Boundary Extension for City?

Squidvicious wrote: »

I find that I am perfectly well served by Kilkenny County Council. What will Waterford County Council do differently or better for me?

Really, you're ok with decades of kkcoco under investing in the area.

Honestly, I cannot understand why these politicians are taking such stances it’s certainly not for the benefit of their constituents.

I would describe myself as a person whom all my life would have said not an inch of black and amber turf should be handed over to the Deise, however since I no have had kids I have very quickly realised how much of a no man’s land Ferrybank and south Kilkenny is in respect of the lack of services, facilities and amenities available to myself and my Family! We heavily rely on our cars to access vital amenities and facilities in Waterford City and its Suburbs that are simply not present on our side of the river due to this two-council situation!

Per the 2011 Census Ferrybank has a population of 5722 (911 for Ferrybank within Waterford, and 4811 for Ferrybank in Kilkenny (Kilculliheen Barony / Parish which accounts for approx. 30% of the land subject to the so called “land grab”)) in comparison Carrick on Suir has a population of 5886, Dungarvan 8000 yet Ferrybank doesn’t even come close to having 10% of the basic Public Amenities and Facilities that these areas have! Even the village of Portlaw (Pop 1598) has more than Ferrybank yet its a 3rd the size of it.

Compare Ferrybank to other suburbs of Waterford such as the Ardkeen / Dunmore Road area or the Lisduggan / Lismore / Cleaboy area both which have similar populations and then think of the facilities and amenities available in these areas then true deficit of facilities and amenities seen in Ferrybank really becomes apparent!

Now add to the mix that each of these areas have excellent links to the rest of the City as all are directly connected to the city and the other suburbs a network of various roads and routes where as Ferrybank is essentially divided and isolated from the rest of the city and its Suburbs by the river, mount misery and the derelict north quays with realistically only one viable congested bridge to the city which is 1.1km from the shops in Ferrybank and even further from the widespread residential areas in Ferrybank.

IMO Ferrybank’s uniqueness urgently needs to be recognized managed correctly as one area by one council and not split between two councils.

I do understand the anger that folk on the outer limits of this "land grab" feel
but what I say to them is why should you have to travel to Waterford City / New Ross etc for basic amenities, when people living the same distance from Waterford they are (but in County Waterford) may only have to travel their nearest suburb such as Ardkeen, or Lisduggan ? Would you no prefer being able to do the same business / activity closer to home in Ferrybank ?

If this merger gets approved (which I hope it does) I sincerely hope Waterford will develop Ferrybank and give us the same vital amenities and facilities that each other suburb of the city has.

</rant>

Jambo wrote: »

Honestly, I cannot understand why these politicians are taking such stances it’s certainly not for the benefit of their constituents.

I would describe myself as a person whom all my life would have said not an inch of black and amber turf should be handed over to the Deise, however since I no have had kids I have very quickly realised how much of a no man’s land Ferrybank and south Kilkenny is in respect of the lack of services, facilities and amenities available to myself and my Family! We heavily rely on our cars to access vital amenities and facilities in Waterford City and its Suburbs that are simply not present on our side of the river due to this two-council situation!

Per the 2011 Census Ferrybank has a population of 5722 (911 for Ferrybank within Waterford, and 4811 for Ferrybank in Kilkenny (Kilculliheen Barony / Parish which accounts for approx. 30% of the land subject to the so called “land grab”)) in comparison Carrick on Suir has a population of 5886, Dungarvan 8000 yet Ferrybank doesn’t even come close to having 10% of the basic Public Amenities and Facilities that these areas have! Even the village of Portlaw (Pop 1598) has more than Ferrybank yet its a 3rd the size of it.

Compare Ferrybank to other suburbs of Waterford such as the Ardkeen / Dunmore Road area or the Lisduggan / Lismore / Cleaboy area both which have similar populations and then think of the facilities and amenities available in these areas then true deficit of facilities and amenities seen in Ferrybank really becomes apparent!

Now add to the mix that each of these areas have excellent links to the rest of the City as all are directly connected to the city and the other suburbs a network of various roads and routes where as Ferrybank is essentially divided and isolated from the rest of the city and its Suburbs by the river, mount misery and the derelict north quays with realistically only one viable congested bridge to the city which is 1.1km from the shops in Ferrybank and even further from the widespread residential areas in Ferrybank.

IMO Ferrybank’s uniqueness urgently needs to be recognized managed correctly as one area by one council and not split between two councils.

I do understand the anger that folk on the outer limits of this "land grab" feel
but what I say to them is why should you have to travel to Waterford City / New Ross etc for basic amenities, when people living the same distance from Waterford they are (but in County Waterford) may only have to travel their nearest suburb such as Ardkeen, or Lisduggan ? Would you no prefer being able to do the same business / activity closer to home in Ferrybank ?

If this merger gets approved (which I hope it does) I sincerely hope Waterford will develop Ferrybank and give us the same vital amenities and facilities that each other suburb of the city has.

