Dublin congestion charge - would it help? [see post #7]

afatbollix · 04-12-2016 7:43pm #1

I'd support a congestion charge for the city centre. Its about time something drastic was done to try help the crisis that is happening in Dublin.

Saying that in London it has just opened the door to the rich who don't care about £20 a day and £15 a hour on parking. I'd support it only if the money from it went straight to public transport in Dublin as it does in London because it goes to the mayor not central government.

marno21 · 04-12-2016 8:24pm

afatbollix wrote: »

I'd support a congestion charge for the city centre. Saying that in London it has just opened the door to the rich who don't care about £20 a day and £15 a hour on parking. I'd support it only if the money from it went straight to public transport in Dublin as it does in London because it goes to the mayor not central government.

Congestion charge is a great idea when there's a viable alternative to get people into and out of the city centre.

At present, the rail network isn't able to supply the capacity needed to provide a viable alternative.

marno21 · 04-12-2016 8:45pm

Car commuters don't want to get out of their cars and use a bus. Buses are ****e.

The PPT is making life easier for Kildare commuters but is of no use to Kildare commuters going to anywhere other than the city centre. Dublin still has a mess of transport routes, but no coherent network.

L1011 · 05-12-2016 9:28am

Deedsie wrote: »

The toll is already there. People talking about DCC removing the toll are being unrealistic. There is plenty of room on buses and trains coming into Dublin. If you want to use your car in Dublin City Centre you should be charged for the privilege.

Buses and train are at crush capacity at peak hours. I don't want to even imagine what you think full is if you think that's "plenty of room"!

Sam Russell · 05-12-2016 11:20am

I have started a new thread as there appears to be a lot of discussion on other threads about this topic.

A congestion charge has been suggested for traffic within the canals. How would this work? How much would the charge need to be to work? Would restricting parking within the canals be an alternative (such as a maximum stay before heavy charges apply)?

L1011 · 05-12-2016 12:33pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Some buses and some trains are at crush capacity no arguments here but they are not all jammed. PPT route is open two weeks and there is still plenty of room. OAP and free public transport users travelling for free at peak times could be reviewed to create extra space?

The ones that are jammed are the ones that go along high traffic routes - and have traffic jams.

That there is room on one newly opened rail route means nothing.

You cannot use stick when there is no carrot. There is no public transport capacity to take extra mode-shifters in many areas.

Removing FT passes at peak will have minimal impact. Extra capacity is needed above and beyond everything else - and nothing else will have the impact it would give.

marno21 · 05-12-2016 12:52pm

L1011 wrote: »

The ones that are jammed are the ones that go along high traffic routes - and have traffic jams.

That there is room on one newly opened rail route means nothing.

You cannot use stick when there is no carrot. There is no public transport capacity to take extra mode-shifters in many areas.

Removing FT passes at peak will have minimal impact. Extra capacity is needed above and beyond everything else - and nothing else will have the impact it would give.

Nail on the head here.

Trains on the Maynooth and Northern lines appear to be full to bursting at peak times going by irishrail's Twitter. There needs to be major expansion of the DART Network before congestion charges can be considered.

LeinsterDub · 05-12-2016 3:07pm

Deedsie wrote: »

In saying that, i occasionally get the bus along the N11... there was always space on the bus if I timed it right. From 7:30 to 09:00 it's busy but it is basically empty after that.

It's almost like most of people need to go somewhere between those times and don't have the option to go later.

Idbatterim · 05-12-2016 5:32pm

People complaining that buses are ****e and that we need to invest in rail need to accept it's going to take time for DART Underground, DART Expansion, Luas extensions, metro north. Reducing the number of cars between the canals in Dublin, in Cork, Limerick, Galway etc needs to be prioritised... buses are the only option while we are waiting for rail projects.

Irelands traffic congestion is caused solely by single occupant private cars. We have spent billions on roads... billions. And the problem is just getting worse. Do people really not see this?

I dont know if any more white elephant mega expensive rural motorways are planned, but anything that isnt the the m20 or galway bypass, should be off the agenda for years!

