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Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

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Comments

  • #2972
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Eh, Germany? No country in world history has declined as much/lost as much as Britain has in the past century. Yet you still refuse to come to terms with it.

    Yes Germany has declined. The UK has lost it's empire but the position of the UK relative to the rest of Europe hasn't declined.


  • #2973
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I think presenting your passports once you reach the British mainland would eb the sensible thing to do.

    ? When I was growing up it was called Britain. And no part of Ireland was part of Britain. Or as Gerry Adams put it to some anglocentric journalist, 'Hold on a second. What do you mean when you say "the mainland"? I am an Irishman and Ireland is my mainland.'


  • #2974
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    NI isn't in the EU and likely won't be in the single market.

    Yes, but we are, that's the point.


  • #2975
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,507 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Just saw the new immigration numbers. All I could do is laugh, it just makes me delighted I voted leave. That is the real reason Leave won. The British people are sick of it.

    I'm sick of a lot of things but I am not gonna advocate tanking my economy to try to cure it.
    Why? Because tanking the economy will make me sick of a lot more things.


  • #2976
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Even if we didn't restrict the flow of people the EU would require us to control the flow of goods into their single market.

    So either we leave the common market or we check lorries.

    You said you were interested in studying maths before. Can you explain the economic reasons for Ireland, a country still in the EU to make such drastic changes? What would be the economic benefits?


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  • #2977
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes, but we are, that's the point.

    Yes we are. So?


  • #2978
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Just saw the new immigration numbers. All I could do is laugh, it just makes me delighted I voted leave. That is the real reason Leave won. The British people are sick of it.

    I'm sick of a lot of things but I am not gonna advocate tanking my economy to try to cure it.
    Why? Because tanking the economy will make me sick of a lot more things.
    The numbers are ridiculous. I knew it was high but even I was shocked to that number.


  • #2979
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes Germany has declined.

    Eh, no it hasn't. If you genuinely believe that you must have missed a couple of world wars and especially 1920s Germany. Or who owns most of Europe's (including Britain's) car manufacturers today or, well, the entire economic history of Europe since 1945.


  • #2980
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Eh, no it hasn't. If you genuinely believe that you must have missed a couple of world wars and especially 1920s Germany. Or who owns most of Europe's (including Britain's) car manufacturers today or, well, the entire economic history of Europe since 1945.

    Eh yes it has compared to pre WW1. All European countries have declined. My point is that the UK's position in Europe today, the second most powerful after Germany hasn't declined relative to the rest of Europe.


  • #2981
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    They only time they did 100% monitoring (and that is what they will have to do to stop illegal immigration) was during the F&M crisis in 2001 and we all know how stringent and expensive that was.

    Ah yes. The free wheel washing service with the 5-hour queue. I remember it well.

    MrP


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  • #2982
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I think it's time to flag a cab to real street. Brexit has changed and if NI doesn't want a hard border then it will have to move with reality for a change.
    No. Don't say fleg... Too late.

    MrP


  • #2983
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,507 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We can't pay for a border, we will be too busy paying for Welsh roads. The lunatics have taken over the asylum! :)



  • #2984
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    The numbers are ridiculous. I knew it was high but even I was shocked to that number.

    Could you actually explain why those numbers are actually a problem? I am not saying they aren't, but i would really like to understand exactly why you think they are.

    MrP


  • #2985
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    The numbers are ridiculous. I knew it was high but even I was shocked to that number.

    Ah yes the old let's assume people won't actually look up the numbers and just assume they are horrific.

    The first link I found had 327,000 net migration to the UK. It is a large country so that hardly sounds bad.

    https://www.google.ie/search?client=ms-android-h3g-ie&ei=hSNAWOCxFObSgAaKlbmwDQ&q=current+immigration+numbers+uk&oq=current+immigration+numbers+uk&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...4188.5957.0.6262.6.5.1.0.0.0.253.814.0j2j2.4.0....0...1c.1j4.64.mobile-gws-serp..1.4.690...0i22i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.-2Qh9Y3ZHoQ

    Helpful hint. Links can help people refer to facts that you are referring to. Makes it easier for those just flicking through to see the facts and figures behind a post as otherwise only those who mindlessly agree with a particular point of view will agree with you.


