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The Garda Strike

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Comments

  • #332
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Regardless what the checkpoints are set up for they dont seem to exist anymore.

    They're out there every day of the week around here with maybe a lull for a couple of weeks now and then.


  • #333
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Hobby farmer wrote: »
    I have to laugh, checkpoints are not "for tax" if you drive up without tax yes they will have a word. What about the multitude of other offences/ crimes are detected at checkpoints? You can't hold the guards responsible for lack of manpower

    Hold on. What are they for?
    Tax insurance and nct, and tyres?
    Or something else altogether?
    I've driven up to many of them and they have only ever looked at the discs. I've heard of people being asked where they are from and where they are going and license checks too but that's to do with the learner driver rules rather than them looking out for someone in particular, otherwise they'd be going on a description.


  • #334
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Hold on. What are they for?
    Tax insurance and nct, and tyres?
    Or something else altogether?
    I've driven up to many of them and they have only ever looked at the discs. I've heard of people being asked where they are from and where they are going and license checks too but that's to do with the learner driver rules rather than them looking out for someone in particular, otherwise they'd be going on a description.

    If checkpoints were for tax insurance and nct then the number of vehicle seizures in the state would be gigantic. Checkpoints are primarily for finding drink drivers, looking for suspicious persons and disrupting routes used by criminals.


  • #335
    greenoverred
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    c_meth wrote: »
    Hmm, how about working for 40 yrs instead of 30yrs before being able to accrue full pension entitlements.

    The guards claim they are different to other public servants and should be treated differently. I guess being allowed to retire 10 yrs before other public servants isn't enough 'different' treatment for them...

    Guards are allowed retire 10 yrs before other public servants because they pay a higher pension premium.


  • #336
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    greenoverred wrote: »
    Guards are allowed retire 10 yrs before other public servants because they pay a higher pension premium.

    Can you please provide a link to backup your claim?


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  • #337
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Donal55


    greenoverred wrote: »
    Guards are allowed retire 10 yrs before other public servants because they pay a higher pension premium.

    Lol.


  • #338
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    As usual when it comes to public sector strikes the elephant in the room is neatly sidestepped by the unions, our gardai are on pensions that can be described as nothing else but gold plated. The current way they are setup has an actual situation occurring where a gatdai can retire and live on a pension that is paid for by the state for longer than they actuslly spent working


  • #339
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    fizzypish wrote: »
    Sucks to be a guard or nurse if you joined up in the last 10 (?) years. They should be getting more money but is the money even there? Anyway, makes little difference to me or mine. If we get in trouble theres a minimum of 30 minutes till they get to the home place. Welcome to the thunder dome!

    Won't someone please think of the teachers...


  • #340
    highgiant1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭highgiant1985


    Any one seen any further update on how this will impact on airports? There was talk last week that there could be disruption to the airports because of the strike but I've seen no update on it since.


  • #341
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    VinLieger wrote: »
    As usual when it comes to public sector strikes the elephant in the room is neatly sidestepped by the unions, our gardai are on pensions that can be described as nothing else but gold plated. The current way they are setup has an actual situation occurring where a gatdai can retire and live on a pension that is paid for by the state for longer than they actuslly spent working

    And as usual nobody actually has any real figures for the cost of the pension compared to how much is put in. Now and again people will spout some estimated market value of the pension at about a million which is nowhere near what is paid out and then they'll give some figure of how much a Garda contributes in 30 years, which of course is nowhere near how much an average Garda pays. Then they'll completely ignore the fact that the majority of Gardaí work well past 50, 50 being the retirement date for people who joined at the age of 18 or 19 only. They'll ignore the cases brought against the government to increase the retirement age. They'll ignore the lower life span caused by a lifetime of shift work and police work. Then they will point out the fact that it is possible for a Garda to withdraw a pension for longer than they pay into one, even though this is possible for any pension. And let's not forget that there is no choice in it, and that it includes the normal public pension, and that, no matter how good it is in the future when you claim it, it won't put fuel in your car today, and isn't really relevant when discussing how a wage can be lived on.

    If you want to use a pension as astick to beat the Gardaí with then come up with some actual figures for what it costs compared to how much is paid into it.


