Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

The Black Oil · 08-10-2016 05:04PM

nop98 wrote: »

Well done folks! That's one of the great things about this thread - the LSR meet-ups, shared miles are easier miles.

Out of interest, what route did you take?

I believe they call it the "We're from the internet and don't really know what we're doing", route. :pac:

robinwing · 08-10-2016 05:14PM

kittyclaws wrote: »

This marathon training melarky just ain't for me \_( '',)_/
Just back from a dismal attempt at 20 miles, called it a day when I passed my car at 17 miles, I couldn't bear to do another loop. My hips (yes-plural, they're ganging up on me) were so sore, fine when I walked-so I done plenty of that, but as soon as I started running they were sore again. Ive accepted that I am not designed to run this distance, I'm still doing DCM- but it's looking like plan A of 4.50-5.00 is well out the window, now it's Plan stay between the pace groups as long as possible and see how far I can go til the hip pain kicks in.
I've another 20 mile on the plan for next Saturday so we'll see how that one goes.

Next Saturday is very close to the marathon to do a 20 miler , can you recover from a LSR in time for the big day in a fortnight ? , due to commitments elsewhere I got only 10 miles in total in this week so am going to do a 19 mile long run tomorrow . I intended not to bother with another long run but needs must now. It takes a long time for the body to recover from a very long run , there is much more benefit now in tapering gradually and resting a lot . Lots of sleep and eating at the proper times daily . I am NOT going to time my long run tomorrow and will start at a very comfortable pace . "Its not the distance but the pace that kills ". Get the mind right now , don't be anxious , look forward to enjoying the marathon day . If the mind is right the body will follow. As a veteran of running a good few marathons over 30 years ago I know the value of a positive mental attitude to the day . Start slowly and drink early. GOOD LUCK FOLKS !

Antwerp · 08-10-2016 05:55PM

Thanks for that, Robinwing some great tips.

It's probably been mentioned earlier but great write up on DCM in the latest Irish runner even has a centre piece route map with the drink/gel stations marked on it , although tbh thought there would be more gel stations however suppose if in doubt just bring your own supply &#55357;&#56844; (Also since I'm a slow runner there is always dreaded fear that they might be all gone by time you arrive at that gel station so best be prepared)

Tapering and its benefits is also covered, don't be tempted to try and out run the plan just trust it &#55357;&#56397;

Safrongirl · 08-10-2016 06:03PM

Can I ask whats the longest run people are doing this week ? My plan is saying 28Km next week ?

Maximus Alexander · 08-10-2016 06:05PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

Can I ask whats the longest run people are doing this week ? My plan is saying 28Km next week ?

The Boards plan has 22.5km next Saturday. Don't know about the others.

FITZA · 08-10-2016 06:12PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

Can I ask whats the longest run people are doing this week ? My plan is saying 28Km next week ?

Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan has 12m/19.3K next weekend. Longest run this weekend of 20m.

RasTa · 08-10-2016 06:17PM

Only got out today this week, 50+ hours in work standing on my feet for all of it so got some sort of exercise.

Today's was a bit of a drag, legs and everything else seemed to be holding up fine but mentally I was looking forward to the end from about 12m on. Took some more of the Marathon route in and thought it might be over for a split second when I tripped running from the road onto the path and thought I was going head first into the railings inside the park.

18m @ 9.52

Another 3-3 in work tomorrow then a few days off for a much needed and first sports massage. If anybody has any recommendations around D15 or town then let me know.

nop98 · 08-10-2016 06:36PM

An early head-start on the LSR reports. We already had some good news from Safrongirl and faitmc (and if I have missed others, apologies) - and the other reports are just coming in thick and fast...

Sick-bay checklist:
A Neurotic - after organizing a meet-up he had to pull out :eek:. Hope you're alright, dude - and thanks for your efforts. I hope you're not in jeopardy of missing a lot of training miles at this stage.

