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Why Irish language still exists?

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    #62
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    It's one of the ten oldest living languages in the world, it's an integral part of our culture and it fascinates tourists, it's easier to learn additional languages when you're bilingual.

    Also, Irish nationalism differs from other forms of nationalism in that it isn't based on denigrating others.

    Also valuing a historic language doesnt automatically mean you're staunchly nationalistic nor does being nationalist mean you're xenohpboic as many seem to equate the two terms with one another...:rolleyes:


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    #63
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Berserker wrote: »
    And those 'makey uppy' words are added to the dictionary for the English language. eg New words 2016 The English language is relevant to the modern world, so it is evolving.

    But new words get added to the Irish dictionary as well.

    Selfie was only added to the oxford english dictinory in 2013 and there is a Irish form of the word aswell.


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    #64
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    ted1 wrote: »
    Don't be daft. Are you saying that someone who speaks a language every mi ute if their working week at a minimum isn't fluent.

    You are not fluent unless you can converse with a native speaker continuously, read quickly and write with little effort in a given language. That is the definition of fluency, iirc. Fairly confident that most Gaelscoil teachers can't do all three.


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    #65
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    FortySeven wrote: »
    They're not makey uppy words. Those are English words. The same ones I hear Irish speakers using because they didn't makey uppy their own!

    English speakers never borrow words from other languages? This thread has a stench of deja vu to it. It's almost like a doppleganger of all the ones that have come before.


    (And by the way if you listen to a conversation in German, French, Spanish or any other language you will frequently hear English terms being thrown in too. I suppose they're not proper languages either?)


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    #66
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    ted1 wrote: »
    So they mske them up but add them to the dictionary so that makes it different.,,ok..

    Out of interest what's the Irish word for a sunroof? How about alloy? Dildo maybe?

    We need new words all the time for new things. In Scots Gaelic there are no words for these things because nobody realy speaks it so it doesn't need them.


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    #67
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Berserker wrote: »
    You are not fluent unless you can converse with a native speaker continuously, read quickly and write with little effort in a given language. Fairly confident that most Gaelscoil teachers can't do that. Also, I know how school works. Went to school when I was younger. :)

    The kids tick those boxes ;) I'm fairly confident that they do.


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    #68
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Out of interest what's the Irish word for a sunroof? How about alloy? Dildo maybe?

    We need new words all the time for new things. In Scots Gaelic there are no words for these things because nobody realy speaks it so it doesn't need them.



    sunroof = díon gréine

    dildo = bod bréige, dioldó

    alloy wheel = roth cóimhiotail

    Please close the door (dún an doras) on your way out.


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    #69
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Berserker wrote: »
    ted1 wrote: »
    Don't be daft. Are you saying that someone who speaks a language every mi ute if their working week at a minimum isn't fluent.

    You are not fluent unless you can converse with a native speaker continuously, read quickly and write with little effort in a given language. That is the definition of flency, iirc. Fairly confident that most Gaelscoil teachers can't do all three.
    Let alone junior infants who aren't even fluent in English are somehow fluent in Irish...


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    #70
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    maudgonner wrote: »
    English speakers never borrow words from other languages? This thread has a stench of deja vu to it. It's almost like a doppleganger of all the ones that have come before.


    (And by the way if you listen to a conversation in German, French, Spanish or any other language you will frequently hear English terms being thrown in too. I suppose they're not proper languages either?)

    Choice, not necessity. Irish is a dead language. Even with blanket teaching across the nation hardly anyone wants to speak it.

    Nuff said.


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    #71
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    ted1 wrote: »
    The kids tick those boxes ;) I'm fairly confident that they do.

    You must be fluent yourself?


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    #72
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Out of interest what's the Irish word for a sunroof? How about alloy? Dildo maybe?

    We need new words all the time for new things. In Scots Gaelic there are no words for these things because nobody realy speaks it so it doesn't need them.

    No idea , my level of Irish isn't great. I also couldn't tell you the mandarin or Australian for them, does that mean that they don't have words ?


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    #73
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Berserker wrote: »
    You must be fluent yourself?

    No, but I know plenty of people that are


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    #74
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Choice, not necessity. Irish is a dead language. Even with blanket teaching across the nation hardly anyone wants to speak it.

    Nuff said.

    It's not a dead language. There may be an argument to say it's dying - although there's plenty of evidence to refute that. But it's patently not a dead language.


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    #75
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Choice, not necessity. Irish is a dead language. Even with blanket teaching across the nation hardly anyone wants to speak it.

    Nuff said.

    Nuff? Sounds like a made up word


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    #76
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    FortySeven wrote: »
    I worked with folks who spoke Irish. It's funny listening to the peppering of English every few seconds to describe all the modern things they dont have words for.
    During the 1960s or 1970s one of the main advocates for the revival of the Welsh language took part in a debate with a virulently anti-Welsh language politician. The politician made the exact same point as you, but was then asked to provide an example by the advocate.

    The example provided was "sinema", that the backwards Welsh speakers just stole the English word "cinema".

    It was, of course, pointed out to this idiot that Welsh had actually borrowed the word from French, just like the backwards English language did.


