Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

20-01-2017 03:30PM

Brian? wrote: »

To what? The burden of proof is not on me here. It's on the department of justice. If posters on here disagree it's up to them to come up with some proof.

You made a very definitive statement:

Brian? wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me. I can only reply to anti immigrant argument at a time. The post I replied to contended it was too costly to bring immigrants in, it's not. You seem to agree.

Next, they're adults pretending to be children. They're not

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/17/from-the-calais-jungle-to-croydon-migrant-children-arrive-in-bri/

Home Office documents show that if a refugee does not have a birth certificate, a Home Office screening officer can certify them as a child based on their “physical appearance” or “demeanour”.
The document states that refugees “should be treated as an adult if their physical appearance/demeanour very strongly suggests that they are significantly over 18 years of age”.

However, it says that “all other applicants should be afforded the benefit of the doubt and treated as children”.
The guide for Home Office officials adds: “All available sources of relevant information and evidence should be considered, since no single assessment technique, or combination of techniques, is likely to determine the applicant’s age with precision.”

If the Home Office cannot definitively assess their ages, do you have information that proves we can verify, without question, that all these lads are 16 and 17 years old?

_Kaiser_ · 20-01-2017 03:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If the Home Office cannot definitively assess their ages, do you have information that proves we can verify, without question, that all these lads are 16 and 17 years old?

Ultimately whether they're 16/17 or 19/20 is an unreliable means of determining eligibility anyway.

The culture many of these teens (lets go with that) are coming from and the life they will be accustomed to is very different to their Western counterparts of similar age and THIS is what should be considered.

While 16/17 year old kids in Europe may be texting their friends all day on Whatsapp, worrying about school and exams and dating, their migrant counterparts may be living very different - perhaps violent - lives with very different and hostile attitudes to things we take for granted in the West

It's these criteria that are the most important for determining how well someone may integrate into a host nation and it's the failure by the well-intentioned liberal advocates of such proposals to recognise and adopt to this that have led to the violent and social unrest we've seen in Europe in the past year/18 months.

But again, while we should certainly try to help IF we can (and without putting our own native and legitimate citizens at a disadvantage), there is no basis for resettling these migrants in Europe at the expense and security of those same native citizens.

Snake Plisken · 20-01-2017 04:10PM

It would be different if we were actually taking in women and children (and I don't mean your 17 year old going on 27 children like the UK got), still don't understand why we are taking these men in if they are in france that's up to France and the UK to sort out! Fitzgerald & Zappone haven't a clue!

20-01-2017 04:17PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ultimately whether they're 16/17 or 19/20 is an unreliable means of determining eligibility anyway.

The culture many of these teens (lets go with that) are coming from and the life they will be accustomed to is very different to their Western counterparts of similar age and THIS is what should be considered.

While 16/17 year old kids in Europe may be texting their friends all day on Whatsapp, worrying about school and exams and dating, their migrant counterparts may be living very different - perhaps violent - lives with very different and hostile attitudes to things we take for granted in the West

It's these criteria that are the most important for determining how well someone may integrate into a host nation and it's the failure by the well-intentioned liberal advocates of such proposals to recognise and adopt to this that have led to the violent and social unrest we've seen in Europe in the past year/18 months.

But again, while we should certainly try to help IF we can (and without putting our own native and legitimate citizens at a disadvantage), there is no basis for resettling these migrants in Europe at the expense and security of those same native citizens.

Fair point.

Any videos I've seen from truckers, (who have no political axe to grind), any conversations I've had with truckers who pass through Calais - all of them basically show/say the same thing.
These guys are not refugees, the vast majority are not children, they're violent criminals, who will do whatever it takes to achieve their wishes.

Why anyone would assume that they're suddenly going to become model citizens on arrival in Ireland is mind-boggling.

Mary63 · 20-01-2017 04:31PM

Its not so much the liberals denying there will be a problem thats the real issue, its denying what has actually happened as we saw in Cologne.That is the really scary thing, the public can't be protected from these"men" and when the inevitable happens those in authority say the victims are telling lies.

20-01-2017 04:52PM

Mary63, how do you feel about the Catholic church?

recedite · 20-01-2017 04:54PM

Lets stay on topic.

Brian? · 20-01-2017 06:47PM

Mary63 wrote: »

Its not so much the liberals denying there will be a problem thats the real issue, its denying what has actually happened as we saw in Cologne.That is the really scary thing, the public can't be protected from these"men" and when the inevitable happens those in authority say the victims are telling lies.

Those pesky liberals eh? I'm sick of them too. Give them hell Mary! I bet they'll even complain when you come up with final solution to the Muslim issue in the mother land.

