So whats the bad aspects to Scandinavian living?

CalamariFritti · 26-11-2016 03:04PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Massive income tax to pay for all the social programmes.

My Dad has a great story of visiting Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland in the summer of 1975. On the final night of their tour he asked a Finnish chap in a bar in Helsinki do the Scandinavian people share any sort of common bond.

The man said yes, "We, Denmark and Norway all hate Sweden."

It's funny. What is it that makes us hate our neighbours? We're grand with chaps from half across the globe no bother, but don't talk to me about the guys we share a border with...

Its the same then on a smaller scale. I live in Waterford. Waterfordians seem to have no problem with most counties. Kilkenny? Ah now....

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 03:09PM

Dr Jakub wrote: »

This. I'd rather live in a run down ****ty place like Ireland that has a heart and soul to it than somewhere like PC, gender neutral Swedanistan.

Your choice. And your description tells me you never lived there so perhaps actually go there and see what it's like for yourself or at least talk to some Swedes before swallowing the American/British alt-right/conservative hate propaganda you read on the web. "Swedanistan" indeed...Jesus wept :rolleyes:

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 03:14PM

h2005 wrote: »

The alcoholism rate is higher in Sweden no?

Nope, higher here. http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/alcohol/prevalence_amp_rate_of_alcohol_consumption/alcohol_consumption_en

Kadser · 26-11-2016 03:17PM

Ferrari3600 wrote: »

From what I've been told, the political correctness is genuinely stifling in Norway and Sweden. Denmark, not so much. Finland is different altogether.

That's why they defeated the Russians in WW2.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 03:21PM

Fluffy Cat 88 wrote: »

Questions from someone who's never visited there: -

Does the darkness over the winter months really affect those living there (particularly northern Scandinavians)? I suffer from SAD myself and always imagined it must be horrible there in winter.

Yes that can be a real problem there. Light therapy lamps are popular. Another way they deal with it is to have lots of lights indoors (especially candles) and make their homes as cozy and warm as possible.

Fluffy Cat 88 wrote: »

Is Finland a heavy metal mecca? If that rumour is true I gotta go there some day!

Not my kind of music but I believe so! I read somewhere they have more death metal bands than any other country in the world

fits · 26-11-2016 03:22PM

Fluffy Cat 88 wrote: »

Questions from someone who's never visited there: -

Does the darkness over the winter months really affect those living there (particularly northern Scandinavians)? I suffer from SAD myself and always imagined it must be horrible there in winter.

Is Finland a heavy metal mecca? If that rumour is true I gotta go there some day!

I lived further north than many of the big cities. And yes the darkness can be bad. The benefits of being further north is that the snow comes earlier and stays longer. ( it can be more slushy falling and melting around helsinki, stockholm etc). Its much brighter when therew snow.But i was not a fan of the in between months like november at all.

And yes i think theres a lot of metal in finland. I stayed away from it as its not my thing. Their other obsession is karaoke !

thee glitz · 26-11-2016 03:26PM

iDave wrote: »

Type gender equal snow plows into google and you'll see how mad Sweden has become.

I did - pretty funny reading (apart from the injuries of course).

Previously, fresh snowfalls were cleared first from main roads and by areas like construction sites before being removed from pavements and cycle lanes.
As men are more likely to drive and women more likely to travel on foot, more women slipped on the ice which led to complaints that the system was sexist.

But chaos reportedly was the result for both genders, according to the tabloid Aftonbladet’s headline, “Feministisk snöröjning funkar inte i Stockholm,”
(“Feminist Snow Removal Flunks in Stockholm.”)

Buses (also, it turns out, heavily used by women) were stuck by the hundreds on roads blocked by stalled cars. Light rail trains moved at half speed,
forcing stranded commuters to walk for hours to get home from work, slipping and falling on glasslike sidewalks and bike paths. Others stayed
home with children as schools shut down.

Vice-mayor of Stockholm, the Green Party’s Daniel Helldén, admitted that “equality snow removal” had failed the city, and apologised to residents
who had injured themselves as a result.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 03:32PM

thee glitz wrote: »

I did - pretty funny reading (apart from the injuries of course).

