El Presidente Trump

Palmy · 03-12-2016 02:39AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Palmy wrote: »

Yeah lets just let their jobs go so we can pay for unemployment for gods knows how long then. How much is that going to cost us the tax payers and the government?, a lot more than 7 Mil me thinks.

Fact is Trump said he would bring the jobs home. He just lost 1,300+ jobs and paid over $7mn to do at the same time. The incompetence is remarkable, and we haven't even got started yet! Then there's the 350 jobs literally less than a mile down the road at Rexnord-Corp Corp moving to Mexico too. I'm just holding the man to the standards he laid out, that's all.

And he's supposed to fix this over night ? He's. it even president yet . Good to see Obama step up in South Dakota too.. not

InTheTrees · 03-12-2016 02:47AM

Palmy wrote: »

I don't know how they do it but like every where else there is a way to dodge the system.

Well I think most people dont scam the system.

In the US you get eighteen months of unemployment payments based on how much you've paid in. After that nothing.

Then you're on your own. No "dole".

Billy86 · 03-12-2016 02:54AM

Palmy wrote: »

And he's supposed to fix this over night ? He's. it even president yet . Good to see Obama step up in South Dakota too.. not

Did he say he'd bring the jobs back? Yes.
Has he done that? No.
Has he paid companies to move jobs abroad? Yes. Not just in his business career (including his own companies) but just this week.

But we shouldn't be surprised...

“I think we've all become aware of the fact that our cultures and economics are intertwined,”

“There won't be any winners or losers as this is not a competition. It's a time for working together for the best of all involved,

“In this case, the solution is clear. We will have to leave borders behind and go for global unity when it comes to financial stability.”
- Donald Trump.

Its pretty cut and dry. He wanted to hold people accountable, now it's his turn. It's going to be a long four years, not least of all for the rust belt and working class Americans.

InTheTrees · 03-12-2016 04:38AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Its pretty cut and dry. He wanted to hold people accountable, now it's his turn. It's going to be a long four years, not least of all for the rust belt and working class Americans.

Oh my god he's screwing it up already and he isnt even president.

He's made a complete mess of his plan to keep jobs at The Carrier plant in Indiana. Now it looks like he might even have shares in the parent company! Hysterical.

03-12-2016 10:57AM

Can someone correct me on this.. Obama said the jobs were definitely gone. Trump gave some promises of breaks and now some jobs are staying. Are people annoyed at this or do I have it wrong?

FA Hayek · 03-12-2016 12:42PM

My name is URL wrote: »

So much for draining that swamp, eh Trumpets? Like the dumb bitch in the article, you's played yourselves!

I am curious. Is she a dumb bitch because she voted for Trump or just in general.

FA Hayek · 03-12-2016 12:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Can someone correct me on this.. Obama said the jobs were definitely gone. Trump gave some promises of breaks and now some jobs are staying. Are people annoyed at this or do I have it wrong?

They are annoyed for the sake of being annoyed. If Trump cured cancer there would still be people moaning. The same with Obama mind. However, Trump has not even been sworn in and people are writing him off already.

Billy86 · 03-12-2016 01:21PM

It's funny remembering how much Republicans lost their mind over Obama's bailouts but can't stop jumping for joy over this. Unexpected, but at least one person is staying consistent - Sarah Palin, who was a big fan of Trump's during the campaign trail.

“When government steps in arbitrarily with individual subsidies, favouring one business over others,” she wrote, “it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent.”

“A $20 trillion debt-ridden country can’t afford this sinfully stupid practice,” she cautioned, “so vigilantly guard against its continuance, or we’re doomed.”

Ms Palin added: “Republicans oppose this, remember? Instead, we support competition on a level playing field, remember? Because we know special interest crony capitalism is one big fail.”

That's 1,300 of Trump's rust belt demographic screwed over before he's even been inaugurated - and that's being kind enough to not mention the 350 other ones less than a mile away. Of course many of us saw this coming a mile off, they were conned by a career con artist. During the campaign Trump said: "you’re going to pay a damn tax when you leave this country" - and yet here he is already getting bent backwards over a barrel and giving companies tax breaks to do just that, move nearly one and a half thousand jobs abroad.

InTheTrees · 03-12-2016 01:39PM

FA Hayek wrote: »

They are annoyed for the sake of being annoyed.

I think they're more annoyed by trump abandoning his campaign promises before he's even been inaugurated.

It'll probably be a bit of a surprise to his supporters, especially the tax payers of Indiana.

03-12-2016 01:44PM

Billy86, do you stand by what you wrote previously in this thread?

