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Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

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  • #1082
    wildgreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭wildgreen


    gandalf wrote: »
    Just reading the stories about Trump's interview with Michael Gove this morning. It's like Putin has given Donald a script and he is now reciting it like an obident lapdog. To quote a Trumpism, such a tainted President to be.

    That's shocking!!!

    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-dodges-trade-question-in-michael-gove-interview-10730633

    Trump has suggested he would be keen to strike a trade deal with the UK

    Mr Trump said he believed Europe's migration crisis had been the deciding factor in the referendum.

    Mr Trump also signalled his desire to reach a new agreement with Russia on reducing stocks of nuclear weapons.

    He did have some criticism for his Russian counterpart, calling Moscow's intervention in Syria "a very bad thing" which had created a "terrible humanitarian situation".

    But, in comments that will please Mr Putin, Mr Trump told Germany's newspaper the NATO military alliance was "obsolete"

    But he revealed Mrs May had written to him and said: "I love the UK.

    Mr Trump was scathing about US foreign policy, describing the invasion of Iraq as "possibly the worst decision ever made in the history of our country".

    He said Afghanistan was "going badly" and the offensive to retake Mosul - Islamic State's last stronghold in Iraq - had been a disaster.


  • #1083
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    On the very last day of the election, Trump tweeted a couple of hours before for a extra stop in Michigan and 40,000 people showed up at 1am for his final rally. I think the high energy was the main reason he won.

    You can blame the FBI and what not, but none of that would have happened if his opponent wasn't doing shady things. Only have themselves to blame.

    That's not always proven the case in other parts of the world, just because the US is generally considered "civilised" doesn't mean that they too can't do idiotic things. Those are pictures of rallies. No **** they've got people at them. Clinton rallies did too and she lost. Sanders rallies had lots of people at them. Even Jill Stein could fill a room.

    Given how close it was, you're absolutely convinced that Russian hacking and the mire of the email scandal that in the end, proved to have nothing behind it had nothing to do with it? Given how close it was, you're absolutely convinced that if the RNC info had been released, and the FBI apparently had this document all year while pushing the email business, it would have made no difference?

    If lies hadn't been told repeatedly about Benghazi and some murky accusations made against the Clinton Foundation, do you think that might have made a difference, given how close it really was?

    I am impressed how you can be so remarkably certain that they had absolutely no impact.

    Maybe they did. And maybe there's a situation now where the legitimacy of the 2016-2020 presidential term has been actively compromised by the interference of Russia in the election and what is looking more and more like serious corruption within the FBI. But this is okay because she obviously deserved to lose because she's unelectable?

    Anyone's unelectable if enough ****'s flung. Except, oddly, Trump, because there's so MUCH **** that one can't possibly keep track of it all. It really does say something very odd about human beings.

    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    Because idiots who support Trump do it, it's fine?

    It's not fine on either side, to pretend groups like the alt regressive left aren't just as nasty and vile as groups like the alt right just isn't right.

    That's a bit reaching, but let's not pretend that you're also not cherrypicking individual events to ascribe to millions of people. And s/he was clearly pointing out the hypocrisy of cussing out the left for it when this sort of business has been going on, loudly and blatantly, for months from the far right. There has been a -hell- of a lot of hypocrisy from "the right" that anyone acting up and/or down to SAYING anything about the election must be silenced and damn that people on the right, up to and including officially, were doing their best to swing things by fair means or foul. Including "I will accept the results...if I win" and "The only way we can lose this, and I honestly believe this, is if we're cheated". And the whole push to "go spot an ethnic" on election day and just stare at them a bit. If you can make them go home without voting, great.

    Even people who support Trump should be sickened by that in their own country. That they are not should be a matter of shame, not pride. Same as people should be disgusted at anyone who sends death threats to Andrea Bocelli for singing at the inauguration. But at least such disgraceful tactics don't have an official stamp of approval on it.
    dolanbaker wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe that he is stupid enough to get caught, after all he has a good legal team (allegedly) who are well aware that every attempt will be made to dethrone him.

    What saves him is that he doesn't bother. People are so taken aback by his absolute lack of any sort of shame that it's rather hard to do anything about it. The reaction ends up, even in official circles, as "Is he even allowed to do that?" "Fcuked if I know - apparently?"

    We've somehow treated rock bottom as an aspiration and not only has the world got said rock bottom, we then started drilling, presumably for oil.


  • #1084
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Nato is obsolete. Did he really just say that? He's even more compromised than I thought. Putin must have some serious dirt on him.


