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Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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Comments

  • #842
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    py2006 wrote: »
    These deluded feminists throwing the rape culture term around are dangerous and should be avoided. To me these are the kind of women that would accuse men of all sorts at the drop of a hat.

    By all means criticise them online but if you know one in your circle avoid like the plague.

    Vile, deluded and dangerous.

    That's funny, I've heard many men describe feminists like that too.

    Hmmm. Who's right?

    If I say fathers4justice are deluded idiots, does that make them deluded idiots, or does that make me...abusive?


  • #843
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,845 ✭✭✭py2006


    At the end of the day rape happens, it's awful and the numbers are far too high. One is too high.

    Using that as evidence of a 'culture' which aside from being used to demonise men is completely deluded, inappropriate, offensive and speak volumes about modern day feminism.

    Avoid.


  • #844
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    From the last study:

    The rate of convictions in 2013 for all of those charged with rape was just 19%, but the rate for those who actually contested the charges was less than 7%.

    Any thoughts on this?
    My thoughts are there were 35 rape convictions in 2014 and you are telling me it's commonplace.
    Is murder common in Ireland? We have more than 50 a year. Murder culture, yeah?


  • #845
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,310 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    From the last study:

    The rate of convictions in 2013 for all of those charged with rape was just 19%, but the rate for those who actually contested the charges was less than 7%.

    Any thoughts on this?

    Can you give a breakdown of those cases, what the evidence was, etc? We have a series of figures but zero on the cases themselves. Are you asking for automatic conviction here, or what?


  • #846
    The Specialist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    That's a dangerous and frankly frightening comment to make.

    No it's not, it's a cold truth. This generation is a patethic breed, offended by every slight, on a perpetual mission to be somehow the victim of every mean word or action the world throws at them. This generation has no balls (forgive the pun) and is mollycoddled in to believing they are so special that they should never be offended or afraid. **** generation snowflake, every last ****in one of them.


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  • #847
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,845 ✭✭✭py2006


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    That's funny, I've heard many men describe feminists like that too.

    Hmmm. Who's right?

    If I say fathers4justice are deluded idiots, does that make them deluded idiots, or does that make me...abusive?

    I just don't know what to say to that.

    Troll?


  • #848
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    My thoughts are there were 35 rape convictions in 2014 and you are telling me it's commonplace.
    Is murder common in Ireland? We have more than 50 a year. Murder culture, yeah?

    35 rape convictions out of 567 rape cases.


  • #849
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    That's a dangerous and frankly frightening comment to make.

    What is frightening is your lack of ability to critically analyze the evidence presented to you. You appear to be so entrenched in your position that the weight of evidence stacking up against your claims is blind to you in the red mist of your own argument.

    I'd just like to add that rape is not just a woman's issue. Let us not forget that quite a portion of those rape convictions will be for the statutory rape of boys.

    Never hear a whisper about that from the feminist side.


  • #850
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    35 rape convictions out of 567 rape cases.
    Yes, we get it. Case = guilty.
    Who needs that silly "conviction" bit. Silly old "innocent until proven guilty" malarkey.


  • #851
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    35 rape convictions out of 567 rape cases.


    You do realise that this figure you're giving most likely shows that many of those cases were, in fact, not rapes. Ched Evans case comes to mind. Just because someone accuses someone, doesn't make it so. That's a point to take on board before trying to dazzle people with cold hard numbers.


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  • #852
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    FortySeven wrote: »
    What is frightening is your lack of ability to critically analyze the evidence presented to you. You appear to be so entrenched in your position that the weight of evidence stacking up against your claims is blind to you in the red mist of your own argument.

    I'd just like to add that rape is not just a woman's issue. Let us not forget that quite a portion of those rape convictions will be for the statutory rape of boys.

    Never hear a whisper about that from the feminist side.

    It;s funny how everyone sees it about the other side, isn't it, and can't see it about themselves.:)


  • #853
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    35 rape convictions out of 567 rape cases.

    Rape is extremely difficult to prove. Most rape occurs within the context of a relationship, it's one person's word against another, people who you could reasonably expect will be sexually intimate....how do you prove that?


  • #854
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Omackeral wrote: »
    You do realise that this figure you're giving most likely shows that many of those cases were, in fact, not rapes. Ched Evans case comes to mind. Just because someone accuses someone, doesn't make it so. That's a point to take on board before trying to dazzle people with cold hard numbers.

    I put it out there along with the corresponding statistic, that studies have shown that Ireland has the lowest rate of rape convictions amongst all EU member states.

    There is something to be improved on there.