First of all we had some good news:

aceygray is pounding the pavements again. After some mid-week mileage, a careful 8M. Really pleased to see you back, 4 days running MAX this week and listen to your body. Take one day at the time, if you think you're not up for the day's prescribed mileage, then scale back or skip. It won't make that much of a difference at this stage. Yes, you will have taken a dip fitness wise, but some of it is still there, it is a matter of "reconnecting" to it. If you can get the miles in this week, and a decent LSR, well, that's as much you can hope for. Keep us posted!

Then we had some struggles & niggles ...

JackieChan turns out to be human after all! Sensible course of action to take some time off. Well done to get through the 20 miles despite not feeling the love. The taper will sort you out, just easy miles, as you say. I am sure you'll be just fine.
Kittyclaws - 17 miles gained the hard way. Take a day or two, and then plan your week ahead. A few folks have already suggested not to push for the 20-miles next week.
budhistmonk - 20 hard, hard miles. Well done toughening it out. Check the usual indicators (e.g. morning resting heart-rate) to see if there's anything amiss. You'll learn more from these really tough runs than from plain sailing. Skip any recovery effort if you don't feel like it.

And then the LSR reports have started dripping in...
tipping clocked off a 21-miler. Well done! How are your tapering weeks looking? You should really bring down your mileage a little to be fresh and hungry for the day...
tony1980 seems to have bounced back completely. Awesome. Almost 21 care-free miles in the bank. Well done. Keep the ship steady now for the next couple of weeks.
Maximus, Pomplamousse, and TBO - Well done for pulling together and getting your last hard run done. Really pleased that your left leg played ball today, Pompla. All three of you, relax, look after yourselves, you can be very pleased with getting through your training weeks relatively intact!
Wubble2 - Good job. I like that general idea of getting plenty of miles in, and then joining a parkrun. Mind that knee, I am a little worried about "stinging ITBs". Massage planned?
Antwerp - clocked up 20-miles without much of a fuzz, well done, taper well..!

ligerdub - You should really dial down your mileage this week. It looks like you're running most your runs at PMP which might feel reasonably doable, but you run the risk of burning out and not being fresh on the day. Don't aim for a 60k week, and don't aim for a 20M long run next weekend, just a fortnight out. Have a look at the boards-plan mileage, that should be more than adequate (links in opening post).
RasTa managed 18M and nearly did some serious damage to himself (not really running related). Enjoy your time off and that massage. Ouch. It's gonna hurt

Robinwing's thoughts are worth repeating - thanks for a timely reminder:

robinwing wrote: »

.... there is much more benefit now in tapering gradually and resting a lot. Lots of sleep and eating at the proper times daily .... If the mind is right the body will follow. As a veteran of running a good few marathons over 30 years ago I know the value of a positive mental attitude to the day. Start slowly and drink early. GOOD LUCK FOLKS !

Antwerp · 08-10-2016 07:04PM

Thanks NOP98, fir all your advice, feeling surprisingly still ok in that my legs are fine, unless I'm in for a delayed reaction....eek!!!

While I'm in DCM bubble may I ask is there a formula to decide on the correct pace/s for DCM based on training already completed (rather then picking a finishing time and working it back) in that do I base on DCHM or perhaps use average pace ran for 20 miler (although I ran three 20 milers to date, with today being the quickest, unintentionally I may add)?

Thanks

The Muppet · 08-10-2016 07:07PM

Busy today so the plan was to do my 18mile lsr from home incorporating malahide parkrun, I arrived in malahide castle 4 miles into my run see the parkrun just starting, that gave me a laugh as I was a good bit behind them. I t actually worked out well as when I caught up I wasnt under any pressure to do anything other than run easy, after the parkrun I ran into coolock, felt a little unwell on this section and had to make detour to a field. I felt ok after that but a few times I though I had miscalculated the route and it was longer than 18 possibly 20 , this caused me to consider turning around and heading back to swords to do loops, I had a few battles with myself over this but I've never deviated from a planned route and common sense previals and I stuck with what I was doing just cutting a bit off in coolock by going up through Darndale. I run there all the time never had a problem btw

From Coolock I headed to morton stadium Santry and then back the old airport road to swords. I paused the watch to cross at the MI slip road as it was very busy and forgot to start it again until near the stadium. Back to swords then is mostly down hill so I just plodded on to get to 18.

