Paris again?

seamus · 03-02-2017 4:36pm

learn_more wrote: »

Yes but you can forgive ppl for thinking that that was the case because that was the story that British put out at the time in a deliberate attempt to conceal what really happened knowing full well that when the real story emerged the story would not be so much in the public eye. Absolutely despicable what they did.

Which is a perfect example of why we should always be cautious about taking initial reports of any incident as gospel.

These reports are virtually always grains of truth rolled up in extrapolation or sometimes pure lies depending on who reported it. And contrary to popular belief, eyewitnesses are often the least reliable sources of information in the immediate aftermath.

Trent Houseboat · 03-02-2017 4:39pm

RobertKK wrote: »

I was not joking, I mean if I was in a foreign country where the language is not English, how am I exp0ected to know what stop is in a froeign language, how am I to obey if I don't know what was being said?

I was just pointing out that the man may not haven know the word stop, the last thing I would do about him is make it into a joke.

OK, because I read that as "He had it coming for running away from the police, you don't need to know the language to not do that".
But you're now sincerely claiming that they should have told him to stop in Portuguese?

Butters1979 wrote: »

A terrorist apologised is someone who tries to blame the society that is targeted to absolve the perpetrators. This, as much as terrorism in the first place, helps push people to the right.

No one here is trying to do that. It's a strawman entirely of your creation, so I don't know how it's pushing people to the right. Unless people are pretending it is happening in order to recruit people to far right ideals.

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 4:42pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

A terrorist apologised is someone who tries to blame the society that is targeted to absolve the perpetrators. This, as much as terrorism in the first place, helps push people to the right.

Really?

Well according to that definition I am a terrorist apologist.

Terrorism isn't born in a cave and hatched. It is created by Global injustices where we drop bombs on foreign countries, marginalise sections of society based on race or religion and commit state sanctioned murder where innocent civilians are bombed on Live Tv and military incursions are given snappy names like Shock and Awe and some how we act surprised when people get upset about it and become radicalised in our own societies. Most of these terrorist attacks are carried out by national radicalised persons rather than foreign terrorists.

But that's not what you really mean though.

A Terrorist Apologist by its constructoin would point to someone who condones or indeed supports terrorism. Whilst you might only support one side I support neither. I don't condone terrorism. Be it state sanctioned or Islamic nutjobs.

Both are equally wrong. Both are equally stupid.

And writing these attacks off as some sort of dumb morons who "hate freedom" is the worst type of flat out dumbing down I have ever seen. But then again, most people are pretty stupid when they are afraid and the media is spoon feeding people a constant diet of lies and fear.

Where's all the coverage about the radical muslum attack in Quebec last Monday who also shouted Allah Akbar with his buddy with an AK-47 and the same nonsense is being spoon fed five days later.

Forgive me if I am a non believer for now.

learn_more · 03-02-2017 4:44pm

seamus wrote: »

Which is a perfect example of why we should always be cautious about taking initial reports of any incident as gospel.

These reports are virtually always grains of truth rolled up in extrapolation or sometimes pure lies depending on who reported it. And contrary to popular belief, eyewitnesses are often the least reliable sources of information in the immediate aftermath.

Absolutely. That's why I believe that no matter how democratic a country is you can never trust the police or the secret services in matters like these.

Widdershins · 03-02-2017 4:44pm

Not just initial report. Be cautious about taking all report as gospel. Affixing the Mentally Ill label to terrorists is not unheard of and does a disservice to victims and their families. And stigmatises people with actual mental illneses. After all, few people with common mental illnesses are violent people.

darkpagandeath · 03-02-2017 4:45pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Really?

Well according to that definition I am a terrorist apologist.

Terrorism isn't born in a cave and hatched. It is created by Global injustices where we drop bombs on foreign countries, marginalise sections of society based on race or religion and commit state sanctioned murder where innocent civilians are bombed on Live Tv and military incursions are given snappy names like Shock and Awe and some how we act surprised when people get upset about it and become radicalised in our own societies. Most of these terrorist attacks are carried out by national radicalised persons rather than foreign terrorists.

But that's not what you really mean though.

A Terrorist Apologist by its constructoin would point to someone who condones or indeed supports terrorism. Whilst you might only support one side I support neither. I don't condone terrorism. Be it state sanctioned or Islamic nutjobs.

Both are equally wrong. Both are equally stupid.

And writing these attacks off as some sort of dumb morons who "hate freedom" is the worst type of flat out dumbing down I have ever seen. But then again, most people are pretty stupid when they are afraid and the media is spoon feeding people a constant diet of lies and fear.

