Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 01:05AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Reality Eddy, that's all.

I care not if NI stays in the UK or not (other than living and raising a family in Ireland makes me think the fragile Irish economy just couldn't handle it).

Truth is though, the people of the North have he best of both worlds at the moment and the longer it goes on like this, the more distant a united Ireland becomes.

I think Brexit will help move it along nicely.

FrancieBrady · 28-11-2016 01:05AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Irish person? I might live in Eire, but I'm not Irish.

A British person who isn't a unionist but who has been defending British imperialist throwbacks on here since I joined. Hmmmmm say more there Fred.

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 01:13AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A British person who isn't a unionist but who has been defending British imperialist throwbacks on here since I joined. Hmmmmm say more there Fred.

I have literally never heard anyone defend the British empire like Fred has here. Most are embarrassed about it.

Sand · 28-11-2016 01:18AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have literally never heard anyone defend the British empire like Fred has here. Most are embarrassed about it.

My experience is that British people are rarely aware of their history to any deep extent, and to the extent they are aware of the British Empire their attitudes range from indifference to pride. Christ most of them don't know anything about contemporary Northern Ireland. Let alone various injustices done thousands of miles away a hundred years ago.

Iwasfrozen · 28-11-2016 01:25AM

Sand wrote: »

My experience is that British people are rarely aware of their history to any deep extent, and to the extent they are aware of the British Empire their attitudes range from indifference to pride. Christ most of them don't know anything about contemporary Northern Ireland. Let alone various injustices done thousands of miles away a hundred years ago.

Every nation in the history of ever has carried out injustices at some point in history.

Re the British a small island on the edge of Europe became the largest empire the world had ever seen, able to deploy and support armies globally, that's a pretty huge achievement and British language, culture and technology had massive impact on our world system.

Did the British commit atrocities? OF COURSE but they're no better or worse in that regard than any other European power.

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 01:25AM

Sand wrote: »

My experience is that British people are rarely aware of their history to any deep extent, and to the extent they are aware of the British Empire their attitudes range from indifference to pride. Christ most of them don't know anything about contemporary Northern Ireland. Let alone various injustices done thousands of miles away a hundred years ago.

Yes I'd agree with that most of the time, but I work with academics. They seem quite aware of it.

FrancieBrady · 28-11-2016 01:32AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Every nation in the history of ever has carried out injustices at some point in history.

Re the British a small island on the edge of Europe became the largest empire the world had ever seen, able to deploy and support armies globally, that's a pretty huge achievement and British language, culture and technology had massive impact on our world system.

Did the British commit atrocities? OF COURSE but they're no better or worse in that regard than any other European power.

They were doing it very recently to my people and my family. Forgive me for not accepting your simpering excuses for them.

Iwasfrozen · 28-11-2016 01:34AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They were doing it very recently to my people and my family. Forgive me for not accepting your simpering excuses for them.

*citation needed*

FrancieBrady · 28-11-2016 01:49AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

*citation needed*

You need names to convince you British rule was negative thing for some?
Your ignorance of the reality never ceases to amaze.

Fratton Fred · 28-11-2016 08:42AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have literally never heard anyone defend the British empire like Fred has here. Most are embarrassed about it.

Oh Eddy, resorting to attacking the poster because the truth hurts?

Christy42 · 28-11-2016 09:16AM

If France do end up leaving the union which is a possibility I think and hope is remote then the UK could be in even more trouble.

They are attempting to get a good deal from the EU right now which will be a bit tricky without an EU. I mean every other country will be in trouble then as they each try to grab what they can but the point remains that the UK's best chance in Bremit is for the eu to exist.

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 10:43AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oh Eddy, resorting to attacking the poster because the truth hurts?

I wasn't attacking you or your posts. I'm just saying I haven't heard them outside a staunch unionist context.

MrPudding · 28-11-2016 01:35PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I've been through this (a lot) with Francie. It's a waste of time as his mind wasn't open to change and no disrespect but I have no intention of rehashing everything out again.

Needless to say the terms the UK laid down re NI where no different to the terms laid down for Scotland and Gibraltar. No independent unless the majority of people want independence.I find that to be a logical acceptable position.

