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Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

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Comments

  • #1352
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    One good thing that's come out of it is that the well known media outlets now need to be very very careful in what they post, one slip up like we seen in Washington post with the Russian grid hacking story and they get slaughtered.

    I guess one question that's worth asking is, who fact checks the fact checkers?

    Fake news is not simply incorrect or unverified news. Media outlets can make mistakes. Fake news is saying stuff like "Obama is an African muslim" and then saying there's no proof otherwise as if that's somehow evidence.


  • #1353
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,436 ✭✭✭✭listermint





    Very Very hard for any of the trumpers to argue with any of this.

    Plain facts delivered plainly.


  • #1354
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    listermint wrote: »
    Very Very hard for any of the trumpers to argue with any of this.

    Plain facts delivered plainly.

    It isn't really. Either ignore or blame HC. Simples


  • #1355
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Fake news is not simply incorrect or unverified news. Media outlets can make mistakes. Fake news is saying stuff like "Obama is an African muslim" and then saying there's no proof otherwise as if that's somehow evidence.

    My favourite one was the podesto / cooking conspiracy theory.


  • #1356
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Fake news is not simply incorrect or unverified news. Media outlets can make mistakes. Fake news is saying stuff like "Obama is an African muslim" and then saying there's no proof otherwise as if that's somehow evidence.
    Fake news also includes targeted news and click bait, where a story is constructed to fit an audience. It's not so much lies as news presented to suit a persons bias. They're peoples favorite news sources and include all the non mainstream medias that are just saying what the people want to hear.


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  • #1357
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,949 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    They are a counter balance to Fox.
    Is that not MSNBC?


  • #1358
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Fake news is not simply incorrect or unverified news. Media outlets can make mistakes. Fake news is saying stuff like "Obama is an African muslim" and then saying there's no proof otherwise as if that's somehow evidence.

    I have to agree here. Fake news, to me, is manufactured deliberately to feed an agenda or purpose. It is intentionally misleading or false.

    Traditional media outlets report the facts, subject to their fact checking and bias. If they make a mistake and report something incorrectly, that is not "fake news" in my eyes. It doesn't have the same malicious intent and shouldn't be seen as such.


  • #1359
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭conorhal


    dudara wrote: »
    I have to agree here. Fake news, to me, is manufactured deliberately to feed an agenda or purpose. It is intentionally misleading or false.

    Traditional media outlets report the facts, subject to their fact checking and bias. If they make a mistake and report something incorrectly, that is not "fake news" in my eyes. It doesn't have the same malicious intent and shouldn't be seen as such.

    At least 'fake news' is easily contradicted by fact checking. The kind of fake news our mainstream media tends to disseminate is often slippier since they tend to 'fake' their news through self-censorship and sins of omission.

    You often have to read between the lines of an article to get to the truth of 'truck crashes'.
    When it became apparent the last 'truck crash involving a Polish driver' was an act of terrorism, the Indo headline changed to 'night of terror' with a banner featuring two Islamist terror incidents ( inGermany and Turkey) and a third image in the banner, a shooting at a mosque in Switzerland.
    By linking the shooting to their reportage on the other terror attacks it was HEAVILY implied that it might be a right wing attack on Muslims. The attempt to link the unrelated shooting (which was a dispute between individuals at the mosque) and the other two attacks was blatant fake whataboutery. They knew it, reading between the lines of the story I knew it, but that didn't stop the attempt at propagandising.

    Which is worse, the easily disproved story or the one that leads you to a false conclusion by only presenting incomplete information or omitting the obvious or logical question that would explain the situation? This is why you see a paranoid focus on 'Russian attacks on democracy' but almost no reporting on the substance of what was leaked, which also showed a breathtaking 'attack on democracy'.


  • #1360
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    I don't deny that newspapers have bias - we all know that they do, and we only have to look at some of the Brexit coverage in our neighbours to see it happening.

    People naturally look for sources that confirm their bias. We're all probably guilty of that to some degree.

    In the case that you referenced, those events did all happen at the same time, and it wasn't unreasonable to initially think they were all linked. It's always a rush to get papers to press so a line in time has to be drawn. Add in the newspaper's own leanings and you get the article. The real question is if they change their story once the facts are known and become clearer? If they persist with the story despite the facts pointing otherwise, then that is deliberating misleading.


  • #1361
    Trent Houseboat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Trent Houseboat


    conorhal wrote:
    You often have to read between the lines of an article to get to the truth of 'truck crashes'.
    When it became apparent the last 'truck crash involving a Polish driver' was an act of terrorism, the Indo headline changed to 'night of terror' with a banner featuring two Islamist terror incidents ( inGermany and Turkey) and a third image in the banner, a shooting at a mosque in Switzerland.
    By linking the shooting to their reportage on the other terror attacks it was HEAVILY implied that it might be a right wing attack on Muslims. The attempt to link the unrelated shooting (which was a dispute between individuals at the mosque) and the other two attacks was blatant fake whataboutery. They knew it, reading between the lines of the story I knew it, but that didn't stop the attempt at propagandising.

