Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

Dyr · 11-01-2017 11:05AM

Sure the fingal project was put on ice because it was messing up club fixtures

Anyone who thinks dublin clubs would tolerate a second inter county team pulling their players away needs their head checked

MayoAreMagic · 11-01-2017 11:07AM

Godge wrote: »

You keep repeating the same argument, despite it being repeatedly debunked. You place an importance on playing county football that nobody else on this thread has agreed with. You confuse club and county football as being the same.

County football is not the main purpose of the GAA and is certainly not the main focus of the Dublin County Board. Increasing participation, particularly at juvenile level is the main purpose of Dublin's expenditure on GAA.

You just don't get it, hence you repeat the same tired argument. Any money spent on a second county team would take money from the club scene in Dublin and that is unacceptable to me and most Dublin supporters.

That is the thing though, nothing I have said has been debunked. Rowing the wagons doesn't change that fact.

Re placing importance on getting guys playing football, you all know what I am saying is right (the majority of you are probably from clubs that do it already), but you just don't want to admit it because in your minds, that is the first step to splitting Dublin up, even though it isn't. That is your issue, you aren't really interested in developing the gaa, you just want a winning intercounty team, even if that means gaa in the county is held back because of it.

Look at the bigger picture for a second. Mayo - a fairly backward spot relatively speaking, that has very little going on and where the majority of young people have to leave, with very limited historic success, are able to put out a team of a similar level to yours, with 1/10th of your population and an even smaller fraction of your resources. That is a pretty damning indictment of gaa in Dublin to be honest with you, and in all honesty, that should never be happening.

This move would actually help develop Dublin, but it is now clear that this isn't in the interests of the Dublin fans, and it will probably be the county's downfall

Godge · 11-01-2017 11:11AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That is the thing though, nothing I have said has been debunked. Rowing the wagons doesn't change that fact.

Re placing importance on getting guys playing football, you all know what I am saying is right (the majority of you are probably from clubs that do it already), but you just don't want to admit it because in your minds, that is the first step to splitting Dublin up, even though it isn't. That is your issue, you aren't really interested in developing the gaa, you just want a winning intercounty team, even if that means gaa in the county is held back because of it.

Look at the bigger picture for a second. Mayo - a fairly backward spot relatively speaking, that has very little going on and where the majority of young people have to leave, with very limited historic success, are able to put out a team of a similar level to yours, with 1/10th of your population and an even smaller fraction of your resources. That is a pretty damning indictment of gaa in Dublin to be honest with you, and in all honesty, that should never be happening.

This move would actually help develop Dublin, but it is now clear that this isn't in the interests of the Dublin fans, and it will probably be the county's downfall

You are completely ignoring my point that the priority is the club scene rather than a second county team.

You can disagree with that and say you believe differently, but you cannot say that your points have been unanswered. You just don't like the answer.

I feel quite sorry for you as it seems to me that you have an unhealthy focus on the county scene, possibly caused by desperation at the lack of Mayo success. A bit of time getting involved with your local club might help you to gain a bit of perspective.

Jaden · 11-01-2017 11:23AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Can we see some background on these figures please?

I think you may already be familiar with the article I pulled them from:
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The rest of your post I have already disproven...

I'm not exactly sure what you think you have disproven. Let's make this easy by discussing one topic at a time.

You seem make the claim that 10 times the population equates to 10 times the player resource pool available (otherwise why would you reference population at all?).

First of all, do I understand you correctly, when I state this? If not, what is your stance on this?

Billy Mays · 11-01-2017 12:03PM

How many days is this now?

The commitment to the wind up is admirable if not completely tragic.

MayoAreMagic · 11-01-2017 12:12PM

Jaden wrote: »

I think you may already be familiar with the article I pulled them from:
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120

What is interesting is you select cork as opposed to selecting the average. Surely averages is what you should be dealing in here?
As regards cork, well they are a bit of a basket case at the minute. But, like Dublin before them, the rest of the gaa world are willing to turn a blind eye to their advantages until such time as they are competitive, because that is for the good of the game as a whole. They are also a proper duel county, which I wouldn't consider Dublin to be honest about it.
Mayo are a good county to compare against as they have the average population of the country.