You can trust me to be honest with you Mary, I'm a socialist. It's those Weasley liberals that are the real problem. I bet we'll look back in 50 years and recognise it was the liberals that caused all of these mass immigration problems. Especially that Angela Merkel, she may pretend to be a Christian democrat but I bet she's really a liberal. And Fianna Gael, they're really liberals and not Christian democrats too.

Liberal after liberal denying that any attacks took place in Cologne, I never saw them do it but you must be right. Hiding it from us as well. It may have been on every tv and radio station and
covered in every major newspaper, but that's them hiding it in plain sight. We know what they're up to eh?

/sarcasm

Brian? · 20-01-2017 06:51PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You made a very definitive statement:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/17/from-the-calais-jungle-to-croydon-migrant-children-arrive-in-bri/

If the Home Office cannot definitively assess their ages, do you have information that proves we can verify, without question, that all these lads are 16 and 17 years old?

I don't. It's not up to me to vet them. That's the department of justice job. You're going to need some fairly hefty evidence to contradict them. I'm placing my faith in the dept of justice, you're deciding out of thin air that these boys are older than they say they.

rarariot · 20-01-2017 06:56PM

Half of the "teens" that were let into Britain looked like older versions of Diego Costa. I doubt the department of justice over here would be much better at vetting them.

ancapailldorcha · 20-01-2017 07:10PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Mary63, how do you feel about the Catholic church?

recedite wrote: »

Lets stay on topic.

Stay on topic and report posts you feel are objectionable please.

20-01-2017 07:11PM

Brian? wrote: »

I don't. It's not up to me to vet them. That's the department of justice job. You're going to need some fairly hefty evidence to contradict them. I'm placing my faith in the dept of justice, you're deciding out of thin air that these boys are older than they say they.

The problem is, various European Depts of Justice have decided to do just that, by deciding, pretty much out of thin air, in the absence of Birth certificates, that many of these guys are under 18.

Which makes it very difficult to state, as you did, that they are definitely all children.

We read, again and again, that many of these people have no documentation.
Therefore, no Birth certificates. Making the system wide open to abuse.

Are you surprised that people don't want to be taken advantage of? Particularly when seeing the videos taken in Calais, and hearing the stories of the townspeople themselves?

I don't personally believe that every migrant is bad - but I emphatically believe that some of them do not deserve a reward for the utter contempt they show to other people.
There appear to be quite a few of the latter living in Calais - and I quite simply do not want Irish taxes to fund their insistence that they are entitled to do what they please...

Brian? · 21-01-2017 04:12AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The problem is, various European Depts of Justice have decided to do just that, by deciding, pretty much out of thin air, in the absence of Birth certificates, that many of these guys are under 18.

Which makes it very difficult to state, as you did, that they are definitely all children.

I was being a scallywag. Posters keep claiming that they're not really children, with zero evidence. Why shouldn't I claim the opposite. Both have equal validity.

Why are my statements held to a higher standard of evidence than everyone else?

We read, again and again, that many of these people have no documentation.
Therefore, no Birth certificates. Making the system wide open to abuse.

Are you surprised that people don't want to be taken advantage of? Particularly when seeing the videos taken in Calais, and hearing the stories of the townspeople themselves?

I don't personally believe that every migrant is bad - but I emphatically believe that some of them do not deserve a reward for the utter contempt they show to other people.
There appear to be quite a few of the latter living in Calais - and I quite simply do not want Irish taxes to fund their insistence that they are entitled to do what they please...

I am willing to take the chance to help some children find a better life. Simple. I have no problem with my taxes paying for it, it's a far better use for the money than some of the things they've paid for. Ministerial cars for example. Or Bertie's or pension. Or payments to bond holders.

Advbrd · 21-01-2017 04:42AM

Brian? wrote: »

Those pesky liberals eh? I'm sick of them too. Give them hell Mary! I bet they'll even complain when you come up with final solution to the Muslim issue in the mother land.

You can trust me to be honest with you Mary, I'm a socialist. It's those Weasley liberals that are the real problem. I bet we'll look back in 50 years and recognise it was the liberals that caused all of these mass immigration problems. Especially that Angela Merkel, she may pretend to be a Christian democrat but I bet she's really a liberal. And Fianna Gael, they're really liberals and not Christian democrats too.

Liberal after liberal denying that any attacks took place in Cologne, I never saw them do it but you must be right. Hiding it from us as well. It may have been on every tv and radio station and
covered in every major newspaper, but that's them hiding it in plain sight. We know what they're up to eh?

/sarcasm

The friggin gingers are taking over. I blame J.K. Rowling.

_Kaiser_ · 21-01-2017 11:08AM

Brian? wrote: »

I was being a scallywag. Posters keep claiming that they're not really children, with zero evidence. Why shouldn't I claim the opposite. Both have equal validity.

Why are my statements held to a higher standard of evidence than everyone else?

Because the evidence from authorities elsewhere suggests that they aren't and has been proven as such in several cases.

