Mike Pence Not Welcome in Sligo

Allinall wrote: »

Na.

Getting offended outweighs pragmatism.

How many gays have actually voiced their offence or are they too busy getting on with life to care?

Reads like the "offended on someone else's behalf" have taken control of this one unfortunately.

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I welcome that we decline him if wants to visit. Why should we accept some reactionary right wing nutjob. He is an embarrassment. He can come on his own accord, but nobody should make him feel welcome.

Should we make the Pope feel welcome?

I'd say Pence is reeling with shock.

Load of virtue signalling nonsense. Where were the perpetually outraged when we were lowering flags to half mast as a sign of respect for Saudi royals, you never see them when we're inviting Islamist extremists to this country to give speaches either, sure some people that advocate throwing gay people off rooftops are positively welcomed on to the stage by the kind of people you'd expect to be protesting them such as RBB.

Ultimately, who the hell in Sligo thought they were important enought to issuing invites to vice presidents? Have you not got a road to fix or something more important to be doing?

I wish Stephen Fry had never made that inane video about being offended.
I'm so sick of alt-right goons crowing about people being offended as though any instance of such were simply an individual's caprice, an arbitrary choice to decide not to like something, and therefore demand that it be hidden from view.

But why shouldn't we consider offence? Of course people like to provide extreme examples to demonstrate why taking offence is ludicrous: Oh, someone wants someone to lose their job because of a joke or a t-shirt they wore, it's ridiculous, no-one cares about your feelings!

But what about a case like this, where someone thinks that simply for the preferences you inherently have, you're less than human, and one of the most fundamental aspects of yourself should be forcibly done away with in order to make you match that person's vision of the world?
Do you really think we shouldn't consider how someone feels in that regard?
Of course we should, because that's how civilisation works. We don't just act completely on instinct: we consider how our actions might affect people around us, and act accordingly. We may even have imagination enough to consider how we would feel were we the object and not the subject of our actions.
That's why it's not ok to verbally abuse people without provocation: it can anger and upset, and people with a basic level of empathy consider those to be bad things, and try to avoid causing people such suffering if it can be avoided and is not considered necessary. That's how we all get along.
If someone came up to you in the street or at work and told you that you were less than human and needed to be converted into a "normal" human, no-one would expect you to simply shrug that off and not be offended.

In this case, an organisation representing an area has decided not to invite someone with views he's made public which are deeply offensive to a section of the community who've made their feelings known. They've decided not to give this person a platform to avoid unnecessary suffering to people they represent. Mike Pence's not being denied his freedom of speech: he's simply not being offered one of the myriad possible platforms he can be offered, because people have identified his hateful speech for what it is and don't want to hear it.

There's an argument to be made for allowing people to express regressive, hate-based opinions in an environment where they can be argued against, like university debates.
But no-one's required to respect or provide a platform for views they don't like. If you're on the wrong side of history and want hate speech to be provided public platforms, then you're out of luck because even despite what happened in America last week, the world is changing and you're being left behind. Just don't go complaining like a precious little snowflake because people don't agree with your views and aren't interested in hearing them.

How many clapping the decision would have no problem with a bit a holiday and a shopping trip to that beacon of democracy Dubai?

I think Juncker summed it perfectly similar sentiment in regards to trade deal with Canada:
I am extremely surprised that when we conclude a trade agreement with Vietnam, a world famous country for respecting all democratic principles, nobody objects, but when we strike an agreement with Canada, a full-fledged dictatorship, everybody gets excited and blames us for not respecting human rights and fundamental economic rights...

It's the same type of nonsense. Politics is working with people you don't agree with and finding some sort solution not just congratulatory back slapping of those you a gree with.

We give millions in aid every year to countries which lock up LGBT people, surely that's more of an out and out disgrace supporting these basket case regimes than inviting someone here that could be perhaps educated in their wrongs as part of a visit here.

FortySeven wrote: »

Just because a minority are offended we should dumb down the rest of the population by censoring who or what they can see or hear?

LGBT need to realise that if they want to demand freedom of expression them it is a two way street. They might not want to negotiate the traffic but that is what adults have to do.

I'm sick of minorities demanding **** under a guise of fear or offence.

Sligo should count itself lucky to have such a powerful visitor. It's hardly a bustling metropolis of any significance.

Gateway Town to the NW of Ireland, probably has more significance than the VP Elect, to a President Elect who will be no more than a pen pusher, a pawn, and someone to blame when it all goes tits up.

Not sure what bringing him to Sligo was going to achieve anyway, would have probably cost an already bankrupt or close to it CoCo a fortune, remember we were inviting him, so was at our cost. Amongst other things many road and town infrastructure improvements have been delayed due to costs, or money the CoCo does not have. Its possible that the objection to his LGBT and pro choice/life views, whilst valid, may be a cover up, with the cost being the true reason.

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Gateway Town to the NW of Ireland, probably has more significance than the VP Elect, to a President Elect who will be no more than a pen pusher, a pawn, and someone to blame when it all goes tits up.

Considering Calamity Trump is the president elect, Pence has a good chance of being more than a pen pusher. And no Sligo does not have more significance than VP, that's just silly talk now.

Second part of your post is probably making a valid point though.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

We give millions in aid every year to countries which lock up LGBT people, surely that's more of an out and out disgrace supporting these basket case regimes than inviting someone here that could be perhaps educated in their wrongs as part of a visit here.

meeeeh wrote: »

It's not just Dubai, you can have a pick of countries that we have no problem spending our money in and supporting all sorts of crazy regimes and then we are making a stand on some flavour of the month issue.

I don't think it needs to be as all or nothing as that though. Of course there's Realpolitik involved and we're going to trade with countries or individuals we don't agree with. But we can still disagree with them and try to effect some change.
This is particularly true in this case where you've got a specific case where you can say "We don't like this guy, let's not invite him."
And who's to say the people opposed to Pence's ludicrous beliefs aren't also interested in the greater complexities of global trade and ideology?

Looking at the wider picture, I think that we will look back on this in 3-4 years time and realize that Pence was the power behind the throne. He will be the puppet-master to Trump's puppet. He is a seasoned Washington insider.

Trump has never had a 9-5 job in his life. He has never been told by anyone what to do, and he is 70 years old. He is ripe for manipulation.

Trump (Pence), Putin, Farage, Le Pen etc...etc...

1933 all over again? It sure is looking that way. Pence's (bonkers) attitude to LGBT may turn out to be the least of our worries.

D.