Jaden wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure what you think you have disproven. Let's make this easy by discussing one topic at a time.

You seem make the claim that 10 times the population equates to 10 times the player resource pool available (otherwise why would you reference population at all?).

First of all, do I understand you correctly, when I state this? If not, what is your stance on this?

But surely getting people out playing is the responsibility of each county? Like if Kerry can get 8 out of every 10 young lads out playing football, then it falls within Dublin's remit to do the same, or at least get more players out. You talk like your inability to get people to partake is someone elses fault.

MayoAreMagic · 11-01-2017 12:14PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

How many days is this now?

The commitment to the wind up is admirable if not completely tragic.

This is a gaa discussion. That is what the board is for man.

You don't have to part take if you don't want to, particularly if you think the Dublin gaa page is tragic...

Past30Now · 11-01-2017 12:30PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are also a proper duel county, which I wouldn't consider Dublin to be honest about it.

Dublin are clearly a dual county. Our current senior champions are in the AI club semi final, our clubs have won a number of Feile Division 1 hurling titles over the last ten years, our Senior Hurlers compete in Division 1. If we're not a dual county, who is, and what criteria do you use to make that judgement?

MayoAreMagic · 11-01-2017 12:35PM

Past30Now wrote: »

Dublin are clearly a dual county. Our current senior champions are in the AI club semi final, our clubs have won a number of Feile Division 1 hurling titles over the last ten years, our Senior Hurlers compete in Division 1. If we're not a dual county, who is, and what criteria do you use to make that judgement?

They are trying to promote hurling, and that is a good thing. But that cant be confused with an actual bona fide duel county. When you get to the business end there is only one show in town in Dublin - it is a football county. You couldn't say the same about cork, or indeed galway, who most would consider genuine duel counties.

Past30Now · 11-01-2017 12:41PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are trying to promote hurling, and that is a good thing. But that cant be confused with an actual bona fide duel county. When you get to the business end there is only one show in town in Dublin - it is a football county. You couldn't say the same about cork, or indeed galway, who most would consider genuine duel counties.

You haven't answered my question. What criteria are you using to describe a county as being a dual county, or Dublin as not being a dual county?

Slattsy · 11-01-2017 12:43PM

Oh the lols.

I'm enjoying this lad running rings around himself tbh.

I'll hold off on the ignore button a while longer.

DoctaDee · 11-01-2017 12:45PM

MOD

There is an unspoken rule that we generally don't moderate our own county thread. However due the number of posts being reported it's time to intervene. A county discussion thread doesn't confer any special obligation that all posts must be positive in nature, it is acceptable to pass a critical observation. The problem now is that the thread is being monopolised to the detriment of other discussion on subjects that have been brought up beforehand in other threads (funding, splitting Dublin etc). The fact that one poster has adopted the role of protagonist (without 2nd guessing any ulterior motives) means the dynamics of the debate are being personalised.

So I'll make this clear - discussion regarding funding, splitting Dublin etc should be continued in any number of threads that were created for that purpose. It is no longer appropriate to post them here and will result in further action been taken. Thanks

MayoAreMagic · 11-01-2017 12:49PM

Past30Now wrote: »

You haven't answered my question. What criteria are you using to describe a county as being a dual county, or Dublin as not being a dual county?

The level of interest in the sport in the county, relevant to football. I would consider them the inverse of Tipperary. I suppose you would call them developing counties.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a good thing, but you cant be expecting to be considered on a par with cork or galway at this stage. Or do you?

Anyways, that is a different argument.

Godge · 11-01-2017 12:54PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The level of interest in the sport in the county, relevant to football. I would consider them the inverse of Tipperary. I suppose you would call them developing counties.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a good thing, but you cant be expecting to be considered on a par with cork or galway at this stage. Or do you?

Anyways, that is a different argument.

Speaking as a Dublin fan, I would take a Cuala win in the club championship and a Hurling Leinster Final win over Kilkenny ahead of another All-Ireland for the footballers if I had a choice.

I am sure there are others like me.

MayoAreMagic · 11-01-2017 01:09PM

Godge wrote: »

Speaking as a Dublin fan, I would take a Cuala win in the club championship and a Hurling Leinster Final win over Kilkenny ahead of another All-Ireland for the footballers if I had a choice.

