Off Topic Thread V2.0

ED E · 05-01-2017 09:02PM

Serephucus wrote: »

Yeah, it would. Think I'm going to have to go ATX/EEB for my next upgrade. Waiting to see what Zen does to things first.

EEB master race man. Having to use two copies of Handbrake to max out utilization is great fun.

Cuddlesworth · 05-01-2017 10:09PM

Lu Tze wrote: »

In fairness, aren't the 8 core Intel's also slower than the i5 as the clock speed is lower? I would expect higher clocks on the 4 core ryzen mainstream chips, similar to higher clocks on the i5 versus the Intel 8 core chips

They are a little slower. You sacrifice raw power to have quad channel ram, more low level cache and more pci-lanes, plus all that extra heat generated.

Its annoying because it seems like AMD is trying to compete against the x99 platform but everybody is talking Kaby lake. I think the best thing they could have done was not release a 4 core, or re-branded it.

dunworth1 · 05-01-2017 10:42PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They are a little slower. You sacrifice raw power to have quad channel ram, more low level cache and more pci-lanes, plus all that extra heat generated.

Its annoying because it seems like AMD is trying to compete against the x99 platform but everybody is talking Kaby lake. I think the best thing they could have done was not release a 4 core, or re-branded it.

this all comes down to intel's monopoly.

it's all marketing intel have engraved themselves into people
I work for an I.T company and the sales people only deal with intel machines
as it sells better to people because they see intel on the telly

Gehad_JoyRider · 06-01-2017 11:57AM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Its annoying because it seems like AMD is trying to compete against the x99 platform but everybody is talking Kaby lake. I think the best thing they could have done was not release a 4 core, or re-branded it.

Kaby lake is being talked about it because you tubers are getting paid to talk about it. It seems like there being same old same old. lets play it safe.

I think AMD are showing a lot of confidence in themselves by not rushing out there and going oo here are all the spec sheets there playing it cool, I think they have good reason to.

K.O.Kiki · 06-01-2017 12:06PM

Off-topic, I'm considering if I should get a Z97 motherboard now, while prices aren't insane.

My RAM isn't running at its max speed (DDR3-1600 instead of 1866), PCI-e 3.0 might be handy for AMD Vega, and the extra SATA ports too.

Cuddlesworth · 06-01-2017 12:11PM

Gehad_JoyRider wrote: »

Kaby lake is being talked about it because you tubers are getting paid to talk about it. It seems like there being same old same old. lets play it safe.

I don't buy that. You tubers are talking Kaby Lake because Intel gave them Kaby Lake chips to test. Youtubers will do a video on any hardware they are given if its new and gets them views. You give them Rysen or Vega chips and you will see videos everywhere. Most of them have **** on it as well, pointing out its a tiny increase over skylake and not worth upgrading to.

I don't know what AMD's plans are but if they can make 6 core chips at mainstream prices, people will buy them. Because it goes all the way to 6. I think the reality will be prices similar to Intels Broadwell-E platform.

Gehad_JoyRider · 06-01-2017 12:22PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I don't buy that. You tubers are talking Kaby Lake because Intel gave them Kaby Lake chips to test. Youtubers will do a video on any hardware they are given if its new and gets them views. You give them Rysen or Vega chips and you will see videos everywhere. Most of them have **** on it as well, pointing out its a tiny increase over skylake and not worth upgrading to.

I don't know what AMD's plans are but if they can make 6 core chips at mainstream prices, people will buy them. Because it goes all the way to 6. I think the reality will be prices similar to Intels Broadwell-E platform.

And all you tubers are saying skylake to kaby lake ain't much of a difference and intel have played it very safe. So...

TerrorFirmer · 06-01-2017 01:12PM

Gehad_JoyRider wrote: »

And all you tubers are saying skylake to kaby lake ain't much of a difference and intel have played it very safe. So...

Unless I'm missing something that's exactly what he said?

Naturally people are talking Kaby Lake because it's out there, available, and people are interested in it.

Intel don't need to pay off tech reviewers in some sort of grand conspiracy - since 2006 their products have been head and shoulders above AMD without any serious competition at all, they speak for themselves.

Kaby Lake is to Skylake what Ivy Bridge was to Sandy Bridge - worth getting if you're on an older platform but almost entirely pointless if you're already on a modern platform.

It's smart play by Intel though, it keeps them at the top of the industry and stifles AMD hype - ultimately Intel have nothing to prove and thus far, nothing to even beat or price match..... AMD is the one fighting a major uphill battle.

I would argue that far too many reviewers are far to sympathetic to AMD - remember the FX9370/9590? Most of the reviews gave them lukewarm to decent reviews, and seemed to almost commend AMD for trying, when in reality they're utter garbage CPUs.

Needs a 220w capable motherboard, requires expensive watercooling, throttles badly, consumes almost triple the power of an i5, was priced closer to i7 upon release and is still significantly worse than a bog standard i5 in most games and in most games worse than the basic FX-8350 due to the throttling issues. How anyone could review that utter monstrosity positively is a joke. AMD's weak/desperate attempt to brute force better performance from the FX line.