Where's all the coverage about the radical muslum attack in Quebec last Monday who also shouted Allah Akbar with his buddy with an AK-47 and the same nonsense is being spoon fed five days later.

Forgive me if I am a non believer for now.

If I recall Trump got blamed for that. Even though La pen was involved also.

Widdershins · 03-02-2017 4:46pm

When will the latest statistics be compiled, to reflect the attacks over the past year and two years, I wonder..

Oh, here's a video about the 'mainstream' news!

It's slightly sweary

https://www.facebook.com/consumeitall/videos/634005273421716/

Butters1979 · 03-02-2017 4:52pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Really?

Well according to that definition I am a terrorist apologist.

Terrorism isn't born in a cave and hatched. It is created by Global injustices where we drop bombs on foreign countries, marginalise sections of society based on race or religion and commit state sanctioned murder where innocent civilians are bombed on Live Tv and military incursions are given snappy names like Shock and Awe and some how we act surprised when people get upset about it and become radicalised in our own societies. Most of these terrorist attacks are carried out by national radicalised persons rather than foreign terrorists.

But that's not what you really mean though.

A Terrorist Apologist by its constructoin would point to someone who condones or indeed supports terrorism. Whilst you might only support one side I support neither. I don't condone terrorism. Be it state sanctioned or Islamic nutjobs.

Both are equally wrong. Both are equally stupid.

And writing these attacks off as some sort of dumb morons who "hate freedom" is the worst type of flat out dumbing down I have ever seen. But then again, most people are pretty stupid when they are afraid and the media is spoon feeding people a constant diet of lies and fear.

Where's all the coverage about the radical muslum attack in Quebec last Monday who also shouted Allah Akbar with his buddy with an AK-47 and the same nonsense is being spoon fed five days later.

Forgive me if I am a non believer for now.

tl;dr

darkpagandeath · 03-02-2017 4:53pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

tl;dr

Victim blaming as far as I can see.

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 4:54pm

I've seen a few online reports stating that the backpacks had paint balls in them.

Seems a strange thing for a "terrorist" to be carrying. Are they paint balls or just Paint, at the Lourve. Hmmm

Some pics emerging. Might just be me but this guy looks white from his neck and arm which appear to be visible in the pics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4187460/Lovre-evacuated-Paris.html

HONKEY TONK · 03-02-2017 4:54pm

topper75 wrote: »

It borrows on money markets that will not cease to exist after the EU's demise.

Moreover, the main driver behind govt revenue in Ireland (FDI due to tax concessions) would have the spectre of EU meddling ("tax harmonisation" and back payment threats) removed from the stage.

Again, I dont think you get why Ireland are able to Borrow on the Markets at the current rate

Ireland Credit rating will be listed as Junk very quickly

Also Ireland will have to set up trade deals with every country individually.

Sure It'll be grand.

Wez dont need no EU

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 4:55pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

tl;dr

That's fair enough.

I don't expect you to read anything. Most people with entrenched views don't want to. In fact they seem to like to burn books for some reason historically.

That's the problem with having a dogma I guess as opposed to an opinion which can be changed.

Mary63 · 03-02-2017 4:56pm

If those so radicalised and upset by whats happening are prepared to kill friends and neighbours then can I respectfully suggest they pack their bags and return to their "homeland".That solves the problem for us and them.

Gamb!t · 03-02-2017 4:57pm

Can ye not start a seperate thread for the london shooting and keep this one on topic please ?

Bob24 · 03-02-2017 4:58pm

Summary of the events from Le Figaro's live feed based on a statement from the Paris police chief:

Vers 10h00, dans un escalier qui descend dans la galerie marchande du Carrousel du Louvre qui donne accès au musée mais situé en amont des contrôles de sécurité, un homme "armé d'une machette au moins, peut-être d'une deuxième arme" s'est avancé vers quatre militaires de la force Sentinelle en proférant des "menaces" et en criant "Allah Akbar", a déclaré le préfet de police de Paris Michel Cadot.

"Le militaire le plus proche, semble-t-il, a tiré pour se défendre face à l'agression", tirant cinq balles, "blessant sérieusement l'assaillant", notamment au ventre, selon le préfet de police. A la mi-journée, il était au bloc opératoire, son pronostic vital engagé, selon une source proche de l'enquête.

Un militaire, légèrement blessé au cuir chevelu, a, lui, été pris en charge à l'hôpital militaire Percy à Clamart. L'identité et les motivations de l'auteur restent à déterminer. Aucun explosif n'a été retrouvé dans les sacs à dos que portait l'assaillant. Le parquet antiterroriste a ouvert une enquête de flagrance pour "tentatives d'assassinats aggravées en relation avec une entreprise terroriste et association de malfaiteurs terroriste criminelle".