I am sure there are others like me.

Would that be the common consensus pre 2011 though? Or even 2013? I would very much doubt it.

Changing your focus to hurling, because you have won a few in football, wouldn't constitute being a duel county in the eyes of most people.

If people are upset to the point of reporting posts - posts that for me are not saying anything untoward or illogical, then Im not really interested in continuing. As the saying goes, that just isn't cricket. But if I had one observation that people would take on board it would be to maybe try to view things as more of a gaa person, rather than a Dublin gaa person. The world doesn't begin and end with your county winning a trophy, there is a bigger picture at play.

Kavrocks · 11-01-2017 01:30PM

Godge wrote: »

Speaking as a Dublin fan, I would take a Cuala win in the club championship and a Hurling Leinster Final win over Kilkenny ahead of another All-Ireland for the footballers if I had a choice.

I am sure there are others like me.

Definitely, the hurling Leinster win in 2013 is still the highlight of the last 10 years for me and the hurling league win in 2011 before that was the highlight of that year too.

It annoys me to see good hurlers like Reddin and Hudson continuing to try with the footballers but get nowhere instead of playing hurling. They would have definitely made the hurling panel a few years ago. I also don't think Brady should have ever switched codes, I know he got his All-Ireland medal, but I just don't think he is a good footballer at all. He has a good engine but doesn't have the skill and struggles when kicking the ball in my opinion.

I have resigned myself to the fact that the hurlers will always play second fiddle to the footballers whilst they are winning All Irelands. It's great for the county as a whole but we could see Dublin lose their division 1 hurling status this year which I think might be quite detrimental to the county. One very interesting point that I haven't seen mentioned about the hurlers chances of staying in division 1 is the lack of a relegation play off this year. If Dublin finish bottom there is no second chance and there's no possibility of the Cuala lads coming in and rescuing us.

Jaden · 11-01-2017 01:34PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What is interesting is you select cork as opposed to selecting the average. Surely averages is what you should be dealing in here?
As regards cork, well they are a bit of a basket case at the minute. But, like Dublin before them, the rest of the gaa world are willing to turn a blind eye to their advantages until such time as they are competitive, because that is for the good of the game as a whole. They are also a proper duel county, which I wouldn't consider Dublin to be honest about it.
Mayo are a good county to compare against as they have the average population of the country.

Given that you haven't refuted the numbers, we can take this to imply that you agree they are both accurate and relevant.

If you wish to use Mayo as an example to measure by, then let us compare how they fare against similar counties - Donegal and Kerry for example.

If you want to compare Dublin and Mayo, then let's do that.

Number of registered GAA players:
Mayo: 10,635.
Dublin: 39,197.
Conclusion - Dublin have four times the number of registered players than Mayo have.

Penetration of GAA within a county:
Mayo: 1 in 13 people are registered as GAA players.
Dublin: 1:32 people are registered as GAA players.
Conclusion - Mayo has three times the ratio of Dublin as regards registered GAA players within the general population.

Intercounty Spend by County:
Mayo: €610K (2015)
Dublin: €1,556K (2015).
Conclusion - Dublin spend two and a half times more on Intercounty setup than Mayo.
(Source: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/cost-of-running-county-teams-at-record-levels-34513426.html)

While Dublin have undeniable numeric advantages over Mayo, they are nowhere near the levels you have implied. You may either accept this, or refute it. I think you may choose to simply ignore it.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But surely getting people out playing is the responsibility of each county? Like if Kerry can get 8 out of every 10 young lads out playing football, then it falls within Dublin's remit to do the same, or at least get more players out. You talk like your inability to get people to partake is someone elses fault.

Once again, a clear question, clarifying your position has been asked, and you have not answered it. Do you intend to?

Seeing as you have asked me a question, I will answer.
The GAA's founding principle is the preservation and cultivation of our national sports. It delgates this responsibility to each county board specifically, is responsible in turn, for developing games, from both a quality and quantity perspective within their area.

The DCB are making great strides in this regard. I am very, very proud of what they have achieved, and how they have gone about it. The general health of GAA within Dublin has never been better. And yet, there is more to be done.