All quotes from tabloid Aftonbladet? how about a more reputable newspaper like Dagens Nyheter?

Yamanoto · 26-11-2016 03:33PM

In the Swedes nonsense attempt to engineer a utopian society of absolute equals, personal freedoms are trumped by their fetish for crow-barring gender equality & human rights legislation into areas where common sense policy would yield better results. On the issue of sex work for instance, they're saying a person who freely chooses to provide sex for sale is essentially a slave. He or She may think they are exercising free will, but the State knows best...

"Those who defend prostitution argue that it is possible to differentiate between voluntary and non-voluntary prostitution, that adults should have the right to freely sell and freely purchase sex (...) However, based on a gender equality and human rights perspective, (...) the distinction between voluntary and nonvoluntary prostitution is not relevant."

Skarhed commission and report (Ban on purchase of sexual services: An evaluation 1999-2008) 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden

Discodog · 26-11-2016 03:41PM

A very good friend lives in Gothenburg & she is Swedish. She feels the need to protest against the Democracy Party which are basically Neo Nazis & are very strong in Sweden.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3349890/Sweden-Home-IKEA-meatballs-ABBA-racism-Swedish-right-wing-went-joke-big-political-player-just-seven-years.html

A few weeks ago she needed urgent medical treatment. She arrived at the hospital & had to wait 7 hours ! She finds it crazy that we think their health service is so good. She also assures me that the buses are often late or simply don't run at all.

She feels scared walking on the streets at night. She wants to live here.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 03:51PM

Yamanoto wrote: »

In the Swedes nonsense attempt to engineer a utopian society of absolute equals, personal freedoms are trumped by their fetish for crow-barring gender equality & human rights legislation into areas where common sense policy would yield better results. On the issue of sex work for instance, they're saying a person who freely chooses to provide sex for sale...

Quite how free a woman is who is forced into the situation of prostituting themselves for a living is questionable IMO. If she had any other choice do you think many would freely choose to work in such a degrading and dangerous profession? It is that stand point I believe which Swedish law takes-aiming to protect it's citizens from exploitation and human rights abuses. They have criminalised the pimps and those who buy sex, not the women (and some men perhaps too) who sell themselves.

I agree that should trump any "freedom" customers feel they should have to buy sex from these women (who are often trafficked into Sweden and who live in terrible circumstances), especially in a situation where women have to work on the streets.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 04:05PM

Discodog wrote: »

A very good friend lives in Gothenburg & she is Swedish. She feels the need to protest against the Democracy Party which are basically Neo Nazis & are very strong in Sweden.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3349890/Sweden-Home-IKEA-meatballs-ABBA-racism-Swedish-right-wing-went-joke-big-political-player-just-seven-years.html

Daily Fail link?, ah no ta.

Discodog wrote: »

A few weeks ago she needed urgent medical treatment. She arrived at the hospital & had to wait 7 hours ! She finds it crazy that we think their health service is so good. She also assures me that the buses are often late or simply don't run at all.

She feels scared walking on the streets at night. She wants to live here.

Never had to wait that long in a hospital there but perhaps things have changed since I left in the health system. Wait til she has to wait 24 hours on a trolley if she comes here tell her. That may make her think twice.

I usually went by tram and it was invariably on time and never had a problem with punctuality of buses or them just not turning up tbh. Depends what she considers "late". And scared at night... what part of the city does she live in? I always felt very safe there.

The tabloids are good at whipping up fear, especially of migrants and I would like to know if that fear is based on increased recorded crime rates of threats or assaults in the past few years in the city, or if it's just because the 'fear of crime' has risen whipped up by media hysteria, much of it from outside the country.

Ralf and Florian · 26-11-2016 04:14PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Nordic is not interchangeable with Scandinavian. I meant Scandinavian but was in hurry typing. God ya have little to complain about :rolleyes:

It means pretty much the same thing.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nordic

Yamanoto · 26-11-2016 04:16PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Quite how free a woman is who is forced into the situation of prostituting themselves for a living is questionable IMO. If she had any other choice do you think many would freely choose to work in such a degrading and dangerous profession? It is that stand point I believe which Swedish law takes-aiming to protect it's citizens from exploitation and human rights abuses. They have criminalised the pimps and those who buy sex, not the women (and some men perhaps too) who sell themselves.