  • #2986
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Just saw the new immigration numbers. All I could do is laugh, it just makes me delighted I voted leave. That is the real reason Leave won. The British people are sick of it.

    And do you naively believe that voting for Brexit will cure this immigration problem? The OBR predicts in the case of hard brexit net migration will still be around 200,000, possibly higher, come 2021.

    Of course with David Davis now suggesting paying into the single market, perhaps there wont be much of reduction at all.

    Not to mention of course most immigrants are actually non-eu.


  • #2987
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    My point is that the UK's position in Europe today, the second most powerful after Germany hasn't declined relative to the rest of Europe.

    Of course not. And black is white. In the meantime have a look at your map of the all-conquering British Empire in 1920, then Europe's largest power by far. Then look for another EU state which has lost as much in the past 20 years. It doesn't exist so stop your trademark silliness of arguing that black is white.


  • #2988
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Christy42 wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    The numbers are ridiculous. I knew it was high but even I was shocked to that number.

    Ah yes the old let's assume people won't actually look up the numbers and just assume they are horrific.

    The first link I found had 327,000 net migration to the UK.  It is a large country so that hardly sounds bad.

    https://www.google.ie/search?client=ms-android-h3g-ie&ei=hSNAWOCxFObSgAaKlbmwDQ&q=current+immigration+numbers+uk&oq=current+immigration+numbers+uk&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...4188.5957.0.6262.6.5.1.0.0.0.253.814.0j2j2.4.0....0...1c.1j4.64.mobile-gws-serp..1.4.690...0i22i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.-2Qh9Y3ZHoQ

    Helpful hint. Links can help people refer to facts that you are referring to. Makes it easier for those just flicking through to see the facts and figures behind a post as otherwise only those who mindlessly agree with a particular point of view will agree with you.
    300k is a complete joke, hopefully once we get out we can put a stop to it. 

    [font=Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Immigration to the UK has also risen to a record level with 650,000 migrants in the year to June.[/font]


  • #2989
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Just saw the new immigration numbers. All I could do is laugh, it just makes me delighted I voted leave. That is the real reason Leave won. The British people are sick of it.

    Surely more immigrants could only benefit the unionist gene pool? Or to put it another way: have you ever seen a good-looking DUP politician? Far too much in-breeding. You need more female DUP politicians of Pakistani and Hindu origin. Maybe in a couple of generations you could even allow a Polish Catholic in.


  • #2990
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    ThomasFlynn wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Just saw the new immigration numbers. All I could do is laugh, it just makes me delighted I voted leave. That is the real reason Leave won. The British people are sick of it.

    And do you naively believe that voting for Brexit will cure this immigration problem?  The OBR predicts in the case of hard brexit net migration will still be around 200,000, possibly higher, come 2021.

    Of course with David Davis now suggesting paying into the single market, perhaps there wont be much of reduction at all.

    Not to mention of course most immigrants are actually non-eu.
    The UK is leaving the single market, which is fundamental to freedom of movement. Get out of it and control the numbers and put in sensible policies. I for one don't agree with unlimited immigration, perhaps some people do but most Brexit voters don't.


  • #2991
    sKeith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,404 ✭✭✭✭sKeith


    If they abandoned Fermanagh, and Tynone, and even possibly armagh, then a land border would be much easier to operate.

    [img][/img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Northern_Ireland_-_Counties.png/375px-Northern_Ireland_-_Counties.png


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  • #2992
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    sKeith wrote: »
    If they abandoned Fermanagh, and Tynone, and even possibly armagh, then a land border would be much easier to operate.