I have a few niggles like most of us have i'd imagine , but nothing that the taper won't fix. I'm delighted to have come through the really long runs without serious injury. I did take it very easy today but my route was hilly enough and I,m happy with the pace.

Just have to mind myslef now for the next two weeks and hopefully I will be in reasonable condition on the startline .

18.01 miles @134 bpm 11.10 pace

All or nothing · 08-10-2016 07:25PM

I got my 18 miles done this morning. Both feet very sore now. I'd say they will need a wheelchair for me at the finish line of DCM. On a positive note I found the run good. Stayed at a very steady 11/mi pace all the way around. Then as soon as I stopped running (half a mile from home) I was nearly limping. You can put up with the bit of pain while running, but it gets very sore walking then. Very frustrating when I'm in such good shape..except for these two silly feet I have.
This marathon has taught me that I'm not made for marathons. My biomechanics are all wrong. I have too many imbalances which I have tried to correct with strength work..I might just buy a bike after this.

I'm off to buy a new pair of runners tomorrow anyway, I'll wear them on the recovery run tomorrow then. Hopefully they will help. Back to the physio then again on Tuesday.

Lots of great running done today by everyone. Not long to the big day now

ligerdub · 08-10-2016 07:39PM

Thanks NOP98.

Well done everyone.

kin9pin · 08-10-2016 07:48PM

18m LSR today. After running pain-free all week this was the big test for my shin and I'm absolutely delighted that I felt nothing, nothing at all.
I headed into Stephens Green with my brother and his family. Pulled up my compression socks, took the leg pulling well, then went off on my way.
As usual I ran the DCM route to PP, skipped most of the park, taking in Military Rd, then joined DCM at Chapelizod Gate. The plan was then to run to the bottom of Fosters Avenue at 10min pace.
Felt great most of the way, even Crumlin Rd didn't seem so bad, but my mind started playing games just before Milltown. It was like I was trying to convince myself to just jump on the Luas home. Got through that bit, but I found Clonskeagh Rd tougher than last time and Roebuck showed me what to expect on the day if my head isn't right. Nice easy run down to Foster's for the finish though in 2:59:51 (so pretty good pacing

)

Overall I'm happy. I'll just put the last 3 miles behind me.

Well done everyone else on the LSRs.

paddydriver · 08-10-2016 08:14PM

I feel late to the updates here.. Sorry. I do really like my Saturday's with the family after my long runs as I really feel like I've achieved something good that I can go out running at 7AM and arrive back to find the family still in PJs and me bouncing in the door wanting a quick shower and back out to do stuff.. (EAT).

Anyway, as planned I got out at 7AM and met my running partner at Taney Luas bridge. He wanted to do 20M on this plan and I was 18M so we just talked few ideas and went running. In end we just took a tour of everywhere.. Headed up for lap of Deer Park (my aul favourite) then went down to UCD and ran all around it, out then and ran across to St Helens and randomly around some housing estates till we arrived back out about 1km further down N11 so from there it was down and across to Rock Rd all the way to Peoples Park in Dun Laoghaire and 10k home from there. All in all it was 19.5M for me.

Because of the disjointed nature of the run we did go abit too fast but still managed a good pace home for last few Km.

I have had a few aches during the week so this run was a good measure of whether these were just general wear and tear or genuine issues. All in all I didn't have any major discomfort and made it around fine. Still have some soreness in right knee that I get after outer quad has been sore but nothing I am not used to after 650M of marathon miles! Left foot a little stiff too but that's not unusual either. Will do a short recovery tomorrow evening and then Monday off.

Great to read all the check ins and see all went well for most and that many exit the sick bay.. Some nearly out.

I'm hoping the taper will help me rebuild and recover in next few weeks. Not taking anything for granted but 30th of Oct is rapidly approaching and weeks are flying by.

crogerso · 08-10-2016 08:23PM

After a not so good week I was pretty nervous about todays LSR but thankfully I got through it with no major issues. So relieved!