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  • #342
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    And as usual nobody actually has any real figures for the cost of the pension compared to how much is put in. Now and again people will spout some estimated market value of the pension at about a million which is nowhere near what is paid out and then they'll give some figure of how much a Garda contributes in 30 years, which of course is nowhere near how much an average Garda pays. Then they'll completely ignore the fact that the majority of Gardaí work well past 50, 50 being the retirement date for people who joined at the age of 18 or 19 only. They'll ignore the cases brought against the government to increase the retirement age. They'll ignore the lower life span caused by a lifetime of shift work and police work. Then they will point out the fact that it is possible for a Garda to withdraw a pension for longer than they pay into one, even though this is possible for any pension. And let's not forget that there is no choice in it, and that it includes the normal public pension, and that, no matter how good it is in the future when you claim it, it won't put fuel in your car today, and isn't really relevant when discussing how a wage can be lived on.

    If you want to use a pension as astick to beat the Gardaí with then come up with some actual figures for what it costs compared to how much is paid into it.

    Nobody can put a number to it cus the only ones who have accurate figures are the unions who once again refuse to talk about it.

    Also very few gardai works the full 30 years on shift work

    Are you trying to claim unions would support increasing the retirement age? Cus thats hilarious

    Im not saying they dont deserve a pay increase but their pension should be part of the conversation and it never is


  • #343
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    And as usual nobody actually has any real figures for the cost of the pension compared to how much is put in. Now and again people will spout some estimated market value of the pension at about a million which is nowhere near what is paid out and then they'll give some figure of how much a Garda contributes in 30 years, which of course is nowhere near how much an average Garda pays. Then they'll completely ignore the fact that the majority of Gardaí work well past 50, 50 being the retirement date for people who joined at the age of 18 or 19 only. They'll ignore the cases brought against the government to increase the retirement age. They'll ignore the lower life span caused by a lifetime of shift work and police work. Then they will point out the fact that it is possible for a Garda to withdraw a pension for longer than they pay into one, even though this is possible for any pension. And let's not forget that there is no choice in it, and that it includes the normal public pension, and that, no matter how good it is in the future when you claim it, it won't put fuel in your car today, and isn't really relevant when discussing how a wage can be lived on.

    If you want to use a pension as astick to beat the Gardaí with then come up with some actual figures for what it costs compared to how much is paid into it.

    Why didn't you offer any "real figures"?

    No matter what way you spin it the Garda pension is a gold plated one.

    Lump sum.
    Index linked.
    Retire on full pension after 30 years.
    So qualify at 20 retire at 50.
    Qualify at 25 retire at 55.
    Qualify at 30 retire at 60.

    How much do you think a pension offering all those benefits would cost a private person?

    How much do you think the Garda actually pays for their pension?

    The Gardai have gold plated pensions and now they want gold plated salaries.


  • #344
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    Why didn't you offer any "real figures"?

    No matter what way you spin it the Garda pension is a gold plated one.

    Lump sum.
    Index linked.
    Retire on full pension after 30 years.
    So qualify at 20 retire at 50.
    Qualify at 25 retire at 55.
    Qualify at 30 retire at 60.

    How much do you think a pension offering all those benefits would cost a private person?

    How much do you think the Garda actually pays for their pension?

    The Gardai have gold plated pensions and now they want gold plated salaries.

    Have you a link where you posted the real figures? Cheers


  • #345
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Nobody can put a number to it cus the only ones who have accurate figures are the unions who once again refuse to talk about it.

    How are the unions the only ones who have the figures? And if that is indeed correct, how are you so certain of your claims when you have nothing to substantiate them.
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Also very few gardai works the full 30 years on shift work

    Have you any kind of source on that?
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Are you trying to claim unions would support increasing the retirement age? Cus thats hilarious

    It would never happen for the same reason that Gardaí cannot negotiate a separate agreement. The larger civil cervice and public sector unions wouldn't allow it. There's plenty of Gardaí that would rather arrange their own pension than have six separate deductions every week from their pay slip.
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Im not saying they dont deserve a pay increase but their pension should be part of the conversation and it never is

    What do you mean it never is? This is the first time the Gardaí have gotten near any kind of official talks and it took a strike threat to do it.
    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    Why didn't you offer any "real figures"?

    No matter what way you spin it the Garda pension is a gold plated one.

    Lump sum.
    Index linked.
    Retire on full pension after 30 years.
    So qualify at 20 retire at 50.
    Qualify at 25 retire at 55.
    Qualify at 30 retire at 60.

    How much do you think a pension offering all those benefits would cost a private person?

    How much do you think the Garda actually pays for their pension?

    The Gardai have gold plated pensions and now they want gold plated salaries.

    You are the one calling the pensions gold plated. You answer the questions. Surely you know the answers if you are in a position to call them gold plated.