Venom · 06-01-2017 09:57PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Unless I'm missing something that's exactly what he said?

Naturally people are talking Kaby Lake because it's out there, available, and people are interested in it.

Intel don't need to pay off tech reviewers in some sort of grand conspiracy - since 2006 their products have been head and shoulders above AMD without any serious competition at all, they speak for themselves.

Kaby Lake is to Skylake what Ivy Bridge was to Sandy Bridge - worth getting if you're on an older platform but almost entirely pointless if you're already on a modern platform.

It's smart play by Intel though, it keeps them at the top of the industry and stifles AMD hype - ultimately Intel have nothing to prove and thus far, nothing to even beat or price match..... AMD is the one fighting a major uphill battle.

I would argue that far too many reviewers are far to sympathetic to AMD - remember the FX9370/9590? Most of the reviews gave them lukewarm to decent reviews, and seemed to almost commend AMD for trying, when in reality they're utter garbage CPUs.

Needs a 220w capable motherboard, requires expensive watercooling, throttles badly, consumes almost triple the power of an i5, was priced closer to i7 upon release and is still significantly worse than a bog standard i5 in most games and in most games worse than the basic FX-8350 due to the throttling issues. How anyone could review that utter monstrosity positively is a joke. AMD's weak/desperate attempt to brute force better performance from the FX line.

It will depend on pricing but I'm strongly thinking of putting a Skylake CPU in a Kabylake board.

The octane support will be pointless for the next few years due to crazy prices, going by past storage option solutions and the need for a Kabylake I7 to stream in 4k is just DRM BS.

dunworth1 · 06-01-2017 11:00PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Intel don't need to pay off tech reviewers in some sort of grand conspiracy - since 2006 their products have been head and shoulders above AMD without any serious competition at all, they speak for themselves.

.

that's because they paid off the Manufacturers in the 00s not to use AMD chips

Member?

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/184323-intel-stuck-with-1-45-billion-fine-in-europe-for-unfair-and-damaging-practices-against-amd

Digital Solitude · 06-01-2017 11:15PM

dunworth1 wrote: »

that's because they paid off the Manufacturers in the 00s not to use AMD chips

Member?

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/184323-intel-stuck-with-1-45-billion-fine-in-europe-for-unfair-and-damaging-practices-against-amd

And now Intel are vastly better chips at almost every price point.

Given that was 10-15 years ago in an industry that moves as fast as this one, it's not really relevant to how superior Intel products are today. There's an advantage from having a bigger bank back in the day and the total black and white difference in the quality of the chips now, years later.

dunworth1 · 06-01-2017 11:28PM

Digital Solitude wrote: »

And now Intel are vastly better chips at almost every price point.

Given that was 10-15 years ago in an industry that moves as fast as this one, it's not really relevant to how superior Intel products are today. There's an advantage from having a bigger bank back in the day and the total black and white difference in the quality of the chips now, years later.

of course they are as they crippled the competition.

as you said above the industry moves fast so you need money to pump into R&D and if people aren't buying your product because your competition is paying them not too how are you supposed to keep up?
which is exactly what happened to AMD

if you and I both owned shops selling sweets and I decided to start secretly
giving my customers a euro for every time they bought of me instead of you.

you wouldn't be in business for much longer

Serephucus · 07-01-2017 09:48AM

Digital Solitude wrote: »

And now Intel are vastly better chips at almost every price point.

Given that was 10-15 years ago in an industry that moves as fast as this one, it's not really relevant to how superior Intel products are today. There's an advantage from having a bigger bank back in the day and the total black and white difference in the quality of the chips now, years later.

It's absolutely relevant. It's not so much to do with direct sales or anything like that, so much as it is mind share. (I'm not sure if that's actually a term, or if it's something JayzTwoCents came up with, but I'll go with it.)

The fact is, everyone thinks Intel now. It's gotten to the point where this is because there are just no competing AMD products, but originally, even when they did have, people were still choosing Intel because they were seen as superior, because they were used everywhere (never mind plain old familiarity).

You see the same thing with NVIDIA/AMD now. The RX480 goes toe-to-toe with the 1060 in most newer games, and beats it in most things DX12, yet people will go with NVIDIA simply because they're placed higher in their mind. Experimentally, they're just "better".

This is changing with Zen and Vega, but it's extremely tentative. Particularly because AMD have been known to stoke the hype train and under-deliver in the past, they do the same again at any point, and it'll really hurt.

Digital Solitude · 07-01-2017 06:31PM

I see where you're coming from, especially with the AMD/nVidia argument. However the last couple generations nVidia cards have been cooler, quieter and just as fast, if not marginally faster. It's only this gen that AMD are pulling themselves in line and they're still behind.

But right now, Intel are all people are talking about because AMD aren't worth talking about, as has been said previously they haven't released a competitive chip in over 10 years, what other way would people be expected to go but the superior product.

Back when Intel were dicking AMD around I'd have agreed totally, imo there's too much of a difference in their products today to blame Intel.