After taking Wednesday and Thursday off due to sharp pain in my heel Tuesday I thought I would be feeling great but I actually felt a much worse pain radiating into my ankle, especially tender when I put any pressure on it. Had a minor meltdown Thursday night when I only felt slight improvement thinking that my LSR would be out for the weekend but I focused on lots of foam rolling, stretching and icing the area in the hopes it would work out. Thankfully I had no pain until about mile 14 and at this stage I was back to a stretch where I could thankfully run on the grass; I found this really eased the discomfort.By no means was I feeling like I could have gone on any longer, legs were very very tired but I hopped straight into a cold bath when I got home and a little while later soaked in a hot bath with epsom salts. Feel like this was worth it. Legs are still wrecked but no tenderness anymore which is a relief.

Well done to all on LSRs today, it really is amazing how far we have come. Sorry to hear of those who had trouble, I hope the tapering in the next few weeks makes a difference to all the injuries and gets us all to the start line in good shape!

Sorry to have missed the meet up this morning; I was nervous about how far I'd get on my LSR so thought it was safer to stay near home so I could turn back if necessary. Possibly for the best though, I'm terrible when I don't know the route I'm doing would probably have struggled with that! Although looking at the link you attached it seemed quite a nice one in the end!

Well done again and as always thanks to all for the advice and words of encouragement.

sibeen99 · 08-10-2016 08:24PM

Well done everyone on the long runs. Hard to believe its taper time already. I did 16 miles today and felt great. Slight niggle in left calf but will foam roll it plenty until I see the physio again. However as the day progressed I seem to be coming down with a headcold

So I'm keeping wrapped up and hoping it doesn't get any worse.

jake1970 · 08-10-2016 08:31PM

paddydriver wrote: »

Kingpin said that to me last week on our run.. I winced! The thought of 26 days off running! Let's get to DCM first and then plan out afterwards but honestly I think it would be a recovery run for me on the Monday then a few days off, but back to running by Thursday.

Anyone entering the Berlin 2017 lottery...

The day after the marathon:eek: you will be lucky to be able to walk never mind run:)

tipping · 08-10-2016 08:41PM

nop98 wrote: »

tipping clocked off a 21-miler. Well done! How are your tapering weeks looking? You should really bring down your mileage a little to be fresh and hungry for the day...

I'm very loosely following the P&D 55 plan. The 21 today was only as the company was doing 21 but I found it not a bother as pace was handy enough the whole way around.

Had a quick look at the taper weeks last week and next week drops down to about 40 miles with 16 mile lsr. Considering doing a tune up 10k next week (as is in the plan) but it would be Sunday so post rather than pre lsr. Will make my mind up later in the week.
Taper really kicks in week 2 with about 30 miles and week 3 is very light.
But training is going to back off from today and I have every intention of getting to the line fresh and with plenty bounce in the legs. All the hard work is done now and it's about getting to the line in 1 piece.

nop98 · 08-10-2016 08:54PM

paddydriver wrote: »

Kingpin said that to me last week on our run.. I winced! The thought of 26 days off running! Let's get to DCM first and then plan out afterwards but honestly I think it would be a recovery run for me on the Monday then a few days off, but back to running by Thursday.

jake1970 wrote: »

The day after the marathon:eek: you will be lucky to be able to walk never mind run:)

Thank you jake1970!

Stern voice :mad: "Paddy. Stop thinking about your mileage the week after. The focus is on the (tapering) mileage and getting ready for, and around on the big day!"

I'm serious

. It took me a week to hobble 3 painful recovery miles around the local parkrun route. Others took more, and others took less. Singer probably ran home.

Take stock in the days following, by all means, target a nice 5 or 10k in the fall to "cash in" on all your training, but don't put pressure on yourself to run the day after. 'kay?

paddydriver · 08-10-2016 08:55PM

nop98 wrote: »

Thank you jake1970!

Stern voice :mad: "Paddy. Stop thinking about your mileage the week after. The focus is on the (tapering) mileage and getting ready for, and around on the big day!"

