Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 10:41AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Did you both not read the part where I said I won't do whataboutery ?
You can cry all you want about CNN, doesn't change the fact Breitbart is **** and nowhere near comparable.

So what you're saying is Vox who are far left should be allowed press access while Obama was President, but Breitbart who are far right shouldn't be while Trump is in?

Not hypocritical at all.

conorhal · 12-01-2017 10:45AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Did you both not read the part where I said I won't do whataboutery ?
You can cry all you want about CNN, doesn't change the fact Breitbart is **** and nowhere near comparable.

Trying to even compare them is laughable but I understand why it's the tried and trusted tactic as it's the easiest way to avoid debate.

Every criticism about Trump and his people (and yes, that includes Breitbart) is done away with 'BUT WHAT ABOUT...'

You don't do whataboutery, you don't answers either. How would you interact with a national news agency that published a completely unverified fake story about you for your employers to read timed to break the day before you start a new job?

Jelle1880 · 12-01-2017 10:49AM

conorhal wrote: »

You don't do whatabouter, you don't answers either. How would you interact with a national news agency that published a completely unverified story about you for your employers to read the day before you start a new job?

I would talk to them in private about why they felt it necessary to publish it.

Not act like a kid throwing a tantrum in the public eye during your first big press conference.

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

So what you're saying is Vox who are far left should be allowed press access while Obama was President, but Breitbart who are far right shouldn't be while Trump is in?

Not hypocritical at all.

Do Vox have a history of deliberately making up stories not only to influence US politics but European politics too ?
Because Breitbart does. Do Vox have their head honcho in Obama's cabinet ? Because Breitbart do in Trump's.

dinorebel · 12-01-2017 10:51AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Did you both not read the part where I said I won't do whataboutery ?
You can cry all you want about CNN, doesn't change the fact Breitbart is **** and nowhere near comparable.

Trying to even compare them is laughable but I understand why it's the tried and trusted tactic as it's the easiest way to avoid debate.

Every criticism about Trump and his people (and yes, that includes Breitbart) is done away with 'BUT WHAT ABOUT...'

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

So what you're saying is Vox who are far left should be allowed press access while Obama was President, but Breitbart who are far right shouldn't be while Trump is in?

Not hypocritical at all.

conorhal wrote: »

You don't do whataboutery, you don't answers either. How would you interact with a national news agency that published a completely unverified fake story about you for your employers to read timed to break the day before you start a new job?

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I would talk to them in private about why they felt it necessary to publish it.

Not act like a kid throwing a tantrum in the public eye during your first big press conference.

Lets not get into a pissing contest.........

oh.

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 10:51AM

Christy42 wrote: »

I also worry about how much he is attacking anyone who critisizing him. He doesn't just defend himself. He attacks them (what was the point of calling Streep a bad actress? Just defend the comments she brought up). He always does it without fail. He goes on the attack. This ignoring cnn is only the latest incident and I worry that he is actively trying to shut down all who critisize him. Look at May. The bbc have hammered her over brexit and her response has been to defend brexit plans (badly in my point of view but that isn't the point). She has not declared them a fake news site. If a celebrity insults her she ignores it or defends a specific claim made about her. It is how a discussion with a world leader should go.

Streep said what she did to a massive audience, 10's of millions of people. Put yourself in his shoes for a second - The videos on him waving his arms around are subjective sure, but how would you feel if someone did that to you and you knew deep down what she is saying is false?

His reply wasn't practical, first he tweeted "for the hundred time I didn't mock that that reporter because of a disability" then went on to insult her, which he shouldn't have done I agree with you, but I can understand it. Trump hits back when he gets attacked, far too much, he needs someone like Conway to release statements for things like that and he'd come out looking a lot better.

The CNN thing released the night before his big press conference, well I can understand that too. It was clearly political. I don't think that's a stretch given what we know now about CNN's agenda. He told the reporter "not you" in a restrained manner what must have been 5 or 6 times but he wouldn't stop before he called him fake news. Both of those things weren't just criticism, they were massive attacks, which isn't an excuse of course.

conorhal · 12-01-2017 10:55AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I would talk to them in private about why they felt it necessary to publish it.

You know why the felt the need to publish it. There's no need to ask.
They tried to Brutus him and failed. They have no more interest in accomodation then Trump so it would be a pointless excercise.