  • #855
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,845 ✭✭✭py2006


    I think we are wasting our time with the Louise supporter here. Possibly even a troll. Let's get back to OP?


  • #856
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,310 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I put it out there along with the corresponding statistic, that studies have shown that Ireland has the lowest rate of rape convictions amongst all EU member states.

    There is something to be improved on there.
    What do you suggest? Lowering the standard of proof?


  • #857
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FortySeven wrote: »
    What is frightening is your lack of ability to critically analyze the evidence presented to you. You appear to be so entrenched in your position that the weight of evidence stacking up against your claims is blind to you in the red mist of your own argument.

    I'd just like to add that rape is not just a woman's issue. Let us not forget that quite a portion of those rape convictions will be for the statutory rape of boys.

    Never hear a whisper about that from the feminist side.



    Oh no but you're forgetting this.

    mzungu wrote: »
    The definition of rape culture and what it entails is a society that "fosters and encourages rape by instructing citizens that it is normal and natural for sexual relations to involve aggressive behavior on the part of males." (Barnet, Sligar & Wang 2016)


  • #858
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I put it out there along with the corresponding statistic, that studies have shown that Ireland has the lowest rate of rape convictions amongst all EU member states.

    There is something to be improved on there.
    I've the feeling we're in for a long night.
    So, you're going to just pick any number you like really and tell me that's the rape incidence rate and that makes it commonplace? That's the gist of this, yeah?


  • #859
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    py2006 wrote: »
    I think we are wasting our time with the Louise supporter here. Possibly even a troll. Let's get back to OP?

    Silly little post.


  • #860
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    I've the feeling we're in for a long night.
    So, you're going to just pick any number you like really and tell me that's the rape incidence rate and that makes it commonplace? That's the gist of this, yeah?

    Did I pick that number? Sorry, I thought I quoted a study.


  • #861
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    mzungu wrote: »
    What do you suggest? Lowering the standard of proof?

    Increasing the standards of our country in this area.


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  • #862
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Did I pick that number? Sorry, I thought I quoted a study.
    No, you quoted us the number of court cases and then kinda trailed off when your were asked if you expect people to assume the are all automatically guilty.
    Which is where we still are.


  • #863
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    It;s funny how everyone sees it about the other side, isn't it, and can't see it about themselves.:)

    No. It is not surprising. Boys need help in todays society. Almost every indicator points to girls doing better in many, many areas. Most important to me would be education. I fear for the future for my son if your particular brand of feminism is allowed to foster within the western world.

    Mothers want the best for their sons. Feminisits (modern ones) appear to view their own offspring as a future, potential threat.

    It's ****ing scary.


  • #864
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,310 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Increasing the standards of our country in this area.

    Can you explain what you mean by "standards of our country", please?

    You said:
    Ireland has the lowest rate of rape convictions amongst all EU member states.

    There is something to be improved on there.
    I took this to mean you wished to have a larger conviction rate?


  • #865
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Increasing the standards of our country in this area.
    Hang on. Just to check here...

    Case = court case to determine guilt of a rape accusation.
    or
    Case = case of rape.

    You have some inkling of the difference, yeah?


  • #866
    The Specialist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    mzungu wrote: »
    Can you explain what you mean by "standards of our country", please?

    You said:

    I took this to mean you wished to have a larger conviction rate?

    She means women to be believed above all common sense or judicial procedures, if you're a white male and get falsely accused of rape, just deal with it and move on if you're subsequently found innocent. That's the feminist mindset.


  • #867
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I think what we need is more effective sentencing not necessarily more convictions.


  • #868
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Increasing the standards of our country in this area.

    You see. I completely agree with this comment. Perhaps stop spending your energy on these ridiculous debates on consent and 'rape culture' and get the **** out there and canvass your local TD. Protest. Join a political group or a charity. Try to resolve it.


  • #869
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I think what we need is more effective sentencing not necessarily more convictions.

    And in the case of rape and aggravated sexual assault/battery, an end to the madness of concurrent sentencing for offences.

    If there are three charges and a person is guilty of all three, make them serve three consecutive sentences.


  • #870
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,310 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I think what we need is more effective sentencing not necessarily more convictions.

    + 1. It needs proper long sentences and none of this getting out early due to good behaviour lark.


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  • #871
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    py2006 wrote: »
    I just don't know what to say to that.

    Troll?
    py2006 wrote: »
    I think we are wasting our time with the Louise supporter here. Possibly even a troll. Let's get back to OP?

    If you suspect someone is trolling, don't air it out on thread (against the charter), use the report post function please.


This discussion has been closed.
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