Boundary Extension for City?

road_high

zulutango wrote: »

It makes absolute sense for a single urban area to have a single local authority. It's as simple as that.

In Limerick we're starting to see huge improvements to the running of the city because of the amalgamation of two of the three local authorities that manage it. There's 50 years of damage to be undone but at least we're starting to move in the right direction.

Waterford and Kilkenny are going to get left behind (they already are) so long as the tug of war between them continues.

I think lots of goodies from Minister noonan you mean...😉

Max Powers

road_high wrote: »

Because I think you really need buy in from the county concerned. It's very hard to get that when one wants to effectively erase one from an area they've administered since counties were created. You can't just do this because you think it might be better for the area and some 3 man report may say so- I've seen no evidence to support this, I think WCC running of Waterford has been very poor. They allowed so much retail on the outskirts, the city centre took a huge blow for example.
The working together needs to come from both sides and I've seen little evidence of any of this happening from either.
Just things I've picked up on from the odd political person I've spoken to, there's a political ideological divide between the councillors from both area. Waterford tend to have more hard left types vs south kk which is very traditional FF FG. Which makes it hard to work together. I don't mean that as any disrespect as Waterford people are entitled to vote for who they want.,

IMO that's not true about Waterford city council and retail, there is not much outside of the city in suburbs which take away from the city.a lot of your posts are just slagging off Waterford council, retail, development,etc.I think its a variation on the I hate Waterford, love black and Amber theme.Waterford has significant suburbs, unlike kk, it needs the tescos and bulk shops on outskirts.another line is this cooperation model, never gonna work with kk taking every opportunity to ignore the regional capital or undermine it at worst and not buy into region as a whole, what would benefit is if other counties, supported Waterford, Waterford increasing its population well help us all by Waterford city having greater population to fight fir resources as regional driver.

zulutango

road_high wrote:

I think lots of goodies from Minister noonan you mean...😉

Which goodies would they be?

You might want to pretend that having a single local authority, with a single coherent vision, and a single pot of funds isn't the best thing for what is effectively a single urban entity, then there's really no point discussing anything further with you. Kilkenny, if they have any sense for their own prosperity and well being should be arguing for an amalgamation of both counties. Only an emotive argument and natural intransigence is stopping them.

Max Powers

zulutango wrote: »

Which goodies would they be?

You might want to pretend that having a single local authority, with a single coherent vision, and a single pot of funds isn't the best thing for what is effectively a single urban entity, then there's really no point discussing anything further with you. Kilkenny, if they have any sense for their own prosperity and well being should be arguing for an amalgamation of both counties. Only an emotive argument and natural intransigence is stopping them.

You must be kidding me, first off the waw didn't go thru limerick city,, that was changed, then incredibly ancient east went thru limerick, not to mention major investment in university, city centre,IDA, job announcements regularly.

zulutango

Max Powers wrote:

You must be kidding me, first off the waw didn't go thru limerick city,, that was changed, then incredibly ancient east went thru limerick, not to mention major investment in university, city centre,IDA, job announcements regularly.

WAW doesn't go through the city. Ancient East touches on East County Limerick (not Noonan's constituency). What State investment went to the university? The other things are attributable to the amalgamation far more than Noonan (which Noonan actually resisted).

TheQuietFella

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/93876-waterford-earmarked-for-expansion-in-government-plan.html

Stop all the traffic but we've been earmarked for expansion over the next 25 years! I can hardly wait!!!

I'll be long gone and my children will be in their fifties!

The good news from all this is at least now we all know where Waterford features in the grand scale of things. So if anyone is waiting for things to happen you've read it here so pack your bags, and get out of this place!

cats pyjamas

Max Powers wrote: »

IMO that's not true about Waterford city council and retail, there is not much outside of the city in suburbs which take away from the city.a lot of your posts are just slagging off Waterford council, retail, development,etc.I think its a variation on the I hate Waterford, love black and Amber theme.Waterford has significant suburbs, unlike kk, it needs the tescos and bulk shops on outskirts.another line is this cooperation model, never gonna work with kk taking every opportunity to ignore the regional capital or undermine it at worst and not buy into region as a whole, what would benefit is if other counties, supported Waterford, Waterford increasing its population well help us all by Waterford city having greater population to fight fir resources as regional driver.

