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receiving TV via UPC wall connection but not subscribed?

  • 11-01-2017 9:24pm
    #1
    AGrownUpTheySay
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭


    Hi - just moved into a rental property. I plugged the wall cable into the UPC box and connected to TV, tuned in "analogue" (which I know must just access the aerial which is receiving the digital signal) and have a fair few channels.

    I *think* I am just receiving the free to air digital channels but don't want to be stung by UPC suddenly telling me that I need to pay.

    Am I right in thinking that the UPC just accesses the aerial and without a set top box, etc, I am not getting channels that I should be charged for?
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Thurston?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭Thurston?


    These channels? They're analogue channels still carried on the cable network, nothing to do with an aerial.


  • #3
    AGrownUpTheySay
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AGrownUpTheySay


    Ok...yes, those channels. So free? Right?


  • #4
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭stevek93


    That is normal you cannot encrypt analogue, only way for them to stop you viewing the stations is for an engineer to come out to the property and physically disconnect it.


  • #5
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭stevek93


    AGrownUpTheySay wrote: »
    Ok...yes, those channels. So free? Right?

    You cannot buy a analogue package anymore, existing customers are still paying but how does this work then as the OP said free now? I remember paying for them alright.


  • #6
    AGrownUpTheySay
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AGrownUpTheySay


    Ok, thanks so I won't be suddenly charged for them or anything? I have Virgin broadband and don't want to pay for TV but if I can have this for free, that's grand!


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  • #7
    AGrownUpTheySay
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AGrownUpTheySay


    Oh, and I realise that UPC have rebranded as Virgin...so Virgin are teh ones I am hoping won't suddenly charge me!


  • #8
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭stevek93


    AGrownUpTheySay wrote: »
    Ok, thanks so I won't be suddenly charged for them or anything? I have Virgin broadband and don't want to pay for TV but if I can have this for free, that's grand!

    Nothing mentioned in the terms so go nuts I presume.


  • #9
    AGrownUpTheySay
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AGrownUpTheySay


    Thanks all!


  • #10
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,642 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    AGrownUpTheySay wrote: »
    Oh, and I realise that UPC have rebranded as Virgin...so Virgin are teh ones I am hoping won't suddenly charge me!

    As said previously there is no longer an analogue subscription option for new subscribers, the channels remain for the 30,000 or so legacy analogue subscribers.


  • #11
    AGrownUpTheySay
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AGrownUpTheySay


    Hi Cush - so what you are saying is that someone who lived here before must have had the analogue channels subscribed and that's what I am getting?

    The previous tenants were, apparently on NTL/Virgin and closed the account.
    I have now got Virgin Broadband but not signed up to TV.


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  • #12
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    There's a cable that goes into your house from outside. The cable carries digital TV data, broadband/phone data, and analogue tv channels. You can't receive the digital stuff without a working VM digital box, you can't receive the internet/phone without a working VM modem.
    The analogue is different though, it's just signal. If the cable is connected to the network outside it just works - regardless of whether you're subscribed to digital TVs or internet or whatever.
    The only way it stops is when they switch your cable feed off outside (cutting everything off) This only happens when there is no account active in the address.
    As long as you have your broadband, and as long as VM do analogue, you'll have the chsnnels.


  • #13
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,642 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    AGrownUpTheySay wrote: »
    The previous tenants were, apparently on NTL/Virgin and closed the account.
    I have now got Virgin Broadband but not signed up to TV.

    The analogue channels are carried on the same cable as broadband and digital TV, just a different frequency and they cannot be encrypted, so if you have the VM connection for broadband the analogue channels are there by default. At some point in the future, VM may switch off these channels for everyone.


  • #14
    AGrownUpTheySay
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AGrownUpTheySay


    Ok, grand - kind of what I thought but had the wrong terminology - thanks all!


  • #15
    winston_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1


    stevek93 wrote: »
    That is normal you cannot encrypt analogue, only way for them to stop you viewing the stations is for an engineer to come out to the property and physically disconnect it.