So at 10AM the guy attacked 4 solidiers on the stairs leading to the underground shopping centre besides the museum, at least with a machete ans possibly with another weapon. He was shouting "Allah Akbar". The soldiers shot him 5 times to stop him, and he is currently at the hospital with possibly deadly injuries.

One of the soldiers was slightly injured but nothing life threatening.

The identity of the man is currently unknown but the anti-terrorist judicial authorities have officialy started an inquiry.

Butters1979 · 03-02-2017 5:02pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That's fair enough.

I don't expect you to read anything. Most people with entrenched views don't want to. In fact they seem to like to burn books for some reason historically.

That's the problem with having a dogma I guess as opposed to an opinion which can be changed.

Thanks for the personnel insult.
Oh I have opinions that can be changed. See I used to be liberal all for open borders and multi culturalism and against government and police powers. Then the last 10 years happened. See some apologist on boards won't change my opinion any more than some lad down the pub who said yadda yadda.
What changes opinions are political and economic events on a global scale. Ever ask yourself why it's only those who disagree with you who are 'incapable of changing their opinion' as you judge it?

Don't confuse a difference of opinion with someone incapable of forming the correct opinion in your eyes.

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 5:02pm

Mary63 wrote: »

If those so radicalised and upset by whats happening are prepared to kill friends and neighbours then can I respectfully suggest they pack their bags and return to their "homeland".That solves the problem for us and them.

I think you miss the point. Most of them have no "homeland" but the one they were born in.

The London Bombings were carried out by radicalised Brits, same as the Paris Attacks - Mainly radicalised French.

Oklahoma Bombings, Joker Masscre, School shootings in the states. Radicalised Americans.

It's not "them" foreigners. It's actually your friends and neighbours who are killing you. There are other ways to tackle radicalisation which doesnt resort to trying to believe that the problem is imported. It's home grown.

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 5:06pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Victim blaming as far as I can see.

Which "victims" do you refer to ?

Mary63 · 03-02-2017 5:09pm

They aren't particularly happy living in the Western world, well the men anyway because Sharia Law suits men.They also don't like women, they hate women more than Donald Trump does, he hasn't murdered any of his daughters for shaming the family by marrying someone not approved of.They don't like homosexuals much either so why live in a society where gay people have equal rights and are considered legitimate targets to be massacred, i.e. Florida night club.

Do you think these people will evolve into rational beings at any time in the future or will they forever be stuck in the sixteenth century.They won't drag us all back there no matter how many of them move to the West and then become terrorists because they are stuck in ghettoes of their own making.

There are plenty of Middle Eastern countries they can apply to move too though no more than the States they have to go through immigration and Security and that will be decided by the Middle Easten countries themselves, same as president Trump is deciding at the moment what immigration he is allowing.

The problem is homegrown and thats exactly why we want a limit put on anymore people coming in who are likely to be radicalised in the future, that is exactly what Donald Trump is doing and he is totally correct.The French let far too many in and then put the problem out of sight and out of mind and now their country is being destroyed by nut jobs whose utterings are pure nonsense and whose thinking is medieval.

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 5:09pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Thanks for the personnel insult.
Oh I have opinions that be changed. See I used to be liberal all for open borders and multi culturalism and against government and police powers. Then the last 10 years happened. See some apologist on boards won't change my opinion any more than some lad down the pub who said yadda yadda.
What changes opinions are political and economic events on a global scale. Ever ask yourself why it's only those who disagree with you who are 'incapable of changing their opinion' as you judge it?

Don't confuse a difference of opinion with someone incapable of forming the correct opinion in your eyes.

I'd love to know what your opinion is. Instead of any sort of discussion you decide to engage with some sort of too long, didnt read, dismissal.

I'd expect if from a stroppy teenager (maybe you are, that's the beauty of Boards I guess) but you seem to be older if you have had ten years to form views. Political and Economic Events have changed your opinions. That's quite interesting. What's your view. How was it shaped by political and economic events.

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 5:11pm

Mary63 wrote: »

They aren't particularly happy living in the Western world, well the men anyway because Sharia Law suits men.They also don't like women, they hate women more than Donald Trump does, he hasn't murdered any of his daughters for shaming the family by marrying someone not approved of.They don't like homosexuals much either so why live in a society where gay people have equal rights and are considered legitimate targets to be massacred, i.e. Florida night club.

Do you think these people will evolve into rational beings at any time in the future or will they forever be stuck in the sixteenth century.They won't drag us all back there no matter how many of them move to the West and then become terrorists because they are stuck in ghettoes of their own making.