So would it be fair to say that you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim that the British government lied in an international treaty it negotiated and signed? I understand you don't want to re-hash everything again, so I am trying to be helpful, as simple yes or no is all that is required. In fact, I will make it even easier. If you have any evidence present it, if you don't simply say nothing and that will confirm what we all know, that you have no evidence and you are just making stuff up.

MrP

catbear · 28-11-2016 02:01PM

The problem now for unionists is that they have to argue their position whereas in the past, when then had british forces as their backstop, they could discriminate and suppress as they pleased.

Billy86 · 28-11-2016 02:45PM

Got word today that a huge company based in the UK, listed in both the UK Top 40 & Fortune 500 lists, are moving their headquarters and a lot of positions to Ireland very soon.

Christy42 · 28-11-2016 02:52PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Got word today that a huge company based in the UK, listed in both the UK Top 40 & Fortune 500 lists, are moving their headquarters and a lot of positions to Ireland very soon.

Link? You know I am generally on your side politically but I would rather not end up reporting news until it has been reported officially.

You might get accused of being wikileaks if you say the next news release will have the big news:p.

Just to say I don't doubt you as it is what I expect to happen after the UK in effect voted for a recession but don't like spreading stuff without back up that I can pass on (not whatever insider info your job gives you access to).

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 02:54PM

Well my colleagues in the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said that the EMA will have to leave the UK after Brexit because it's a EU agency.

FrancieBrady · 28-11-2016 02:58PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well my colleagues in the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said that the EMA will have to leave the UK after Brexit because it's a EU agency.

The problem for the UK is how do you stem the flow if a number of the big guys go.

Billy86 · 28-11-2016 02:59PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Link? You know I am generally on your side politically but I would rather not end up reporting news until it has been reported officially.

You might get accused of being wikileaks if you say the next news release will have the big news:p.

Just to say I don't doubt you as it is what I expect to happen after the UK in effect voted for a recession but don't like spreading stuff without back up that I can pass on (not whatever insider info your job gives you access to).

I'll have to be unreliable and call wait-and-see!

A recruitment company called me about putting me forward in assisting it, which I think I might go for. But I think they're looking to make the placement ASAP so my guess is it'll be announced not long after Christmas. I guess take it with a grain of salt because I have to pull an Assange and say I can't disclose anything, but let's just say it's a big 'un.

FrancieBrady · 28-11-2016 03:03PM

Billy86 wrote: »

I'll have to be unreliable and call wait-and-see!

A recruitment company called me about putting me forward in assisting it, which I think I might go for. But I think they're looking to make the placement ASAP so my guess is it'll be announced not long after Christmas. I guess take it with a grain of salt because I have to pull an Assange and say I can't disclose anything, but let's just say it's a big 'un.

Banking/financial services?

Fratton Fred · 28-11-2016 03:08PM

Sand wrote: »

My experience is that British people are rarely aware of their history to any deep extent, and to the extent they are aware of the British Empire their attitudes range from indifference to pride. Christ most of them don't know anything about contemporary Northern Ireland. Let alone various injustices done thousands of miles away a hundred years ago.

whereas in ireland, British injustices through out the world are well known. I wonder why that is.

it works a treat for politicians here doesn't it. A quick shout of "Look over there" has every one gazing over at the British, whilst they add a few extra quid to their pay and pensions.

it always strikes me as odd the way that most countries scrutinise their politicians, but in Ireland people are more worried about what is going on in England.

Billy86 · 28-11-2016 03:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Banking/financial services?

Ballparkish sorta kinda maybe. Primarily office based jobs. Think I better leave it at that though, for now.

FrancieBrady · 28-11-2016 03:13PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

whereas in ireland, British injustices through out the world are well known. I wonder why that is.

it works a treat for politicians here doesn't it. A quick shout of "Look over there" has every one gazing over at the British, whilst they add a few extra quid to their pay and pensions.

it always strikes me as odd the way that most countries scrutinise their politicians, but in Ireland people are more worried about what is going on in England.

:D:D is that really the best you could counter with Fred?
Was it a hard weekend?