Get on with sorting out the issues once and for all, rail needs several billion. bus in the short term like you say Deedsie, because as crap as it is, what is the short term alternative...

cnocbui · 05-12-2016 5:37pm

afatbollix wrote: »

I'd support a congestion charge for the city centre. Saying that in London it has just opened the door to the rich who don't care about £20 a day and £15 a hour on parking. I'd support it only if the money from it went straight to public transport in Dublin as it does in London because it goes to the mayor not central government.

Would this congestion charge stop you from driving?

Sam Russell · 05-12-2016 5:42pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Would this congestion charge stop you from driving?

Well, the East Link toll certainly diverts cars over the Beckett Bridge, so yes there will be a change in driver behaviour. Perhaps drivers will park before the canal and walk or take PT all the way.

Either would be a win.

The congestion charge would be best used to further subsidise the PT, preferably with lower fares.

Idbatterim · 05-12-2016 5:45pm

the east link toll should be scrapped immediately! anything that is a quick gain should be done at this stage... getting over macken street bridge is an absolute joke...

Idbatterim · 05-12-2016 5:50pm

Why would anyone want to sit in a car on hour long tailbacks. Provide satellite park and ride facilities outside Dublin. Bus people in and out to the employment centres. It's not that complicated is it?

I am just back from london, I love getting the underground and train around the place, its great. In dublin, you wont get me out of the car, not with the current shambles. there is no proper "network" here, with DU and MN, youd be a good bit of the way there though...

I agree with the satellite centres to employment centres, should one of the lanes on the m50 and n7 then become a public transport only lane during peak hours? to get them out of the car, you will need to give them a good time saving...

Sam Russell · 05-12-2016 6:26pm

Deedsie wrote: »

You could have a timed bus gate along the N7 from Nass for example from 07:00 to 09:00, would be a great advertising for a public transport alternative.

Can the buses not use the SLOW lane? - as no-one else appears to anytime I'm on it (mind you, I do not use it at peak times)

L1011 · 05-12-2016 6:49pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Like students going to schools? Oh no sure there parents drive them? None of them are among public transport routes I am sure.

Because there's no public transport capacity and school bags have become too heavy to safely cycle with.

afatbollix · 05-12-2016 8:55pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Would this congestion charge stop you from driving?

I have lived in London for 6 years and I have never driven into central London. It would be easier for me to drive to work but I wouldn't even think about it. £9 on a travel card each day versus £25 congestion charge.

No pussy footing around set it high from the start.

I used to think you couldn't as the Public transport isn't there yet but its time something drastic was done.

Idbatterim · 05-12-2016 9:31pm

thats the thing though, who in there right mind would drive into central london? 1. you have a fantastic railed based transport network and 2. the cost of driving into central london

for many in dublin you have the opposite situation, cheap to drive and logistics of getting anwhere other than "an lar" mean who in their right minds would ditch the car?

L1011 · 05-12-2016 10:04pm

Deedsie wrote: »

I wonder do the department of Education and the department of transport know each other's phone numbers? You could solve another problem there. Two birds with one one stone. Children's backs and Dublin's traffic congestion improved in one fell swoop.

With what cash, buses and drivers?

Middle Man · 08-12-2016 9:56pm

afatbollix wrote: »

I'd support a congestion charge for the city centre. Its about time something drastic was done to try help the crisis that is happening in Dublin.

Saying that in London it has just opened the door to the rich who don't care about £20 a day and £15 a hour on parking. I'd support it only if the money from it went straight to public transport in Dublin as it does in London because it goes to the mayor not central government.

Only if the money goes straight into rail investment - that includes Luas. If such money goes into cycling, I'd be livid to say the least. I would not want to see my money going towards the short term benefit of a few.

Sam Russell · 09-12-2016 1:02am

Mod: can we keep to the topic of congestion charge. No swipes at cyclists.

aliveandkicking · 09-12-2016 3:46am

I don't think Dublin is ready for a full blown congestion charge nor do we have the public transport infrastructure or capacity to justify such a move.

