Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Scotland vs Ireland, 4th Feb 2017, Murrayfield, 2:25, RTÉ 2

1…3233353738…57

Comments

  • #1022
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Kanrith wrote: »
    Oh, guess I have to look back at it, just my initial impression was that it was Heaslip as I saw him lying there pretty motionless. Either way, pretty frustrating penalty after working our way into the lead.
    Heaslip did give away two penalties. Not sure which ones they were. In total we only gave away seven, so at least our discipline is consistent.

    I'm not going to lambast whoever gave up that penalty at the end. They had the ball and we weren't going to win the game without it. So desparate times and all that.

    The box kick with five minutes to go was just poor. Murray maybe too tired, but it was not possible to contest and it just gave possession away. But even then, that's not what lost us the match. We didn't have an answer to Scotland being offside and/or in our faces meaning it was extremely difficult to get the ball out to the wings.


  • #1023
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Heaslip easily Irelands MotM and was effectively captain given Best went completely missing. Kearney and Murray best of the backs even if Murray wasn't at his best.

    Jackson did well but is a limited player who can't see enough around him to exploit space.

    Given our line out woes and how completely anonymous Henderson was wed have been much better off with Ryan.

    Ringrose isn't Payne and needs to learn to provide direction outside him. Was quiet in the first half. Henshaw went well at 12 going forward.

    No one had a great game though some good performances. Zebo had his worst performance of an otherwise brilliant season. Bowe shouldn't have been in the 23 but I guess no one has done enough to replace him.

    Toner has to take a lot of blame for failing with the line out calls.

    Séan O'Brien was effective at everything bar the breakdown. We stood off as a tactic and it didn't work. The tackle rules really prevented us from holding guys up at all. Our lack of aggressive turnovers was poor. Stander was largely one dimensional bar one effective carry.

    I'm incredibly disappointed but a French win here would cheer me up substantially.

    Sexton available and we'd have won that with a BP. Jackson just too limited.


  • #1024
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,006 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Heaslip easily Irelands MotM and was effectively captain given Best went completely missing. Kearney and Murray best of the backs even if Murray wasn't at his best.

    Jackson did well but is a limited player who can't see enough around him to exploit space.

    Given our line out woes and how completely anonymous Henderson was wed have been much better off with Ryan.

    Ringrose isn't Payne and needs to learn to provide direction outside him. Was quiet in the first half. Henshaw went well at 12 going forward.

    No one had a great game though some good performances. Zebo had his worst performance of an otherwise brilliant season. Bowe shouldn't have been in the 23 but I guess no one has done enough to replace him.

    Toner has to take a lot of blame for failing with the line out calls.

    Séan O'Brien was effective at everything bar the breakdown. We stood off as a tactic and it didn't work. The tackle rules really prevented us from holding guys up at all. Our lack of aggressive turnovers was poor. Stander was largely one dimensional bar one effective carry.

    I'm incredibly disappointed but a French win here would cheer me up substantially.

    Sexton available and we'd have won that with a BP. Jackson just too limited.

    So you said twice you believe Jackson is a limited player. Why do you believe that to be the case?


  • #1025
    Kanrith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Kanrith


    Thought Kearney had a decent enough match, looks more incisive this season. Ringrose took a while to warm up in the match but to be fair, it was his first six nations match. Furlong looked pretty good too in open play and in the scrum. Collective lapses in the lineout and in defence really cost us.


  • #1026
    Wang Kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 361 ✭✭Wang Kerr


    bilston wrote: »
    Yeah I thought he was totally anonymous!

    Almost as anonymous as Gilroy today


  • Advertisement
  • #1027
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bilston wrote: »
    So you said twice you believe Jackson is a limited player. Why do you believe that to be the case?

    Scotland were repeatedly offside with numbers up fast and a very wide defensive line. There were countless options to play in behind them and vary it up. The one kick through he put along the deck and Hogg jumped into touch, should have been doing that all match.

    He stood too deep and passed too deep giving our carriers little to work off. It really showed with Henderson often taking the ball from 10 and having to pass with little run on space.

    He suffers from the same general lack of awareness as Madigan. He is miles off a fit Sexton, as much as I like him as a player and would wish for more from him.


  • #1028
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    bilston wrote: »
    You've never rated him? Strange

    Anyway he might be back next week, should definitely be back for France.

    I'll take that back.
    He is actually a superb player however he has a big target on his back that makes him a big liability for both Ireland and leinster.