</rant>

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by amenities but I think that you are possibly overestimating what a council can do or even what it its role.

Do "amenities" mean shops? Well, Ferrybank will never be like Carrick or New Ross because it's not a town on its own. People in Ferrybank and surrounding areas will always shop in Waterford to a large degree. Bar more shops in the Ardkeen area and Lisduggan, I really don't see what more facilities exist in the Waterford suburbs. Indeed, some are worse for shops etc. e.g. Carrigphierish.

In any case, Councils don't build shops. Developers do when they think that a buck can be made from it. You actually have most BASIC amenities in Ferrybank as it is, Spar, Aldi, off-licence etc. As the population increases that may change. I don't live too far from Ferrybank and I don't see it as any major inconvenience to go to Waterford if needs be -the best of both worlds, living in KK but a city nearby(I know, having my cake and eating it, perhaps).

A Council's role is actually quite limited. Maintain roads and sewerage, planning being the main ones. I still maintain that changing council jurisdiction will make very little difference apart, perhaps, from a couple of more housing estates in the Ferrybank area. You talk about Ferrybank being isolated. Well, you can't change geography. As for management, again you overestimate what a council can do. Facilities will be built by the private sector if there's demand, regardless of county boundaries.

The real issue at the Council level is that Waterford would like a slice of the rates pie on this side of the river. Why else do you think they have applied for an extension? Certainly not because they want to go on the missions and rescue us poor South Kilkenny residents from misery. Admittedly, Kilkenny is fighting the change mainly because they're absolutely terrified of losing those same rates.

Max Powers wrote: »

Really, you're ok with decades of kkcoco under investing in the area.

I hear alot about KKCC's underinvestment. So what more would Waterford do for us?

Max Powers wrote: »

Really, you're ok with decades of kkcoco under investing in the area.

I am curious as well what will Waterford do for the newly aquired area's??

There was a discussion about this on Deise AM this morning between Maria Mc Cann and Paudie Coffey (whom I personally have no time for) but every single word he uttered was correct and to the point as why this should happen and I have to say I totally agreed with the man for once.

Im sure the podcast will be online shortly but the general gist if what he spoke about was that the boundary extension was needed so that the city and it services could grow on the Ferrybank side of the river in a sustainable manner around the city center and not how it currently is on one side and away from the City Centre out towards Dunmore, Tramore, and Kilmeadan.

At the end of the day its not about GAA, its about putting Waterford back on the map as a large centre to serve the region just like Cork, Galway, Limerick or Dublin rather than continw the present situation where by the south east haa many centres all competing against each other.

This will IMO benefit the entire region, not just Waterford.

Squidvicious wrote: »

Admittedly, I didn't hear the interview. However, I do not see why a boundary extension is needed if you want more housing on the North side of the river. There has already been significant development. As somebody pointed out above, the population of Ferrybank in KK is almost 5,000. That's a significant increase mainly over the past 20 years or so and all done under KKCC's watch. How will WCC do it differently?

In any case, I really don't see how having the next 1,000 houses to be built locally put on the North side of the river as opposed to the South side of the river will make any difference.

As I've said before, the whole reason for the extension is that WCC wants the rates.

When you consider that The WD KK Boundary Commission was set up by the then Minister Alan Kelly, when he set up 4 or 5 other commissions all with the same aim of looking how to promote sustainable growth in a number of population centers in the country where growth has been skewed / hampered because the relevant urban areas covered more than one council area.

So bearing this in mind I don't see how the "Land Grab" or "Rates Grabbing" arguments can hold water.

I live in Ferrybank (in Kilkenny) and have done virtually all my years since birth, IMO Kilkenny has left us down, they have not developed the area they way it should have been.

Ask to yourself What has KK CoCo done with all the development contributions they took in form all the developments in Ferrybank over the last 20 years (which are normally ment to stay in the area) ? They have in the vast majority invested them elsewhere in the County, Ask most councillors and they will tell you that.

As Ferrybank (in KK) is the largest population center in Kilkenny outside if Kilkenny itself with a population twice that of the next nearest population centers of Callan and Castlecomer why is Ferrybank light years behind in terms if investment, amenities and facilities for the population if KK Council are looking after us?

Anyone whom lives in the affected area and thinks KK County Council is working for us, please go online or to the council offices and get yourself a copy of the various local area plans, both current and expired and read for youself all the talk and promises that Kilkenny never delivered on for the Area.

Jambo wrote: »

When you consider that The WD KK Boundary Commission was set up by the then Minister Alan Kelly, when he set up 4 or 5 other commissions all with the same aim of looking how to promote sustainable growth in a number of population centers in the country where growth has been skewed / hampered because the relevant urban areas covered more than one council area.

So bearing this in mind I don't see how the "Land Grab" or "Rates Grabbing" arguments can hold water.

I live in Ferrybank (in Kilkenny) and have done virtually all my years since birth, IMO Kilkenny has left us down, they have not developed the area they way it should have been.