Waterford people are the only ones that regard it as the regional capital. It may be the largest urban area in the counties in the SE but as far as the other counties are concerned thats about it - theres no natural affinity for Waterford (affinity is the wrong word just cant think of a better one at the moment).

How are KK undermining Waterford?

jelutong

Brings to mind the projections made during the boom that the population of Ferrybank would quadruple. The shopping centres were built on the strength of it. Easy to blame the Bankers and Developers for that rather than the planners. Mr. Coveney is full of Christmas spirit methinks.

Deiseen

cats pyjamas wrote: »

Waterford people are the only ones that regard it as the regional capital. It may be the largest urban area in the counties in the SE but as far as the other counties are concerned thats about it - theres no natural affinity for Waterford (affinity is the wrong word just cant think of a better one at the moment).

How are KK undermining Waterford?[/quote

You just summed up the problem in your post, you do realise that don't you?

road_high

cats pyjamas wrote: »

Waterford people are the only ones that regard it as the regional capital. It may be the largest urban area in the counties in the SE but as far as the other counties are concerned thats about it - theres no natural affinity for Waterford (affinity is the wrong word just cant think of a better one at the moment).

How are KK undermining Waterford?

"Regional capital" is some kind of failed 1970s concept. That ship has long since sailed. It has no basis as we don't have regional government in Ireland so I'm not sure why it's continually referred to.
People in Carlow Kilkenny regard as Dublin as their regional and of course national capital, Waterford is kind of irrelevant to be quite frank. It's a place you may go to college sometimes, a day out shopping or maybe a medical appointment in WRH or Whitfield (if you're not going to Dublin or locally). I don't view it as much more than Portlaoise or Carlow or Naas/Newbridge with a few more people living there.

cats pyjamas

Deiseen wrote: »

cats pyjamas wrote: »

Waterford people are the only ones that regard it as the regional capital. It may be the largest urban area in the counties in the SE but as far as the other counties are concerned thats about it - theres no natural affinity for Waterford (affinity is the wrong word just cant think of a better one at the moment).

How are KK undermining Waterford?[/quote

You just summed up the problem in your post, you do realise that don't you?

No. The SE region were only really lumped together for IDA purposes. The other counties dont have the same scale of industry as Waterford. Why do you think that is? Kilkenny never had manufacturing like Waterford so was never a competitor.

People who live in South KK (all parts) shop in Waterford, just like people from other parts shop in New Ross, Carlow and Portlaoise. That is convenience, doesnt mean that these areas are actively undermining Kilkenny as a shopping destination.

zulutango

road_high wrote:

"Regional capital" is some kind of failed 1970s concept. That ship has long since sailed. It has no basis as we don't have regional government in Ireland so I'm not sure why it's continually referred to. People in Carlow Kilkenny regard as Dublin as their regional and of course national capital, Waterford is kind of irrelevant to be quite frank. It's a place you may go to college sometimes, a day out shopping or maybe a medical appointment in WRH or Whitfield (if you're not going to Dublin or locally). I don't view it as much more than Portlaoise or Carlow or Naas/Newbridge with a few more people living there.

That's a truly astounding view. You don't see the south east as a distinct region? It's just an outer lying part of the Dublin metro region?

Max Powers

road_high wrote: »

"Regional capital" is some kind of failed 1970s concept. That ship has long since sailed. It has no basis as we don't have regional government in Ireland so I'm not sure why it's continually referred to.
People in Carlow Kilkenny regard as Dublin as their regional and of course national capital, Waterford is kind of irrelevant to be quite frank. It's a place you may go to college sometimes, a day out shopping or maybe a medical appointment in WRH or Whitfield (if you're not going to Dublin or locally). I don't view it as much more than Portlaoise or Carlow or Naas/Newbridge with a few more people living there.