  • #1029
    aled
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 229 ✭✭aled


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Heaslip easily Irelands MotM and was effectively captain given Best went completely missing. Kearney and Murray best of the backs even if Murray wasn't at his best.

    Jackson did well but is a limited player who can't see enough around him to exploit space.

    Given our line out woes and how completely anonymous Henderson was wed have been much better off with Ryan.

    Ringrose isn't Payne and needs to learn to provide direction outside him. Was quiet in the first half. Henshaw went well at 12 going forward.

    No one had a great game though some good performances. Zebo had his worst performance of an otherwise brilliant season. Bowe shouldn't have been in the 23 but I guess no one has done enough to replace him.

    Toner has to take a lot of blame for failing with the line out calls.

    Séan O'Brien was effective at everything bar the breakdown. We stood off as a tactic and it didn't work. The tackle rules really prevented us from holding guys up at all. Our lack of aggressive turnovers was poor. Stander was largely one dimensional bar one effective carry.

    I'm incredibly disappointed but a French win here would cheer me up substantially.

    Sexton available and we'd have won that with a BP. Jackson just too limited.
    Not sure I agree Venjur. Thought the Murray Jackson partnership did not combine. I find Kearneys indecision headwrecking. He simply cant decide who to tackle.

    I cant believe you pick out Toner for poor calls. If you look back at it Rory simply did not hit the areas he should have.

    Bottom line we deserved to lose. It was a ****e game plan and we suffered for it. And we picked Tommy Bowe for the bench. Reality please


  • #1030
    Quint2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Heaslip easily Irelands best player? Christ...


  • #1031
    1eg0a3xv7b82of
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    heaslip being irelands motm is laughable, everyone knows it was the other leinster part time model roberto kearney.


  • Advertisement
  • #1032
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,820 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    I wonder will Jack Conan be brought in. He would certainly offer pace off of the back of the scrum.

    While Heaslip is a safe pair of hands (makes very few handling errors) he always receives the ball in a static position.

    You could say the same for a lot of the Irish players.

    A lot of people are criticising Bowe but he was the one player who ran onto the ball at pace. Granted the ball got knocked on but he offers something that none of the other backline players offer. Though if Adam Byrne is brought in it could be the end of a great career for him.

    Looking at France here. If they get their act together and become more organised and cut out the silly errors they will be back. Some of the offloading and running into space is great to see.


  • #1033
    swiwi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Heaslip easily Irelands best player? Christ...

    In fairness to Venjur he's usually the first to stick up for some of shít that is thrown Heaslips way. So just sticking to his guns. But it was much poorer from Heaslip today than what he showed in autumn. Not Irelands motm today


  • #1034
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Some absolutely crazy knee jerk histeria here (though not from reputable posters I think). Overall, the selection was correct, played well - but were doing tge wrong thing. And Scot were good, and deserved their win.

    Rob - 8
    Earlsie - 7
    Ringrose - 6
    Henshaw - 7
    Zebo - 7
    Jackson - 8
    Murray - 8
    McGrath - 7
    Best - 6
    Furlong - 7
    Toner - 7
    Hendie - 5
    Stander - 6
    O'Brien - 8
    Heaslip - 7

    So nothing much wrong really, except Hendie who had a bad day. Would like to see Dillane start Italy maybe. Jackson was fine - and certainly a better option for the duration of this 6N than Jonny. Whether declared 'fit' or not, I just wont believe he is truly fit and so remains a liability until he puts together a string of 80 minute games for Leinster. Rob put to bed any talk of him not starting the rest of thus tourney.

    So we come to the guy who truly had the bad day :

    Schmidt - 4.

    Pains me to say it, but Schmidty really got this one wrong today. Talk of Schmidt out however, still remains nonsense. It was just a rare miscue from him -

    Sh(m)i(d)t happens.


  • #1035
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Just praying Sexton will be ready to go for France.


  • #1036
    aled
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 229 ✭✭aled


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Heaslip easily Irelands best player? Christ...
    Think what was hard to identify was who did actually play well. For me SOB, nobody else


  • #1037
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Hope Joe isn't too conservative. Scots are very beatable.

    But I suspect it will be Irlsh brawn, with 30+ box kicks thrown in, v Scottish flair.
    tayto lover wrote: »
    Why does Murray kick possession away so often?

