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El Presidente Trump

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Comments

  • #5402
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    If Trump believes there were voting irregularities as he himself has said in the last week or two, why is he not only failing to look into, but now eagerly trying to block any further investigation into the election?

    All very strange...


  • #5403
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    ebbsy wrote: »
    That direction includes the current recount I presume ? After day one Hillary has gained one vote. Well done to her.

    Good heavens, no-one expected it to be overturned :P

    No, sure, people are keeping up with that as it's part of the whole thing (I assume you know that recounts are a perfectly normal part of the democratic process!), but also what the dear leader is up to, who he's appointing and what their angles are. So far, he's got one messy-as-hell cabinet. The Carrier thing was interesting, but I don't really see that he can do that more than once or twice, and even then it's a dodgy business using threats and bribes to keep business in the country. Not that governments don't do that in general, but generally they at least pretend subtlety, if only so other companies don't know exactly what they can get away with demanding.


  • #5404
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    HellSquirrel wrote: »
    The Carrier thing was interesting, but I don't really see that he can do that more than once or twice.
    Not os much interesting about it, he cost the US taxpayer $7mn to save one hundred jobs. It was a weak negotiation that saw him get bent over the table and ridden thoroughly and he knows it, hence his angry statements made in Ohio threatening other companies and the likes.

    Its probably too late already though, there's blood in the water and the sharks at other companies will have already smelled it.


  • #5405
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Not os much interesting about it, he cost the US taxpayer $7mn to save one hundred jobs.

    1,000 out of 1,700 as I read, I think?


  • #5406
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Also less than a mile from that Carrier plant is Rexnord-Corp. They are moving 350 jobs to Mexico. Maybe Trump can get on the phone and offer them millions to keep 10 or 20 of those net jobs in the US too? :pac:


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  • #5407
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    HellSquirrel wrote: »
    1,000 out of 1,700 as I read, I think?
    Apologies, had misread an article. Turns out they were looking to move about 2,000 jobs between the Huntington and Indianapolis sites, and are now moving... 1,300. Meaning 700 jobs were temporarily saved, at a cost of $7mn, or costing the taxpayer $10k per job.

    Or in other words and holding him to his own standards, he lost 1,300 jobs and spent $7mn and likely more (because we still don't have the specifics) of the taxpayers money in doing so.

    Sounds sustainable...


  • #5408
    Palmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 350 ✭✭Palmy


    Yeah lets just let their jobs go so we can pay for unemployment for gods knows how long then. How much is that going to cost  us the tax payers and the government?, a lot more than 7 Mil me thinks.

    And on the Obama care side of things my insurance has gone up since it was introduced from around $12,500 yr  till just over $15,000 a year for 70% coverage and family copy of $3,500 per person in family (x3 for me). Yup that was going to get cheaper wasn't  it, that certainly worked.


  • #5409
    vetinari
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭vetinari


    Palmy are you actually buying a health exchange policy or talking about your employer based insurance?

    Either way insurance costs have being going up for years.
    The pricing of prescription drugs and hospital services is the major reason why.


  • #5410
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,928 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Trump became the first President/President Elect to speak with the leader of Taiwan since the severing of relations in 1979.

    Interesting times ahead for the US relationship with China.


  • #5411
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    Skommando wrote: »
    I'm not the one getting worked up. Trump, and even more importantly, democracy, won.
    The joke is on you.

    The lady doth protest too much. For two pages or so.


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  • #5412
    Skommando
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Skommando


    HellSquirrel wrote: »
    The lady doth protest too much. For two pages or so.

    Hillary was on here ? Can she not handle democracy either ?

    I'm celebrating a victory for democracy, the loosers are the ones protesting.


  • #5413
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    Skommando wrote: »
    Hillary was on here ? Can she not handle democracy either ?

    I'm celebrating a victory for democracy, the loosers are the ones protesting.

    Yes, yes, you won, you're wonderful. And it's page 364 now, so can we get back to actually talking about important stuff rather than soothing sore winners' egos? :rolleyes:


  • #5414
    Palmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 350 ✭✭Palmy


    vetinari wrote: »
    Palmy are you actually buying a health exchange policy or talking about your employer based insurance?

    Either way insurance costs have being going up for years.
    The pricing of prescription drugs and hospital services is the major reason why.


    That's my employer health policy with me contributing about $4000yr. But I have friends who are paying privately about $1600mth for about the same coverage. Both have gone up significantly since Obama care as now we have to hold health insurance. My family went to the doctors twice last year and we pay $40 copay per visit. Before with no insurance it was $100 a visit without insurance. I know the big what if factor comes in, but I had reserves for that. You pretty much pay health insurance all your life until you really need it when you retire and go on social security but still can't most can't afford the extra premium coverage.


