval stuff I have done in a month. But the consistent easy running I have done over the last month served me well in getting it done.

I have no target race at the moment as not always getting a full sleep at night with kid's feeds etc. so I will see. But I think these workouts will definitely aid me and if I feel good in the next month or so I might try a 5k/10k race.

Elemonator · 22-01-2017 9:40pm

Anyone here ever tried using kettle bells? I'm by no means a long distance runner but I found they helped massively for my cardio endurance.

Hope this helps.

rooneyjm · 22-01-2017 10:39pm

Elemonator wrote: »

Anyone here ever tried using kettle bells? I'm by no means a long distance runner but I found they helped massively for my cardio endurance.

Hope this helps.

That's a bit vague, what are u going with them, how long, how heavy?

v6e5qzawyrc3jn · 24-01-2017 9:18pm

This post has been deleted.

Tigerandahalf · 24-01-2017 9:37pm

Kohen Clever Tanner wrote: »

Hands up!!

Building to a 10km in April, loosely using a simple HH plan. The plan calls for intervals every second week, alternating with tempo runs, so this 8 week build seemed to fit nicely in its place.

Background is a 41:XX pb, and hoping to go sub 40 a goal sub 41 b goal.

Week 1 (banged in 1600m to the Garmin, no way my mind could deal with a 1610m repeat!).
Paces:
1. 03:54
2. 03:53
3. 03:57
4. 03:55
5. 04:00
6. 04:00

Really struggled on the final 2. These sessions are going to be tough!! Held back on the first 2, not trying to "beat" the 10km pace as noted.

Difficult to know your paces as most people work in miles.

But is that an average of 4 min/km for each 1600m? If it is that should see you go sub 40.

v6e5qzawyrc3jn · 24-01-2017 9:46pm

This post has been deleted.

rooneyjm · 25-01-2017 1:25am

Fairly consistent work. I'd be confident you'll go sub 40

ariana` · 26-01-2017 1:52pm

Are there any equivalent key workouts to build up to a 5k? Or could one adapt these works by halving the distances?

RayCun · 26-01-2017 1:56pm

ariana` wrote: »

Are there any equivalent key workouts to build up to a 5k? Or could one adapt these works by halving the distances?

For a 5k equivalent, you could do something like
10 x 400 @ 5k pace
8 x 600 @ 5k pace
6 x 800 @ 5k pace
5 x 1k @ 5k pace
4 x 1200 @ 5k pace
3 x 1600 @ 5k pace

and alternate those with tempo runs
10 minute tempo
15 minute tempo
10 + 10 tempos with 5 minutes easy in between
20 minute tempo (repeat from then on)

onrail · 26-01-2017 2:15pm

First proper session last Sunday with the aim of being race fit for Paddy's Day:

Lap pace min/km
1 03:52
2 03:49
3 03:45
4 03:42
5 03:43
6 03:43
avg 03:45

1500m intervals with 400m jogging recoveries and 2 minute standing recovery after lap 3. Bit of a cop-out session to be honest, but hopefully on the track for Sub 39.

ariana` · 26-01-2017 3:07pm

RayCun wrote: »

For a 5k equivalent, you could do something like
10 x 400 @ 5k pace
8 x 600 @ 5k pace
6 x 800 @ 5k pace
5 x 1k @ 5k pace
4 x 1200 @ 5k pace
3 x 1600 @ 5k pace

and alternate those with tempo runs
10 minute tempo
15 minute tempo
10 + 10 tempos with 5 minutes easy in between
20 minute tempo (repeat from then on)

Thanks

I'll give those a go. It's probably better placed in random questions but if 7:55-8:00 is my 5k pace. Would 8:30 be sufficient for tempo or should i be aiming for 8:15-8:20?

RayCun · 26-01-2017 3:17pm

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks I'll give those a go. It's probably better placed in random questions but if 7:55-8:00 is my 5k pace. Would 8:30 be sufficient for tempo or should i be aiming for 8:15-8:20?

About 8:25/mile, that's the fastest you could run for an hour

Itziger · 08-02-2017 9:53am

Folks, I'm looking to get a bit of much needed zip into the legs. Was thinking of trying something like the following today. Does it sound ok?? Alternatives?

8x200@3k race pace (Admittedly I don't know what 3k race pace actually is, but you get the idea......)
6x400@5k pace
8x200@3k pace.

Ceepo · 08-02-2017 10:39am

Itziger wrote: »

Folks, I'm looking to get a bit of much needed zip into the legs. Was thinking of trying something like the following today. Does it sound ok?? Alternatives?

8x200@3k race pace (Admittedly I don't know what 3k race pace actually is, but you get the idea......)
6x400@5k pace
8x200@3k pace.

What is your current per mile race pace, or have you done any races lately?

Itziger · 08-02-2017 11:34am

Ceepo wrote: »

What is your current per mile race pace, or have you done any races lately?

Ceepo, haven't done a race in a long while I'm afraid. (I can't count the snowy/icy 5k I did in Belgium last month or the "Beer Mile" I did two hours later!)