Not act like a kid throwing a tantrum in the public eye during your first big press conference.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Do Vox have a history of deliberately making up stories not only to influence US politics but European politics too ?
Because Breitbart does. Do Vox have their head honcho in Obama's cabinet ? Because Breitbart do.

Yeah, I thought you didn't so whataboutery.

Jelle1880 · 12-01-2017 10:59AM

conorhal wrote: »

Yeah, I thought you didn't so whataboutery.

Someone else brought up Vox, I answered the question.

Maybe look up what whataboutery is.

The way some of you go on it seems like nothing potentially bad should ever be brought up about Trump

Maybe you're buying into the whole 'I won, accountability is over' stuff.

Christy42 · 12-01-2017 11:00AM

conorhal wrote: »

You don't do whataboutery, you don't answers either. How would you interact with a national news agency that published a completely unverified fake story about you for your employers to read timed to break the day before you start a new job?

Everything they published was true. They published the fact that an extra file was presented to Obama and Trump in a briefing.

They made it very clear that they did not know if the contents were true. They also did not publish said file.

Publishing it is no different to saying this investigation is underway similar to what happened right before the election. Both investigations were meant to be private but it seemed likely both would break. Comney decided to announce the Hillary investigation to the public to avoid it breaking from the news agencies themselves (if he is to be believed). In this case the IC decided not to for whatever reason.

Obama would have laughed it off. Assured the world that he was not in the pocket of the Russians. Then he would have taken the question. Should various agencies be punished if nothing is found on Hillary?

conorhal · 12-01-2017 11:09AM

Christy42 wrote: »

Everything they published was true. They published the fact that an extra file was presented to Obama and Trump in a briefing.

They made it very clear that they did not know if the contents were true. They also did not publish said file.

Publishing it is no different to saying this investigation is underway similar to what happened right before the election. Both investigations were meant to be private but it seemed likely both would break. Comney decided to announce the Hillary investigation to the public to avoid it breaking from the news agencies themselves (if he is to be believed). In this case the IC decided not to for whatever reason.

Obama would have laughed it off. Assured the world that he was not in the pocket of the Russians. Then he would have taken the question. Should various agencies be punished if nothing is found on Hillary?

They didn't publish the truth, the truth is what journalistic standards are supposed to reach for, the published hearsy and gossip and said, hey here's some hearsay about Trum we can't verify, but we're publishing it anyway to smear him.

That's not news, that's propaganda.

Christy42 · 12-01-2017 11:20AM

conorhal wrote: »

They didn't publish the truth, the truth is what journalistic standards are supposed to reach for, the published hearsy and gossip and said, hey here's some hearsay about Trum we can't verify, but we're publishing it anyway to smear him.

That's not news, that's propaganda.

So they should not have released Comney reopening the investigation? Sorry I get that is whataboutery but I really don't get the difference. In both cases they were clear that none of the allegations are proven. In both cases the IC were continuing their investigations. Finally they were intentionally vague in their allegations as it was not proven.

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 11:23AM

Christy42 wrote: »

Everything they published was true.

Nobody knows that. According to this report it wasn't.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/11/trump-was-not-given-any-summary-russian-claims-about-compromising-info-source-says.html

Leroy42 · 12-01-2017 11:26AM

conorhal wrote: »

They didn't publish the truth, the truth is what journalistic standards are supposed to reach for, the published hearsy and gossip and said, hey here's some hearsay about Trum we can't verify, but we're publishing it anyway to smear him.

That's not news, that's propaganda.

What are you talking about?

What hearsay and gossip they they publish?

pumpkin4life · 12-01-2017 11:35AM

A number of interesting things to take from all of this.

I'm off to write up a fake story about white men oppressing a black transgender jew in a wheelchair shouting "I love Donald Trump and Richard Spencer" and I'll then give Una Mullally exclusive access to the rights.

The decline and the doubling down continues.

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 11:35AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

What are you talking about?

What hearsay and gossip they they publish?

That Trump and Obama were briefed with a two page synopsis attached to the official report of the allegations against him.

This report contradicts that.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/11/trump-was-not-given-any-summary-russian-claims-about-compromising-info-source-says.html

They also wrote in the article that US intelligence agencies found the report credible. Clapper's statement released a few hours ago says the opposite.