    [img][/img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Northern_Ireland_-_Counties.png/375px-Northern_Ireland_-_Counties.png

    They (the British) would love to abandon the lot but unionists would kick off.


  • #2993
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,507 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    The UK is leaving the single market, which is fundamental to freedom of movement. Get out of it and control the numbers and put in sensible policies. I for one don't agree with unlimited immigration, perhaps some people do but most Brexit voters don't.

    You still haven't explained how tanking your economy is going to solve the problem in any appreciable way, unless of course impoverishing everybody is some sort of sadistic solution.

    And don't try and say that you know the economy won't tank, nobody knows the answer to that and didn't before the vote.


  • #2994
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    The simplest, most efficient, way of controlling immigration is to police it at British air and sea ports. There's not a hope in hell that they could prevent people moving across the non-existent border.

    They couldn't prevent car bombs, the PIRA, huge volumes of diesel, big ol TV's, smuggled farm animals, and so on, crossing the border when it was one of the most militarized in Europe.

    In fact it would become an attractive route for immigrants and refugees to get to UK jurisdiction - if they knew that the British were policing entry points to the island of Britain they probably wouldn't bother.


  • #2995
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Of course not. And black is white. In the meantime have a look at your map of the all-conquering British Empire in 1920, then Europe's largest power by far. .

    was it? I guess India made it look big, the way the Soviet Union always looked huge on a map, but i would have thought the French empire (A lot of which they still haven't relinquished) would have been as big. France was probably a wealthier country as well.


  • #2996
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Of course not. And black is white. In the meantime have a look at your map of the all-conquering British Empire in 1920, then Europe's largest power by far. Then look for another EU state which has lost as much in the past 20 years. It doesn't exist so stop your trademark silliness of arguing that black is white.

    Sure but that's just the Empire. The UK itself hasn't lost its relative standing in Europe.


  • #2997
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    300k is a complete joke, hopefully once we get out we can put a stop to it. 

    it depends on what they are doing. Are they working or trying to live off the state.

    In isolation its a pretty useless figure anyway. What are the emigration figures like? Net migration is of more use. You also need to look at the birth rate it's currently below 2 which means that the population is not self-sustaining.

    With more and more pensioners living longer and longer the UK workforce needs a constant flow of new blood.


  • #2998
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    was it? I guess India made it look big, the way the Soviet Union always looked huge on a map, but i would have thought the French empire (A lot of which they still haven't relinquished) would have been as big. France was probably a wealthier country as well.

    Every empire looked big when it had an empire. Why is this being talked about?


  • #2999
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    300k is a complete joke, hopefully once we get out we can put a stop to it. 

    What is wrong 300k? I am going with net migration figures BTW. Surely they have more of an effect that migration alone.


    You are a country with millions of people so it is a drop in the ocean.

    Plus it isn't like it will drop once you are out of the union. You already had control to limit non EU migrants.


  • #3000
    demfad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    David Davis has conceded that the UK might consider paying for access to the single market. That would mean being under ECJ rules in many areas and ofcourse free movement of people.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/01/brexit-secretary-suggests-uk-would-consider-paying-for-single-market-access

    So 4 ambassadors said yesterday Boris told them privately he favoured free movement/single market.....May said it to a Golman Sachs group pre referendum....Now Davis..... anyone seen Liam Fox?


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  • #3001
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    greendom wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    300k is a complete joke, hopefully once we get out we can put a stop to it. 

    it depends on what they are doing.  Are they working or trying to live off the state.

    In isolation its a pretty useless figure anyway.  What are the emigration figures like?  Net migration is of more use.  You also need to look at the birth rate it's currently below 2 which means that the population is not self-sustaining.

    With more and more pensioners living longer and longer the UK workforce needs a constant flow of new blood.
    Plenty of people in the country who either aren't working or don't want to work and living on benefits. I also think these figures are probably a low estimate, people in England would say it is double that just by looking around you.


This discussion has been closed.
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