I'm serious . It took me a week to hobble 3 painful recovery miles around the local parkrun route. Others took more, and others took less. Singer probably ran home.

Take stock in the days following, by all means, target a nice 5 or 10k in the fall to "cash in" on all your training, but don't put pressure on yourself to run the day after. 'kay?

Yes boss..

Maybe a run down for a Big Mac and Fries..:P

tony1980 · 08-10-2016 08:56PM

Kona is on right now if anyone is interested

http://m.eu.ironman.com/triathlon/coverage/detail.aspx?race=worldchampionship&year=2016

PauloMN · 08-10-2016 09:21PM

Well done on the LSRs today all, and best of luck to anyone doing them tomorrow (or doing the 3/4 marathon in Longwood). For anyone who didn't have such a good weekend - don't worry about it, we've all had at least one, and we've all done many more long runs that went well!

Thanks Nop for the continued support and advice. It's really important esp this month when the taper begins.

My plan had me running a 16 mile LSR this morning. Was lovely to "only" be out for 2.5 hours running after the recent big miles runs. Had a bit of a niggle on the arch of my foot from a speed session on Tuesday night which was worrying me a bit, so had given it plenty of elevation, icing and rolling and thankfully didn't give me any problems at all. Hip still a bit sore later on in the run, so plan is to do some regular hip exercises and stretches this week and keep an eye on it as the miles reduce.

The run itself went great - but I went out at almost race pace for the whole lot (I know, I know..... stupid..... couldn't help myself). Also managed to take it up a notch for the last km, again I'm sure this is not the best idea but it's a real confidence boost for me to know I can up the tempo a little at the end of a long run. So overall the average pace was 9:14 for the 16 miles.

Legs felt good overall after it, and did plenty of mundane walking around a shopping centre in the afternoon (it's got to be done

) - I always find that moving the legs after a long run is a great help for me.

So the full week for me was:

Monday - 6 miles @ easy
Tuesday - 9km club speed session, plus about 1.5 miles easy to/from session
Thursday - 6 miles @ easy
Saturday - 16 miles @ 9:14

So around 35 miles in total this week. Similar plan for next week but 12 miles being the LSR next weekend.

Mrs Mc · 08-10-2016 09:29PM

nop98 wrote: »

Thank you jake1970!

Stern voice :mad: "Paddy. Stop thinking about your mileage the week after. The focus is on the (tapering) mileage and getting ready for, and around on the big day!"

I'm serious . It took me a week to hobble 3 painful recovery miles around the local parkrun route. Others took more, and others took less. Singer probably ran home.

Take stock in the days following, by all means, target a nice 5 or 10k in the fall to "cash in" on all your training, but don't put pressure on yourself to run the day after. 'kay?

It was the jingle bells 5 km run the majority of us aimed for last year or the last park run in December to break the 5 km PBS which have been waiting on the sideline since you started dcm training.

Well done on all the long runs everyone. I'm off to bed 22 miles for me in the morning

Singer · 08-10-2016 09:36PM

kittyclaws wrote: »

This marathon training melarky just ain't for me \_( '',)_/
Just back from a dismal attempt at 20 miles, called it a day when I passed my car at 17 miles, I couldn't bear to do another loop. My hips (yes-plural, they're ganging up on me) were so sore, fine when I walked-so I done plenty of that, but as soon as I started running they were sore again. Ive accepted that I am not designed to run this distance, I'm still doing DCM- but it's looking like plan A of 4.50-5.00 is well out the window, now it's Plan stay between the pace groups as long as possible and see how far I can go til the hip pain kicks in.
I've another 20 mile on the plan for next Saturday so we'll see how that one goes.

Just to pile on here, with a slightly different perspective...

I'm far from an expert on this stuff, but 20 miles next week doesn't great to me. Most plans don't have 20 miles on them two weeks out, but more notable to me is that at your pace that'd be nearly 4 hours on your feet two weeks out from the marathon. To me that sounds bone and soul crushing. Today you ran for over 3 and a half hours (I'm pretty sure you're aware of this

) and this amount of time on your feet takes a long time to recover from. I think you would be better with limiting the time on your feet to at most 3 hours, and run it well, finishing a bit faster than you started off (presuming your hips are feeling fine!). Keeping the niggles away and allowing your sore hips to recover between now and the marathon is more important than another massive run.