    Which is worse, the easily disproved story or the one that leads you to a false conclusion by only presenting incomplete information or omitting the obvious or logical question that would explain the situation? This is why you see a paranoid focus on 'Russian attacks on democracy' but almost no reporting on the substance of what was leaked, which also showed a breathtaking 'attack on democracy'.
    Is it not more likely that a person would associate all three incidents with islamic terrorism?
    It was sloppy headline writing for sure, but I think you're seeing an agenda you want to see.

    The over arching theme of the fake news false equivalency is people trying to pretend that they weren't thick for believing obvious lies but everyone else is a sheep for believing The Washington Post who had to print a retraction and are only telling the truth 98% of the time.


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  • #1362
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    In an interview with the Washington Post Trump said one of the ways he's going to Make America Great Again (tm) is thusly:
    Donald Trump wrote:
    Being a great president has to do with a lot of things, but one of them is being a great cheerleader for the country,” Trump said. “And we’re going to show the people as we build up our military, we’re going to display our military.

    “That military may come marching down Pennsylvania Avenue. That military may be flying over New York City and Washington, D.C., for parades. I mean, we’re going to be showing our military,” he added.

    Hands up - what kind of Leader (possibly Glorious), really, really likes holding big military parades?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/how-donald-trump-came-up-with-make-america-great-again/2017/01/17/fb6acf5e-dbf7-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html


  • #1363
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,713 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Slow day, no twitter scandals, no big time lawsuits against him...wait... oh, one of his advisors is yet another swamp-dwelling racist. And good friends with his son-in-law, soon to be another advisor. I wonder if any President elect has had family members on the team, like, did Bush 1 give Bush 2 a job in the whitehouse? He'd have been old enough. Dad probably knew how dumb he was and avoided it.

    Anyway, back to the PEOTUS:
    http://www.salon.com/2017/01/18/donald-trumps-newest-white-house-adviser-accused-of-hiring-white-men-to-attack-african-americans-in-his-clubs/

    Summary:
    "Two black men are currently appealing a case from 2014 that says (Incoming advisor and friend of the son-in-law Reed) Cordish’s clubs hired white men to beat them with the aim of keeping black people out of the area."

    Interesting quote from the Trump Team: "Reed has been a Vice President with his family business for over 20 years. The company has been nationally lauded for taking on the toughest urban redevelopments and revitalizing urban-cores. They have been vetted by Government agencies across the country including being awarded gaming licenses in multiple states."

    Personally, being awarded gaming licenses is no praise in my book. Gambling is bad stuff and Gambling impresarios treat with very dubious people.

    One example, here's Trump doing business with the mafia: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/02/ted-cruz/yes-donald-trump-has-been-linked-mob/


  • #1364
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Slow day, no twitter scandals,

    Just low level twitter embarrassment

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/821697182235496450

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/821699672687448064

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/821705440178348033

    At any other time a president elect making statements like this would be considered news. Trump does it so often it's just background noise.

    btw, this is what he was upset about.
    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-tweets-that-nbc-is-putting-out-fake-news-about-job-creation-but-is-that-what-hes-really-upset-about/


  • #1365
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    And I forgot to mention that he also made a plug for his hotel calling it the winter whitehouse.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/821772494864580614


  • #1366
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    And just so people can remember what kind of guy he is.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/507158574670573568

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/258593090107998208


  • #1367
    Trent Houseboat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Trent Houseboat


    Igotadose wrote: »
    I wonder if any President elect has had family members on the team, like, did Bush 1 give Bush 2 a job in the whitehouse? He'd have been old enough. Dad probably knew how dumb he was and avoided it.

    I think the made a law against it after JFK gave his brother a job.


  • #1368
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    Grayson wrote: »
    And just so people can remember what kind of guy he is.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/507158574670573568

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/258593090107998208

    Selfish -ignorant- son of a bitch.


  • #1369
    SkinnyBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭SkinnyBuddha


    HellSquirrel wrote: »
    Selfish -ignorant- son of a bitch.
    He really is a fukking idiot.


  • #1370
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Grayson wrote: »
    Just low level twitter embarrassment

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/821697182235496450

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/821699672687448064

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/821705440178348033

    At any other time a president elect making statements like this would be considered news. Trump does it so often it's just background noise.

    btw, this is what he was upset about.
    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-tweets-that-nbc-is-putting-out-fake-news-about-job-creation-but-is-that-what-hes-really-upset-about/
    And to think, people used to try to argue he's not the walking definition of narcissism! :pac:


  • #1371
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,713 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    I think there'll be a tweet about this tomorrow, biased media fake news won't invite them to the 'winter wh*re white house' (gag!).