However I do believe a halfway house measure like banning or having a congestion charge for all single occupancy vehicles between the canals at peak hours would be a good idea and would have a positive effect on traffic levels. It wouldn't prevent people driving to work but it would force them to car pool thus reducing the overall number of vehicles through the city centre.

Middle Man · 10-12-2016 4:01pm

aliveandkicking wrote: »

I don't think Dublin is ready for a full blown congestion charge nor do we have the public transport infrastructure or capacity to justify such a move.

However I do believe a halfway house measure like banning or having a congestion charge for all single occupancy vehicles between the canals at peak hours would be a good idea and would have a positive effect on traffic levels. It wouldn't prevent people driving to work but it would force them to car pool thus reducing the overall number of vehicles through the city centre.

Another idea would be to upgrade the R148 (former N4) into the city to a managed motorway similar to that in the Dublin Port Tunnel - such is an effective public transport route during rush hour - when I had to use express buses into town in the aftermath of the Malahide Rail Viaduct collapse, the tunnel worked very well for both inbound and outbound bus services that I used. The toll pricing structure strongly discourages car journeys inbound during the AM rush and outbound during the PM rush. If the Kennelsfort flyover at Palmerston was implemented, the old Lucan Road reconstructed across the M50 and a short parallel road built to link up the old road sections in Palmerston and Chapelizod, a managed motorway (80kph speed limit) from the M50 to Con Colbert Road might be possible using electronic tolling with a pricing policy similar to that of the Dublin Port Tunnel - that shouldn't take too long to implement if the political will is there. Of course, buses would go free in the hope that transport companies would seize upon the opportunity to set up efficient bus routes via this motorway. However, such a relatively low cost scheme would not absolve the government in relation to the DART Inter-connector - this line is needed like yesterday.

marno21 · 10-12-2016 4:30pm

1. Build DART Underground, Metro North and the DART Expansion plan, meanwhile removing ALL level crossings inside Maynooth, Balbriggan, Hazelhatch and Greystones, to facilitate high frequency and less speed restrictions. This is now the "alternative".

2. Upgrade the M1, N4, N7 & N11 to 3 lanes in either direction. Have a peak time congestion charge on using these roads at peak times.

Now you have 2 options.

Use the train. Or commute by car and pay the toll. The toll, like the DPT, can be paid if you want the luxury of the car commute. If you don't, there's a perfectly fine train running too.

Sam Russell · 10-12-2016 4:43pm

marno21 wrote: »

1. Build DART Underground, Metro North and the DART Expansion plan, meanwhile removing ALL level crossings inside Maynooth, Balbriggan, Hazelhatch and Greystones, to facilitate high frequency and less speed restrictions. This is now the "alternative".

2. Upgrade the M1, N4, N7 & N11 to 3 lanes in either direction. Have a peak time congestion charge on using these roads at peak times.

Now you have 2 options.

Use the train. Or commute by car and pay the toll. The toll, like the DPT, can be paid if you want the luxury of the car commute. If you don't, there's a perfectly fine train running too.

Option 3.

Levy all private off street parking spaces within the canals that are used for all day parking. [Residents parking would excluded]. If you cannot park, you cannot commute by car.

newacc2015 · 10-12-2016 4:45pm

I dont see how the congestion charge would be useful. Most people driving into the City at peak, dont actually work there. They are driving through Dublin City to get to the opposite side. There are office blocks in Dublin City with thousands of workers in them with a handful of spaces. One of the REITs has built a 120,000 sq foot office block with about a dozen spaces.

The problem with Dublin is that takes too long to get across the city on public transport. I took a bus to Dundrum during the week. If I drove I would have done it in 20 mins max. It took me nearly 90 mins on the bus. Why would I take the bus versus driving?