  • #346
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    If any group deserves a pay rise it's the Gardai. They do the most dangerous and thankless job of all.

    That people are so willing to deny and/or ignore that says more for the general public than AGS.

    I'd love to see the begrudgers try to do the job, even for one day. They'd fall at the first hurdle.


  • #347
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    Have you a link where you posted the real figures? Cheers

    I didn't ask for "real figures" the poster I quoted did.

    I am funding my own private pension so I know what they cost.
    Gardai pensions are gold plated.

    All my money in my pension is invested at risk in different areas. SO if the financial markets collapse my pension value is affected.

    Gardai pensions are subject to no risk it's paid out at full value no matter what. Another valueble benefit.


  • #348
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    How are the unions the only ones who have the figures? And if that is indeed correct, how are you so certain of your claims when you have nothing to substantiate them.

    Have you any kind of source on that?

    What claims? I never quoted numbers or figures all i know is that the unions never publish the number or figures for the pensions yet are very quick to do so for the pay and other entitlements, and whenever pensions are brought up in interviews they spin hard to get away from the questions
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It would never happen for the same reason that Gardaí cannot negotiate a separate agreement. The larger civil cervice and public sector unions wouldn't allow it. There's plenty of Gardaí that would rather arrange their own pension than have six separate deductions every week from their pay slip.

    Grand so your point about retirement age being the fault of the government is invalid as you agree the unions are the blockers not the government. Also Your deluded if you think the unions would agree to gardai funding their own pensions. As another poster pointed out their pensions are suybject to zero risk unlike normal private pensions.
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    What do you mean it never is? This is the first time the Gardaí have gotten near any kind of official talks and it took a strike threat to do it.

    I mean its never talked about by public sector unions period even though it is a HUGE benefit the rest of us other shmucks out there trying to earn a living will never come close to having a pension anywhere close to as valuable or secure.


  • #349
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    VinLieger wrote: »
    What claims? I never quoted numbers or figures all i know is that the unions never publish the number or figures for the pensions yet are very quick to do so for the pay and other entitlements, and whenever pensions are brought up in interviews they spin hard to get away from the questions



    Grand so your point about retirement age being the fault of the government is invalid as you agree the unions are the blockers not the government. Also Your deluded if you think the unions would agree to gardai funding their own pensions. As another poster pointed out their pensions are suybject to zero risk unlike normal private pensions.



    I mean its never talked about by public sector unions period even though it is a HUGE benefit the rest of us other shmucks out there trying to earn a living will never come close to having a pension anywhere close to as valuable or secure.

    You keep talking about unions. Gardaí have nothing to do with unions other than being bound by their negotiations and decisions despite having no input. When you say unions are you referring to the rep bodies?

    I think you seriously overestimate just how much Garda pensions pay out above the normal public pension.


  • #350
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    Interesting piece on Garda pay in the Indo today...

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-obrien/facts-about-how-much-garda-are-really-paid-must-be-central-in-talks-35184317.html
    On an weekly basis, gardaí are the best paid public sector workers by a distance. They earned on average €1,304 per week in the second quarter of this year (or €67,808 on an annual, 52-week basis). That compares with an average of €906 across the entire public sector and €645 across the private sector. It is worth underscoring the point: average Garda weekly pay is currently almost 50pc higher than across the rest of the public sector. It is 102pc higher than the average in the private sector.

    In the context of demands for restoration, the state's statisticians show that average Garda weekly pay is already above levels in 2008. In the spring of this year it was 2.6pc higher than in the spring of 2008 when the storm clouds of recession were gathering.

    Gardai are well paid.


  • #351
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I think you seriously overestimate just how much Garda pensions pay out above the normal public pension.

    Gardai can retire on full pension after 30 years of service.

    So they can be claiming their pension for as much as 15 years earlier than the rest of the public service.

    15 years of ~€25,000-€30,000 is ~€350,000-€450,000 more.

    Do you not think that is significant?


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  • #352
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    Interesting piece on Garda pay in the Indo today...

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-obrien/facts-about-how-much-garda-are-really-paid-must-be-central-in-talks-35184317.html



    Gardai are well paid.

    You previously posted a link from the Indo that stated Gardaí 174 days annual leave. A complete misrepresentation of fact. Now you are presenting another article from the Indo which uses an average figure that includes senior members and overtime in yet another attempt to misrepresent fact.

    You'd swear overtime was some bonus. It's not given for a smile, you have to work many hours to get overtime money because it is taxed at the higher rate of income, pension levy and usc.