Has he paid companies to move jobs abroad? Yes. Not just in his business career (including his own companies) but just this week.

InTheTrees · 03-12-2016 01:52PM

oik wrote: »

900 a month is what a family of 4 typically gets from welfare.

There seems to be a misconception by people living outside the USA.

There is no "dole" in the USA. There are no long term unemployment payments. You get 18 months of unemployment insurance payments if you lose your job and thats it. After that nothing at all.

These blue collar long term unemployed trump voters are not kicking back living on state benefits. They're struggling. And they're going to expect results.

InTheTrees · 03-12-2016 02:08PM

China made an official diplomatic protest today about trumps call to the president of tiawan after nearly 40 years of no diplomatic contact with the country.

It'll be fun to see whether the permits for his hotel in Tiawan get accepted now, the Chinese will love that.

Igotadose · 03-12-2016 02:16PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

There seems to be a misconception by people living outside the USA.

There is no "dole" in the USA. There are no long term unemployment payments. You get 18 months of unemployment insurance payments if you lose your job and thats it. After that nothing at all.

These blue collar long term unemployed trump voters are not kicking back living on state benefits. They're struggling. And they're going to expect results.

Thanks for clarifying this. Adding a bit, the states and the Congress can mess with how long the benefits last. 18 months is what's most common (I think the numbers like 99 weeks actually). But, North Carolina and Florida are less. Also, another confusion is about 'welfare.' There really isn't welfare anymore in the US - the Fed program is TANF, and most states are phasing it out or have phased it out. So, if you're unemployed, you get benefits - assuming you worked long enough to qualify and your state doesn't' use a sliding scale (this stuff's really complicated!), for about 18 months, then, good luck!

The extension is also subject to Congress playing football with it; Obama had to twist arms to get the Feds to agree to fund the 2013 program that had expired. Not sure how long it's funded for, Trump'll no doubt have the opportunity to mess with it. Who knows what he'll do.

Billy86 · 03-12-2016 02:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Billy86, do you stand by what you wrote previously in this thread?

Has he paid companies to move jobs abroad? Yes. Not just in his business career (including his own companies) but just this week.

Sure, he's got suits, perfume, cuff links, eyeglasses and more made in countries like China, Honduras and Bangladesh - all jobs stolen from the US public. Many of his daughters own line of jewelry and clothing are also made in China. Maybe I have missed it... has Trump made any efforts in recent weeks to move these manufacturing jobs back to the US? Certainly doesn't seem like it.

And just this week he gave Carrier a gift of $7mn in tax incentives and more again that has yet to be disclosed for them to move over 1,300 jobs from their Huntington and Indianapolis plants out of the USA.: "We are moving forward with previously announced plans to relocate the fan coil manufacturing lines, with expected completion by the end of 2017." - Carrier.

What more would you expect from an open borders advocate like Trump? "We will have to leave borders behind and go for global unity when it comes to financial stability."

And as was obvious, the Huntington workers in particular are very unhappy. The rust belters voted for him out of desperation and sold themselves to a con artist, and the backlash when he continues to scre them is indeed going to be YUGE:

"His whole campaign was focused on Indy," Huntington plant employee Mike Harmon told ABC2. "I never heard one thing about the Huntington plant. So yeah, we do feel forgotten."

This is the standard of criticism that Trump and his fans wanted to set, so it would be unfair to Donald to do anything other than hold them to it.

Palmy · 03-12-2016 02:20PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Palmy wrote: »

I don't know how they do it but like every where else there is a way to dodge the system.

Well I think most people dont scam the system.

In the US you get eighteen months of unemployment payments based on how much you've paid in. After that nothing.

"Well most people don't scam the system" your kidding me right. I have single mothers who I work with that have three kids unmarried and live with the father who she says can't find and is milking the system. Other is trying to get fired from work so she can go on unemployment then move onto disability which everyone milks.

InTheTrees · 03-12-2016 03:05PM

Palmy wrote: »

"Well most people don't scam the system" your kidding me right. I have single mothers who I work with that have three kids unmarried and live with the father who she says can't find and is milking the system. Other is trying to get fired from work so she can go on unemployment then move onto disability which everyone milks.

No, I'm not kidding. I don't believe the majority of people are scamming the system.

You're suggesting the majority of people whos unemployment benefits have run out are scamming disability?

What state are you talking about?

Jelle1880 · 03-12-2016 03:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Can someone correct me on this.. Obama said the jobs were definitely gone. Trump gave some promises of breaks and now some jobs are staying. Are people annoyed at this or do I have it wrong?

Because it's likely a false sense of security for those that keep their jobs.