Owning a car is really expensive in this country. If there was a cheaper and as time efficient mode of transport like the bus, people would take the bus. But if people would rather pay €3-6k per year to own a car versus €1320 for an annual bus ticket. Making driving in the city more expensive probably wont stop people doing it. Making getting across the city faster will stop people driving into the city.

The worst congestion in the city is generally around Glasnevin/Drumcondra/Phisboro/Cabra according to Google maps. Where there also is no efficient public transport like the DART/Luas. A congestion charge would only be punishing the residents of areas where TDs have decided not to invest in decent public transport.

Sam Russell · 10-12-2016 5:00pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

The worst congestion in the city is generally around Glasnevin/Drumcondra/Phisboro/Cabra according to Google maps. Where there also is no efficient public transport like the DART/Luas. A congestion charge would only be punishing the residents of areas where TDs have decided not to invest in decent public transport.

Phibsboro/Cabra are getting the Luas BXD line. Drumcondra already has the PPT and Maynooth lines, and would be the expected route for MN - just not yet. Dart Underground would allow more trains (possibly Dart) on the Maynooth line.

cravings · 10-12-2016 5:47pm

how do you see this working with commercial vehicles?

would the congestion charge be a charge on every single incident of entering the city, or would it buy you a 24 hour pass or similar?

would the charge be in place 24 / 7?

just curious how people are seeing this implemented.

Sam Russell · 10-12-2016 7:36pm

I think the congestion charge could apply for the hours of 7am to 10 am M-F.

However, it is parking that commuters be car need. I think all day parking should also be hit with a levy, maybe with parking over 3 hrs being made much more expensive.

markpb · 10-12-2016 7:44pm

Sam Russell wrote:

Phibsboro/Cabra are getting the Luas BXD line. Drumcondra already has the PPT and Maynooth lines, and would be the expected route for MN - just not yet. Dart Underground would allow more trains (possibly Dart) on the Maynooth line.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves!

PPT and the Maynooth line will have very little impact on travel patterns in Drumcondra over the next decade. Those lines are targeted at solving a single problem: getting office people from the western suburbs to the city centre and Dart line and home again. That's absolutely fine, it's a good market to target for suburban rail operations. It would be a fallacy to suggest that people living in Drumcondra will use either of those lines to get anywhere. The reasons for that should be obvious.

Metro North is unlikely to commence operations in the next two decades and I suspect Dart Underground is even further away.

Sam Russell · 10-12-2016 8:29pm

markpb wrote: »

Let's not get ahead of ourselves!

PPT and the Maynooth line will have very little impact on travel patterns in Drumcondra over the next decade. Those lines are targeted at solving a single problem: getting office people from the western suburbs to the city centre and Dart line and home again. That's absolutely fine, it's a good market to target for suburban rail operations. It would be a fallacy to suggest that people living in Drumcondra will use either of those lines to get anywhere. The reasons for that should be obvious.

Metro North is unlikely to commence operations in the next two decades and I suspect Dart Underground is even further away.

Where are people going from Drumcondra? - it is already close to the CC. The PPT trains go to GCD - handy for Google. Walking distance to OCS. Buses galore. Where else do you want to go?

Admittedly we will be waiting a long time for MN or DU - a long long time.

marno21 · 10-12-2016 10:22pm

Sam Russell,

If people aren't allowed commute by car, how are they meant to commute? Most people who sit in their car for 4 hours a day don't have a choice. There is nowhere for them to live in Dublin, and the PT is pathetic.

And please don't start about buses. We need to move on from buses.

L1011 · 10-12-2016 11:19pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Option 3.

Levy all private off street parking spaces within the canals that are used for all day parking. [Residents parking would excluded]. If you cannot park, you cannot commute by car.

Levy them in what manner? Most of them are private carparks that charge already - are you intending to put a racking price in after a certain level of usage? It is a myth that there are large quantities of employer provided spaces (recent planning has ensured this - blocks build for 800 staff have 60 spaces etc) and most of those employers would pay whatever it takes for the key employees that get them anyway

There is no capacity on peak services in to the city on most routes. You can apply all the stick you want and people are not going to change from cars because there is nothing for them to change *to*.

