Arlene Foster and the RHI scandal

road_high · 11-01-2017 04:37PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Spot on. They have their own country in NI, they don't need an Irish Republic to prosper. They reap the benefits of the Union. United Ireland is dead.

So long as those in the Union continue to subsidise NI and give it a few existence then possibly yes, but I can't see that happening indefinitely. The block grant seems to be under increased scrutiny of late.

Godge · 11-01-2017 04:37PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think any shift to the UUP or Alliance will be seen as a failure.
But Arlene will have to go before SF will enter the executive.
That will be the lesson.

That won't happen.

Jayop · 11-01-2017 04:38PM

Godge wrote: »

That won't happen.

In your opinion.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 04:41PM

Godge wrote: »

That won't happen.

What won't happen?

A Little Pony · 11-01-2017 04:50PM

Jayop wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Spot on. They have their own country in NI, they don't need an Irish Republic to prosper. They reap the benefits of the Union. United Ireland is dead.

In your opinion.....:rolleyes:

The polls speak for themselves, society is much more normalised now than it was even 10 years ago. People get the problems with Stormont mixed up with society itself. Society in NI has never been more peaceful since the creation of the state.

road_high · 11-01-2017 04:57PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

The polls speak for themselves, society is much more normalised now than it was even 10 years ago. People get the problems with Stormont mixed up with society itself. Society in NI has never been more peaceful since the creation of the state.

Do you live there?
I dont but can comment on the politics I see. And the politics usually reflects the national mood and NI is far from normal (like here) and still divided among sectarian lines.

Jayop · 11-01-2017 05:06PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

The polls speak for themselves, society is much more normalised now than it was even 10 years ago. People get the problems with Stormont mixed up with society itself. Society in NI has never been more peaceful since the creation of the state.

The polls in which the two most polarised main stream parties are the two biggest?

Yeah really speaks to a normalised society that has totally gotten over the hang ups of the sectarian state.

Seriously, do you guys just post any old ****e in the hope you won't be pulled up for it?

Not Propaganda · 11-01-2017 05:25PM

road_high wrote: »

Do you live there?
I dont but can comment on the politics I see. And the politics usually reflects the national mood and NI is far from normal (like here) and still divided among sectarian lines.

I think there's a disillusionment among a lot of voters because they don't have any options apart from the same old. There's also an element of "keep the other lot out".

Not too dissimilar to the south tbh

A Little Pony · 11-01-2017 05:27PM

road_high wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The polls speak for themselves, society is much more normalised now than it was even 10 years ago. People get the problems with Stormont mixed up with society itself. Society in NI has never been more peaceful since the creation of the state.

Do you live there?
I dont but can comment on the politics I see. And the politics usually reflects the national mood and NI is far from normal (like here) and still divided among sectarian lines.

Yes. Northern Ireland and Belfast are not the same thing. Belfast has the major issues which a lot of the rest of Northern Ireland doesn't have, to that degree anyway.

Jayop wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The polls speak for themselves, society is much more normalised now than it was even 10 years ago. People get the problems with Stormont mixed up with society itself. Society in NI has never been more peaceful since the creation of the state.

The polls in which the two most polarised main stream parties are the two biggest?

Yeah really speaks to a normalised society that has totally gotten over the hang ups of the sectarian state.

Seriously, do you guys just post any old ****e in the hope you won't be pulled up for it?

DUP and Sinn Fein are controlled well as parties. It is up to the SDLP and UUP to up it and get better. Some people get so hysterical about Northern Ireland.

Jayop · 11-01-2017 05:27PM

Not Propaganda wrote: »

I think there's a disillusionment among a lot of voters because they don't have any options apart from the same old. There's also an element of "keep the other lot out".

Not too dissimilar to the south tbh

There are options there if people want to take them. Anyone could vote for the Alliance without religious prejudice and I wish a lot more people did as they have some really good people. You have other parties then on the left like the greens, Cista, PBP, the AAA etc.

Not Propaganda · 11-01-2017 05:48PM

Jayop wrote: »

There are options there if people want to take them. Anyone could vote for the Alliance without religious prejudice and I wish a lot more people did as they have some really good people. You have other parties then on the left like the greens, Cista, PBP, the AAA etc.

No I agree, but I think it's a similar situation to the south where people know the option is there but they're not really sure if it's worth it or "ah what's the point they'll never get in power". Which isn't really the way to go about it but I think it's a factor myself

Jayop · 11-01-2017 05:57PM

Not Propaganda wrote: »

No I agree, but I think it's a similar situation to the south where people know the option is there but they're not really sure if it's worth it or "ah what's the point they'll never get in power". Which isn't really the way to go about it but I think it's a factor myself

It's funny though. You see the same people criticizing voters in the north for not voting for the less popular non sectarian parties will later complain that those who vote for the small parties or Indo's in the South are wasting their vote or voting for parish pump politics.

It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along to suit their own agenda.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 08:15PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Yes. Northern Ireland and Belfast are not the same thing. Belfast has the major issues which a lot of the rest of Northern Ireland doesn't have, to that degree anyway.

