Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

snubbleste · 30-01-2017 01:19PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Why do you think has he not included Saudi and Pakistan?

I dunno. Or Indonesia or Malaysia or Tunisia or Bangladesh

RobertKK · 30-01-2017 01:20PM

Christy42 wrote: »

These measures are immoral. It is a great facility but I hate my country being complicit in such acts. We should do the exact same amount of preclearance as before. The us can decide what to do on their side. If this results in extra hassle on the US side for travellers, well the US brought in these measures-not Ireland.

It will be tough given our economic interests with the US but the US should not be allowed do whatever it wants simply because of its size and economic strength.

I suspect a lot of US travelers from here will oppose what Katherine Zappone advocates.
The removal of US pre-Clearance here would change nothing, apart from creating extra hassle for people leaving this island for the US.
It might be fine for her as she would be unaffected.

Hank Scorpio · 30-01-2017 01:22PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Then why do you think has he not included Saudi and Pakistan, probably the main two culprits on the planet of what he calls 'exporting terror' especially as pertaining to the US?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-saudi-idUSKBN15D14L

Aren't the US and the Saudi's allies?

The whole situation is messed up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-a7362071.html

Pakistan I don't know. I read the Countries he named were outlined as regions of terror during Obama's administration but maybe it's bs. CNN are saying the same thing here.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/how-the-trump-administration-chose-the-7-countries/

Billy86 · 30-01-2017 01:24PM

snubbleste wrote: »

I dunno. Or Indonesia or Malaysia or Tunisia or Bangladesh

Well Saudi & Pakistan are the main culprits of what what would be considered 'exporting terrorism' so surely if that is what it is about, he would have included them despite his businesses in and financial ties to those countries, right?

Billy86 · 30-01-2017 01:26PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-saudi-idUSKBN15D14L

Aren't the US and the Saudi's allies?

The whole situation is messed up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-a7362071.html

Pakistan I don't know. I read the Countries he named were outlined as regions of terror during Obama's administration but maybe it's bs. CNN are saying the same thing here.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/how-the-trump-administration-chose-the-7-countries/

From the link from the other poster to Trump's policies page:

Vet applicants to ensure they support America’s values, institutions and people, and temporarily suspend immigration from regions that export terrorism and where safe vetting cannot presently be ensured.

To the US, that pertains to Saudi and Pakistan more than possibly any two other nations on earth. But adding those two would do damage to the Trump Corporations profitability, especially after those eight additional business ventures he undertook in Saudi during the campaign trail.

B0jangles · 30-01-2017 01:31PM

Looks like the DHS has found a way to bar legitimate greencard holders from returning to the United States without doing so in the US and thus facing legal challenges in US courts - they are going to block them from getting on to US-bound flights in the first place.

https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/825881715151343616/photo/1

This is shameful, totally indefensible and utterly utterly stupid.

Day 11 of Trump's presidency people,

Day 11.

kunst nugget · 30-01-2017 01:33PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Well Saudi & Pakistan are the main culprits of what what would be considered 'exporting terrorism' so surely if that is what it is about, he would have included them despite his businesses in and financial ties to those countries, right?

They were saying on the radio this morning there was not one death accountable to terrorism in the US from a person originating from any of the seven blacklisted countries in the last 40 years. They were accountable for 7% of foreign born Muslim Terrorists in the US since 9/11 which amounted to an absolutely staggering 3 people!

snubbleste · 30-01-2017 01:33PM

Billy86 wrote: »

From the link from the other poster to Trump's policies page:
Vet applicants to ensure they support America’s values, institutions and people, and temporarily suspend immigration from regions that export terrorism and where safe vetting cannot presently be ensured.
To the US, that pertains to Saudi and Pakistan more than possibly any two other nations on earth. But adding those two would do damage to the Trump Corporations profitability, especially after those eight additional business ventures he undertook in Saudi during the campaign trail.

I dunno. Maybe he'll include them in future. Tweet him and ask!

kunst nugget · 30-01-2017 01:34PM

snubbleste wrote: »

I dunno. Maybe he'll include them in future. Tweet him and ask!

They are never going to be blacklisted countries…

listermint · 30-01-2017 01:36PM

snubbleste wrote: »

I dunno. Maybe he'll include them in future. Tweet him and ask!

No he wont, you should really stop singing and dancing around the fact this is all utterly transparent.

Do something to feed all those supporters you fed full of crap for the last 2 years. More of the disinformation than ever before.

Proceed with the plan, those same supporters are placated and do NOTHING to address terrorism exportation, supposedly the sole reason this action was called for in the first place.

Oh yeah and protect your own business interests while you are at it.

Shameful, and shameful for anyone who tries to defend it. its indefensible.

Billy86 · 30-01-2017 01:38PM

snubbleste wrote: »

I dunno. Maybe he'll include them in future. Tweet him and ask!