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article127231799.html

    Summary: "The FBI and five other law enforcement and intelligence agencies have collaborated for months in an investigation into Russian attempts to influence the November election, including whether money from the Kremlin covertly aided President-elect Donald Trump, two people familiar with the matter said."


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  • #1372
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,949 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Probably my favourite Trump tweet.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/258262904091058176?lang=en


  • #1373
    conditioned games
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭conditioned games


    Igotadose wrote: »
    I think there'll be a tweet about this tomorrow, biased media fake news won't invite them to the 'winter wh*re white house' (gag!).

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article127231799.html

    Summary: "The FBI and five other law enforcement and intelligence agencies have collaborated for months in an investigation into Russian attempts to influence the November election, including whether money from the Kremlin covertly aided President-elect Donald Trump, two people familiar with the matter said."

    Their getting really desperate to try prove Russia somehow interfered with the US election. So far they've produced no evidence and a dossier that proved to be inaccurate. You'd nearly feel sorry for the US Intelligence community, Dems and republicans for been caught with their pants down. Still though they have the Rothschild controlled mainstream media on their side to spread their lies and there's no shortage of gullible people believing them.


  • #1374
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    How has it been proven that the dossier is inaccurate? It's unverified but I have seen absolutely no proof that it is inaccurate.

    What I found interesting in that linked article was this snippet.
    The BBC reported that the FBI had obtained a warrant on Oct. 15 from the highly secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court allowing investigators access to bank records and other documents about potential payments and money transfers related to Russia. One of McClatchy’s sources confirmed the report.

    Susan Hennessey, a former attorney for the National Security Agency who is now a fellow at the Brookings Institution, said she had no knowledge that a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant had been issued. However, she stressed that such warrants are issued only if investigators can demonstrate “probable cause” that a crime has been committed and the information in Steele’s dossier couldn’t have met that test.

    “If, in fact, law enforcement has obtained a FISA warrant, that is an indication that additional evidence exists outside of the dossier,” she said.

    Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article127231799.html#storylink=cpy

    It's going to be an interesting few months. I must check Paddypowers numbers on the Orange Messiah getting impeached, it will be worth a flutter I reckon.


  • #1375
    SkinnyBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭SkinnyBuddha


    gandalf wrote: »
    it will be worth a flutter I reckon.
    just a wee bit over evens the last time I checked.

    No way he's gonna last 4yrs.


  • #1376
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    Hande hoche! wrote: »
    Probably my favourite Trump tweet.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/258262904091058176?lang=en

    Lol.
    He's right though, it is addictive garbage.


  • #1377
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,436 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    conditioned games wrote: »
    Their getting really desperate to try prove Russia somehow interfered with the US election. So far they've produced no evidence and a dossier that proved to be inaccurate. You'd nearly feel sorry for the US Intelligence community, Dems and republicans for been caught with their pants down. Still though they have the Rothschild controlled mainstream media on their side to spread their lies and there's no shortage of gullible people believing them.

    Money down they are waiting on him to be elected so he can go through an embarrassing impeachment process. Why because he burned so many bridges getting to where he has.

    Watch this space put money on it..


  • #1378
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,949 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Satriale wrote: »
    Lol.
    He's right though, it is addictive garbage.
    Very, very true. Must go off the stuff for lent.


  • #1379
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    gandalf wrote: »
    How has it been proven that the dossier is inaccurate? It's unverified but I have seen absolutely no proof that it is inaccurate.

    What I found interesting in that linked article was this snippet.



    It's going to be an interesting few months. I must check Paddypowers numbers on the Orange Messiah getting impeached, it will be worth a flutter I reckon.

    The stuff about his lawyer meeting Kremlin operatives turned out to be fake.

    https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/819187673961287681?lang=en


  • #1380
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    listermint wrote: »
    Money down they are waiting on him to be elected so he can go through an embarrassing impeachment process. Why because he burned so many bridges getting to where he has.

    Watch this space put money on it..

    How much?

    I've been hearing the same thing since before the primaries.


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  • #1381
    conditioned games
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭conditioned games


    listermint wrote: »
    conditioned games wrote: »
    Their getting really desperate to try prove Russia somehow interfered with the US election. So far they've produced no evidence and a dossier that proved to be inaccurate. You'd nearly feel sorry for the US Intelligence community, Dems and republicans for been caught with their pants down. Still though they have the Rothschild controlled mainstream media on their side to spread their lies and there's no shortage of gullible people believing them.

    Money down they are waiting on him to be elected so he can go through an embarrassing impeachment process. Why because he burned so many bridges getting to where he has.

    Watch this space put money on it..

    I'd rather not waste money on something that is nonsensical. We all pretty know Russia had no involvement in the US elections, just another American themed blame Russia for everything like they have been going about for the last 6 years. Its getting embarrassing for them now.


This discussion has been closed.
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