    My preview before the game. Unfortunately, same preview applies for all the matches.

    Joe has a fetish for kicking. It's one of his core tenets.


  • #1038
    aled
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 229 ✭✭aled


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Some absolutely crazy knee jerk histeria here (though not from reputable posters I think). Overall, the selection was correct, played well - but were doing tge wrong thing. And Scot were good, and deserved their win.

    Rob - 8
    Earlsie - 7
    Ringrose - 6
    Henshaw - 7
    Zebo - 7
    Jackson - 8
    Murray - 8
    McGrath - 7
    Best - 6
    Furlong - 7
    Toner - 7
    Hendie - 5
    Stander - 6
    O'Brien - 8
    Heaslip - 7

    So nothing much wrong really, except Hendie who had a bad day. Would like to see Dillane start Italy maybe. Jackson was fine - and certainly a better option for the duration of this 6N than Jonny. Whether declared 'fit' or not, I just wont believe he is truly fit and so remains a liability until he puts together a string of 80 minute games for Leinster. Rob put to bed any talk of him not starting the rest of thus tourney.

    So we come to the guy who truly had the bad day :

    Schmidt - 4.

    Pains me to say it, but Scmidty really got this one wrondg today. Talk of Schmidt out however, still remains nonsense. It was just a rare miscue from him -

    Sh(m)i(d)t happens.
    Excellent analysis. We were brilliant. I think all the players should get a 10 and Joe an 11. Go you


  • #1039
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Nathanael Great Kangaroo wrote: »
    heaslip being irelands motm is laughable, everyone knows it was the other leinster part time model roberto kearney.

    Drop the provincial BS


  • #1040
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,061 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Heaslip easily Irelands MotM and was effectively captain given Best went completely missing. Kearney and Murray best of the backs even if Murray wasn't at his best.

    Jackson did well but is a limited player who can't see enough around him to exploit space.

    Given our line out woes and how completely anonymous Henderson was wed have been much better off with Ryan.

    Ringrose isn't Payne and needs to learn to provide direction outside him. Was quiet in the first half. Henshaw went well at 12 going forward.

    No one had a great game though some good performances. Zebo had his worst performance of an otherwise brilliant season. Bowe shouldn't have been in the 23 but I guess no one has done enough to replace him.

    Toner has to take a lot of blame for failing with the line out calls.

    Séan O'Brien was effective at everything bar the breakdown. We stood off as a tactic and it didn't work. The tackle rules really prevented us from holding guys up at all. Our lack of aggressive turnovers was poor. Stander was largely one dimensional bar one effective carry.

    I'm incredibly disappointed but a French win here would cheer me up substantially.

    Sexton available and we'd have won that with a BP. Jackson just too limited.
    sorry, but no way. That was one of Heaslips poorer games in green, he offered nothing first half and whether we like it nor not he made bad mistakes second half.

    I don't see how you can say Stander was one dimensional and then say SOB was effective. A bit of double standards there I reckon. I think SOB and Stander dragged us into the game second half, Stander one of few Irish forwards to bring the ball in the right direction.

    I am not at all surprised to see attempts to pin this loss on this loss on Jackson but really the loss had nothing to do with 10.

    We'd have won that game if our pack had turned up in the first half. They didn't and left us with a mountain to climb.


  • #1041
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    aled wrote: »
    Not sure I agree Venjur. Thought the Murray Jackson partnership did not combine. I find Kearneys indecision headwrecking. He simply cant decide who to tackle.

    I cant believe you pick out Toner for poor calls. If you look back at it Rory simply did not hit the areas he should have.

    Bottom line we deserved to lose. It was a ****e game plan and we suffered for it. And we picked Tommy Bowe for the bench. Reality please
    Hard to really comment on Murray and Jackson. Scotland kept us from getting the ball to our outside backs. We were using one-off runners to try and open them up a bit, but they kept us on the back foot at the breakdown meaning Paddy didn't get much anyway. Ringrose got the ball only 13 times, which is pretty shocking for an outside centre. Henshaw got it twice as much but Earls only got it eight times.


  • Advertisement
  • #1042
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    aled wrote: »
    Excellent analysis. We were brilliant. I think all the players should get a 10 and Joe an 11. Go you

    Thank you.


  • #1043
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    aled wrote: »
    Excellent analysis. We were brilliant. I think all the players should get a 10 and Joe an 11. Go you

    Considering the previous conversations we've had this is a very stupid post. If you can't add to the discussion don't bother.


