receiving TV via UPC wall connection but not subscribed?

AGrownUpTheySay

Hi - just moved into a rental property. I plugged the wall cable into the UPC box and connected to TV, tuned in "analogue" (which I know must just access the aerial which is receiving the digital signal) and have a fair few channels.

I *think* I am just receiving the free to air digital channels but don't want to be stung by UPC suddenly telling me that I need to pay.

Am I right in thinking that the UPC just accesses the aerial and without a set top box, etc, I am not getting channels that I should be charged for?

Thurston?

These channels? They're analogue channels still carried on the cable network, nothing to do with an aerial.

AGrownUpTheySay

Ok...yes, those channels. So free? Right?

stevek93

That is normal you cannot encrypt analogue, only way for them to stop you viewing the stations is for an engineer to come out to the property and physically disconnect it.

stevek93

AGrownUpTheySay wrote: »

Ok...yes, those channels. So free? Right?

You cannot buy a analogue package anymore, existing customers are still paying but how does this work then as the OP said free now? I remember paying for them alright.

AGrownUpTheySay

Ok, thanks so I won't be suddenly charged for them or anything? I have Virgin broadband and don't want to pay for TV but if I can have this for free, that's grand!

AGrownUpTheySay

Oh, and I realise that UPC have rebranded as Virgin...so Virgin are teh ones I am hoping won't suddenly charge me!

stevek93

AGrownUpTheySay wrote: »

Ok, thanks so I won't be suddenly charged for them or anything? I have Virgin broadband and don't want to pay for TV but if I can have this for free, that's grand!

Nothing mentioned in the terms so go nuts I presume.

AGrownUpTheySay

Thanks all!

The Cush

AGrownUpTheySay wrote: »

Oh, and I realise that UPC have rebranded as Virgin...so Virgin are teh ones I am hoping won't suddenly charge me!

As said previously there is no longer an analogue subscription option for new subscribers, the channels remain for the 30,000 or so legacy analogue subscribers.

AGrownUpTheySay

Hi Cush - so what you are saying is that someone who lived here before must have had the analogue channels subscribed and that's what I am getting?

The previous tenants were, apparently on NTL/Virgin and closed the account.
I have now got Virgin Broadband but not signed up to TV.

colm_mcm

There's a cable that goes into your house from outside. The cable carries digital TV data, broadband/phone data, and analogue tv channels. You can't receive the digital stuff without a working VM digital box, you can't receive the internet/phone without a working VM modem.
The analogue is different though, it's just signal. If the cable is connected to the network outside it just works - regardless of whether you're subscribed to digital TVs or internet or whatever.
The only way it stops is when they switch your cable feed off outside (cutting everything off) This only happens when there is no account active in the address.
As long as you have your broadband, and as long as VM do analogue, you'll have the chsnnels.

The Cush

AGrownUpTheySay wrote: »

The previous tenants were, apparently on NTL/Virgin and closed the account.
I have now got Virgin Broadband but not signed up to TV.

The analogue channels are carried on the same cable as broadband and digital TV, just a different frequency and they cannot be encrypted, so if you have the VM connection for broadband the analogue channels are there by default. At some point in the future, VM may switch off these channels for everyone.

AGrownUpTheySay

Ok, grand - kind of what I thought but had the wrong terminology - thanks all!

winston_1

stevek93 wrote: »

That is normal you cannot encrypt analogue, only way for them to stop you viewing the stations is for an engineer to come out to the property and physically disconnect it.

Really?

Sky managed it with video crypt.
The BBC managed it with Save.
The French managed it with Disquet.
Film net managed it with Matsu****a system.
The cable companies also managed it for years.

minikin

You should be grand, just plug out if you see this outside.

The Cush

winston_1 wrote: »

The cable companies also managed it for years.

Except for Cablelink/UPC/VM cable.

Sam Russell

They used to encrypt channels in the 'old' days by messing with the sync signals but the audio was in the clear.

Unless they give out decode boxes to their analogue subscribers, encoding analogue will not happen. They will stop the service first.

Wanderer78

Oh active line, I'd like to try something with that, can't be spoken about here though!

stevek93

Sam Russell wrote: »

They used to encrypt channels in the 'old' days by messing with the sync signals but the audio was in the clear.

Unless they give out decode boxes to their analogue subscribers, encoding analogue will not happen. They will stop the service first.

I remember that now, colours all over the screen but still could hear the channel.

cml387

I think the sync was left alone but each line was scrambled.
It would be unwise to leave older tv's with an unsynced timebase due to the fire hazard.

icdg

moved to cable

On the subject of encrypted analogue, it can be done and was done in other jurisdictions. In Ireland it's most prominent use was in Cork city where the service (apart from RTE/TV3/TG4) was fully encrypted due to a particular local piracy problem. Elsewhere it was very uncommon for basic cable to be encrypted. Sky Movies and Sports were. Very soon after NTL (as it was by that stage) launched it digital service, it moved all premium subscribers over (as I recall they effectively got digital for the same price as they had been paying for analogue) and discontinued all the premium channels on analogue.

thomas anderson.

