Why can't we leave the clocks on summertime year round?

Cee-Jay-Cee · 27-10-2016 02:07PM

In Australia the town of Coolangatta has two time zones as the border runs down the middle of it so people living on the QLD side are one hour behind those living on the NSW side of the border as QLD don't change their clocks (as they have sense and know that's its pointless) It causes masses of confusion for people working in one state but residing in the other.

Completely irrelevant to the discussion going on here but I don't care.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 03:08PM

freshpopcorn wrote:

There's more factors than just children to take in is say. School buses in my area generally have primary school children dropped off just after three and secondary before half four so they'd never be in the dark in the evenings. In rural areas their aren't really well lit areas for collection points in my experience often the most lit area would be primary school.

So standing in the dark is only likely to be a problem for primary school children. The demographic is getting smaller. Shouldn't primary school children be supervised by someone in charge of them anyway?

Isn't that just part of the normal risk of leaving the house? Wouldn't high vis vests be a more measured solution?

Changing the time school starts and ends would be a more measured solution than changing the time zone for the whole country to protect primary school children who should he supervised anyway.

freshpopcorn · 27-10-2016 03:15PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So standing in the dark is only likely to be a problem for primary school children. The demographic is getting smaller. Shouldn't primary school children be supervised by someone in charge of them anyway?

Isn't that just part of the normal risk of leaving the house? Wouldn't high vis vests be a more measured solution?

Changing the time school starts and ends would be a more measured solution than changing the time zone for the whole country to protect primary school children who should he supervised anyway.

There's probably more reasons than just the school issue!

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 03:48PM

freshpopcorn wrote:

There's probably more reasons than just the school issue!

There are reasons. Some people like the clocks to change because it's part of the excitement of Christmas.

Good reasons, on the other hand, are very hard to come by. Even those who are certain threshold are good reasons, aren't sure what those reasons actually are.

freshpopcorn · 27-10-2016 04:19PM

Here is attached the estimated sun rising times and sun setting times for the month of December.
If the clocks didn't go back December would be a very dark month.

hot buttered scones · 27-10-2016 04:30PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So standing in the dark is only likely to be a problem for primary school children. The demographic is getting smaller. Shouldn't primary school children be supervised by someone in charge of them anyway?

Isn't that just part of the normal risk of leaving the house? Wouldn't high vis vests be a more measured solution?

Changing the time school starts and ends would be a more measured solution than changing the time zone for the whole country to protect primary school children who should he supervised anyway.

I was thinking the same thing, but then where does that leave working parents?
Surely the best solution is to stick to GMT the year round?

Clea · 27-10-2016 04:40PM

biko wrote: »

Afaik wintertime is normal time and summertime is the "special" adjustment.

This is correct, winter time is "original" time, the clock is changed in summer for the reason that is beyond me. The biggest nonsense ever. I can't wait for this to be over, there are so many countries who already stopped being crazy just because everybody else is.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 27-10-2016 04:42PM

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Not in Ireland. We use IST (Irish Standard Time) in the summer.

Not strictly true, as IST is specifically classified as a Daylight Saving time zone.

sunbeam · 27-10-2016 04:49PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Here is attached the estimated sun rising times and sun setting times for the month of December.
If the clocks didn't go back December would be a very dark month.

Latest sunrise where I am on the Mayo coast is 08.59am and it takes about another 20 minutes for it to clear the mountains. Earliest sunset is 4.17pm, again disappearing behind the hills just before 4. http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.php is great for calculating times for any given location as is LunaSolCal on Android.

Have to say I'd really prefer if we stayed on IST-I hate those dark evenings.

hot buttered scones · 27-10-2016 04:50PM

Clea wrote: »

This is correct, winter time is "original" time, the clock is changed in summer for the reason that is beyond me. The biggest nonsense ever. I can't wait for this to be over, there are so many countries who already stopped being crazy just because everybody else is.