  • #5415
    Skommando
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Skommando


    HellSquirrel wrote: »
    Yes, yes, you won, you're wonderful. And it's page 364 now, so can we get back to actually talking about important stuff rather than soothing sore winners' egos? :rolleyes:

    as soon as you stop protesting the democratic result . . . what "important stuff" have you got for us all, a tweet you're hysterical about is it ?


  • #5416
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    Skommando wrote: »
    as soon as you stop protesting the democratic result . . . what "important stuff" have you got for us all, a tweet you're hysterical about is it ?

    It's a -****- result, but it's a democratic one and the only ones being frankly undemocratic are you guys filibustering because god forbid the conversation isn't about your views for five minutes. Going by the small group of regulars, most of you don't even like the guy or feel him to be a very good anything. He's just pissing off the leftists so...yay? Every time the conversation is getting interesting (and his cabinet picks are extremely interesting!), one of you guys is along to derail it by hysterically claiming that anyone debating is being hysterical.

    Can we just have the fecking conversation now? I'm sure there's a safe space in the Late Late Toy Show thread. Actually, on second thoughts, that's probably a lot more dangerous.


  • #5417
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    And just to be absolutely clear, I've not seen a single person protesting a democratic result, which was obtained. Sure, I've seen a few people sarkily pointing out that under democracy as the rest of us understand it, he didn't win the popular vote, someone else did. However, the US is a Federal Republic and by their laws and customs, he won fairly.

    No-one's arguing this.

    We can, however, still perfectly freely examine what he's up to and indeed rip the ever-living piss out of him. He's working on the whole First Amendment thing, but so far, I doubt it extends to an Irish website :P


  • #5418
    Skommando
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Skommando


    HellSquirrel wrote: »
    It's a -****- result, but it's a democratic one and the only ones being frankly undemocratic are you guys filibustering because god forbid the conversation isn't about your views for five minutes. Going by the small group of regulars, most of you don't even like the guy or feel him to be a very good anything. He's just pissing off the leftists so...yay? Every time the conversation is getting interesting (and his cabinet picks are extremely interesting!), one of you guys is along to derail it by hysterically claiming that anyone debating is being hysterical.

    Can we just have the fecking conversation now? I'm sure there's a safe space in the Late Late Toy Show thread. Actually, on second thoughts, that's probably a lot more dangerous.
    HellSquirrel wrote: »
    And just to be absolutely clear, I've not seen a single person protesting a democratic result, which was obtained. Sure, I've seen a few people sarkily pointing out that under democracy as the rest of us understand it, he didn't win the popular vote, someone else did. However, the US is a Federal Republic and by their laws and customs, he won fairly.

    No-one's arguing this.

    We can, however, still perfectly freely examine what he's up to and indeed rip the ever-living piss out of him. He's working on the whole First Amendment thing, but so far, I doubt it extends to an Irish website :P

    Still protesting ? Trump won. Stop hating democracy.


  • #5419
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Apologies, had misread an article. Turns out they were looking to move about 2,000 jobs between the Huntington and Indianapolis sites, and are now moving... 1,300. Meaning 700 jobs were temporarily saved, at a cost of $7mn, or costing the taxpayer $10k per job.

    Or in other words and holding him to his own standards, he lost 1,300 jobs and spent $7mn and likely more (because we still don't have the specifics) of the taxpayers money in doing so.

    Sounds sustainable...

    Assuming your maths are correct that's 10k over 10 years so more like 1k per worker. If it keeps them off the dole for 10 years that's saving the state ten's of millions over 10 years.

    Presumably you would have rejected that deal out of some arbitrary principle that has no value in the real world.

    Other countries do this all the time. Ireland does it. So Trump is just dealing with the world as it is not dealing with it as he wants it to be.


  • #5420
    HellSquirrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭HellSquirrel


    ...Yeah.

    So. Mixed reactions to the whole Carrier thing from people around him. People were definitely paying attention and he may have opened himself up to companies "moving" to negotiate tax deals. It's been made pretty clear what sort of terms can be made.

    Not that 1000 jobs saved isn't a good thing, it is. But this is a rather..flashy and one-off way of doing it. He needs a policy that will improve things rather than meeting one on one with every large company. The policy would be a hell of a lot harder to develop though.