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/224-press-releases-2017/1469-dni-clapper-statement-on-conversation-with-president-elect-trump

And besides all the pedantic nitty bitty BS trying to protect CNN, there's a thing called sensationalism.

ohnonotgmail · 12-01-2017 11:37AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Streep said what she did to a massive audience, 10's of millions of people. Put yourself in his shoes for a second - The videos on him waving his arms around are subjective sure, but how would you feel if someone did that to you and you knew deep down what she is saying is false?

His reply wasn't practical, first he tweeted "for the hundred time I didn't mock that that reporter because of a disability" then went on to insult her, which he shouldn't have done I agree with you, but I can understand it. Trump hits back when he gets attacked, far too much, he needs someone like Conway to release statements for things like that and he'd come out looking a lot better.

The CNN thing released the night before his big press conference, well I can understand that too. It was clearly political. I don't think that's a stretch given what we know now about CNN's agenda. He told the reporter "not you" in a restrained manner what must have been 5 or 6 times but he wouldn't stop before he called him fake news. Both of those things weren't just criticism, they were massive attacks, which isn't an excuse of course.

do you believe that he wasnt mocking the disabled reporter? that it is just coincidence that he happened to make the same arm moves as the disabled reporter?

Christy42 · 12-01-2017 11:40AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Nobody knows that. According to this report it wasn't.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/11/trump-was-not-given-any-summary-russian-claims-about-compromising-info-source-says.html

Well first of all
"The source said that intelligence officials who briefed Trump on Friday brought up the allegations verbally, but added that they were "barely mentioned in passing.""

So first of all that fox headline is misleading in itself.

From your own document so it was somewhat mentioned. Surely it is up to Trump to have said that though? Why hold it back? I mean I was presuming it was true as Trump has not denied anything cnn have said yet. He has denied the allegations in the file that cnn did not publish but he has yet to argue against anything cnn published. Cnn have even asked him to if they have anything incorrect in their article.

I mean it could mean the cnn report is misleading (but still not incorrect given they did not go into detail of how much Trump was told). The document still would have been present at the meeting. It was still talked about and mentioned that this was coming in the media and they were still attempting to verify the claims.

Igotadose · 12-01-2017 11:42AM

Just can't make this up: Trump's lawyer from yesterday, works for a firm just named Russia Law Firm of the Year

http://web.archive.org/web/20170111175216/https://twitter.com/ChambersGuides/status/723620084888010752

(Had to use the web.archive.org link as the law firm's taken down their crowing about this in April.)

Also apparently no one was allowed to look at the stack of papers on the table at the presser. Uh-huh. Nothing to see here, just move along...

I am liking the Slate headline: "Trump Is Russia’s Press Secretary"

I missed Trump's comment where he was just being nasty to Lindsey Graham; Trump doesn't let a good grudge go away.

Trump's really terrifying. So glad not be living in the US now, must be hell waiting for the shoe to drop (kaboom!)

My hope is that his great ability, that of incompetence, will keep him from getting ANYTHING done. One can always hope. He is a big fat slob and probably not energetic without the nose-candy.

Jelle1880 · 12-01-2017 11:45AM

It's now been confirmed that the pile of papers left behind after the press conference were all blank

Couldn't make that stuff up.

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 11:50AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you believe that he wasnt mocking the disabled reporter? that it is just coincidence that he happened to make the same arm moves as the disabled reporter?

There's videos of him doing similar hand motions and facial expressions during speeches impersonating other people who weren't disabled, or from interviews back in the 90s.

The disabled reporter has a problem with his arm where it's locked inwards. It doesn't violently shake around.

Look here @ 44 seconds or so - that was before the incident with the handicapped reporter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsaB3ynIZH4

ohnonotgmail · 12-01-2017 11:53AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There's videos of him doing similar hand motions and facial expressions during speeches impersonating other people who weren't disabled, or from interviews back in the 90s.

The disabled reporter has a problem with his arm where it's locked inwards. It doesn't violently shake around.

Look here @ 44 seconds or so - that was before the incident with the handicapped reporter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsaB3ynIZH4

so just a coincidence then ? C1uup4cWQAAGOfd.jpg:large

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 11:57AM

That's a screencap of a frame. It proves nothing.

Trump has uses those hand motions and facial expressions several times. You can chose to ignore that, or not. Up to you.

pumpkin4life · 12-01-2017 11:57AM

:D:D

ohnonotgmail · 12-01-2017 11:59AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

That's a screencap of a frame. It proves nothing.