Obama said they would be gone because that's what will happen down the line regardless. A lot of people seem to ignore the fact that the Huntington factory will still be closed.

There's a reason why not just left-winged people think that in the long run this is a bad deal. It's showing that threatening to leave will be sufficient for many companies to get tax breaks and other beneficial deals.

It's great for those people that keep their job of course, but Mexico has never been the main area where US companies look for to relocate. That's still the likes of China and the rest of Asia. And I doubt he can stop that.

Yourself isit · 03-12-2016 03:12PM

I'm not really following this story. Did this company reverse its decision to go to Mexico or not?

rickfisher1988 · 03-12-2016 03:20PM

Am I the only one in here who actually thinks Trump might make a good president. While I don't agree with him on every policy, a lot of what he says is true. The problem with most Irish people is that they don't know real America - they only know the parts that are reflections of themselves; the tourist spots on the East and West coasts.

While I think Obama has been a great president, there has been a major lack of investment in infrastructure in the US for years. I've spent many years in America, and have experienced less than first world roads, airports, hospitals, and general infrastructure.

I'm also happy to see Trump take a more assertive role in foreign policy.

Finally, we have become overly political correct in our ideology and outlook.

Looking forward to the next four years

Palmy · 03-12-2016 03:27PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Palmy wrote: »

"Well most people don't scam the system" your kidding me right. I have single mothers who I work with that have three kids unmarried and live with the father who she says can't find and is milking the system. Other is trying to get fired from work so she can go on unemployment then move onto disability which everyone milks.

No, I'm not kidding. I don't believe the majority of people are scamming the system.

You're suggesting the majority of people whos unemployment benefits have run out are scamming disability?

What state are you talking about?

Well it's like that here in Florida.

Palmy · 03-12-2016 03:31PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Palmy wrote: »

"Well most people don't scam the system" your kidding me right. I have single mothers who I work with that have three kids unmarried and live with the father who she says can't find and is milking the system. Other is trying to get fired from work so she can go on unemployment then move onto disability which everyone milks.

No, I'm not kidding. I don't believe the majority of people are scamming the system.

You're suggesting the majority of people whos unemployment benefits have run out are scamming disability?

What state are you talking about?

Look at all the democratic vote areas that came out of Florida alone , it's all the areas with a high amount lower class areas. Places like Miami as they think they are going to lose benefits if Trump got in. The democratics every time using scare tactics against the republicans for votes.

03-12-2016 03:41PM

Billy86 wrote: »

And just this week he gave Carrier a gift of $7mn in tax incentives and more again that has yet to be disclosed for them to move over 1,300 jobs from their Huntington and Indianapolis plants out of the USA.

Has he paid companies to move jobs abroad? Yes.

Are you a non-native speaker by any chance? You don't seem to understand the structures "pay ____ to ____" and "____ to move ____" and it totally changes the meaning here.

Billy86 · 03-12-2016 04:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Has he paid companies to move jobs abroad? Yes.

Are you a non-native speaker by any chance? You don't seem to understand the structures "pay ____ to ____" and "____ to move ____" and it totally changes the meaning here.

He gave them money in the form of tax incentives knowing the end result would be them moving jobs abroad, hence he paid them to move jobs abroad.

Which of these statements are you disputing?
1. Trump has given Carrier tax incentives up of $7 million dollars, if not more.
2. Carrier are still moving in the region of 1,300 jobs abroad.
3. Trump knew Carrier would still be moving 1,300 odd jobs abroad and gave them the money all the same.

If it's #3, he's been bent over even worse than I initially thought!

And can I assume by your silence on it that you've not heard a peep from Trump about him and his family moving their own internationally outsourced 'Trump' brand manufacturing jobs home?

Yourself isit · 03-12-2016 04:30PM

Billy86 wrote: »

He gave them money in the form of tax incentives knowing the end result would be them moving jobs abroad, hence he paid them to move jobs abroad.

Which of these statements are you disputing?
1. Trump has given Carrier tax incentives up of $7 million dollars, if not more.
2. Carrier are still moving in the region of 1,300 jobs abroad.
3. Trump knew Carrier would still be moving 1,300 odd jobs abroad and gave them the money all the same.

If it's #3, he's been bent over even worse than I initially thought!

And can I assume by your silence on it that you've not heard a peep from Trump about him and his family moving their own internationally outsourced 'Trump' brand manufacturing jobs home?

The stories I see indicate that some jobs are being saved. Not that's it's trumps money nor is he president.

Billy86 · 03-12-2016 04:43PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

The stories I see indicate that some jobs are being saved. Not that's it's trumps money nor is he president.