We will always be tied to what the UK does for both political and economic reasons. Sunrise and sunset in London today is 7:42 and 17:46. Whereas is Galway it 8:24 and 18:13 - 45 minutes or so behind. We should probably be in a different time zone (UTC-1) with no DST, but I can't ever see a situation where people have to adjust their watches when crossing the border.

wakka12 · 27-10-2016 04:51PM

Its stupid. The light will still be the same regardless of the given time, if you want bright mornings or evenings then just out and enjoy it without a clock telling you to

hot buttered scones · 27-10-2016 04:54PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Its stupid. The light will still be the same regardless of the given time, if you want bright mornings or evenings then just out and enjoy it without a clock telling you to

Unfortunately, what with work or school or college most people are on a timetable. I'm sick of it. I don't mind them going back so much, but it takes me ages to adjust when they go forward again the Spring.

hot buttered scones · 27-10-2016 04:55PM

sunbeam wrote: »

Latest sunrise where I am on the Mayo coast is 08.59am and it takes about another 20 minutes for it to clear the mountains. Earliest sunset is 4.17pm, again disappearing behind the hills just before 4. http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.php is great for calculating times for any given location as is LunaSolCal on Android.

Have to say I'd really prefer if we stayed on IST-I hate those dark evenings.

I just posted something similar below. In the summer then, it's bright until about 10:30pm, whereas is dark in most of Europe by that time. I kind of like that though.

sunbeam · 27-10-2016 05:02PM

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I just posted something similar below. In the summer then, it's bright until about 10:30pm, whereas is dark in most of Europe by that time. I kind of like that though.

Yeah, I remember suggestions several years ago that we should stay on IST for the winter and put our clocks a further hour on in the summer to line us up with CET. Totally impractical of course, but if we did that we'd almost be in the land of the midnight sun in June.

Laois_Man · 27-10-2016 05:07PM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Does this happen all over the world this weekend?

No

In the US, their clocks don't go back until a week after ours and they put theirs forward 2 weeks before us, making their wintertime 3 weeks shorter than ours overall

topper75 · 27-10-2016 05:25PM

Quackster wrote: »

Firstly, the day of latest sunrise is not actually December solstice but occurs about ten days later. Secondly, the rate by which sunrise gets earlier in the first few months of the year is less than the rate sunrise gets later in the last few months of the year.

The reason for this apparent asymmetry is because the length of a day varies throughout the year but we use a fixed average of 24 hours to keep time.

The good news is the evenings start getting longer from about the 12th December!

Yes but look at the material effect: A 'spring forward' change on the last Sunday in FEBRUARY as opposed to March would see an 08:30 sunrise. That ain't so bad, and in fact is akin to what have in anyway in late January.

The clocks back thing is alright but its the five-month duration that needs to be looked at. Four months would be enough.

Clea · 27-10-2016 06:23PM

Summer savings by country, e.g. countries that have - - - >> means they do not move the clock. I envy them all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_country

nice_guy80 · 27-10-2016 07:01PM

Go to Sweden or Norway and on sunny days people stand on street corners and in parks just soaking up the vitamin D

Swedes are obsessed about a sun holiday in the middle of winter. Thailand is full of them

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 07:05PM

freshpopcorn wrote:

Here is attached the estimated sun rising times and sun setting times for the month of December. If the clocks didn't go back December would be a very dark month.

December is a very dark month no matter what way you slice it. There isn't anything you can do about that. Heonhs around d December do have some extra light and it's wasted in the morning when it could be spent in the evening when most people have free time.

Next week will have sunset before most people leave work at 5 and sunrise before 7.30. That makes no sense whatsoever.

freshpopcorn · 27-10-2016 07:09PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

December is a very dark month no matter what way you slice it. There isn't anything you can do about that. Heonhs around d December do have some extra light and it's wasted in the morning when it could be spent in the evening when most people have free time.

Next week will have sunset before most people leave work at 5 and sunrise before 7.30. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Well if the clocks didn't go back it would be dark until nearly ten of clock in the morning I think if your in either education or working standard hours it would be horrible having at least the first hour of days in darkness.
It was tried and was a failed experiment in the UK!

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 07:14PM

freshpopcorn wrote:

Well if the clocks didn't go back it would be dark until nearly ten of clock in the morning I think if your in either education or working standard hours it would be horrible having at least the first hour of days in darkness.

As I said, December is a right off either way but as it stands the last 2 hours are dark in December. Why on earth is that not a problem but the first hour being dark would be so dreadful?

I don't care whether it's dark for the first hour or the last hour. I do care about the light that's wasted in the morning while most people aren't even out of the house - november and march particularly.

A Dub in Glasgo · 27-10-2016 07:21PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

As I said, December is a right off either way but as it stands the last 2 hours are dark in December. Why on earth is that not a problem but the first hour being dark would be so dreadful?