I agree that should trump any "freedom" customers feel they should have to buy sex from these women (who are often trafficked into Sweden and who live in terrible circumstances), especially in a situation where women have to work on the streets.

The 'Swedish model' has been a failure in practise & has incontrovertibly added to the risks associated with sex for sale, but hey, the optics look good & the middle-class / college educated women who formulated the policy get to travel the international lecture circuit & accept pats on the back from the choir they're preaching to (guess who that audience consists of). It's instructive how proponents of such a policy (including those in Ireland) are never too keen to actually listen to or take on board the submissions of sex workers themselves.

fits · 26-11-2016 04:18PM

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

It means pretty much the same thing.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nordic

It actually doesnt. Finland is not in scandinavia.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 04:20PM

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

It means pretty much the same thing.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nordic

Not quite. The Nordic countries include Finland and Island and some islands. Scandinavia is just Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

Stigura · 26-11-2016 04:26PM

Winterlong wrote: »

And then there is their liking for snus. WTF is going on with that?

F**king Brilliant, that stuff is! Could bring down governments. That's why they slipped a sly ban on it in. Tobacco and pharmo companies were terrified it'd get out, over this way :cool:

But, sorry; That's a topic for another thread entirely. Just can't help expressing my massive soft spot for Snuss

thee glitz · 26-11-2016 04:30PM

Greentopia wrote: »

All quotes from tabloid Aftonbladet? how about a more reputable newspaper like Dagens Nyheter?

There was a bit from Breitbart too.

http://www.dn.se/sthlm/trafikborgarradet-snorojningen-har-inte-fungerat/

nice_guy80 · 26-11-2016 04:33PM

Swedes are very impersonal.

Everything is about the individual, as the state practically takes care of you for life. Much less family ties.

Lots of old people die in their apartments in Stockholm every year with nobody aware they are dead. Very sad

nice_guy80 · 26-11-2016 04:35PM

I do like their free Swedish classes for immigrants policy

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 04:38PM

Yamanoto wrote: »

The 'Swedish model' has been a failure in
practise...

Says who? source please.

Yamanoto wrote: »

& has incontrovertibly added to the risks associated with sex for sale, but hey, the optics look good & the middle-class / college educated women who formulated the policy get to travel the international lecture circuit & accept pats on the back from the choir they're preaching to (guess who that audience consists of). It's instructive how proponents of such a policy (including those in Ireland) are never too keen to actually listen to or take on board the submissions of sex workers themselves.

Oh, well you obviously know the people who formulated the policies then to know they were
a. all women and
b. all middle class

Would have no problem personally listening to the sex workers stories themselves.
I saw a Swedish made investigative documentary on it when I lived there and by all accounts the women who were working there were not exactly happy in their line of work. Many of them were non nationals from the Baltic states who were virtual sex slaves forced to sleep with dozens of men daily for little money-their pimp having taken most of it, and some were kept prisoner by the guys who trafficked them to Sweden and their passports taken off them.

But hey, what does that matter huh? the freedom to buy women as you would any other commodity should be more important than any pesky human rights violations right?

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 04:44PM

thee glitz wrote: »

There was a bit from Breitbart too.

http://www.dn.se/sthlm/trafikborgarradet-snorojningen-har-inte-fungerat/

Breibart? you are joking right?

That URL tells me nothing more than what I already know-traffic chaos in Stockholm and a system that didn't work. No rabid headlines about feminism there, sorry.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 04:59PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Swedes are very impersonal.

Everything is about the individual, as the state practically takes care of you for life. Much less family ties.

Lots of old people die in their apartments in Stockholm every year with nobody aware they are dead. Very sad

That's been your experience of them having lived there yes? because it ain't mine. In fact it is not an individualistic country at all. Swedes are actually more concerned about the wellbeing of the group or collective.