Here's a good article with some info about why runs over 3 hours mightn't be particularly beneficial:
https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/are-you-putting-too-much-emphasis-on-the-long-run-as-part-of-your-marathon-training/

diego_b · 08-10-2016 09:45PM

Well done on your LSRs everyone, delighted to see so many of you make it to this stage of the game. You might not believe it but you have already trained your bodies to run the marathon now, at this point it's just maintaining and healing from niggles to get to the start line as fresh as you can.
Taper madness will kick in probably towards the end of next week when you start to feel fresh again and probably attempt to do your now shortening LSRs too fast. That will not benefit you come marathon day.....please hold steady to your plans/paces and trust in your training structures to date. They have got you this far and that's no mean feat for what is a first attempt at a marathon for many of you. You have probably ran more in the last 3-4 months than possibly ever before so it makes sense that niggles are showing. Training may not have been the most joyful experience at times, those bad runs will stand to your mentality every step of the way come October 30th. Those runs where things were perfect and it was sunshine and lollipops all day long, we love those and wish every run was like that but not to be in a marathon cycle.
With niggles....if they really are only a niggle that's fine and should pass within the the next week or so. If you have concerns please go see your physios to be sure to be sure.

Singer · 08-10-2016 09:48PM

nop98 wrote: »

Thank you jake1970!

Stern voice :mad: "Paddy. Stop thinking about your mileage the week after. The focus is on the (tapering) mileage and getting ready for, and around on the big day!"

I'm serious . It took me a week to hobble 3 painful recovery miles around the local parkrun route. Others took more, and others took less. Singer probably ran home.

Hah! The week after DCM last year I managed a total 8 slow, creaky miles. The week after that I got up to twenty something, and then a niggle I picked up from the marathon forced me off the roads for a week. It wasn't until 4 weeks after the marathon that I felt back to normal. I'd definitely have low expectations for the month of November!

However in December I ran every day and three races (all PBs) :cool:

joesoap5 · 08-10-2016 10:07PM

tony1980 wrote: »

Kona is on right now if anyone is interested

http://m.eu.ironman.com/triathlon/coverage/detail.aspx?race=worldchampionship&year=2016

Have you had a read zico's log on the Triathlon forum?
He has impressively qualified for Kona next year.
You should read his experience, sub 3 hour marathon after swimming and biking. Hes an animal.

tony1980 · 08-10-2016 10:17PM

joesoap5 wrote: »

Have you had a read zico's log on the Triathlon forum?
He has impressively qualified for Kona next year.
You should read his experience, sub 3 hour marathon after swimming and biking. Hes an animal.

No, but I will be now. That is incredible, to be able to do a sub 3 alone is an amazing achievement but to do it after that swim and cycle is just unbelieveable!!

tony1980 · 08-10-2016 10:25PM

Just browsing around strava there and just noticed the date I started running last year (couch25k) was October 3rd, so a year and 5 days later, here i am starting taper mode for a marathon, so incredibly happy and grateful to have gotten this far in a year. Thanks Nop and all the backroom staff for all the motivation and tips over these last 5 months, we couldn't have done it without all of your help.

Hopefully the next couple of weeks goes well for everyone, really looking forward to meeting everyone afterwards :-)

scotindublin · 09-10-2016 05:06AM

Another Sunday morning and a other 0600 post from me; much tougher getting up at this time when it is dark out there!

Last of the really long runs this morning though....Starting in Chapelizod and running a good chunk of the marathon course before hitting the Quays and back to Chapelizod.

Great stuff from you all yesterday most seem to have gotten through it and some great advice given again by nop and his support crew for those who didn't have such a good day.

Hopefully those heading out today get their miles done and dusted.

The Graeme Obree breakfast today toast and strawberry jam....pretty sure the massive steak dinner after golf yesterday will get me through this

Craig

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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