  • #1085
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Nato is obsolete. Did he really just say that? He's even more compromised than I thought. Putin must have some serious dirt on him.

    Honestly, I doubt he fully understands what NATO is, bar that it's upsetting Pootikins >.>


  • #1086
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Trump is a businessman, deals are what it revolves around.

    I think his thoughts on Nato, US foreign policy etc have nothing to do with the military side of things but he is simply looking at whether Nato adds anything to the US. He feels it doesn't. US are the biggest military spenders in the world, dwarfing all other nations, but it does not translate itself into power, so what is the point.

    From his point of view, what does he care if Ukraine is part of Russia or not, or Poland or Finland. He feels he can do business in those countries regardless of who 'owns' them so why bother getting into a stand off which adds nothing.

    And lets face it, most of Europe has been abusing Nato for years. Part of Nato but first to give out about US actions. Now you can very rightly say that Europe is right to give out, but Trumps view seems to be you are either in the club or not (a bt like GWB with or akin us!).

    The above is all just my opinion btw.


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  • #1087
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    I can understand the anti-establishment element to supporting Trump, but genuinely how can his supporters continue to remain ignorant to the blatantly pro-Russian policies and lines he's been coming out with recently?
    Putin does not have the interests of the US at heart. If NATO falls apart because the US can no longer be relied upon, then that is a huge blow to US hegemony. Trump is incredibly short-sighted. He see's money being spent on policing other countries and citizens, but cannot see why that it so. It keeps the US as the pre-eminent country in the world. 

    I read elsewhere a week ago about what is likely to happen with nuclear armament discussions with Russia. Russia does not have enough money to reach their permitted stockpile of nuclear warheads under the New START treaty. They can only manage 1500 while the US has 2000. This gives the US a nuclear advantage. For years they've wanted to renegotiate the treaty to bring the maximum number of warheads down to their level to get rid of the US advantage but this has been resisted by Obama. It was said that Putin will 'negotiate' a reduction in nuclear stockpile of the US to bring it down to the their levels. Trump will publicise this as a joint-approach to nuclear disarmament.
    I was reminded of this after reading the news this morning saying Trump wanted to reduce stocks of nuclear weapons with Russia. He is going to destroy the status of the US in the world.


  • #1088
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Trump is a businessman, deals are what it revolves around.

    I think his thoughts on Nato, US foreign policy etc have nothing to do with the military side of things but he is simply looking at whether Nato adds anything to the US. He feels it doesn't. US are the biggest military spenders in the world, dwarfing all other nations, but it does not translate itself into power, so what is the point.

    From his point of view, what does he care if Ukraine is part of Russia or not, or Poland or Finland. He feels he can do business in those countries regardless of who 'owns' them so why bother getting into a stand off which adds nothing.

    And lets face it, most of Europe has been abusing Nato for years. Part of Nato but first to give out about US actions. Now you can very rightly say that Europe is right to give out, but Trumps view seems to be you are either in the club or not (a bt like GWB with or akin us!).

    The above is all just my opinion btw.

    I fail to see an issue with being part of nato and giving out about us actuons abroad? Member nations are not required to agree on every military action that other members take.

    I agree on the rest though. It is a business and he simply does not care about eastern Europe.


  • #1089
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Trump is a businessman, deals are what it revolves around.

    I think his thoughts on Nato, US foreign policy etc have nothing to do with the military side of things but he is simply looking at whether Nato adds anything to the US.  He feels it doesn't.  US are the biggest military spenders in the world, dwarfing all other nations, but it does not translate itself into power, so what is the point.

    From his point of view, what does he care if Ukraine is part of Russia or not, or Poland or Finland.  He feels he can do business in those countries regardless of who 'owns' them so why bother getting into a stand off which adds nothing.

    And lets face it, most of Europe has been abusing Nato for years.  Part of Nato but first to give out about US actions.  Now you can very rightly say that Europe is right to give out, but Trumps view seems to be you are either in the club or not (a bt like GWB with or akin us!).

    The above is all just my opinion btw.
    NATO is one of the single biggest tools the US has to ensure its control in the world. Trump lacks any ability to see into the medium-long term. If he loses NATO, the US loses a large amount of influence over Europe. It then spurs the EU to militarise itself (we can already see this with the recent formation of the EDF in the EU) and suddenly we have an independent military power no longer reliant on the US.
    Interestingly Article 5 of NATO has only been invoked once, and it was when the 'parasitic' European members came to the defence of the US following 9/11 and joined the US in it's invasion of Afghanistan.