    Really?

    Sky managed it with video crypt.
    The BBC managed it with Save.
    The French managed it with Disquet.
    Film net managed it with Matsu****a system.
    The cable companies also managed it for years.


  • #16
    minikin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭minikin


    You should be grand, just plug out if you see this outside.
    zilu2v.jpg


  • #17
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,642 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    winston_1 wrote: »
    The cable companies also managed it for years.

    Except for Cablelink/UPC/VM cable.


  • #18
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    They used to encrypt channels in the 'old' days by messing with the sync signals but the audio was in the clear.

    Unless they give out decode boxes to their analogue subscribers, encoding analogue will not happen. They will stop the service first.


  • #19
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Oh active line, I'd like to try something with that, can't be spoken about here though!


  • #20
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭stevek93


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    They used to encrypt channels in the 'old' days by messing with the sync signals but the audio was in the clear.

    Unless they give out decode boxes to their analogue subscribers, encoding analogue will not happen. They will stop the service first.

    I remember that now, colours all over the screen but still could hear the channel.


  • #21
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,495 ✭✭✭cml387


    I think the sync was left alone but each line was scrambled.
    It would be unwise to leave older tv's with an unsynced timebase due to the fire hazard.


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  • #22
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    moved to cable

    On the subject of encrypted analogue, it can be done and was done in other jurisdictions. In Ireland it's most prominent use was in Cork city where the service (apart from RTE/TV3/TG4) was fully encrypted due to a particular local piracy problem. Elsewhere it was very uncommon for basic cable to be encrypted. Sky Movies and Sports were. Very soon after NTL (as it was by that stage) launched it digital service, it moved all premium subscribers over (as I recall they effectively got digital for the same price as they had been paying for analogue) and discontinued all the premium channels on analogue.


  • #23
    thomas anderson.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭thomas anderson.


    How do you get these free channels? (have virgin media bb sub and previously a TV sub)

    Do you need to run a cable from the box to the tv and retune? Or plug the cable going into the back of the box directly into the tv and retune? I can only pick up the Irish stations, when plugged directly in to the tv (so far)


  • #24
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,495 ✭✭✭cml387


    You need an analogue tuner on your TV.
    The channels are spread across the old Band I and Band III frequencies.


  • #25
    thomas anderson.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭thomas anderson.


    cml387 wrote: »
    You need an analogue tuner on your TV.
    The channels are spread across the old Band I and Band III frequencies.

    Have an analogue tuner alright and can get the irish stations but none of the uk ones


  • #26
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    thomas anderson. wrote: »
    Have an analogue tuner alright and can get the irish stations but none of the uk ones

    The TV might not have a VHF tuner enabled, or you might only be tuning Digital. The VHF tuner is enabled by having the set as Country=Ireland and not Country=UK. The set would have VHF disabled if it is set to UK.


  • #27
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,642 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    thomas anderson. wrote: »
    Have an analogue tuner alright and can get the irish stations but none of the uk ones

    Where are you located? In Cork for example only the 4 Irish channels are available via analogue cable.


  • #28
    thomas anderson.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭thomas anderson.


    The Cush wrote: »
    Where are you located? In Cork for example only the 4 Irish channels are available via analogue cable.

    Ah

    Yup in Cork. I had read somewhere that only the 4 Irish channels were available but was hoping it was mistake.


  • #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    They used to encrypt channels in the 'old' days by messing with the sync signals but the audio was in the clear.
    Chorus did this in their ex-Irish Multichannel areas (with those rubbish Jerrold boxes that were really intended for NTSC) but ex-Cablelink used Cryptovision which looked very similar to Videocrypt on-screen.


  • #30
    ozmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Can we combine the saorview (hd rte) with the analong (other stations)?

    Using eg. This

    http://www.freetv.ie/tv-aerial-and-satellite-combiner/

    I would like use the analong + saorview on a tv that has 1 antanae socket.
    But avoid the hassle of a separate saorview box with second remote etc.