DUP and Sinn Fein are controlled well as parties. It is up to the SDLP and UUP to up it and get better. Some people get so hysterical about Northern Ireland.

The DUP are in bother because of a lack of control, no?

A Little Pony · 11-01-2017 08:26PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Yes. Northern Ireland and Belfast are not the same thing. Belfast has the major issues which a lot of the rest of Northern Ireland doesn't have, to that degree anyway.

DUP and Sinn Fein are controlled well as parties. It is up to the SDLP and UUP to up it and get better. Some people get so hysterical about Northern Ireland.

The DUP are in bother because of a lack of control, no?

Not really, she has managed to keep the party on her side. I am sure if a coup could happen within the DUP, now would be the time would it not? She is just incompetent but then that is Stormont for you. A system fundamentally flawed as a democratic system.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 08:30PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not really, she has managed to keep the party on her side. I am sure if a coup could happen within the DUP, now would be the time would it not? She is just incompetent but then that is Stormont for you. A system fundamentally flawed as a democratic system.

The DUP will be forced to get rid of her IMO if they want to hold onto power. SF are holding all the cards at the moment unless they change things.

rockatansky · 11-01-2017 08:30PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

A system fundamentally flawed as a democratic system.

And what would you change about it?

billy few mates · 11-01-2017 08:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The DUP will be forced to get rid of her IMO if they want to hold onto power. SF are holding all the cards at the moment unless they change things.

So this whole ploy is really just about regime change then....

rockatansky · 11-01-2017 08:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The DUP will be forced to get rid of her IMO if they want to hold onto power. SF are holding all the cards at the moment unless they change things.

Don't agree with this. 2 points why,

The DUP are right about one thing, the people of the North do not want another election. They've repeatedly stated that the collapse of the institutions was a Sinn Fein decision. If they keep on this then Sinn Fein could well be blamed at the polls by the Electorate.

Sinn Fein have already gone off message. If they had kept it about one single issue, the RHI scheme, then people would have probably given them credit for standing up on this issue that concerns everyone in the north. By bringing in other issues such as the Irish language and Fosters unwillingness to partake in North/South bodies then they've made it the usual tribal warfare.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 08:53PM

billy few mates wrote: »

So this whole ploy is really just about regime change then....

When you go to the people is it ever about anything else?
We need a chastened DUP in office or the UUP. Anyone, as long as they are willing to work with others as equals.

Anita Blow · 11-01-2017 08:55PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Godge wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A United Ireland would sort his problems out overnight.
His predicament is not a good thing really.
New flag, New republic, he and others like him would jump at it.

That is a very patronising response dismissing the opinion of Ireland's leading sportsman, who should be seen as a spokesperson for the new generation of Northern Ireland people.

Jayop wrote: »

Wow, one person's opinions when he clearly has a huge vested financial interest in keeping "both sides" placated is now the spokesperson and represents the views of the majority of young people in the north.

Christ Gogde is I came up with ****e of that standard you'd be pissing yourself laughing.

I recognise that McIlroy personifies the fear that republicans have of the North becoming normalised and ordinary Catholics developing an attachment to that state, but it is the reality. The demographic dividend that was supposed to arrive in the mid-1990s and change the political landscape of Northern Ireland still hasn't arrived twenty years later and it is now clear it never will. Just like the tide that doesn't wash over the sand-dunes, the dream of a united Ireland is on the way out. The high water mark was reached and the only way is down.

Spot on. They have their own country in NI, they don't need an Irish Republic to prosper. They reap the benefits of the Union. United Ireland is dead.

Have to laugh at this. Reap the benefits of the Union? Britain literally could not care less for NI and NI has certainly reaped no benefits in the last 10 years.

Here's a graph for you. The line you see skirting along the bottom of the graph far below any other is the GDP per capita of NI compared with any other region in the UK. Not only has it been stagnant since 2012, it is still nearly a decade later less than 90% what it was in 2007 while the rest of the UK has shown recovery

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 08:55PM

rockatansky wrote: »

Don't agree with this. 2 points why,

The DUP are right about one thing, the people of the North do not want another election. They've repeatedly stated that the collapse of the institutions was a Sinn Fein decision. If they keep on this then Sinn Fein could well be blamed at the polls by the Electorate.

The RHI thing has caused such huge anger and comment I think people will know what the final straw was.

Sinn Fein have already gone off message. If they had kept it about one single issue, the RHI scheme, then people would have probably given them credit for standing up on this issue that concerns everyone in the north. By bringing in other issues such as the Irish language and Fosters unwillingness to partake in North/South bodies then they've made it the usual tribal warfare.

Maybe, but it is early days yet.
We still have to have the 'leaked stories' and a 'timely' arrest!

Godge · 11-01-2017 09:20PM

Anita Blow wrote: »

Have to laugh at this. Reap the benefits of the Union? Britain literally could not care less for NI and NI has certainly reaped no benefits in the last 10 years.