    Edit: my post wasn't in response to yours, oik, we posted at the same time


  • #5421
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    HellSquirrel wrote: »
    ...Yeah.

    So. Mixed reactions to the whole Carrier thing from people around him. People were definitely paying attention and he may have opened himself up to companies "moving" to negotiate tax deals. It's been made pretty clear what sort of terms can be made.

    Not that 1000 jobs saved isn't a good thing, it is. But this is a rather..flashy and one-off way of doing it. He needs a policy that will improve things rather than meeting one on one with every large company. The policy would be a hell of a lot harder to develop though.

    Edit: my post wasn't in response to yours, oik, we posted at the same time

    Look at where these jobs are going... Mexico

    Then remember he wants to renegotiate NAFTA.

    He's not in office. This is all he can do to fulfil a very specific promise he made to the people in carrier.

    I decided to do a quick check to see how much the deal saves the tax payer.

    900 a month is what a family of 4 typically gets from welfare. I'll assume the workers kept on will be the more senior ones with families.

    900 x 800 workers x12 Months x 10 years = €86.4 million

    Assuming they're all single

    200 x 800 x 12 x 10 = 19.2 million

    Either way it's a good deal

    Also worth noting that these type of deals are nothing new. As is always the case whenever something gets this much attention people think it's the first time ever when really it's commonplace.


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  • #5422
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    oik wrote: »
    900 a month is what a family of 4 typically gets from welfare. I'll assume the workers kept on will be the more senior ones with families.

    What "welfare" are you talking about exactly?

    :confused:


  • #5423
    Palmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 350 ✭✭Palmy


    Yup Ireland has the Corporate tax rate for multi national companies. Why do you think they are in Ireland? They are paying low tax rates to keep these companies here. When I had my own company in Ireland I was getting shafted and when and if any money was left over I was paying 48% capital gains tax if I wanted to take it out of the business.


  • #5424
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    What "welfare" are you talking about exactly?

    :confused:

    Why do you ask?


  • #5425
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    oik wrote: »
    Why do you ask?

    Because you wrote that "900 a month is what a family of 4 typically gets from welfare."

    Unemployed people get 18 months of unemployment insurance payments assuming they've paid into it.

    Thats all. After that you're on your own. After that you might get food stamps in some states. Possibly disability payments?

    But I'm curious about these $900 payments, what state is that in?


  • #5426
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Because you wrote that "900 a month is what a family of 4 typically gets from welfare."

    Unemployed people get 18 months of unemployment insurance payments assuming they've paid into it.

    Thats all. After that you're on your own. After that you might get food stamps in some states. Possibly disability payments?

    But I'm curious about these $900 payments, what state is that in?

    Oh you're curious are you? Planning on going on the scratcher yourself?


  • #5427
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    https://youtube.com/watch?v=VsoVYStL6gQ

    These supposed antiracists who no doubt live in a building with no black people are such nice people.


  • #5428
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    oik wrote: »
    Oh you're curious are you? Planning on going on the scratcher yourself?

    :confused:

    huh?

    Just to be clear. There's no "dole" in the USA. Just as there is no free healthcare.


  • #5429
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Palmy wrote: »
    Yeah lets just let their jobs go so we can pay for unemployment for gods knows how long then. How much is that going to cost  us the tax payers and the government?, a lot more than 7 Mil me thinks.
    Fact is Trump said he would bring the jobs home. He just lost 1,300+ jobs and paid over $7mn to do at the same time. The incompetence is remarkable, and we haven't even got started yet! Then there's the 350 jobs literally less than a mile down the road at Rexnord-Corp Corp moving to Mexico too. I'm just holding the man to the standards he laid out, that's all.


  • #5430
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    osarusan wrote: »
    Trump became the first President/President Elect to speak with the leader of Taiwan since the severing of relations in 1979.

    Interesting times ahead for the US relationship with China.
    Don't worry I'm sure there's plenty of Chinese business people that are going to be very a influential part of Trumps presidency.



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  • #5431
    Palmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 350 ✭✭Palmy


    I don't know how they do it but like every where else there is a way to dodge the system. I have known people who have got some form of unemployment be fit for up to three years in Florida. I don't know if that is changing from unemployment to disability though but there is always away. And I know of people working full time jobs getting section 8 housing and $600 month in food stamps as well. This certain person used to show me her tax return refund and it was somewhere between $9000-$10,000 a year. When they had to show social services pay slips they would only work 32 hours for a few weeks as anything up to 32 hours is considered part time. Oh and this was a person driving a brand new 2016 car.


This discussion has been closed.
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