    Thanks

    “Roll it back”



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  • #31
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭stevek93


    Jasus alaonge has got popular again, I remember as a kid this was all we had to entertain ourselves with.


  • #32
    ozmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭ozmo


    stevek93 wrote: »
    Jasus alaonge has got popular again, I remember as a kid this was all we had to entertain ourselves with.

    I have my digital box banished to back room as I hate the the way the fan comes on at odd times even when the tv is off.

    The number stations on Analog is fine for me, and not far off the quality of the UPC SCART Digital box we have.

    So anyone know simpliest way I can get SV + VirginMedia Analog on my tv without a separate settop box... ?

    “Roll it back”



  • #33
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭stevek93


    ozmo wrote: »
    I have my digital box banished to back room as I hate the the way the fan comes on at odd times even when the tv is off.

    The number stations on Analog is fine for me, and not far off the quality of the UPC SCART Digital box we have.

    So anyone know simpliest way I can get SV + VirginMedia Analog on my tv without a separate settop box... ?

    Wonder if you can you use a splitter, having the Soarview and analog on the one coax?


  • #34
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,642 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    stevek93 wrote: »
    Wonder if you can you use a splitter, having the Soarview and analog on the one coax?

    If you combine both and your Saorview comes from Three Rock there will be a signal conflict on UHF Ch.30. This frequency is used by Channel4 on analogue cable and Mux1 on Saorview.


  • #35
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭stevek93


    The Cush wrote: »
    If you combine both and your Saorview comes from Three Rock there will be a signal conflict on UHF Ch.30. This frequency is used by Channel4 on analogue cable and Mux1 on Saorview.

    Best to stick to analog so. You can get a decent picture if from the analog if you do it right.


  • #36
    Ste-
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭Ste-


    Is there any way of feeding these channels into something like TVheadend ?


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  • #37
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,546 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Ste- wrote: »
    Is there any way of feeding these channels into something like TVheadend ?

    Use an ancient version that still supports Video4Linux and get multiple old WinTV cards. Otherwise no.


  • #38
    Ste-
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭Ste-


    L1011 wrote: »
    Use an ancient version that still supports Video4Linux and get multiple old WinTV cards. Otherwise no.

    When you say multiple do you mean one card per channel type thing.


  • #39
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,546 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Ste- wrote: »
    When you say multiple do you mean one card per channel type thing.

    Yeah. Not sure if multi channel analogue cards ever existed. You need to get PAL (I) compatible cards that support the full VHF band - some only support conventional Band III which means you miss these channels on normal setups:

    CC 11 / 232 MHz - Sky1
    CC 13 / 248 MHz - Setanta Ireland
    CC 15 / 256 MHz - 3e*
    CC 16 / 264 MHz - Nickelodeon/Comedy Central
    CC 17 / 272 MHz - MTV
    CC 18 / 280 MHz - Sky News


  • #40
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The Cush wrote: »
    If you combine both and your Saorview comes from Three Rock there will be a signal conflict on UHF Ch.30. This frequency is used by Channel4 on analogue cable and Mux1 on Saorview.
    If you could use a filter / diplexer to block 30 then you could mix the analog signal with the 50/54 from Kippure.


  • #41
    ozmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭ozmo


    ozmo wrote: »
    Can we combine the saorview (hd rte) with the analong (other stations)?
    http://www.freetv.ie/tv-aerial-and-satellite-combiner/
    I would like use the analong + saorview on a tv that has 1 antanae socket.

    I tried just wiring the two together using some connection block UPC left behind once (1 in and 2 out) and the Saorview signal was perfect but the analog stations although present, had bad reception. I've ordered the the connector above (2 in and 1 out) and Ill let you know if this is better.

    My goal is to use the TV tuner to get both Saorview And the VM Stations so I dont need a second remote control.

    “Roll it back”



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  • #42
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    IF and it's a big IF your set top box accepts CEC commands you could use one remote.