Here's a graph for you. The line you see skirting along the bottom of the graph far below any other is the GDP per capita of NI compared with any other region in the UK. Not only has it been stagnant since 2012, it is still nearly a decade later less than 90% what it was in 2007 while the rest of the UK has shown recovery

Thanks for this, absolutely convinced now that Northern Ireland would be nothing more than a millstone around the neck of the South in the event of a united Ireland.

Godge · 11-01-2017 09:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The DUP will be forced to get rid of her IMO if they want to hold onto power. SF are holding all the cards at the moment unless they change things.

So it was just a cynical play by SF, and you don't think the electorate won't see through that.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 09:35PM

Godge wrote: »

Thanks for this, absolutely convinced now that Northern Ireland would be nothing more than a millstone around the neck of the South in the event of a united Ireland.

I thought you were 'absolutely convinced' long ago. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 09:37PM

Godge wrote: »

So it was just a cynical play by SF, and you don't think the electorate won't see through that.

The electorate know they can't work with the current configuration anymore = elections. Fairly normal in any coalition/shared power arrangement.

billy few mates · 11-01-2017 09:48PM

Not the first time the Shinners have gone off half cocked and shot themselves in the foot (no puns intended)....:)
Far be it for me to give the Shinners election advice but they may have missed a great opportunity to be the bigger man here and remain presidential in all this by watching the DUP pull themselves asunder and not being seen to try and collapse the assembly but all the while quietly keeping the focus and pressure on. They didn't need to be getting involved in the DUP internal politics by calling for Arlene to step aside but once they did the focus of the argument changed from the Cash for Ash scandal to the good old fashioned 'them and us' nationalist v unionist battle. You had them on the ropes, it was only a matter of time before they imploded and if there was any serious wrongdoing an enquiry would have uncovered it whether or not she was still in office.
You could find yourself 'Hoist by your own petard' if this cynical ploy backfires (no pun intended).
In my opinion...

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 09:52PM

billy few mates wrote: »

Not the first time the Shinners have gone off half cocked and shot themselves in the foot (no puns intended)....:)
Far be it for me to give the Shinners election advice but they may have missed a great opportunity to be the bigger man here and remain presidential in all this by watching the DUP pull themselves asunder and not being seen to try and collapse the assembly but all the while quietly keeping the focus and pressure on. They didn't need to be getting involved in the DUP internal politics by calling for Arlene to step aside but once they did the focus of the argument changed from the Cash for Ash scandal to the good old fashioned 'them and us' nationalist v unionist battle. You had them on the ropes, it was only a matter of time before they imploded and if there was any serious wrongdoing an enquiry would have uncovered it whether or not she was still in office.
You could find yourself 'Hoist by your own petard' if this cynical ploy backfires (no pun intended).
In my opinion...

Anyone with their eyes open would have seen Arlene turning it into the same old same old, 'I am the victim here' speel.

Jeffery Donaldson did the same in the first line of his radio interview, 'it's all about the IRA' :rolleyes:

'People' are not fools. There is no hiding here for the DUP.

Danzy · 11-01-2017 09:53PM

I think at this stage that SF would have been getting stick from Unionists over not pulling the plug on this fiasco.

RHI is a scandal of such a scale that it should be front page on every paper in Britain and even a threat to the Westminster Govt. that such a waste of its tax payers money could happen.

It is ****ing insane, to be blunt and is a step too far by the DUP, they messed up on this.

Danzy · 11-01-2017 09:59PM

billy few mates wrote: »

Not the first time the Shinners have gone off half cocked and shot themselves in the foot (no puns intended)....:)
Far be it for me to give the Shinners election advice but they may have missed a great opportunity to be the bigger man here and remain presidential in all this by watching the DUP pull themselves asunder and not being seen to try and collapse the assembly but all the while quietly keeping the focus and pressure on. They didn't need to be getting involved in the DUP internal politics by calling for Arlene to step aside but once they did the focus of the argument changed from the Cash for Ash scandal to the good old fashioned 'them and us' nationalist v unionist battle. You had them on the ropes, it was only a matter of time before they imploded and if there was any serious wrongdoing an enquiry would have uncovered it whether or not she was still in office.
You could find yourself 'Hoist by your own petard' if this cynical ploy backfires (no pun intended).
In my opinion...

It may be put as a traditional them vs Us and why wouldn't they.

It will not stop a lot of Unionist voters from switching to the UUP or TUV.

Northern Ireland isn't exactly a dynamic economy, there are a lot of people hurting bad there and having it tough, many of them Unionists, how do you think they feel about certain "friends" of the DUP being extravagantly rewarded with cash while they are left swing in the breeze.

It is one thing to vote for the DUP because they are tough on the fenians but the piss is running down the back now of Unionists as well and many of them are fuming.

Seth Brundle · 11-01-2017 09:59PM

Danzy wrote: »

RHI is a scandal of such a scale that it should be front page on every paper in Britain and even a threat to the Westminster Govt.

How?
I'd say Westminster is delighted!
If anything it distracts the anti-Brexit shower in NI from whatever Brexit operations will happen in the coming weeks or months.

Arlene Foster and the RHI scandal

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