Add a thousand P+R spaces at Red Cow and the trams inbound at peak will still be crush full and nobody extra *can* use them. Make Navan Road Parkway free and the trains will still be crush full and nobody extra can use them

There needs to be more buses on core routes, more express buses from outer suburbs that run set down only after a certain point (replaced with said extra buses) due to ridiculous journey times, more commuter rail capacity and more Luas capacity - this is next to impossible to provide on the Red Line though.

Those in favour of punitive approaches have forgotten that the carrot needs to exist - Taxsaver et al are great if you can use them, but the capacity is not there.

Deedsie wrote: »

Ah come on Marno, we need to move on from single occupant private motor cars during peak hours much more urgently than moving away from buses.

And the only way to do this is by providing an alternative - because there is no capacity.

markpb · 10-12-2016 11:22pm

Deedsie wrote:

Ah come on Marno, we need to move on from single occupant private motor cars during peak hours much more urgently than moving away from buses.

Maybe the two are linked?

Sam Russell · 10-12-2016 11:53pm

The Port Tunnel is priced to discourage car commuting into the city. Many public servants have free car parking - maybe that is a starting point. Just look at Kevin St Garda station for 'free parking'.

Controlling parking must be possible, but it would have to be introduced gradually - like they are doing with the 30 kph limit. Maybe start with getting rid of some of the on-street parking that adds to congestion. Northumberlad Road has paid parking in the bus lane!

If buses travelled at twice the speed, there would be twice the capacity, and it is private cars, both in jams and parked, that cause much of the slowdown.

I know many people have no choice but to commute by car, but many could use public transport. I heard of someone who took 2 hrs to go from Sallins to Sandymount by car, but can now go by PPT service in just over an hour. He is delighted. DU and MN would be needed to start changing commuter pattern.

I would think a greater subvention for PT would be the direction to go. The continual rise in fares does not help the cause of getting people to forgo the convenience of the car.

L1011 · 11-12-2016 12:02am

PPT is a new service with new capacity. Its a pretty bad example for the idea that existing capacity can help. Many people will take longer in a car versus the feeling of compressive asphyxia.

Bray Head · 11-12-2016 8:50am

Congestion charges are expensive to run. From memory I think the London costs one third of what it takes in just to run. So this would be a big inefficiency.

I would much prefer to see road pricing implemented nationally. A per-km charge to drive everywhere, which starts at a very low level and steeply increases for urban areas at peak times. Ideally this would replace excise and could be used as a credit against motor tax.

Sadly this would never get past the civil liberties crew and could also run foul of EU law.

In the meantime I am not sure there is an easy solution for Dublin. The congestion is not just limited to the centre, or to traffic driving to and from it.

ncounties · 10-12-2019 8:48am

Reviving this thread as it's come up in the Metrolink thread.

"Transport for London (TfL) reported that the charge reduced traffic by 15% and congestion – that is, the extra time a trip would take because of traffic – by 30%." (source).

Although it is not the silver bullet to our problems, this coupled with a simultaneous significant reduction in parking spaces in the city centre could lead to vast improvements in the city centre.

prunudo · 10-12-2019 9:11am

If it is implemented, it needs to be done in conjunction with increased public transport capacity. You can't just remove a mode of commuting and not have a reliable alternative.

LeinsterDub · 10-12-2019 9:20am

prunudo wrote: »

If it is implemented, it needs to be done in conjunction with increased public transport capacity. You can't just remove a mode of commuting and not have a reliable alternative.

We've limited road capacity. This is exactly what has to happen. Road spaces needs to be given to public transport, cycling and walking. Maybe a congestion charge is the last thing to do but it's part of a whole series that should happen.

Thinkingaboutit · 10-12-2019 9:33am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We've limited road capacity. This is exactly what has to happen. Road spaces needs to be given to public transport, cycling and walking. Maybe a congestion charge is the last thing to do but it's part of a whole series that should happen.