If he was doing what he said he was going to do, he would have included them already. They would have probably been the #1 and #2 countries on the list. Instead, and you're well aware of this I would assume (as everyone should be), he has more in lining his own pockets than in what he claims.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 30-01-2017 01:38PM

These laws that Trump has brought in are exactly what the likes of ISIS want and yet nobody in power seems to have the cop on to see this.

Further perceived ill treatment of Muslims to convince Muslims that they are held in contempt by the west and don't belong their creating more division and more likelihood of radicalizing young Muslims.

listermint · 30-01-2017 01:40PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

These laws that Trump has brought in are exactly what the likes of ISIS want and yet nobody in power seems to have the cop on to see this.

Further perceived ill treatment of Muslims to convince Muslims that they are held in contempt by the west and don't belong their creating more division and more likelihood of radicalizing young Muslims.

Oh they know well alright.

Wars mean Dollars.

Billy86 · 30-01-2017 01:40PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

These laws that Trump has brought in are exactly what the likes of ISIS want and yet nobody in power seems to have the cop on to see this.

Further perceived ill treatment of Muslims to convince Muslims that they are held in contempt by the west and don't belong their creating more division and more likelihood of radicalizing young Muslims.

The 'funny' (if you can call it that) thing is that more terrorist attacks on the US would likely only mean more support for Trump.

Billy86 · 30-01-2017 01:41PM

listermint wrote: »

Oh they know well alright.

Wars mean Dollars.

And when was the last time a wartime US president lost election for a second term?

Will be interesting to see how they ramp up their aggression towards China over the next 2-3 years on that front.

B0jangles · 30-01-2017 01:43PM

Oh by the way. the Trump administration has removed the Judicial Branch from the Whitehouse website explaining the constituent parts of US Governance

The same judicial branch that is actively rejecting and blocking the probably illegal and unconstitutional exectutive orders pouring out of the Whitehouse.

Start of January:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170101230014/https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/executive-branch

Current State of Website:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/executive-branch

Christy42 · 30-01-2017 01:50PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I suspect a lot of US travelers from here will oppose what Katherine Zappone advocates.
The removal of US pre-Clearance here would change nothing, apart from creating extra hassle for people leaving this island for the US.
It might be fine for her as she would be unaffected.

I imagine many people would. They can blame the US. The amount of preclearance Ireland is willing to do won't have changed from before Trump. By ourselves we could change nothing but it would add to the mounting resistance to this ban the world over. It would also mean we are not party to this ridiculous situation either.

That last line is like saying the Trump calling for this ridiculous ban is fine for him as he won't be affected.

ricero · 30-01-2017 02:23PM

Got to say im disgusted with the liberal bias media calling this a muslim ban. Do they not realise their is other religions in these countries other than islam

jobbridge4life · 30-01-2017 02:25PM

ricero wrote: »

Got to say im disgusted with the liberal bias media calling this a muslim ban. Do they not realise their is other religions in these countries other than islam

The ban includes carve outs for members of religious minorities.

tonycascarino · 30-01-2017 02:30PM

ricero wrote: »

Got to say im disgusted with the liberal bias media calling this a muslim ban. Do they not realise their is other religions in these countries other than islam

They can cry all they like. You can be sure Trump doesn't give a damn about what they say and rightly so.

jobbridge4life · 30-01-2017 02:33PM

tonycascarino wrote: »

They can cry all they like. You can be sure Trump doesn't give a damn about what they say and rightly so.

That is why he spends his time whining about it like baby?

B0jangles · 30-01-2017 02:33PM

ricero wrote: »

Got to say im disgusted with the liberal bias media calling this a muslim ban. Do they not realise their is other religions in these countries other than islam

Yeah Rudy Giuliani, notorious member of the Liberal Biased Media(!) was recently on FoxNews recounting how Trump sought his advice on how to legally implement a Muslim Ban.

“I'll tell you the whole history of it,” Giuliani responded eagerly. “So when [Trump] first announced it, he said, 'Muslim ban.' He called me up. He said, 'Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.' "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/?utm_term=.a2f7879da934

Doesn't sound like Trump was listening though, considering what a total mess (legally) this EO has been so far.

Billy86 · 30-01-2017 02:34PM

ricero wrote: »

Got to say im disgusted with the liberal bias media calling this a muslim ban. Do they not realise their is other religions in these countries other than islam

Yeah, I mean it's not like Trump ran on a platform of a Muslim ban or anything...

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration
Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on.