Yourself and cats pyjamas showing complete contempt bordering on bitter hatred there lads...next thing you'll be spouting your co-operation stuff,ye have no intention of getting behind the region, just looking after the black and Amber, same GAA type identity stuff in nearly all the negative arguments.

road_high

Max Powers wrote: »

Yourself and cats pyjamas showing complete contempt bordering on bitter hatred there lads...next thing you'll be spouting your co-operation stuff,ye have no intention of getting behind the region, just looking after the black and Amber, same GAA type identity stuff in nearly all the negative arguments.

It just doesn't interest me that much, it's not hated it's just general indifference I feel . Funnily enough YOU are the one keeping mentioning GAA, I never do. Bitter hated= absolutely hystetical stuff. People have a different pov than you and that's ok.

road_high

Max Powers wrote: »

Yourself and cats pyjamas showing complete contempt bordering on bitter hatred there lads...next thing you'll be spouting your co-operation stuff,ye have no intention of getting behind the region, just looking after the black and Amber, same GAA type identity stuff in nearly all the negative arguments.

zulutango wrote: »

That's a truly astounding view. You don't see the south east as a distinct region? It's just an outer lying part of the Dublin metro region?

What's distinct about it, exactly? It's a geographical location.

cats pyjamas

Max Powers wrote: »

Yourself and cats pyjamas showing complete contempt bordering on bitter hatred there lads...next thing you'll be spouting your co-operation stuff,ye have no intention of getting behind the region, just looking after the black and Amber, same GAA type identity stuff in nearly all the negative arguments.

I have no hatred for Waterford (quiet like the place actually) but never grew up thinking of it as a regional capital. KK is in Leinster and Dublin is considered the capital. You may think thats wrong but its the way I and many others think.

I never mentioned the GAA, you brought it up. It is a stupid argument that has been used to try to belittle anyone who argues against the boundary extension.

Will Waterford (as "regional capital") be fighting to bring jobs to Hacketstown, Castlecomer or Kilmuckeridge?

Deiseen

cats pyjamas wrote: »

I have no hatred for Waterford (quiet like the place actually) but never grew up thinking of it as a regional capital. KK is in Leinster and Dublin is considered the capital. You may think thats wrong but its the way I and many others think.

I never mentioned the GAA, you brought it up. It is a stupid argument that has been used to try to belittle anyone who argues against the boundary extension.

Will Waterford (as "regional capital") be fighting to bring jobs to Hacketstown, Castlecomer or Kilmuckeridge?

No, as it's not a regional capital and since we don't have a regional capital in the south east, we will have to drive to Dublin or Cork for all our jobs.

road_high

Deiseen wrote: »

No, as it's not a regional capital and since we don't have a regional capital in the south east, we will have to drive to Dublin or Cork for all our jobs.

It might have escaped you but 1000s do already. As do our neighbours in Laois, Kildare and Wicklow. It's been this way for the past 20 years or so, actually more pronounced since the motorways opened. Commuting to say city west or north Kildare from Carlow or north kk is not any different than having to commute to the far side of Waterford to the industrial estate. There people I know have flexible work arrangements meaning they don't commute even daily. Dublin's growth has changed the dynamic of the SE "region", I don't think Waterford want to accept or see that however.

cats pyjamas

Deiseen wrote: »

No, as it's not a regional capital and since we don't have a regional capital in the south east, we will have to drive to Dublin or Cork for all our jobs.

So we can all drive to Waterford instead? (incidentally, I can drive to Dublin quicker than I can to Waterford).

Deiseen

And then people wonder why the ENTIRE South East is lagging behind most of the country in employment, pay and levels of third level education.

Can someone please put up that facepalm meme of Pickard from Star Trek please.

road_high

cats pyjamas wrote: »

I have no hatred for Waterford (quiet like the place actually) but never grew up thinking of it as a regional capital. KK is in Leinster and Dublin is considered the capital. You may think thats wrong but its the way I and many others think.