Trump has uses those hand motions and facial expressions several times. You can chose to ignore that, or not. Up to you.

it is amazing how people justify the actions of their heroes, no matter how bad they are.

dudara · 12-01-2017 11:59AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

They also wrote in the article that US intelligence agencies found the report credible. Clapper's statement released a few hours ago says the opposite.

To be precise, they deem the source of the report to be credible. Information within the report itself is yet to be verified.

Clarebelly · 12-01-2017 12:03PM

OMG......Trump.......... literally worse than Skeletor

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 12:06PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it is amazing how people justify the actions of their heroes, no matter how bad they are.

Don't get me wrong it was a stupid thing to do and nobody knows what his clear his intention was, but he has used the same hand motions several times mocking people in the past.

He shouldn't have done it either way given the guy is handicapped.

ohnonotgmail · 12-01-2017 12:09PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Don't get me wrong it was a stupid thing to do and nobody knows what his clear his intention was, but he has used the same hand motions several times mocking people in the past.

He shouldn't have done it either way given the guy is handicapped.

how much clearer could it be that he was using it in a mocking way? whether the subjects of his mocking are disabled or not isnt the point. he considers that a reasonable way to mock people.

Christy42 · 12-01-2017 12:17PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Streep said what she did to a massive audience, 10's of millions of people. Put yourself in his shoes for a second - The videos on him waving his arms around are subjective sure, but how would you feel if someone did that to you and you knew deep down what she is saying is false?

His reply wasn't practical, first he tweeted "for the hundred time I didn't mock that that reporter because of a disability" then went on to insult her, which he shouldn't have done I agree with you, but I can understand it. Trump hits back when he gets attacked, far too much, he needs someone like Conway to release statements for things like that and he'd come out looking a lot better.

The CNN thing released the night before his big press conference, well I can understand that too. It was clearly political. I don't think that's a stretch given what we know now about CNN's agenda. He told the reporter "not you" in a restrained manner what must have been 5 or 6 times but he wouldn't stop before he called him fake news. Both of those things weren't just criticism, they were massive attacks, which isn't an excuse of course.

But he always carries on with the insults. It isn't a once off. I gave the example of May. There have been people sagging her off as well and calling her all sorts of things. Similarly with Merkel and any other world leader. Even look at previous presidents like Obama and gwb. What if a world leader insults him? If he can't control himself he is not fit for office. End of. They all could control themselves and that is the standard he has to be st in this regard. If they can do it why can't he?

Amongst this sort of company which is where he is his actions stand out as childish. Seriously I would have gone with it was not my intention but I am sorry if I caused offense. I should have been more careful and will be in future before complimenting disabled people.

The not you is a big deal. He didn't say one second. It was a I am not taking questions from you today. I also don't care how many times he said he still lost his cool (if he had it) in about 5 seconds. The I am not taking questions from you is a big deal. Cnn is still a major news network and him deciding to try and cur them out is frightening. I don't care about their bias in this regard. There is a reason Obama took questions from fox.

It is not understandable when he does it every time and when he is taking this job on.

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 12:19PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how much clearer could it be that he was using it in a mocking way? whether the subjects of his mocking are disabled or not isnt the point. he considers that a reasonable way to mock people.

It's not. Trump can be pretty brutal at times to people who go against him.

Hank Scorpio · 12-01-2017 12:36PM

Christy42 wrote: »

The not you is a big deal. He didn't say one second. It was a I am not taking questions from you today. I also don't care how many times he said he still lost his cool (if he had it) in about 5 seconds. The I am not taking questions from you is a big deal. Cnn is still a major news network and him deciding to try and cur them out is frightening. I don't care about their bias in this regard. There is a reason Obama took questions from fox.

It is not understandable when he does it every time and when he is taking this job on.

Please stop with this "frightening" narrative. It makes me want to puke honestly.

He didn't lose his cool, the guy who wasn't called wouldn't shut up, Trump spent 30 seconds telling him to be quiet before labeling him fake news. Reporters seem to believe the idea they are just as important as Trump is, it shouldn't be like that, and it won't be for much longer.

The CNN story was clearly political, it was created the night before the press conference. Trump knows they were colluding against him all campaign. What do you want the guy to do, bend over and take it in the ass?

I'm all for free press but I don't blame Trump one iota here. He's laying a marker. It will all be forgotten about next week.

Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

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