My 10k pb is 36.48 and if I can get in that shape again I'd be very happy. I have a flat 10k in mid March, 3rd Sunday, I think. Second half of 2016 was difficult with illness and injuries and I'm finding the getting back in form a bit of a struggle but I am willing to stick at it. If the body holds up I'm hoping to do 2 sessions a week. Say short stuff like outlined above one day and the longer mile or 2 mile reps the other day (Saturdays). Long Easy on Sunday and a couple of rec jogs in between.

Ceepo · 08-02-2017 11:55am

Itziger wrote: »

Ceepo, haven't done a race in a long while I'm afraid. (I can't count the snowy/icy 5k I did in Belgium last month or the "Beer Mile" I did two hours later!)

My 10k pb is 36.48 and if I can get in that shape again I'd be very happy. I have a flat 10k in mid March, 3rd Sunday, I think. Second half of 2016 was difficult with illness and injuries and I'm finding the getting back in form a bit of a struggle but I am willing to stick at it. If the body holds up I'm hoping to do 2 sessions a week. Say short stuff like outlined above one day and the longer mile or 2 mile reps the other day (Saturdays). Long Easy on Sunday and a couple of rec jogs in between.

As a suggestion I would go with a session like

12 x 200 at 40/43 off 45 sec rest.

If you are struggling to hold that pace then split the session into 2 sets of 6 x 200 with 3 min recovery between sets.

You could progress this session up to 20 x 200 over a few weeks

Itziger · 08-02-2017 7:19pm

What in the name of God was I thinking posting the suggested workout above!? Instead did Ceepo's 12x200 and that was enough for now.................. Did em all in about 40 secs. I was starting and stopping the watch at 200m line and finish, so not 100% accurate. About 140 metre jog between. The track is 333mts in lane 1, i did em in lane 4. The Garmin was measuring the 200 at 205 or 6.

v6e5qzawyrc3jn · 08-02-2017 8:31pm

This post has been deleted.

Ceepo · 09-02-2017 10:32am

Kohen Clever Tanner wrote: »

Workout 2 (didn't get out last week to do this, but have a few spare weeks in my plan, so on track)

10-12 x 400m Run the 400m repeats at 5K race pace; 200m jog between

lap m:ss
1 1.29 (*avg)
2 1.22
3 1.34
4 1.31
5 1.30
6 1.30
7 1.32
8 1.33
9 1.32
10 1.29
11 1.31
12 1.37

Clearly struggled with consistency a bit more this week, would be nice to get these sessions done on a track.

*My Garmin (or likely me bring silly) decided to set the first lap as 0.4m not 0.4km, so first lap was long (took the avg pace for calculating a 400m time above). And stopped for rest 1 as i set the watch again for the remaining 11. Probably made me less consistent.

What happened on the last one. 1.37.

With 1.22 been the fastest, that's a huge difference.
Do you do these reps on an out and back type situation or just purely of the Garmin ?.

Imo you should do these as an out and back if you don't have access to a track.
You just need to measure the distance once.
You can then do the repeat this session may times over the weeks and months ahead.
You can then compare session as you have removed a variable.
It will be easier to track progress that way.

Ceepo · 09-02-2017 10:33am

Itziger wrote: »

What in the name of God was I thinking posting the suggested workout above!? Instead did Ceepo's 12x200 and that was enough for now.................. Did em all in about 40 secs. I was starting and stopping the watch at 200m line and finish, so not 100% accurate. About 140 metre jog between. The track is 333mts in lane 1, i did em in lane 4. The Garmin was measuring the 200 at 205 or 6.

Did you think they were going to be easy ? Lol

Itziger · 09-02-2017 1:33pm

Ceepo wrote: »

Did you think they were going to be easy ? Lol

I know right!! I think like a lot of ould fellas who only do distance running I thought, hey, 200mts that's nothing. Twelve of the things was plenty. I jogged 6k home afterwards and it could have been 8 but I was feeling a bit weak in the head and legs so I hopped on a bus for the last bit!!!!

Oh, the shame (and the smell).

sideswipe · 09-02-2017 2:03pm

Starting back into these with 6x1 mile tomorrow. Helped me go sub 40 for the first time last year so hope to go sub 39 this year.
What are people doing with regards to long runs? I'm going for 10-16 mile as per KC's advice earlier in the thread.

Tigerandahalf · 09-02-2017 2:16pm

sideswipe wrote: »

What are people doing with regards to long runs? I'm going for 10-16 mile as per KC's advice earlier in the thread.

I didn't go much above regular 10 mile runs with I think one or two 12 milers at most.

Once you have a good base you should be fine.

I find short steep hill repeats a great workout too. Really works the anaerobic capacity. Need to be fit for them though. I normally do x10 but if I'm not 100% it is too hard a session to complete. I would do these close to max.

I alternated between hill intervals one week and the next speed endurance intervals like 400m/800m upwards.

v6e5qzawyrc3jn · 09-02-2017 9:32pm

This post has been deleted.