Ask to yourself What has KK CoCo done with all the development contributions they took in form all the developments in Ferrybank over the last 20 years (which are normally ment to stay in the area) ? They have in the vast majority invested them elsewhere in the County, Ask most councillors and they will tell you that.

As Ferrybank (in KK) is the largest population center in Kilkenny outside if Kilkenny itself with a population twice that of the next nearest population centers of Callan and Castlecomer why is Ferrybank light years behind in terms if investment, amenities and facilities for the population if KK Council are looking after us?

Anyone whom lives in the affected area and thinks KK County Council is working for us, please go online or to the council offices and get yourself a copy of the various local area plans, both current and expired and read for youself all the talk and promises that Kilkenny never delivered on for the Area.

I suspect that it was set up to some degree at the behest of Paudie Coffey and also partly because Waterford(among other counties) has been agitating for boundary changes for many years.

As for a rates grab, the proof of the pudding here is in the fact that WCC included Belview in it's application. The only possible reason that I can see for including Belview is to capture the rates - it's so far from the City that it can hardly be needed for housing etc.

What has KKCC done with the money? Paid council employees, maintained roads, put in water and sewerage services - the same things any Council does. In general this is spread thoughout the county, though in every county, there will always tend to be a little bit of a bias in spending toward county town.You may as well ask what has WCC put into Tramore or Portlaw.

As for facilities, please tell me what you think KKCC should put into Ferrybank or the surrounding area that they haven't? You talk about amenities and facilities but you need to be more specific. I know that I probably don't sound like it but, honestly, I am open to changing my mind on this point but I have heard no evidence as regards what WCC would do differently for us . I've often heard it said that KKCC has neglected us but I've never seen any good evidence of this. Simply repeating something doesn't make it true.

Deiseen wrote: »

One thing that people don't mention is that, if the boundary is extended, it will instantly increase the population of Waterford City.

There were numerous times where Waterford didn't receive various schemes or investment because of "population". That argument becomes harder to make when your population increases by around 5000 overnight.

If it means getting one or two things from the government, that we normally wouldn't, then that is a direct benefit to the people in South Kilkenny.

Following the city and county amalgamation, is Waterford City separately counted any more or would it simply be 5K more into Co.Waterford?

I'm from the border of Limerick and Clare (a.k.a Limerick City). We have a similar situation happening here. It makes sense that the administrative boundary of the city is extended into areas of Clare where a lot of people live.

What makes even more sense is that the counties of Limerick and Clare are amalgamated into one regional authority. Would the posters here from Kilkenny and Waterford agree to the amalgamation of Kilkenny and Waterford councils?

It neutralises the GAA jersey argument too (as well as being the right thing to do).

road_high wrote: »

People are very attached to their own county and hence local authority.

There would be no need for the GAA boundaries to change. Why are GAA boundaries linked to local authority boundaries anyway?

road_high wrote: »

Another one is a SE regional authority but I can only imagine the WW3 that would ensue with "who got what" etc etc.

Everybody benefits, nobody loses.

Squidvicious wrote: »

Admittedly, I didn't hear the interview. However, I do not see why a boundary extension is needed if you want more housing on the North side of the river. There has already been significant development. As somebody pointed out above, the population of Ferrybank in KK is almost 5,000. That's a significant increase mainly over the past 20 years or so and all done under KKCC's watch. How will WCC do it differently?

In any case, I really don't see how having the next 1,000 houses to be built locally put on the North side of the river as opposed to the South side of the river will change matters.

As I've said before, the whole reason for the extension is that WCC wants the rates.

As for the bit I've highlighted, a boundary extension will make very little difference here. One thing that Waterford badly needs is support from surrounding counties so that, for example, the local hospital and WIT are recognised as centres for the whole region. Basically, that Waterford is recognised as the centre for the region. However, it's hard to expect cooperation when you're constantly trying to move your boundary. Waterford would do far better to forget about the extension and concentrate on building good relations with neighbouring counties so that the whole region can grow.

TBH if went ahead it would finish off forever any support you'd muster in Kilkenny for anything SE based. They'll likely seek to strengthen ties with the Carlow/Laois/Kildare/Dublin corridor and abandon all support for Waterford based things.
The population of Co. Waterford is approx. 115k to 120k (correct me if I'm wrong) and Kilkenny 100k. Together we are nearly a quarter of million, I hate the idea of the county I love being diminished and compromised in a way it's existed for 100s of years. No one in Kilkenny wants to undermine Waterford in anyway, I really think this whole boundary review has been appallingly divisive and down right insulting and unnecessary. Such a waste of time when they are so many bigger issues in the country.

road_high wrote: »

I really think this whole boundary review has been appallingly divisive and down right insulting and unnecessary. Such a waste of time when they are so many bigger issues in the country.

Unnecessary? This is a very important issue for the development of the South East and the prosperity of the people living there. What's effectively happening here is Kilkenny is shooting itself in the foot.