Somalia - 99.8% Muslim.
Yemen - 99.1% Muslim
Iraq - 99% Muslim.
Iran - 98.4% Muslim.
Sudan - 97% Muslim
Libya - 96.6% Muslim.
Syria - 92.1% Muslim (probably far higher with non Muslims more likely to have fled than Muslims during the war)

Now if this was about terrorism as opposed to Muslims who don't line Trump and his family's pockets, why were Saudi and Pakistan left off the list?

tonycascarino · 30-01-2017 02:35PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That is why he spends his time whining about it like baby?

I am saying that no matter what the liberal media say that I really doubt they are going to change his mind on any issue

VinLieger · 30-01-2017 02:35PM

ricero wrote: »

Got to say im disgusted with the liberal bias media calling this a muslim ban. Do they not realise their is other religions in these countries other than islam

Many of his supporters like you point out hes simply following through on his campaign promises....... one of which was to ban muslims........

Professor Moriarty · 30-01-2017 02:59PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, I mean it's not like Trump ran on a platform of a Muslim ban or anything...

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration
Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on.

Somalia - 99.8% Muslim.
Yemen - 99.1% Muslim
Iraq - 99% Muslim.
Iran - 98.4% Muslim.
Sudan - 97% Muslim
Libya - 96.6% Muslim.
Syria - 92.1% Muslim (probably far higher with non Muslims more likely to have fled than Muslims during the war)

Now if this was about terrorism as opposed to Muslims who don't line Trump and his family's pockets, why were Saudi and Pakistan left off the list?

Time for alternative facts (which are actually true for a change).

Pakistan is spending $10,000,000,000 on defence each year , purchasing items such as helicopters from a country that shall not be named. Pakistan will also receive $260,000,000 foreign military assistance in 2017 from a country that shall not be named.

Saudi Arabia spends $87,000,000,000 on defence and is the biggest weapons customer of a country that shall not be named.

RobertKK · 30-01-2017 03:00PM

Christy42 wrote: »

I imagine many people would. They can blame the US. The amount of preclearance Ireland is willing to do won't have changed from before Trump. By ourselves we could change nothing but it would add to the mounting resistance to this ban the world over. It would also mean we are not party to this ridiculous situation either.

That last line is like saying the Trump calling for this ridiculous ban is fine for him as he won't be affected.

US preclearance is effectively US soil.
All that would be done is needless extra hassle for people arriving from Dublin ans Shannon airports to the US.

Katherine Zappone is one of those idiots who think being hostile to an ally will somehow be more effective.
Donald Trump did it with NATO members who were not paying their share, even if the figure was aspirational and something members should aim for, and after talking with Theresa May he says he is 100% behind NATO.

Zappone would achieve nothing if she got her way, absolutely nothing, just hassle for travelers that people would rather get over with at either Dublin or Shannon, instead of when they arrive in the US.

orubiru · 30-01-2017 03:02PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, I mean it's not like Trump ran on a platform of a Muslim ban or anything...

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration
Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on.

Somalia - 99.8% Muslim.
Yemen - 99.1% Muslim
Iraq - 99% Muslim.
Iran - 98.4% Muslim.
Sudan - 97% Muslim
Libya - 96.6% Muslim.
Syria - 92.1% Muslim (probably far higher with non Muslims more likely to have fled than Muslims during the war)

Now if this was about terrorism as opposed to Muslims who don't line Trump and his family's pockets, why were Saudi and Pakistan left off the list?

OK, here is something I am not understanding at all.

How have they chosen the 7 countries to be banned?

Have they literally just taken the 7 countries with the highest % of Muslim population and banned them? How did they even measure that? Census information?

Otherwise it seems so arbitrary.

They haven't banned all Muslims so it isn't a "Muslim Ban" as such and they haven't banned Saudi Arabia so that doesn't make any sense from the "it'll stop terrorists" perspective.

If there are 40+ "Muslim countries" (how is that even decided?) in the world then how the hell have they selected these 7 for this kind of treatment?

ricero · 30-01-2017 03:02PM

A Muslim ban yet none of the countries on the list are even in the top 5 population of countries with Muslim citizens. god damn liberal media need to got off the Donalds' back and let him get on with the job

Muir · 30-01-2017 03:03PM

ricero wrote: »

Got to say im disgusted with the liberal bias media calling this a muslim ban. Do they not realise their is other religions in these countries other than islam

Trump said he will give preference to Christians from the same countries.

Although, personally I see it as more of a ploy to make his supporters believe he is doing something to combat terrorism. I mean, there have never been any fatal terrorist attacks in the US committed by a person from one of these countries, but all his supporters will see is that he kept a campaign promise. The fact is that these kind of actions only serve to exacerbate the problem and make recruitment easier for terrorist organisations.

But even that doesn't matter because either it will continue to be the case that no person from one of these countries has ever committed a fatal terrorist attack in the US and Trump and his supporters will say his ban worked.

OR

There will be increased acts of terrorism because of this ban, and Trump and his supporters will use that as justification for having done it in the first place.

Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

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