There are plenty of Middle Eastern countries they can apply to move too though no more than the States they have to go through immigration and Security and that will be decided by the Middle Easten countries themselves, same as president Trump is deciding at the moment what immigration he is allowing.

Mary, who are "they" and "These people". The first step to hate is dehumanising people so I find this language fascinating. Can you point me to anyone who has these opinions.

Trent Houseboat · 03-02-2017 5:14pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

A terrorist apologised is someone who tries to blame the society that is targeted to absolve the perpetrators. This, as much as terrorism in the first place, helps push people to the right.

Butters1979 wrote: »

See some apologist on boards won't change my opinion any more than some lad down the pub who said yadda yadda.
What changes opinions are political and economic events on a global scale.

I thought online apologists' postings were radicalising people to the right, now you're telling us that posts have no effect.

ceadaoin. · 03-02-2017 5:17pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I've seen a few online reports stating that the backpacks had paint balls in them.

Seems a strange thing for a "terrorist" to be carrying. Are they paint balls or just Paint, at the Lourve. Hmmm

Some pics emerging. Might just be me but this guy looks white from his neck and arm which appear to be visible in the pics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4187460/Lovre-evacuated-Paris.html

Really? You can't tell anything about his skin colour from those grainy photos taken from a distance. What difference does that make anyway? Sounds a bit racist tbh, only non white people can be terrorists?

Mary63 · 03-02-2017 5:25pm

These people are those people who decapitate an elderly man trying to protect priceless arifacts.

These people are those people who decapitate an elderly priest, attackers are in their early twenties.

These people are the ones who drug themselves up to the hilt and then murder people enjoying a concert, reason being the Koran forbids music and dance.

These people are the ones who murder gay people enjoying a night out, reason being the Koran says homosexuality is illegal.

Need I go on, what about all the honour killings of young women who decide that they aren't owned by anyone so they will marry who they please.What about the fifteen year old girl shot in the head because she wanted to go to school.

These people are living back in the sixteenth century and they want to spread their message of hatred of normal civilised people, i.e. murder journalists in cold blood even though the pen is mightier than the sword.

I have no wish to appease anyone like this, no wish to engage in anyway with their twisted illogical thinking so if they want a way of life that is incompatible with Western values then off they go, I will hold the door open for them myself.

Butters1979 · 03-02-2017 5:28pm

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

I thought online apologists' postings were radicalising people to the right, now you're telling us that posts have no effect.

The entire apologist culture that's breeding out from the liberal left. It's everywhere.

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 5:30pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Really? You can't tell anything about his skin colour from those grainy photos taken from a distance. What difference does that make anyway? Sounds a bit racist tbh, only non white people can be terrorists?

His arm looks white to me.

I agree. I just find it interesting that he looks white.

Butters1979 · 03-02-2017 5:30pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'd love to know what your opinion is. Instead of any sort of discussion you decide to engage with some sort of too long, didnt read, dismissal.

I'd expect if from a stroppy teenager (maybe you are, that's the beauty of Boards I guess) but you seem to be older if you have had ten years to form views. Political and Economic Events have changed your opinions. That's quite interesting. What's your view. How was it shaped by political and economic events.

Again with the insults. Stroppy teenager?
I've not interest in discussing political opinions with yourself. You can't speak to anyone who disagrees with you without insults.

Mr. Incognito · 03-02-2017 5:33pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Again with the insults. Stroppy teenager?
I've not interest in discussing political opinions with yourself. You can't speak to anyone who disagrees with you without insults.

If you feel insulted I apologise.

I just have no idea what your opinions are as you don't consciously read any posts and brag about that fact. Seems a bit petulant but hey, it's a free country. You dont have to express your opinions but would be good to know if you have any.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-02-2017 5:36pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Really? You can't tell anything about his skin colour from those grainy photos taken from a distance. What difference does that make anyway? Sounds a bit racist tbh, only non white people can be terrorists?

Islam is a religion not a race. Anyone can become a Muslim just like anyone can become a Christian.

This 'white' thing is a load of bollox anyway, Middle easterners are Caucasian. The same hair texture, facial features, skull, bone structure.

Trent Houseboat · 03-02-2017 5:37pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

The entire apologist culture that's breeding out from the liberal left. It's everywhere.

Where? Most people condemn terrorism. Which global political/economic event (the only ways to move the needle) apologises for or defends Islamic terrorism?

If only you'd let posts on boards sway your opinions you'd see Islamic terror loudly condemned by the majority.

Paris again?

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