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    #77
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    FortySeven wrote: »
    I worked with folks who spoke Irish. It's funny listening to the peppering of English every few seconds to describe all the modern things they dont have words for.
    During the 1960s or 1970s one of the main advocates for the revival of the Welsh language took part in a debate with a virulently anti-Welsh language politician. The politician made the exact same point as you, but was then asked to provide an example by the advocate.

    The example provided was "sinema", that the backwards Welsh speakers just stole the English word "cinema".

    It was, of course, pointed out to this idiot that Welsh had actually borrowed the word from French, just like the backwards English language did.
    How do they know the word was borrowed from French and not English after English had borrowed it from French?


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    #78
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    How do they know the word was borrowed from French and not English after English had borrowed it from French?

    <Insert joke about the English claiming ownership of things that don't belong to them>


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    #79
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Johnboner wrote: »
    Why Irish language still exists?

    Tá brón orm, ach ní thuigim an ceist seo.


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    #80
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    How do they know the word was borrowed from French and not English after English had borrowed it from French?

    Because it was originally a French word. The point is that complaining that Irish language speakers take modern words from English is exactly the same as complaining that English takes modern words from French. (Or older words).


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    #81
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    maudgonner wrote: »
    It's not a dead language. There may be an argument to say it's dying - although there's plenty of evidence to refute that. But it's patently not a dead language.

    Fair point. I shall rephrase.

    Irish is in its death throes.


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    #82
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    ted1 wrote: »
    Nuff? Sounds like a made up word

    It is. I met a fairy once called nuff. Fairy nuff.


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    #83
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Fair point. I shall rephrase.

    Irish is in its death throes.

    Death throes lasting the last 3 centuries


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    #84
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    During the 1960s or 1970s one of the main advocates for the revival of the Welsh language took part in a debate with a virulently anti-Welsh language politician. The politician made the exact same point as you, but was then asked to provide an example by the advocate.

    The example provided was "sinema", that the backwards Welsh speakers just stole the English word "cinema".

    It was, of course, pointed out to this idiot that Welsh had actually borrowed the word from French, just like the backwards English language did.

    I worked in a parts shop selling car parts. Watching two guys trying to speak Irish about modern cars was painful. I'm sure your example was very eloquent and well presented in an intellectual debate on the merits of a language.

    Over the counter of a parts shop is a whole other ballgame and painful to watch the grasping at straws.

    I still maintain that every single person in Ireland was taught Irish, was told it is their heritage and to be proud of it yet choose not to speak it.


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    #85
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Death throes lasting the last 3 centuries

    That sounds about right for a language. Parts will stay on such as the kiss my arse one. Everyone knows that, and slan will stay etc. It's not time for the last rights yet.

    That time will come when the gaeltacht stop getting special treatment and the eu says enough is enough with the heritage money. Then we can raise the priest


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    #86
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    FortySeven wrote: »
    . It's not time for the last rights yet.

    Sure we'll give it a other 150 years so before calling time of death.


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    #87
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Sure we'll give it a other 150 years so before calling time of death.

    I'd say you could be right on the money there. Languages are like trees really.


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    #88
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,261 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Johnboner wrote: »
    Latin is more useful than Irish yet it is taught in schools. How about teaching the kids something useful like French or German talking about mandatory Irish in schools. Our government institutions at its finest again. Should listen to what a smart man once said. "Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of humanity." - Albert Einstein

    You know this site has a search function? Where you can check if a topic has Ben covered? Again. And again. And again. And......

    :rolleyes:


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    #89
    Edups2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Edups2.0


    Irish isn't like Afirkans it's not dead or dying. Plenty of the mainland still speak it and all of the island folk speak it. When the British invaded and took control they forced us to speak their language. Keeping Irish in our life is the one thing we didn't let them take at the time, why would we get rid of it now? It's one of the greatest things we have that we speak English and Irish. English is widely used in most parts of the world and Irish is our native tongue. We shouldn't let it die.


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    #90
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    FortySeven wrote: »
    I'd say you could be right on the money there. Languages are like trees really.

    What is your point?


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    #91
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    FortySeven wrote: »
    I worked in a parts shop selling car parts. Watching two guys trying to speak Irish about modern cars was painful. I'm sure your example was very eloquent and well presented in an intellectual debate on the merits of a language.

    Over the counter of a parts shop is a whole other ballgame and painful to watch the grasping at straws.

    I still maintain that every single person in Ireland was taught Irish, was told it is their heritage and to be proud of it yet choose not to speak it.

    But you've just given an example of two guys who did choose to speak it, of their own free will.

    As shown above, the words do exist for most (I won't claim all) terminology. Those guys may have chosen not to use the Irish words (just as you said above, English speakers choose to use borrow words from other languages). Maybe they weren't fluent, maybe it was just easier for them to use the, admittedly more familiar, English terms. However they also chose to carry the bulk of their conversation out through Irish, when they're presumably also fluent in English. If it was as uncomfortable as you say, why wouldn't they simply switch entirely to English? Maybe the only one who was uncomfortable was you?

    I'm all in favour of people using the odd English term if that facilitates them having Irish conversations in the normal course of their day. Surely that's preferable to someone being reluctant to speak the language at all for fear of getting stuck on a term they're unfamiliar with. Funnily enough the 'all or nothing' attitude that you seem to have is normally attributed to Gaeilge Nazis - militant speakers who would rather we all speak nothing but Irish. Thankfully most people take a more realistic, moderate view.


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