Never have I stated that relatively low penetration rates of GAA in Dublin is someone else's "fault"- there is no blame here. You have completely fabricated my opinion.

Where are you getting this 8/10 figure from? How does it compare nationally? Sources? It seems to be a little makey-uppy, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.

Dyr · 11-01-2017 01:45PM

Slattsy wrote: »

Oh the lols.

I'm enjoying this lad running rings around himself tbh.

I'll hold off on the ignore button a while longer.

Sure just wait till the discussion hits the 70 post mark, and the poor lad will fade off

Dyr · 11-01-2017 01:47PM

Jaden wrote: »

Where are you getting this 8/10 figure from? How does it compare nationally? Sources? It seems to be a little makey-uppy, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.

I'm going off topic here but you've been around since 98 and have less than 2000 posts. That has to be the lowest post count per day on here. Impressive stuff. I thought Pepe le frites was the king of that

Jaden · 11-01-2017 01:55PM

To us Feb 98ers, all you guys are filthy noob pleabs.

I'm more of a quality over quantity kinda guy.

Paulzx · 11-01-2017 01:56PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

. But if I had one observation that people would take on board it would be to maybe try to view things as more of a gaa person, rather than a Dublin gaa person. The world doesn't begin and end with your county winning a trophy, there is a bigger picture at play.

Ehhhh....this is the Dublin GAA thread. If people can't comment as a "dublin gaa person" on this thread then where can they?

There are loads of threads to discuss general gaa themes without a county bias. I wouldn't consider this such a thread or for example the Mayo GAA thread as one.

For you to even think like that leads me to believe that you are slightly out of touch with the theme of the thread.

Dyr · 11-01-2017 01:58PM

Kavrocks wrote: »

Definitely, the hurling Leinster win in 2013 is still the highlight of the last 10 years for me and the hurling league win in 2011 before that was the highlight of that year too.

It annoys me to see good hurlers like Reddin and Hudson continuing to try with the footballers but get nowhere instead of playing hurling. They would have definitely made the hurling panel a few years ago. I also don't think Brady should have ever switched codes, I know he got his All-Ireland medal, but I just don't think he is a good footballer at all. He has a good engine but doesn't have the skill and struggles when kicking the ball in my opinion.

I have resigned myself to the fact that the hurlers will always play second fiddle to the footballers whilst they are winning All Irelands. It's great for the county as a whole but we could see Dublin lose their division 1 hurling status this year which I think might be quite detrimental to the county. One very interesting point that I haven't seen mentioned about the hurlers chances of staying in division 1 is the lack of a relegation play off this year. If Dublin finish bottom there is no second chance and there's no possibility of the Cuala lads coming in and rescuing us.

tbh I'm not sure of the wisdom of putting huge efforts into lads who are playing both codes. Most clubs in dublin are primarily oriented towards football and will always steer their best athletes towards football over hurling.

Need to look at a more greenfield approach. Lots of areas in dublin that have no eggball or even proper soccer presence, where you could spread the gospel of the small ball on its own.

Slattsy · 11-01-2017 02:12PM

Eggball is getting bigger and bigger and I don't like it!!

Jaden · 11-01-2017 02:28PM

Slattsy wrote: »

Eggball is getting bigger and bigger and I don't like it!!

Especially in Connacht!

Dyr · 11-01-2017 02:30PM

Slattsy wrote: »

Eggball is getting bigger and bigger and I don't like it!!

Eggball does'nt really exist in a lot of daycent working class areas. Nor does the big ball. Soccer is the default sport but the FAI are a fiasco. Ideal for a shneaky hurling incursion :cool:

Dyr · 11-01-2017 02:37PM

This remind's me I was hearing a conversation in work between two very precious mummies about one of the little darlings who was going to the right school and had started rugby. The other one will goes "I'd say it will be great for him, getting out meeting everyone" and yer wan goes "I know, it will be faboolous for him for like networking and contacts"

There's the rise of rugby in Dublin right there

DoctaDee · 11-01-2017 03:16PM

One thing I've noticed coaching over the last few years is that Gaelic and Rugby have a relatively happy coexistence - the rugby season runs Sept-March or so which is generally the down time for Juvenile GAA with a slight overlap. We have a number of lads playing rugby which keeps them ticking over and also provides a good deal of physicality to their game, on the other hand we're seeing a number of rugby players coming on board with the focus on their ball handling and footwork.