You're the one insisting that "well this time it'll be different" which is why you're being asked to back it up as the evidence and precedent doesn't support that idea(l).

I am willing to take the chance to help some children find a better life. Simple. I have no problem with my taxes paying for it, it's a far better use for the money than some of the things they've paid for. Ministerial cars for example. Or Bertie's or pension. Or payments to bond holders.

Well frankly, I'm not - and it would seem neither are an increasing number of our fellow citizens (both here in Ireland and in Europe as a whole). And as I said before too, let's not forget the over €600 million annually this country ALREADY SPENDS on foreign aid.

I'll agree with you on the examples you give but Bertie (and the many others) has a legal right to a pension (albeit hugely inflated) as a citizen of this country. The bondholder payments are a little murkier of course but there's no going back on that now - unless as you suggested to me, you lobby your TD perhaps?

But I agree, I'd far rather see money being spent to improve the situation of those who need and have a right to it - the homeless citizens of this country, those people lying on hospital trolleys, the under-resourced Gardai and the reopening of Garda stations, the ordinary taxpayers who are struggling to keep a roof over their family's head or their children in childcare while they work to pay for all this.

The above are indeed far better uses of the limited resources we have - and that includes not importing the problems of others with no ties to this State (or even Europe) and who offer nothing but additional strain on those resources and Irish /European society as a whole..again as we've already seen elsewhere on the continent but which you still reckon "will be different this time!" with no evidence to support that conclusion.

Your ideals are well intentioned, but they're not realistic in the face of the actual situation we're faced with.

rgossip30 · 21-01-2017 12:02PM

Brian? wrote: »

I don't. It's not up to me to vet them. That's the department of justice job. You're going to need some fairly hefty evidence to contradict them. I'm placing my faith in the dept of justice, you're deciding out of thin air that these boys are older than they say they.

I wonder will there be a public progress report on these 'children '?

21-01-2017 01:57PM

rgossip30 wrote: »

I wonder will there be a public progress report on these 'children '?

What sort of progress report?

21-01-2017 02:59PM

Brian? wrote: »

I was being a scallywag. Posters keep claiming that they're not really children, with zero evidence. Why shouldn't I claim the opposite. Both have equal validity.

Why are my statements held to a higher standard of evidence than everyone else?

I am willing to take the chance to help some children find a better life. Simple. I have no problem with my taxes paying for it, it's a far better use for the money than some of the things they've paid for. Ministerial cars for example. Or Bertie's or pension. Or payments to bond holders.

Both really don't have equal validity, unfortunately.

The experience of other Countries - the UK being particularly valid, since that is/was their intended destination - raises serious doubts about whether, in fact, these lads are children or adults.
Hence, my question.

I'd be willing to take a chance on children. But I want to know that they are children.
There are plenty of young children in camps in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, etc.

I'd prefer to take them, in the certain knowledge that they are children.

rgossip30 wrote: »

I wonder will there be a public progress report on these 'children '?

Ha! If we're lucky, we'll get a photo op with some TD, with a child/young teenager (usually female) who will trot out the obligatory "I'm grateful to Ireland" speech, to make us feel all warm and fuzzy.
Any that cause trouble, we will hear nothing about, because it would "stoke racial tensions."

And the more facts are suppressed, and become known through social media channels, etc. - the more racial tensions really will be stoked....

rgossip30 · 21-01-2017 03:32PM

bubblypop wrote: »

What sort of progress report?

I thought that was obvious as to how they are integrating and in the long term will they work or just stay on welfare .
I expect a veil of secrecy as this experiment is not going to go well .

Mary63 · 21-01-2017 03:43PM

If anyone steps forward to offer your home as a foster placement don't forget that one of these teenagers took an axe from his foster family and attacked innocent passengers on a train in Germany.This is what you are up against and its the reason Angela Merkel changed her mind about taking refugees in and tried to bribe Turkey to take them back.Turkey while they though they had a chance of getting into the EU was willing to clean up Angelas mess but now that they won't get into the EU they have told Angela to deck off.The Turks are loathed in Germany and Austria even though they have been there for decades, they haven't integrated at all.

Brian? · 21-01-2017 05:14PM

Mary63 wrote: »

If anyone steps forward to offer your home as a foster placement don't forget that one of these teenagers took an axe from his foster family and attacked innocent passengers on a train in Germany.This is what you are up against and its the reason Angela Merkel changed her mind about taking refugees in and tried to bribe Turkey to take them back.Turkey while they though they had a chance of getting into the EU was willing to clean up Angelas mess but now that they won't get into the EU they have told Angela to deck off.The Turks are loathed in Germany and Austria even though they have been there for decades, they haven't integrated at all.

I'm currently undergoing the assessment to foster children. I'll happily foster any of these kids.