One really necessary thing for walking is to ensure that all major junctions have lights at each part of the junction. Now lots of them have a pedestrian crossing at maybe one or another part of the junction. New York City can have lights at every junction (I know the gridiron pattern makes it more straightforward and roundabouts with lights can result in extra congestion), so surely Dublin could get that.

LeinsterDub · 10-12-2019 9:36am

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

One really necessary thing for walking is to ensure that all major junctions have lights at each part of the junction. Now lots of them have a pedestrian crossing at maybe one or another part of the junction. New York City can have lights at every junction (I know the gridiron pattern makes it more straightforward and roundabouts with lights can result in extra congestion), so surely Dublin could get that.

Forget lights. They are traffic lights and are used control traffic. Zerba crossings at all but the most dangerous junctions please and those lights should default to green for people walking

prunudo · 10-12-2019 9:39am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We've limited road capacity. This is exactly what has to happen. Road spaces needs to be given to public transport, cycling and walking. Maybe a congestion charge is the last thing to do but it's part of a whole series that should happen.

Absolutely, maybe it could be implemented along side the roll out of Bus Connects.
A mate of mine drives into the city every day, I think he's wrong for doing it but it says a lot for the alternatives when he'd rather sit in his car for 1hr 30 in the evenings than take public transport.

magicbastarder · 10-12-2019 9:45am

prunudo wrote: »

If it is implemented, it needs to be done in conjunction with increased public transport capacity.

if you increased the speed at which public transport can move by removing the moving roadblocks, you would automatically (albeit theoretically) increase capacity.
in that if buses were to move, say, 20% faster, they'd be able to perform 20% more journeys in a day. that obviously comes with a caveat of timetables having to be shuffled to allow for this, but in rush hour, timetables are probably a work of hopeful fiction anyway.

ncounties · 10-12-2019 10:17am

If it is implemented, it needs to be done in conjunction with increased public transport capacity. You can't just remove a mode of commuting and not have a reliable alternative.

The purpose of congestion charging is reducing unnecessary journeys - i.e. a journey that can be walked, cycled or using existing public transport. If anything, it will deter those that live close to the zone, as opposed to those that commute longer distances into Dublin by car.

Zebra3 · 10-12-2019 11:55am

Remove dedicated car space and reallocate it to dedicate and safe cycling space.

prunudo · 10-12-2019 12:37pm

ncounties wrote: »

The purpose of congestion charging is reducing unnecessary journeys - i.e. a journey that can be walked, cycled or using existing public transport. If anything, it will deter those that live close to the zone, as opposed to those that commute longer distances into Dublin by car.

Naively never thought it from that point. If I lived in a city I would never think of using a car to move around.

MJohnston · 11-12-2019 1:04am

I posted similar before in a ****ehouse of a thread called "M50 Congestion" but perhaps it is more appropriate here.

The simplest way to state the cycle of car abuse we're trapped in is:

1. Before you remove cars, car drivers need better transport options.
2. Before you can add better transport options, you need to remove cars from the roads.

Now, some will say that Metro or Luas are the solutions, but any beyond those already proposed are 10-plus-years solutions, at the very best. We need solutions that will start working within months, not decades. What we do have coming sooner is BusConnects, which is something that absolutely needs car reduction methods attached to be a success. There are also DART upgrades, but they're basically all capacity changes, rather than drastically expanding the reach of public transport.

Dublin is also heavily reliant upon on-road public transport, there is no escaping this anytime before those (still cancellable) Metro trains start accepting passengers.

So, if you come back to those 2 steps above, it's pretty clear that it's physically impossible to make Dublin public transport better without removing cars. But it's completely possible to remove cars before transport is better, in order to make it better.

That's the only pragmatic short-to-medium term way out of that destructive cycle.