Soccer, (and I like soccer) is designed to keep their participation exclusively to that game, very little leeway to introduce those players to a new game even on a partime basis

Past30Now · 11-01-2017 03:26PM

We've a few lads doing Rugby aswell. It's been brilliant for them in terms of their physicality. We're U15 this year, so the Junior Cup 1st round match takes place midweek following our first league game. They're not expected to have a second round match!

MayoAreMagic · 11-01-2017 03:37PM

Jaden wrote: »

Given that you haven't refuted the numbers, we can take this to imply that you agree they are both accurate and relevant.

If you wish to use Mayo as an example to measure by, then let us compare how they fare against similar counties - Donegal and Kerry for example.

If you want to compare Dublin and Mayo, then let's do that.

Number of registered GAA players:
Mayo: 10,635.
Dublin: 39,197.
Conclusion - Dublin have four times the number of registered players than Mayo have.

Penetration of GAA within a county:
Mayo: 1 in 13 people are registered as GAA players.
Dublin: 1:32 people are registered as GAA players.
Conclusion - Mayo has three times the ratio of Dublin as regards registered GAA players within the general population.

Intercounty Spend by County:
Mayo: €610K (2015)
Dublin: €1,556K (2015).
Conclusion - Dublin spend two and a half times more on Intercounty setup than Mayo.
(Source: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/cost-of-running-county-teams-at-record-levels-34513426.html)

While Dublin have undeniable numeric advantages over Mayo, they are nowhere near the levels you have implied. You may either accept this, or refute it. I think you may choose to simply ignore it.

I was under the impression that any further talk of resources would result in the guy getting in trouble?

But just to clarify for you, Dublin do have an advantage of 10-1 over Mayo (the county with average population). Dublin's are currently unable to get a decent percentage of these people playing, but that doesn't mean you discount the 10-1 advantage, as that could change - in fact it is changing if you look at the level of kids out playing the game. Therefore whittling down to the level you have isn't something I would accept as reasonable. That is really the thing - mayo are probably close to their optimum, Dublin are miles from theirs. If that is left unchecked the game suffers. We are often told the best period of football was the 90s. The reason being so many different teams capable of winning. That is something worth considering.

Jaden wrote: »

Once again, a clear question, clarifying your position has been asked, and you have not answered it. Do you intend to?

I have answered enough questions without receiving many genuine answers for my own.

Jaden wrote: »

Seeing as you have asked me a question, I will answer.
The GAA's founding principle is the preservation and cultivation of our national sports. It delgates this responsibility to each county board specifically, is responsible in turn, for developing games, from both a quality and quantity perspective within their area.

The DCB are making great strides in this regard. I am very, very proud of what they have achieved, and how they have gone about it. The general health of GAA within Dublin has never been better. And yet, there is more to be done.

Never have I stated that relatively low penetration rates of GAA in Dublin is someone else's "fault"- there is no blame here. You have completely fabricated my opinion.

Where are you getting this 8/10 figure from? How does it compare nationally? Sources? It seems to be a little makey-uppy, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.

I actually would like to discuss some of this with you, but if I do I will get a raft of sarky responses and guys reporting posts for no reason - quite schoolyard-esque. If you look at the mod note the reason given was that no actual issue was found - it was just the amount of reports made that was the issue. Therein lies the problem here.

DoctaDee · 11-01-2017 03:46PM

Most of our lads are playing U17 rugby and fielding U16/15 in GAA - my main concern is that all but 1 of the lads has taken up rugby in the last 2 years - so there's a coaching gap of 6-7 years on the lads they're playing against - ultimately this could manifest itself in a right doing in a poorly executed tackle or the general dark arts around the breakdown - thankfully nothing too serious as yet - we find the chicken fillet roll and any number of chocolate shíte after a game a big plus for them - how can ya compete with that. Word on the street is that a game in Navan RFC is fine dining

Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

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