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 03:17PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

whereas in ireland, British injustices through out the world are well known. I wonder why that is.

it works a treat for politicians here doesn't it. A quick shout of "Look over there" has every one gazing over at the British, whilst they add a few extra quid to their pay and pensions.

it always strikes me as odd the way that most countries scrutinise their politicians, but in Ireland people are more worried about what is going on in England.

BS Fred. No one here is more critical over the past in Ireland than me. For example the Catholic church, corruption in government ect. You can't find it in you to condemn colonialist acts like partition of Ireland and India, and the famines in both countries.

It's also not just the Irish as you put it that talk about colonialism in a negative light. I's the Kenyans, India and many unaffected spectators. Talking about colonial crimes isn't exclusive to the Irish.

Fratton Fred · 28-11-2016 03:25PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Talking about colonial crimes isn't exclusive to the Irish.

No, but it isn't an obsession in either of those countries.

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 03:26PM

I voted remain and I'm passionate about it but I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the legal challenges going on. Just get on with it and remove the uncertainty for a lot of people and businesses.

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 03:30PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, but it isn't an obsession in either of those countries.

Obsession? You must be joking Fred. It's hard no tto be obsessed when our Island is still suffering the effects of colonialism. India and Kenya owe a lot of their current problems to colonialism and are quite aware of that. From the Independent.

A prominent Indian politician has said prime minister Theresa May should “bend her knees and beg forgiveness” for the “sins” committed by the British empire in India during 90 years of colonial rule.

Shashi Tharoor, an Indian MP and former minister of state, said he believes Britain did irreparable damage to his country between 1858 and 1947, and should particularly apologise for the infamous Jallianwala Bagh massacre of hundreds of non-violent protesters by British soldiers in 1919.

With the centenary of the massacre three years away, Mr Tharoor said it was time for the British prime minister to offer a full and satisfactory apology for “the wrongs done by their forebears”.

Mr Tharoor recently published a book entitled ‘An Era of Darkness: The British Empire In India’, detailing the full effects of British rule, and claiming Britain should pay up to $3 trillion dollars in reparations to India at today’s financial rates.

Fratton Fred · 28-11-2016 03:46PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's hard no tto be obsessed when our Island is still suffering the effects of colonialism.

yep, that and turning itself into an isolated theocracy for years, with pleny of added gombeenism, greed and corruption.

quick, look over there ==>

steddyeddy wrote: »

India and Kenya owe a lot of their current problems to colonialism and are quite aware of that. From the Independent.

Is this when you blame the British for creating the caste system again

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 03:52PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yep, that and turning itself into an isolated theocracy for years, with pleny of added gombeenism, greed and corruption.

quick, look over there ==>

I don't understand how that's related to colonialism? I'm talking about partition, the troubles, state funded terrorism and the famine. Nice straw man though.

Is this when you blame the British for creating the caste system again

I'll post this again Fred since you completely blanked it.

I posted a segment about how colonialism affected India as you say it's an Irish phenomenon. You ignore every bit of the article and focus on the caste system, which wasn't mentioned. I cannot believe you believe half the apologist propaganda you write. If you did you could actually respond to specific comments and view points without one or two word answers and/or strawmen.

A prominent Indian politician has said prime minister Theresa May should “bend her knees and beg forgiveness” for the “sins” committed by the British empire in India during 90 years of colonial rule.

Shashi Tharoor, an Indian MP and former minister of state, said he believes Britain did irreparable damage to his country between 1858 and 1947, and should particularly apologise for the infamous Jallianwala Bagh massacre of hundreds of non-violent protesters by British soldiers in 1919.

With the centenary of the massacre three years away, Mr Tharoor said it was time for the British prime minister to offer a full and satisfactory apology for “the wrongs done by their forebears”.

Mr Tharoor recently published a book entitled ‘An Era of Darkness: The British Empire In India’, detailing the full effects of British rule, and claiming Britain should pay up to $3 trillion dollars in reparations to India at today’s financial rates.

steddyeddy · 28-11-2016 03:53PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yep, that and turning itself into an isolated theocracy for years, with pleny of added gombeenism, greed and corruption.

quick, look over there ==>

Is this when you blame the British for creating the caste system again

Just to be sure are you saying that there isn't an anti-colonial sentiment in India?

Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

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