What I think needs to happen, and could happen with a strong will, within the next year or two:
1. Phased removal of non-residential permit-based street parking within Dublin City centre.
2. Actually go ahead with the introduction of levies on private office car parks, and increase levies on MSCPs.
3. Legalisation of e-scooters, with an invitation to tender for rental firms like Lime/Bird/etc.
4. Upgrades to Dublin Bikes and Bleeperbikes to see the introduction of e-Bike fleets alongside the manual pedal cycles.
5. Expansion of the Dublin Bikes station network.
6. Rapid and increased spending on segregated cycling/scooter infrastructure throughout the city.
7. Acceleration of the BusConnects schedule where possible.
8. Immediate, accelerated funding of Metrolink.
9. Massively increased pedestrianisation throughout Dublin city centre.
10. Automated, widespread enforcement of bus lanes and gates throughout the city (and country).

LeinsterDub · 11-12-2019 10:34am

MJohnston wrote: »

What I think needs to happen, and could happen with a strong will, within the next year or two:
1. Phased removal of non-residential permit-based street parking within Dublin City centre.
2. Actually go ahead with the introduction of levies on private office car parks, and increase levies on MSCPs.
3. Legalisation of e-scooters, with an invitation to tender for rental firms like Lime/Bird/etc.
4. Upgrades to Dublin Bikes and Bleeperbikes to see the introduction of e-Bike fleets alongside the manual pedal cycles.
5. Expansion of the Dublin Bikes station network.
6. Rapid and increased spending on segregated cycling/scooter infrastructure throughout the city.
7. Acceleration of the BusConnects schedule where possible.
8. Immediate, accelerated funding of Metrolink.
9. Massively increased pedestrianisation throughout Dublin city centre.
10. Automated, widespread enforcement of bus lanes and gates throughout the city (and country).

100% with the addition of this as the first step

0. Immediate crackdown on illegal parking.

If people had to actually park legally a lot of the "I'm just nipping 2 minutes down the road" trips become I've to walk 4 minutes to get my car , drive for 4 minutes , spend 5 minutes finding some where to park and walk 3 minutes to my destination or I could just walk the 6 minutes to the shop

Sam Russell · 11-12-2019 1:00pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

100% with the addition of this as the first step

0. Immediate crackdown on illegal parking.

If people had to actually park legally a lot of the "I'm just nipping 2 minutes down the road" trips become I've to walk 4 minutes to get my car , drive for 4 minutes , spend 5 minutes finding some where to park and walk 3 minutes to my destination or I could just walk the 6 minutes to the shop

Yesterday, I was walking towards Sydney Parade Dart station and there was a security van collecting the takings illegally parked on the double yellows - so what is unusual in that? Well a few metres up from that vehicle was a Garda van parked on the double yellows, opposite a continuous white line, and parked with two wheels on the pavement. The Garda could have parked an extra few metres away quite legally.

So if the Garda habitually park illegally, what hope is there?

Thelonious Monk · 11-12-2019 2:14pm

MJohnston wrote: »

3. Legalisation of e-scooters, with an invitation to tender for rental firms like Lime/Bird/etc.

These are all great ideas but lol at the above. Never going to happen, Ireland hates cyclists and eScooters seem to be loathed just as much. All it would take is someone to call Joe Duffy complaining about them and they'd be banned immediately, if that hasn't happened already. Someone got 5 penalty points and a €300 fine for being on an eScooter a few days ago. Points on his driving licence!
Nothing will change regarding cars in Dublin, too many vested interests, the only thing that will lessen congestion is the next recession. I think it's purely down to most people not wanting any change.

MJohnston · 11-12-2019 2:50pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

These are all great ideas but lol at the above. Never going to happen, Ireland hates cyclists and eScooters seem to be loathed just as much. All it would take is someone to call Joe Duffy complaining about them and they'd be banned immediately, if that hasn't happened already. Someone got 5 penalty points and a €300 fine for being on an eScooter a few days ago. Points on his driving licence!
Nothing will change regarding cars in Dublin, too many vested interests, the only thing that will lessen congestion is the next recession. I think it's purely down to most people not wanting any change.

So you're complaining that things won't change and laughing at ideas that would change things? This is part of the problem.

Dublin congestion charge - would it help? [see post #7]

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