  • #1090
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,949 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Anita Blow wrote: »

    I read elsewhere a week ago about what is likely to happen with nuclear armament discussions with Russia. Russia does not have enough money to reach their permitted stockpile of nuclear warheads under the New START treaty. They can only manage 1500 while the US has 2000. This gives the US a nuclear advantage. For years they've wanted to renegotiate the treaty to bring the maximum number of warheads down to their level to get rid of the US advantage but this has been resisted by Obama. It was said that Putin will 'negotiate' a reduction in nuclear stockpile of the US to bring it down to the their levels. Trump will publicise this as a joint-approach to nuclear disarmament.
    I was reminded of this after reading the news this morning saying Trump wanted to reduce stocks of nuclear weapons with Russia. He is going to destroy the status of the US in the world.

    Would that not be a case of doing the right thing, albeit for the wrong reasons? Surely a reduction in nuclear weapons would be seen as a good thing...


  • #1091
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Now that Paul Anka, Andrea Bocelli and Jennifer Holliday have withdrawn from the inauguration:



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  • #1092
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Grayson wrote: »
    He's a petty, vindictive liar. And if we don't like/respect him then we're snowflakes having a meltdown?
    .

    The nightmare for people like yourself is that a Trump presidency is a success. To many he is already a failure, even though he has not had one day in office.

    All they have is persistent post like yours.


  • #1093
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    The nightmare for people like yourself is that a Trump presidency is a success. To many he is already a failure, even though he has not had one day in office.

    All they have is persistent post like yours.

    And then there's the others that are convinced that he's going to give everyone in America a job, wipe out Isis, cure cancer and develop the ability to fart rainbows. Truth is none of us know what way its going to go. I think he's a moron and the signs don't look good based on what he's done and who he's hired but I'll refrain from passing judgement yet. Let's see what happens in his first 100 days…


  • #1094
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    The nightmare for people like yourself is that a Trump presidency is a success. To many he is already a failure, even though he has not had one day in office.

    All they have is persistent post like yours.

    Well, he's a failed businessman for a start so the omens aren't good. Luckily, his mega-rich dodgy father bailed him out after giving him serious wedge to get started in the first place. Also, his approval ratings are lower than any recent president elect by a country mile. Plus he's alienated every intelligence agency and most of the press. And rather than draining the swamp, he's repopulated it with loons and bankers. He's made extremely provocative ambassadorial appointments to China and Israel while simultaneously causing a serious diplomatic spat with the world's biggest country.

    All the above are facts, facts that exist even before he gets started. Maybe those facts indicate a successful presidency but I doubt it.


  • #1095
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1096
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Not at all and I believe his election is a direct result of people voting for 'HOPE' eight years ago.


  • #1097
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Hande hoche! wrote: »
    Would that not be a case of doing the right thing, albeit for the wrong reasons? Surely a reduction in nuclear weapons would be seen as a good thing...

    It is a good thing but it means it should be watched extremely carefully for what is going exactly and the other details around the deal.
    If he just reduces nuclear weapons with the deal then I am fine for it. Someone can quote this post if I forget to compliment him over it.

    However given is ridiculous defenses of Russia so far and the fact that he had previously stated he wanted to start an arms race means I don't trust him. Also he seems against the Iran deal which seems to go against the less nuclear weapons thing.

    It is true that I would applaud Obama for such a deal and I agree that we need less nuclear weapons. As I said I hope he does it. However I can't help but feel something else is at play and would like to wait to see the deal.


  • #1098
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    And then there's the others that are convinced that he's going to give everyone in America a job, wipe out Isis, cure cancer and develop the ability to fart rainbows. Truth is none of us know what way its going to go. I think he's a moron and the signs don't look good based on what he's done and who he's hired but I'll refrain from passing judgement yet. Let's see what happens in his first 100 days…

    Well, I do not think you will see anyone on this thread thinking that Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The people who are totally unreasonable are the hate/never Trump people. Must be pretty bad if the people who are on the reasonable and logical in this side of the debate in this thread are the people who are either neutral or pro Trump. Must suck pretty bad.


  • #1099
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Well, I do not think you will see anyone on this thread thinking that Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    I've seen plenty.


  • #1100
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1101
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    In their defence, it wasn't so blatantly in their face up until now.