The Turks aren't loathed in Germany, except by the extreme right. Have you been to Germany? Especially in Berlin there are Turkish businesses all over the place, no centralised and isolated.

From what I can gather the Austrians don't really like anyone.

21-01-2017 05:44PM

Brian? wrote: »

I'm currently undergoing the assessment to foster children. I'll happily foster any of these kids.

The Turks aren't loathed in Germany, except by the extreme right. Have you been to Germany? Especially in Berlin there are Turkish businesses all over the place, no centralised and isolated.

From what I can gather the Austrians don't really like anyone.

Now. Now. Brian.

That's racist.....:D:D:D

Brian? · 21-01-2017 07:52PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now. Now. Brian.

That's racist.....:D:D:D

Is Austrian a race?

21-01-2017 08:37PM

rgossip30 wrote: »

I thought that was obvious as to how they are integrating and in the long term will they work or just stay on welfare .
I expect a veil of secrecy as this experiment is not going to go well .

Why would you expect a progress report on people's lives?
Fairly invasive don't you think?
Do you have progress reports on any Of The refugees that arrived here years ago?

Mary63 · 21-01-2017 08:48PM

I think we are entitled to see a return on our eleven million in taxes.These "teenagers"will no doubt qualify for free university fees too and I think they should be given loans not grants.Their parents haven't paid taxes here so why should they get any grants to go to University.

We don't need their names, they can all be given a number and their progress can be tracked, if they feck off across the border then we stop paying the accommodation suppliers for the cost of housing them.

Im presuming they won't have child benefit paid directly into the bank accounts that Zappone will set up for them.

The Germans and Austrians hate the Turks, the female German and Austrians especially, they hate the way Turks hang out the train stations ogling the white women, I saw a lot of these men in Munich at the stations.There weren't any in Berlin, they must be removed off the streets there.

I wouldn't foster any of those kids, I wouldn't put my family or my neighbours in danger, they would be up in the box room being radicalised and I wouldn't get a minutes peace from worrying about hatchets and knives etc.I also wouldn't like their attitude to my teenage daughters, God, no,couldn't be doing with that.

21-01-2017 08:51PM

Brian? wrote: »

Is Austrian a race?

According to one of the many definitions on Dictionary.com.

any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: eg: the Dutch race.

Interesting question, though, given their Germanic origins.

Mary63 · 21-01-2017 09:09PM

If you take in one of those "teenagers" you could think for years that he was perfectly well integrated, he might even go to college and get a good qualification.Some of the Paris, Brussels and Berlin bombers were definitely special needs, they were duped into planting the haversacks with bombs.Some of them though had grown up in the West, had availed of millions of euros being spent on them including a third level education and yet they jumped at the chance to go to Syria so they could engage in mass rape of women and some very young teenage girls.

You will find the friends and neighbours of these people will say, sure he ws grand, he came to our christmas party or he lived beside me for years and helped me with the bins.This is all an act, its a pretend life until the time is right to commit mass murder.Its now a case of when we are going to be attacked here and not if.Its just a matter of whether it will be an attack at the National Concert hall or an attack at an outdoor event, it could even happen at the ST Patricks day parade.There are bollards now being erected in Europe where the public gather, you can bet there will be no bollards or no measures in place on O Connell street on March 17th this year, we are sitting ducks.

Brian? · 21-01-2017 10:10PM

Mary63 wrote: »

I think we are entitled to see a return on our eleven million in taxes.These "teenagers"will no doubt qualify for free university fees too and I think they should be given loans not grants.Their parents haven't paid taxes here so why should they get any grants to go to University.

We don't need their names, they can all be given a number and their progress can be tracked, if they feck off across the border then we stop paying the accommodation suppliers for the cost of housing them.

Im presuming they won't have child benefit paid directly into the bank accounts that Zappone will set up for them.

The Germans and Austrians hate the Turks, the female German and Austrians especially, they hate the way Turks hang out the train stations ogling the white women, I saw a lot of these men in Munich at the stations.There weren't any in Berlin, they must be removed off the streets there.

I wouldn't foster any of those kids, I wouldn't put my family or my neighbours in danger, they would be up in the box room being radicalised and I wouldn't get a minutes peace from worrying about hatchets and knives etc.I also wouldn't like their attitude to my teenage daughters, God, no,couldn't be doing with that.

I'll make sure they don't get the box room. It's the most radicalising room in the house I hear.

Brian? · 21-01-2017 10:11PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

According to one of the many definitions on Dictionary.com.

Interesting question, though, given their Germanic origins.

I am not a believer in race to be honest. It's all so bleeding arbitrary.

b_mac2 · 21-01-2017 11:13PM

Brian? wrote: »

I am not a believer in race to be honest. It's all so bleeding arbitrary.

Yeah I don't believe in human anatomy either.

Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

Comments