How do you get these free channels? (have virgin media bb sub and previously a TV sub)

Do you need to run a cable from the box to the tv and retune? Or plug the cable going into the back of the box directly into the tv and retune? I can only pick up the Irish stations, when plugged directly in to the tv (so far)

cml387

You need an analogue tuner on your TV.
The channels are spread across the old Band I and Band III frequencies.

thomas anderson.

cml387 wrote: »

You need an analogue tuner on your TV.
The channels are spread across the old Band I and Band III frequencies.

Have an analogue tuner alright and can get the irish stations but none of the uk ones

Sam Russell

thomas anderson. wrote: »

Have an analogue tuner alright and can get the irish stations but none of the uk ones

The TV might not have a VHF tuner enabled, or you might only be tuning Digital. The VHF tuner is enabled by having the set as Country=Ireland and not Country=UK. The set would have VHF disabled if it is set to UK.

The Cush

thomas anderson. wrote: »

Have an analogue tuner alright and can get the irish stations but none of the uk ones

Where are you located? In Cork for example only the 4 Irish channels are available via analogue cable.

thomas anderson.

The Cush wrote: »

Where are you located? In Cork for example only the 4 Irish channels are available via analogue cable.

Ah

Yup in Cork. I had read somewhere that only the 4 Irish channels were available but was hoping it was mistake.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

They used to encrypt channels in the 'old' days by messing with the sync signals but the audio was in the clear.

Chorus did this in their ex-Irish Multichannel areas (with those rubbish Jerrold boxes that were really intended for NTSC) but ex-Cablelink used Cryptovision which looked very similar to Videocrypt on-screen.

ozmo

Can we combine the saorview (hd rte) with the analong (other stations)?

Using eg. This

http://www.freetv.ie/tv-aerial-and-satellite-combiner/

I would like use the analong + saorview on a tv that has 1 antanae socket.
But avoid the hassle of a separate saorview box with second remote etc.

Thanks

stevek93

Jasus alaonge has got popular again, I remember as a kid this was all we had to entertain ourselves with.

ozmo

stevek93 wrote: »

Jasus alaonge has got popular again, I remember as a kid this was all we had to entertain ourselves with.

I have my digital box banished to back room as I hate the the way the fan comes on at odd times even when the tv is off.

The number stations on Analog is fine for me, and not far off the quality of the UPC SCART Digital box we have.

So anyone know simpliest way I can get SV + VirginMedia Analog on my tv without a separate settop box... ?

stevek93

ozmo wrote: »

I have my digital box banished to back room as I hate the the way the fan comes on at odd times even when the tv is off.

The number stations on Analog is fine for me, and not far off the quality of the UPC SCART Digital box we have.

So anyone know simpliest way I can get SV + VirginMedia Analog on my tv without a separate settop box... ?

Wonder if you can you use a splitter, having the Soarview and analog on the one coax?

The Cush

stevek93 wrote: »

Wonder if you can you use a splitter, having the Soarview and analog on the one coax?

If you combine both and your Saorview comes from Three Rock there will be a signal conflict on UHF Ch.30. This frequency is used by Channel4 on analogue cable and Mux1 on Saorview.

stevek93

The Cush wrote: »

If you combine both and your Saorview comes from Three Rock there will be a signal conflict on UHF Ch.30. This frequency is used by Channel4 on analogue cable and Mux1 on Saorview.

Best to stick to analog so. You can get a decent picture if from the analog if you do it right.

Ste-

Is there any way of feeding these channels into something like TVheadend ?

L1011

Ste- wrote: »

Is there any way of feeding these channels into something like TVheadend ?

Use an ancient version that still supports Video4Linux and get multiple old WinTV cards. Otherwise no.

Ste-

L1011 wrote: »

Use an ancient version that still supports Video4Linux and get multiple old WinTV cards. Otherwise no.

When you say multiple do you mean one card per channel type thing.

L1011

Ste- wrote: »

When you say multiple do you mean one card per channel type thing.

Yeah. Not sure if multi channel analogue cards ever existed. You need to get PAL (I) compatible cards that support the full VHF band - some only support conventional Band III which means you miss these channels on normal setups:

CC 11 / 232 MHz - Sky1
CC 13 / 248 MHz - Setanta Ireland
CC 15 / 256 MHz - 3e*
CC 16 / 264 MHz - Nickelodeon/Comedy Central
CC 17 / 272 MHz - MTV
CC 18 / 280 MHz - Sky News

Capt'n Midnight

The Cush wrote: »

If you combine both and your Saorview comes from Three Rock there will be a signal conflict on UHF Ch.30. This frequency is used by Channel4 on analogue cable and Mux1 on Saorview.