Itziger · 12-02-2017 3:20pm

This week's excuse: The Drink. Beer, wine, whiskey the night before with a visiting Scottish lad. Not pissed out of my brain but enough for a fella my age to notice it the morning after.
This week's session: 6x1 mile (finally!!, 5 weeks from goal 10k)
So, with excuse safely stashed I head out for this number. Given that I only managed 5 of the 6x1k the previous week, I was glad to get it done. I did all 6 and even though the pace went a bit North of target, I was happy overall. First one was 5.53 mile and the last was 6.04. You get the picture.
On balance then, even though there's a good bit to do I think I can get near to pb shape in 5 weeks. I'm not overly bothered but I would like to get in shape if nothing else.
Will hopefully continue with 200's or 400's midweek. How are the rest of ye going?

Tigerandahalf · 12-02-2017 8:11pm

Itziger wrote: »

This week's excuse: The Drink. Beer, wine, whiskey the night before with a visiting Scottish lad. Not pissed out of my brain but enough for a fella my age to notice it the morning after.
This week's session: 6x1 mile (finally!!, 5 weeks from goal 10k)
So, with excuse safely stashed I head out for this number. Given that I only managed 5 of the 6x1k the previous week, I was glad to get it done. I did all 6 and even though the pace went a bit North of target, I was happy overall. First one was 5.53 mile and the last was 6.04. You get the picture.
On balance then, even though there's a good bit to do I think I can get near to pb shape in 5 weeks. I'm not overly bothered but I would like to get in shape if nothing else.
Will hopefully continue with 200's or 400's midweek. How are the rest of ye going?

That's a great session to get done. I think your pb is in the 36s.

Though I think from reading a previous post of yours speed isn't an issue for you. Your half is 1.19? But you haven't gone sub 3?

All said though you look bang in form for a good race.

Re myself my problem is getting enough sleep with young kids. I am getting enough runs in but am always tired for interval type stuff. When I do them my immune system gets hit and the following day I am down with a sneeze or runny nose.

I did get in an 800m x10 session at about 5.55 pace a couple of weeks back but no intervals or hill sprints since. I am getting anything from 5 to 7 hours of broken sleep with a couple of feeds during the night so a bit frustrating at the moment.

I'm still getting good mileage in so hoping that once the sleep improves a month of good work will have me in shape.

Edit 800m x5. Knew it couldn't be that good.

Itziger · 12-02-2017 9:39pm

I thought 800x10 was some session alright!! Tiger, hang in there, you'd be surprised how fast the years go with smallies. I have 4 kids but the youngest now is 9. I was a fat lazy bastid for most of the kids' younger years so lack of sleep didn't affect training. There wasn't any training!
As for PBs. I do have a Half of 1.19 but it's not a reflection of my ability - it was a lovely downhill route nearly the whole way. I count 1.22 as my best Half time, genuinely. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if I can dip under the 36.48 pb in March for 10k but sure if you don't have something to aim for it gets boring.

Itziger · 15-02-2017 8:29pm

Midweek effort to get some speed in the legs: 14x200 all in 40 secs. with about 140 jog rec. 5.5 k cool down run home. Felt a bit woozy again even if I'd had a recovery Latte Machiato drink. I know.
Unlike last week though there was no bus to bring me up the drag home. I walked for a bit and then felt better and jogged the last 1.5k. I feel there's a bit of form coming. These 2 speedier sessions a week are bringing me on as you'd expect. Don't know if the old body would stand much more than 6 weeks of it though.

Itziger · 18-02-2017 2:06pm

Saturday again. Less beer, wine and whiskey than last Friday and a beauty of a day. Went to a track. Delusional thinking still operating so I thought I might try 5x2k.
Hehe. That didn't last too long! Did 2x2k and 3x1.5 The 2ks were supposed to be in 7.20 and they went well enough time wise but the effort was costing me a lot . Second one I forgot or failed to press stop button and let it go on for about 5 secs too long (just in case there are any Strava warriors reading this!!) Anyway, then turned to 1,500 cos a) I was shagged and b) the 1,500 metre line is marked on the track. Was also working hard on these to keep the pace in and around 3.40km.
So, the conclusion is the same as last few weeks. Work, plenty of it, to be done but all hope is not lost. 4 weeks to target 10k.

v6e5qzawyrc3jn · 20-02-2017 9:05pm

This post has been deleted.

Itziger · 23-02-2017 12:33pm

Well, it would be cowardly to stop updating now. This is proving tough this year, tougher than other years I think. Today I had a go at the 1x2mile+4x1mile workout. Did the two miler in just under 12 minutes. The single miles were headwind/tailwind and went as follows: 5.56, 6.07, 6.01 and 6.12. While 2 and 4 there were into a stiff breeze they are still a bit slow, not to mention number 3 which was with the wind. Funny thing about that 3rd one was it did feel easier and I think I relaxed a bit too much in the middle. Anyway, that is where we are. PB seems unlikely, in fact if I were a horse they probably wouldn't send me to Cheltenham. "Lookit, he's training away, just not lighting up the gallops. We'll have him scoped, but right now I wouldn't be looking at Cheltenham."

The Best 10k workouts - by Greg Mcmillan

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