    Some BluRay players do, Raspberry Pi does, not sure about chromecast
    most satellite receivers DON'T, some SKY boxes freak out

    so YMMV

    or get a universal remote control, unless you stuck with something like Virgin Horizon or Sharp TV's that don't use IR.


    Or use boxes / TV that can be controlled from app on PC/Tablet/phone


  • #43
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,642 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    If you could use a filter / diplexer to block 30 then you could mix the analog signal with the 50/54 from Kippure.
    If Kippure is available to you, not available to all, hence the reason Three Rock exists.


  • #44
    Thurston?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭Thurston?


    ozmo wrote: »
    ozmo wrote: »
    Can we combine the saorview (hd rte) with the analong (other stations)?

    Using eg. This

    http://www.freetv.ie/tv-aerial-and-satellite-combiner/

    I would like use the analong + saorview on a tv that has 1 antanae socket.
    ... I've ordered the the connector above (2 in and 1 out) and Ill let you know if this is better.

    The satellite/terrestrial combiner in the link? That's useless for what you're trying to do.


  • #45
    ozmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Thurston? wrote: »
    The satellite/terrestrial combiner in the link? That's useless for what you're trying to do.

    Ahh- now you tell me- I waited a week before I ordered it.

    I have no satelite, no sky no saorview box and no virgin digital box on this tv( digital box in another room).

    Just a nice TV with builtin saorview that i want to get VirginMedia Analog cable + Saorview via rabbit ears on.

    Both work brilliantly on their own - perfect clear signal with episode guides etc. - Rabbit ears antanae for Saorview and Cable for analog.
    TV is great so I want use its tuner and not have add an external box via hdmi

    TV has 1 coax input- but also one of those large Cam? Card Sockets?- is that anything I can use for saorview?

    Thanks.

    “Roll it back”



  • #46
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,546 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    CI socket is useless in Ireland. No encrypted over the air and even though most TVs do DVB-C, Virgin will never release a CAM.


  • #47
    Dave..M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 693 ✭✭✭Dave..M


    The requirement reminds me of the old manually tripped game/aerial switch from my C64 days (similar to below but more blocky 1980's tech possibly with crusty celotape holding it together and zero possibility for automation!)

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coaxial-Female-Aerial-Switch-Splitter-x/dp/B000Q8FDIU


  • #48
    Vic_08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    ozmo wrote: »
    Ahh- now you tell me- I waited a week before I ordered it.

    I have no satelite, no sky no saorview box and no virgin digital box on this tv( digital box in another room).

    Just a nice TV with builtin saorview that i want to get VirginMedia Analog cable + Saorview via rabbit ears on.

    Both work brilliantly on their own - perfect clear signal with episode guides etc. - Rabbit ears antanae for Saorview and Cable for analog.
    TV is great so I want use its tuner and not have add an external box via hdmi

    TV has 1 coax input- but also one of those large Cam? Card Sockets?- is that anything I can use for saorview?

    Thanks.

    A UHF/VHF combiner is what you need.


    I had a tv connected to both analogue terrestrial and cable with one for years, worked OK.

    both of these appear to be correct but the descriptions and pics are a bit vague.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Signal-Separator-Combiner-VHF-UHF-300-Analog-TV-Diplexer-Connectors-/322096758603

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fringe-Passive-Range-Inductive-Combiner-Splitter-/282257917151


  • #49
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,642 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    A UHF/VHF combiner is what you need.

    I had a tv connected to both analogue terrestrial and cable with one for years, worked OK.
    The only problem I see doing that is you lose the 3 UHF channels from the cable network via the VHF input.
    CH 21 / 471 MHz - E4
    CH 30 / 543 MHz - Channel 4
    CH 34 / 575 MHz - Discovery Channel


  • #50
    Vic_08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    The Cush wrote: »
    The only problem I see doing that is you lose the 3 UHF channels from the cable network via the VHF input.

    True.

    I forgot that UPC had moved those channels from VHF band I.


  • #51
    thomas anderson.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭thomas anderson.


    Is there anything that can be done with the ethernet port on the old silver boxes, as in pick up stations or installed custom firmware?


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