    They don't suddenly have a conscience about it, rather they are worried that some of these things, which although not nice we tell ourselves are necessary, are now going to be done out of nothing more than political expediency and the need to be the Top Man.

    AS you say deportation of illegal immigrants has been happening under Obama, yet somehow illegal Mexican immigrants are one of the main causes of the issues that the US face according to Trump and his supporters. Not the failed and failing banking system, not the disastor of the war on terror or the failed war on drugs, not the state of the education system and the failure of the social system to take people out of poverty.

    No, its the damn Mexicans.

    And I doubt anyone thinks Trump is going to do anything about the NSA, as far as he is concerned whatever means necessary to get the information once the information is made public is fine with him.


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  • #1102
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Well, I do not think you will see anyone on this thread thinking that Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The people who are totally unreasonable are the hate/never Trump people. Must be pretty bad if the people who are on the reasonable and logical in this side of the debate in this thread are the people who are either neutral or pro Trump. Must suck pretty bad.

    Extraordinary claims...

    I am curious if you can find an ebbsy post and an a pony post critical the man. Added to this we have had absolute insistence from some posters that Seth Rich was the leak.

    Also I believe you will find that I am quite happy for the man to reduce how many nuclear weapons are in the world as I posted above. I am doubtful that he will do it as stated without something else in the deal but if not then I am very happy with this change in Trump's outlook on nuclear weapons.


  • #1103
    ECO_Mental
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    This is exactly the point. He identified his voters with pinpoint accuracy before the election. .

    You are right Duderino apart from where he identified his voters with Pinpoint accuracy. People are giving this guy for too much credit for his election strategy and what a genius he was.... there was no great master plan to win the election, no great polling done to target voters etc. etc.

    Trumpski only went into this election for an EGO trip simple as that and to generate publicity for the Trump brand, he had no campaign staff of note (lewandowski was a nobody and still is..). What happened was he used the tactic of saying crazy stuff to generate publicity (eg Art of the Deal) and it was entertaining for a while and he got the crazy right wing voters in the primaries who always turn out to vote for him. I think he then realised that hey this is working I’m going to say even more crazy stuff and the low information voters lapped it up.

    It also helped that he had “a little help” from the Russians 

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • #1104
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Having observed Obama's and Trump's behaviour and thoughts as human beings, which is all I can judge them on, I admire Obama and abhor Trump. But I'm open to Trump redeeming himself as an admirable human being.


  • #1105
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Also I believe you will find that I am quite happy for the man to reduce how many nuclear weapons are in the world as I posted above.

    I am also in the camp that thinks Trump is an impending disaster, but I would be delighted to be proven wrong. If he can implement the promised colossal spend on US infrastructure creating jobs and a booming economy, I'm all for it. If he can replace Obamacare with something better, great. If he can ratchet down tensions with Russia without Putin invading any more European countries, happy days. If he can change the default US foreign policy from send in troops and crack a few heads, wonderful.

    I think all of these are very unlikely - I think in 4 years there will have been tax cuts for the 1%, sweeping spending cuts on anything helping the poor, chaos in the health insurance market, increase in defence spending, enough conservative Supreme Court picks to pack the court for a generation, and at least one medium-sized war somewhere.

    A lot of noise about abortion, gay rights, racism and equality will be heard, with only small changes in any of these areas, none of them progressive.


  • #1106
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1107
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The information wasn't surpessed, it was their if people wanted to see it. And why then was Mexican illegals such a big vote winner if Obama was doing such a good job at it. What exactly is Trump gong to do better?

    Do you think he shouldn't have prosecuted whistlebolwers. Many republicans still want them killed for treason. Suddenly Snowden id a hero of the right?

    Keeping Guantanamo Bay open, yes that was a failure all right. but let us not forget who opened it. Thats right GWB and the republican party. And Trump even said that Obama wanted to transfer the inmates to the US prisons and how terrible that was. Is Trump planning to close it?

    In the main, people either don't care or don't want to know about all this stuff. They elect people to do the dirty work for them whilst we busy ourselves in shopping malls and NFL games.


  • #1108
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    This leaves a particularly bad taste in the mouth…

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/12/obama-us-intelligence-greater-access-warrantless-data-foreign-targets


  • #1109
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1110
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Bernie was a lot better than Clinton on all these issues, but lost, partly because, I think, many Americans like these "tough" policies. Trump already announced he was reintroducing torture as an official policy, and was talked out of it by some guy called Mad Dog, which may tell us where Trump is on the human rights spectrum.


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  • #1111
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


This discussion has been closed.
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