If you could use a filter / diplexer to block 30 then you could mix the analog signal with the 50/54 from Kippure.

ozmo

ozmo wrote: »

Can we combine the saorview (hd rte) with the analong (other stations)?
http://www.freetv.ie/tv-aerial-and-satellite-combiner/
I would like use the analong + saorview on a tv that has 1 antanae socket.

I tried just wiring the two together using some connection block UPC left behind once (1 in and 2 out) and the Saorview signal was perfect but the analog stations although present, had bad reception. I've ordered the the connector above (2 in and 1 out) and Ill let you know if this is better.

My goal is to use the TV tuner to get both Saorview And the VM Stations so I dont need a second remote control.

Capt'n Midnight

IF and it's a big IF your set top box accepts CEC commands you could use one remote.

Some BluRay players do, Raspberry Pi does, not sure about chromecast
most satellite receivers DON'T, some SKY boxes freak out

so YMMV

or get a universal remote control, unless you stuck with something like Virgin Horizon or Sharp TV's that don't use IR.


Or use boxes / TV that can be controlled from app on PC/Tablet/phone

The Cush

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If you could use a filter / diplexer to block 30 then you could mix the analog signal with the 50/54 from Kippure.

If Kippure is available to you, not available to all, hence the reason Three Rock exists.

Thurston?

ozmo wrote: »

ozmo wrote: »

Can we combine the saorview (hd rte) with the analong (other stations)?

Using eg. This

http://www.freetv.ie/tv-aerial-and-satellite-combiner/

I would like use the analong + saorview on a tv that has 1 antanae socket.

... I've ordered the the connector above (2 in and 1 out) and Ill let you know if this is better.

The satellite/terrestrial combiner in the link? That's useless for what you're trying to do.

ozmo

Thurston? wrote: »

The satellite/terrestrial combiner in the link? That's useless for what you're trying to do.

Ahh- now you tell me- I waited a week before I ordered it.

I have no satelite, no sky no saorview box and no virgin digital box on this tv( digital box in another room).

Just a nice TV with builtin saorview that i want to get VirginMedia Analog cable + Saorview via rabbit ears on.

Both work brilliantly on their own - perfect clear signal with episode guides etc. - Rabbit ears antanae for Saorview and Cable for analog.
TV is great so I want use its tuner and not have add an external box via hdmi

TV has 1 coax input- but also one of those large Cam? Card Sockets?- is that anything I can use for saorview?

Thanks.

L1011

CI socket is useless in Ireland. No encrypted over the air and even though most TVs do DVB-C, Virgin will never release a CAM.

Dave..M

The requirement reminds me of the old manually tripped game/aerial switch from my C64 days (similar to below but more blocky 1980's tech possibly with crusty celotape holding it together and zero possibility for automation!)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coaxial-Female-Aerial-Switch-Splitter-x/dp/B000Q8FDIU

Vic_08

ozmo wrote: »

Ahh- now you tell me- I waited a week before I ordered it.

I have no satelite, no sky no saorview box and no virgin digital box on this tv( digital box in another room).

Just a nice TV with builtin saorview that i want to get VirginMedia Analog cable + Saorview via rabbit ears on.

Both work brilliantly on their own - perfect clear signal with episode guides etc. - Rabbit ears antanae for Saorview and Cable for analog.
TV is great so I want use its tuner and not have add an external box via hdmi

TV has 1 coax input- but also one of those large Cam? Card Sockets?- is that anything I can use for saorview?

Thanks.

A UHF/VHF combiner is what you need.


I had a tv connected to both analogue terrestrial and cable with one for years, worked OK.

both of these appear to be correct but the descriptions and pics are a bit vague.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Signal-Separator-Combiner-VHF-UHF-300-Analog-TV-Diplexer-Connectors-/322096758603

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fringe-Passive-Range-Inductive-Combiner-Splitter-/282257917151

The Cush

Vic_08 wrote: »

A UHF/VHF combiner is what you need.

I had a tv connected to both analogue terrestrial and cable with one for years, worked OK.

The only problem I see doing that is you lose the 3 UHF channels from the cable network via the VHF input.

CH 21 / 471 MHz - E4
CH 30 / 543 MHz - Channel 4
CH 34 / 575 MHz - Discovery Channel

Vic_08

The Cush wrote: »

The only problem I see doing that is you lose the 3 UHF channels from the cable network via the VHF input.

True.

I forgot that UPC had moved those channels from VHF band I.

thomas anderson.

Is there anything that can be done with the ethernet port on the old silver boxes, as in pick up stations or installed custom firmware?