Indeed it's not his own money (with Trump it almost never is) - it's the American public's. Or rather, it was the American public's until Trump went and gave it to Carrier in the knowledge they'd be moving 1,300 jobs abroad.

InTheTrees · 03-12-2016 05:03PM

Palmy wrote: »

Look at all the democratic vote areas that came out of Florida alone , it's all the areas with a high amount lower class areas. Places like Miami as they think they are going to lose benefits if Trump got in. The democratics every time using scare tactics against the republicans for votes.

Scamming disability insurance is not a benefit. It's fraud.

And a reflection of a broken system.

What has gov.scott done to help?

Yourself isit · 03-12-2016 05:09PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Indeed it's not his own money (with Trump it almost never is) - it's the American public's. Or rather, it was the American public's until Trump went and gave it to Carrier in the knowledge they'd be moving 1,300 jobs abroad.

He's not in charge of anything. He's not president yet. The money is from the State. Were jobs saved or not?

Billy86 · 03-12-2016 05:39PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

He's not in charge of anything. He's not president yet. The money is from the State. Were jobs saved or not?

So you're saying Trump didn't have the authority to make the deal he is taking credit for?

Double the amount of jobs lost and all at the low, low cost of over $7mn to the taxpayer, it's going to be some four years at this rate! :pac:

Unless you are indeed saying that Trump shouldn't be taking the 'credit' for this?

HellSquirrel · 03-12-2016 06:03PM

Billy86 wrote: »

He gave them money in the form of tax incentives knowing the end result would be them moving jobs abroad, hence he paid them to move jobs abroad.

Which of these statements are you disputing?
1. Trump has given Carrier tax incentives up of $7 million dollars, if not more.
2. Carrier are still moving in the region of 1,300 jobs abroad.
3. Trump knew Carrier would still be moving 1,300 odd jobs abroad and gave them the money all the same.

Correction to point 2. Carrier are moving about 1,000 jobs to Mexico and are keeping the other 1,200 in Indiana (as of the latest I've heard). According to one of the articles on it, it works out as about $7,000/job. To put that in perspective, when Obama made his deal to root the auto industry out of its pit of despair, it worked out at about $6,000/job, so it is technically more expensive and less effective -although- it is only a show move to indicate he means it. Obama's policies were the result of a lot of behind the scenes work to get a consistent improvement. This is actually not really a slight on Trump, he's not president yet and his powers are more limited.

-However-, it does set some worrying precedents. Even, of all people, head Trump cheerleader Sarah Palin was critical of the deal, saying that this sort of "crony capitalism" is exactly what the Republican party does not stand for. Secondly, it could prompt other companies, especially primary industry (mining, etc) to make noises about moving to cut a deal.

I think this one is a bit of a wait and see how it turns out.

Billy86 · 03-12-2016 06:21PM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Correction to point 2. Carrier are moving about 1,000 jobs to Mexico and are keeping the other 1,200 in Indiana (as of the latest I've heard). According to one of the articles on it, it works out as about $7,000/job. To put that in perspective, when Obama made his deal to root the auto industry out of its pit of despair, it worked out at about $6,000/job, so it is technically more expensive and less effective -although- it is only a show move to indicate he means it. Obama's policies were the result of a lot of behind the scenes work to get a consistent improvement. This is actually not really a slight on Trump, he's not president yet and his powers are more limited.

-However-, it does set some worrying precedents. Even, of all people, head Trump cheerleader Sarah Palin was critical of the deal, saying that this sort of "crony capitalism" is exactly what the Republican party does not stand for. Secondly, it could prompt other companies, especially primary industry (mining, etc) to make noises about moving to cut a deal.

I think this one is a bit of a wait and see how it turns out.

[/quote]Nah, more in the 700-800 region - http://qz.com/849078/donald-trumps-deal-with-carrier-for-american-jobs-doesnt-look-as-good-in-the-light-of-day/ . 730 production line jobs, and about 70 'salaried positions', the latter of which were unlikely to ever be going anywhere in the first place. Meanwhile, 1,300 are still going.

I actually have to credit Palin, because the GOP all across the board were so massively against the bail out that watching them jump for joy over this is nothing short of hilarious. Oh, and guess what Trump had to say about that himself...

"Obama is a terrible negotiator. He bails out Chrysler and now Chrysler wants to send all Jeep manufacturing to China—and will!"

And on that note... Jeep most American-made brand with nearly 97 percent of its vehicles born in the USA

All I'm doing is holding Trump and his followers to the same standards they set here, and he is failing very, very badly already. Rather than bringing jobs home, he's paying for them to be moved abroad.

El Presidente Trump

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