I don't care whether it's dark for the first hour or the last hour. I do care about the light that's wasted in the morning while most people aren't even out of the house - november and march particularly.

Why don't you get up an hour earlier in December then?

freshpopcorn · 27-10-2016 07:29PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

As I said, December is a right off either way but as it stands the last 2 hours are dark in December. Why on earth is that not a problem but the first hour being dark would be so dreadful?

I don't care whether it's dark for the first hour or the last hour. I do care about the light that's wasted in the morning while most people aren't even out of the house - november and march particularly.

It doesn't really effect me but I did read a bit about the subject a few years ago and it did fail when it was tried out in the UK. There were people really keen for the change but when it did happen it lasted for a few years and it was decided to go back to the old system!

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 09:16PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Why don't you get up an hour earlier in December then?

If we just leave the clocks alone it wouldn't be an issue. I've to be in work for 9 so it would be worth nothing to me in the morning. In the evening after work the light would be useful. Sociable at least.

freshpopcorn wrote:

It doesn't really effect me but I did read a bit about the subject a few years ago and it did fail when it was tried out in the UK. There were people really keen for the change but when it did happen it lasted for a few years and it was decided to go back to the old system!

Can you imagine if the clocks were never changed. I now imagine trying to convince people to change time zone for 5 months a year. Your be made out to be a crazy person. Its only done now because it was always done. Leaving the clocks alone would

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 09:19PM

Leaving the clocks alone would be so easy

A Dub in Glasgo · 27-10-2016 09:22PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If we just leave the clocks alone it wouldn't be an issue. I've to be in work for 9 so it would be worth nothing to me in the morning. In the evening after work the light would be useful. Sociable at least.

Keeping the way we do it now benefits others, you can benefit from the earlier daylight in the morning by getting up an hour earlier - win, win

Quackster · 27-10-2016 10:46PM

topper75 wrote: »

Yes but look at the material effect: A 'spring forward' change on the last Sunday in FEBRUARY as opposed to March would see an 08:30 sunrise. That ain't so bad, and in fact is akin to what have in anyway in late January.

The clocks back thing is alright but its the five-month duration that needs to be looked at. Four months would be enough.

I totally agree. I think we should adopt the same schedule as North America as not only would this mean three weeks less winter time, it would also mean European time zones and American time zones would maintain a constant relationship throughout the year.

But as the dates for beginning and ending European summer time are regulated by the EU, that decision is not ours to make.

Peregrinus · 28-10-2016 02:34AM

Quackster wrote: »

I totally agree. I think we should adopt the same schedule as North America as not only would this mean three weeks less winter time, it would also mean European time zones and American time zones would maintain a constant relationship throughout the year.

But as the dates for beginning and ending European summer time are regulated by the EU, that decision is not ours to make.

Not all parts of North American observe daylight saving time, and those that do do not all make the switch on the same day. This is true not just between different North American countries, but even within North American countries.

Europe is far more co-ordinated on this that North America is, and if there is to be agreement on standard days for making the switch, it's obvious that the existing European standard days should be adopted, since there are no North American standard days. Plus, far more people live in the EU than in North America, so having North Americans make the switch will inconvenience fewer people.

But the fact is that there is a limit to the amount of co-ordination that you can hope to acheive. Whether daylight saving makes sense at all and, if it does, what form of daylight saving, and when it should take effect, is determined to a large extent by geographical factors which - by definition - will vary from place to place.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2016 06:20AM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Keeping the way we do it now benefits others, you can benefit from the earlier daylight in the morning by getting up an hour earlier - win, win

So far the list of people who would benefit stretches as far as some primary school children who have drop off points in the countryside. However children are presumably under supervision anyway so I'm not sure how much it would benefit them in reality though.

Who else benefits? Traditionalists? A couple of posts said here just be over benefits but they didn't say what they are

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-10-2016 07:09AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So far the list of people who would benefit stretches as far as some primary school children who have drop off points in the countryside. However children are presumably under supervision anyway so I'm not sure how much it would benefit them in reality though.

Who else benefits? Traditionalists? A couple of posts said here just be over benefits but they didn't say what they are

So far, the list of people who benefit with a change are folk on here who do not want to get up an hour earlier to benefit from the lighter mornings

Why can't we leave the clocks on summertime year round?

Comments