  • #1044
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Rightwing wrote: »
    My preview before the game. Unfortunately, same preview applies for all the matches.

    Joe has a fetish for kicking. It's one of his core tenets.

    You said 30+ box kicks, do you know how many there were, care to guess?

    Do you know how many we take in comparison to other sides? Because you'd assume we do it more often than others reading your post...


  • #1045
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    awec wrote: »
    sorry, but no way. That was one of Heaslips poorer games in green, he offered nothing first half and whether we like it nor not he made bad mistakes second half.

    I don't see how you can say Stander was one dimensional and then say SOB was effective. A bit of double standards there I reckon. I think SOB and Stander dragged us into the game second half, Stander one of few Irish forwards to bring the ball in the right direction.

    I am not at all surprised to see attempts to pin this loss on this loss on Jackson but really the loss had nothing to do with 10.

    We'd have won that game if our pack had turned up in the first half. They didn't and left us with a mountain to climb.

    I'm not pinning the loss on Paddy, but he didnt get us into the right areas of the park or direct our forwards.

    Stander has a different role to Sean so it's not dual standards. Stander was setup to carry and failed to make up ground. Similar performance as he had against Leinster in October.

    Heaslip didn't have one of his best games but he carried more effectively than our 6 or 7 and he was incredibly vocal in defence. He was there in support of everything going forward.

    Also Murray was right to box kick at the end. We needed to be playing in their half / 22 whether in possession or not with only 2.5 mins to go.


  • #1046
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    awec wrote: »
    sorry, but no way. That was one of Heaslips poorer games in green, he offered nothing first half and whether we like it nor not he made bad mistakes second half.

    I don't see how you can say Stander was one dimensional and then say SOB was effective. A bit of double standards there I reckon. I think SOB and Stander dragged us into the game second half, Stander one of few Irish forwards to bring the ball in the right direction.

    I am not at all surprised to see attempts to pin this loss on this loss on Jackson but really the loss had nothing to do with 10.

    We'd have won that game if our pack had turned up in the first half. They didn't and left us with a mountain to climb.

    Agree, Jackson did all that could have been asked of him. I didn't think Henderson & Toner were good, haven't seen much of the former recently, but he looked the perfect replacement for POC a while back, but def not today.


  • #1047
    Quint2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    In fairness to Venjur he's usually the first to stick up for some of shít that is thrown Heaslips way. So just sticking to his guns. But it was much poorer from Heaslip today than what he showed in autumn. Not Irelands motm today

    He looked slow today and his decision making was also poor. He normally NEVER offloads and the one time we needed him to not offload he throws a not even 50:50. Seriously we need to start think of 2019 now.


  • #1048
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Jackson has zero blame to shoulder for this result. If anything, reputation enhanced.
    I will have to see it on TV, but on live viewing Heaslip had is usual high standard game. Stander was OK, but below the heights he was hitting previously. By no means a bad game fir him though. O'Brien was very good - great to see him backbto his best. How he stays on his feet sometimes is astonishing. Not sure why he came off, unless he was truly shagged. Or maybe Joe felt JVDF was a better bet to shackle the Scot and hang on to the slimmest of wins. Was OB injured ?


  • #1049
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    He looked slow today and his decision making was also poor. He normally NEVER offloads and the one time we needed him to not offload he throws a not even 50:50. Seriously we need to start think of 2019 now.

    No, we don't. We need to be thinking about how to win the 2017 6 Nations. And Heaslip is one of our very best players.


  • #1050
    razorblunt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    I'd said previously that not picking VdF against that Scottish backrow was a mistake, they spoilt Irish ball and secured their own pretty effectively. Stander and SOB would have had a better impact from the bench.

    Scotland largely flattered to deceive, 21 points gifted, that lineout summed up the first half but Hogg showed what you can do with an attacking 15, Kearney for me, ran into defenders too much. Russell for them could have had a different sort of game if those 2 loose passes had bounced any other way.

    Heaslip, for me, FWIW was poor too, no look pass under the posts was criminal, I also thought he looked very, very slow and a few folk around me were saying likewise.

    These things can happen in the first game out the door.


  • Advertisement
  • #1051
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,061 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Only changes I make next week are Ryan in for Henderson, Trimble in, Earls on bench and Bowe left at home and the POM in on the bench ahead of VDF.


Advertisement