  • #353
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    You previously posted a link from the Indo that stated Gardaí 174 days annual leave. A complete misrepresentation of fact. Now you are presenting another article from the Indo which uses an average figure that includes senior members and overtime in yet another attempt to misrepresent fact.

    You'd swear overtime was some bonus. It's not given for a smile, you have to work many hours to get overtime money because it is taxed at the higher rate of income, pension levy and usc.

    I haven't posted any link which mentions annual leave. I haven't even mentioned annual leave. Why are YOU misrepresenting the facts?!

    Gardai overtime counts when calculating their pensions as do their allowances. They created this system.

    Gardai have gold plated pensions and are well paid. They need to stop threatening to strike and just do their job.


  • #354
    cursai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    Interesting piece on Garda pay in the Indo today...

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-obrien/facts-about-how-much-garda-are-really-paid-must-be-central-in-talks-35184317.html



    Gardai are well paid.

    Are you seriously trying to sell 'average' earnings as a fair example. Does the toilet cleaner in Dail or Supermacs earn the same as Enda Kenny or Pat Mc Donagh.

    STUPID COMPARISON . STUPID


  • #355
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    Gardai can retire on full pension after 30 years of service.

    So they can be claiming their pension for as much as 15 years earlier than the rest of the public service.

    15 years of ~€25,000-€30,000 is ~€350,000-€450,000 more.

    Do you not think that is significant?

    Some Gardaí can retire after 30 years. Some Gardaí retire as soon as possible. Yes you are right that Gardaí can sometimes claim their pensions much earlier than other public sector workers but it is a proven fact that a police officers average lifespan is more than 10 years lower than the average person. So you'll be happy to know it all balances out.


  • #356
    StiffOldMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭StiffOldMan


    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    Interesting piece on Garda pay in the Indo today...

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-obrien/facts-about-how-much-garda-are-really-paid-must-be-central-in-talks-35184317.html



    Gardai are well paid.


    Go away.

    What kind of hours and after how many years service do they get this type of money.. complete bending of the facts there. Overtime is not guaranteed either


  • #357
    Conmc88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭Conmc88


    Iv lost all respect for the Gardai, law makers cannot be the law breakers, its a disgrace we as a nation are even tolerating them. Any other time there was a strike in this country the gardai opposed the citizens of this country and backed the government and corporations (because they were told to ha ha ha ), BUT NOOOOOOOOOO now that its there pay and they decided to strike (which is against the constitution) we are to support them? HA!


  • #358
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Some Gardaí can retire after 30 years. Some Gardaí retire as soon as possible. Yes you are right that Gardaí can sometimes claim their pensions much earlier than other public sector workers but it is a proven fact that a police officers average lifespan is more than 10 years lower than the average person. So you'll be happy to know it all balances out.

    A report from the USA?! FFS you are deluded.

    We live in Ireland, do you have a report that's actually relevant?


  • #359
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    I haven't posted any link which mentions annual leave. I haven't even mentioned annual leave. Why are YOU misrepresenting the facts?!

    Gardai overtime counts when calculating their pensions as do their allowances. They created this system.

    Gardai have gold plated pensions and are well paid. They need to stop threatening to strike and just do their job.

    My mistake, it was a different poster that posted like you. My point still stands about the misrepresentation of CSO figures though.

    Gardaí have never been involved in creating any pension system.

    Still waiting on those figures you use to justify the gold plated label.


  • #360
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    StiffOldMan wrote: »
    Go away.

    What kind of hours and after how many years service do they get this type of money.. complete bending of the facts there. Overtime is not guaranteed either

    Their jobs are guaranteed, as are their gold plated pensions. Gardai are well paid.


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  • #361
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Conmc88 wrote: »
    Iv lost all respect for the Gardai, law makers cannot be the law breakers, its a disgrace we as a nation are even tolerating them. Any other time there was a strike in this country the gardai opposed the citizens of this country and backed the government and corporations (because they were told to ha ha ha ), BUT NOOOOOOOOOO now that its there pay and they decided to strike (which is against the constitution) we are to support them? HA!

    When have Gardaí ever opposed a strike?
    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    A report from the USA?! FFS you are deluded.

    We live in Ireland, do you have a report that's actually relevant?

    There are loads of reports from around the world that back it up. That's just the current most accepted one. Do you think retired police officers in Ireland differ greatly from retired police officers in the U.S? Why is that? Why do you think the study would not apply here?


This discussion has been closed.
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