I never mentioned the GAA, you brought it up. It is a stupid argument that has been used to try to belittle anyone who argues against the boundary extension.

Will Waterford (as "regional capital") be fighting to bring jobs to Hacketstown, Castlecomer or Kilmuckeridge?

I actually love Waterford too, it's beaches and people too. Sadly, all the animosity is coming from the other side but to be honest it doesn't bother me. Any real Waterford people I've ever met have been lovely. The more people want to belittle where you're from, the more the case for their SE region envisaged fades. I certainly wouldn't want to work with some of the attitudes here, I'd imagine trying to work positively would be next to impossible- they'd always have to have more or get the better end of something.
I too never go around saying I'm from the South east either. I'd be more likely to say Leinster also.

cats pyjamas

Deiseen wrote: »

And then people wonder why the ENTIRE South East is lagging behind most of the country in employment, pay and levels of third level education.

Can someone please put up that facepalm meme of Pickard from Star Trek please.

No one has so far adequately explained how a boundary extension will benefit the entire SE region. The argument for seems to be for the benefit of Waterford only.

Squidvicious

cats pyjamas wrote: »

No one has so far adequately explained how a boundary extension will benefit the entire SE region. The argument for seems to be for the benefit of Waterford only.

I've asked this question several times too with no proper answer either. A boundary extension might bring a few more housing estates to the north side of the river than would otherwise be the case but it will make no difference to the big ticket issues for Waterford.

Max Powers

Squidvicious wrote: »

I've asked this question several times too with no proper answer either. A boundary extension might bring a few more housing estates to the north side of the river than would otherwise be the case but it will make no difference to the big ticket issues for Waterford.

It has been, numerous times, basically stronger Waterford, with more population will help regions biggest city grow and fight fir resources, which will in turn benefit region.

Squidvicious

Max Powers wrote: »

It has been, numerous times, basically stronger Waterford, with more population will help regions biggest city grow and fight fir resources, which will in turn benefit region.

The only increase in population which will be brought about by a boundary extension is the increase caused by people being transferred from one county to another. That's, what, five thousand or so. I really don't see that making any difference at all. Remember most of these people are effectively within Waterford's economic orbit already so for all practical purposes, it's no increase at all.

Johnboy1951

Squidvicious wrote: »

The only increase in population which will be brought about by a boundary extension is the increase caused by people being transferred from one county to another. That's, what, five thousand or so. I really don't see that making any difference at all. Remember most of these people are effectively within Waterford's economic orbit already so for all practical purposes, it's no increase at all.

This being the case is it not reasonable that they should also be within the same administrative area?

road_high

Squidvicious wrote: »

The only increase in population which will be brought about by a boundary extension is the increase caused by people being transferred from one county to another. That's, what, five thousand or so. I really don't see that making any difference at all. Remember most of these people are effectively within Waterford's economic orbit already so for all practical purposes, it's no increase at all.

Exactly. There would be no NEW land or pop being "created" - just a sign change over an area already included in Waterfords sphere.

road_high

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

This being the case is it not reasonable that they should also be within the same administrative area?

But people are asking why though? As per the other posters I've not seen any hard evidence as to why this would be the case. It's all just in theory.

Squidvicious

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

This being the case is it not reasonable that they should also be within the same administrative area?

But County boundaries aren't there for that purpose. If they were, the county boundary would run as far as Mullinavat. However, a good chunk of the west and north of the county would pass to Tipp and Cork.

Johnboy1951

Originally Posted by Johnboy1951 
This being the case is it not reasonable that they should also be within the same administrative area?

Squidvicious wrote: »

But County boundaries aren't there for that purpose. If they were, the county boundary would run as far as Mullinavat. However, a good chunk of the west and north of the county would pass to Tipp and Cork.

They are not there for administrative purposes?
What are they for so?