I don't know how big of a market share the likes of this board, r/buildapc or Tom's Hardware would make up, if I'm grossly overestimating it then yes, Intel have screwed AMD for a long time to come.

This can go back and forth, I think we all agree that we want to see a good showing from Ryzen, I'm not particularly fond of Intel anyways so should a chip similar to an i5 be released, I'd be all over it.

Cuddlesworth · 07-01-2017 06:55PM

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I see where you're coming from, especially with the AMD/nVidia argument. However the last couple generations nVidia cards have been cooler, quieter and just as fast, if not marginally faster. It's only this gen that AMD are pulling themselves in line and they're still behind.

Because they kept loosing market share. Nvidia did some very shady things to get there.

Venom · 07-01-2017 08:55PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Because they kept loosing market share. Nvidia did some very shady things to get there.

As a consumer, AMD's biggest issue in losing market share and me as a customer (5870 + R9280 owner) have been down to AMD themselves rather than any shady practices on Nvidia's part. AMD ridiculously over hypes there GPU releases such as R9-300/Fury/RX-480 series of cards, which left customers disappointed to a fairly large degree.

Also, AMD's driver support was pretty bad for years, how power hungry and hot there cards got and the 480 power issue at launch, didn't help either which can't be blamed on Nvidia.

ED E · 08-01-2017 03:36AM

G'night!

SickBoy · 08-01-2017 02:08PM

ED E wrote: »

G'night!

Ahhhh, so that's why they didn't cover the Intel Kaby Lake release.

dunworth1 · 08-01-2017 03:48PM

SickBoy wrote: »

Ahhhh, so that's why they didn't cover the Intel Kaby Lake release.

they did just wasnt much to cover :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A0Iks4ENIs

dunworth1 · 08-01-2017 04:14PM

Hello VEGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8tDaPLHxiE

SickBoy · 08-01-2017 04:18PM

dunworth1 wrote: »

they did just wasnt much to cover :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A0Iks4ENIs

That's not how almost every other tech tuber approached it though.
In the past they would have had as much if not more content available but this year they're CES trip appears to be sponsored in some part by AMD so read into that what you will.

Venom · 08-01-2017 04:44PM

SickBoy wrote: »

That's not how almost every other tech tuber approached it though.
In the past they would have had as much if not more content available but this year they're CES trip appears to be sponsored in some part by AMD so read into that what you will.

LTT are kinda odd like that tho, as they tend to keep their reviews pretty short for most products unlike OC3D, Jayz2cents or Awesome Hardware who will spend 15 minutes plus on big releases.

ED E · 08-01-2017 05:00PM

Venom wrote: »

OC3D..... spend 15 minutes plus on big releases.

Haha, 15 minutes? Tom. LOL. :pac:

Venom · 08-01-2017 05:05PM

ED E wrote: »

Haha, 15 minutes? Tom. LOL. :pac:

15 minutes plus

I seriously love Toms long vids. He even says at the start to go make a cuppa and get some biscuits

ED E · 08-01-2017 05:17PM

When theres a big new product I always go to him and/or Adored but when it comes to a new RGB fan from Corsair, nah.

Serephucus · 08-01-2017 06:46PM

I do like how in depth Tom's reviews are, but sometimes it feels like he could do a lot more with that time.

New case? Cool. But maybe instead of spending ten minutes talking about how you'd like a white one, maybe install some rads in it (other than a Corsair AIO), so we can get an idea of clearances. It's one of those things you need the case to be able to do, so it's invaluable when people do it.

wotzgoingon · 08-01-2017 07:06PM

He does talk a lot of rubbish alright but I like his reviews. I don't watch them all and the ones I do I would watch some of the video as his videos do be seriously long.

Another thing I find odd is he doesn't have a lot of subscribers he only has roughly 187,000. Which isn't a lot compared to other reviewers.

Venom · 08-01-2017 07:07PM

Serephucus wrote: »

I do like how in depth Tom's reviews are, but sometimes it feels like he could do a lot more with that time.

New case? Cool. But maybe instead of spending ten minutes talking about how you'd like a white one, maybe install some rads in it (other than a Corsair AIO), so we can get an idea of clearances. It's one of those things you need the case to be able to do, so it's invaluable when people do it.

kitguru and Hardware Canucks are pretty detailed for case reviews.

Serephucus · 08-01-2017 07:09PM

Venom wrote: »

kitguru and Hardware Canucks are pretty detailed for case reviews.

Kit Guru are pretty good, though I disagree with them on quite a few things, for some reason. Hardware Canucks are usually pretty excellent. If they went a little bit more in-depth, it would be nice, though they'd have to change their shooting style.

Venom · 08-01-2017 07:12PM

Serephucus wrote: »

Kit Guru are pretty good, though I disagree with them on quite a few things, for some reason. Hardware Canucks are usually pretty excellent. If they went a little bit more in-depth, it would be nice, though they'd have to change their shooting style.

Hardware Canucks shooting style is amazing tho. He can make the cheapest looking piece of crap case look awesome lol.

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