Less extended family ties there generally yes (not being a Catholic country and having a system of older people usually moving to care homes instead of staying in their own home), but the immediate family is of course important to them as it is in every country.

Lots of old people die in their homes here too, that's why ALONE was founded by the late great Willie Bermingham. We have a big problem of rural isolation and loneliness of old people and yet we're supposed to be the ones big on extended family ties?!

Swedish people are extremely independent and self contained by nature and have the highest number of single occupancy dwellings in Europe. That would account for some tragic stories that hit the newspapers there of people found dead alone in their apartments. Still very sad of course though.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 05:01PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I do like their free Swedish classes for immigrants policy

It extends to Irish people who move there too and want to learn the language. I really enjoyed the classes.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 05:03PM

Right guys, have stuff to do. Will answer if there are any other replies to me tonight or tomorrow.

thee glitz · 26-11-2016 05:05PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Breibart? you are joking right?

No, Breitbart came up top of a search. So I checked another page too.

That URL tells me nothing more than what I already know-traffic chaos in Stockholm and a system that didn't work. No rabid headlines about feminism there, sorry.

I wouldn't expect rabid headlines about feminism from that outlet.
What it also says is

Stockholm Vice Mayor Daniel Helldén (MP) admits bluntly that the equality snow removal has not worked.

- Walkways and bike paths has not been cleared to the extent that it is supposed to priority order, said Daniel Helldén.

In the hospitals, the continued pressure on the orthopedic departments after the snowfall. During a normal week in November, orthopedic emergency room at Danderyd Hospital around 50 applicants per day. On 9 November, 108 people sought treatment at the orthopedist. Also on St. George's Hospital has been taking care of large amounts of slip related accidents, on Wednesday received 83 cases and 93 cases on Thursday. The hospital says that even today, Friday, continue to come in many injured people.

- I regret very much those injured. The idea is that it easier to get around by walking in this type of snowfall. It is not good that we have not succeeded. We have allocated more money in the budget we should take in the next week, said Daniel Helldén.

He can not, however, spell out the problems of the past few days clearing snow.

- I have requested an emergency report to find out what has happened to these days. Has it failed somewhere and we'll correct it. With this report we hope to be able to do it better next time.

Where is the responsibility?

- For final analysis, is responsible for snow removal on me. It is my duty to ensure that the office does what we say in our directives. It is my responsibility to ensure that this dissolves.

Are you self-critical?
- Yes, we can surely say.

What do you say to those who are disappointed with the snow removal?

- I regret that Stockholmers have been affected and that they have had problems to move in town and get to work and school. I will do my utmost so that we do not have to experience this kind of chaos again. Major snowstorms always means trouble. But it should not be like it was now.

Greentopia · 26-11-2016 05:15PM

thee glitz wrote: »

No, Breitbart came up top of a search. So I checked another page too.

I wouldn't expect rabid headlines about feminism from that outlet.
What it also says is

Can I have the original link to the article please? I can read Swedish.

currants · 26-11-2016 05:28PM

thee glitz wrote: »

I wouldn't expect rabid headlines about feminism from that outlet.
What it also says is

I would, its former chief exec left to take over President Pussygrabber's election campaign. Breitbart is to neutral, non-ideologically driven news stories as An Phoblacht is to neutral etc.

Don't the Nordic countries always come tops in suicide rates?

Dr Jakub · 26-11-2016 05:29PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Your choice. And your description tells me you never lived there so perhaps actually go there and see what it's like for yourself or at least talk to some Swedes before swallowing the American/British alt-right/conservative hate propaganda you read on the web. "Swedanistan" indeed...Jesus wept :rolleyes:

Yes I'll pass on the femicommie paradise of Sweden if you don't mind.

AnGaelach · 26-11-2016 05:31PM

Ferrari3600 wrote: »

From what I've been told, the political correctness is genuinely stifling in Norway and Sweden. Denmark, not so much. Finland is different altogether.

Finland isn't in Scandinavia. I know that because I once said it to a Finn and he had a conniption.

So whats the bad aspects to Scandinavian living?

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