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Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread
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02-05-2016 8:53pm#1Welcome to the 2016 edition of the Dublin Marathon Mentored Novices Thread!
This is the 8th leg of this epic journey. In 2009, the tradition was started by --amadeus--. Rainbow kirby took over in 2010, Raycun in 2011, followed by Younganne in 2012. career_move followed suit by taking care of the Novices in 2013, passing the baton to Ososlo for the amazing class of 2014. The wonderful Dubgal72 managed to get a large group of Novices over the line in 2015.
As the tradition goes, one of last years Novices is asked to host the next thread. This honor has somehow been bestowed on me (nop98) - so, let's get this party started.
About the Novices thread
Anyone considering doing the Dublin City Marathon for the first time this year, on October 30th - this thread is especially for you. Even if you have tried your hand at a marathon before, but want to go again, feel free to join. You can consider following one of the two programs we have - both starting towards the end of June, you can ask whatever questions you might have (keep it running related
) and share experiences with your fellow Novices.
The opening posts of the two previous Novices threads are compulsive reading for all 2016 Novices - I'll capture some of the highlights below.
We'll work with an online mileage tracker, that will allow all Novices to track their progress as we move through the months. Details to follow, but for reference, the tracker of the 2015 class can be viewed here.
We will do our best to answer and guide you as much as we can. There's a "team" of fellow former Novices and more experienced marathoners in place to help out with answering your questions. Furthermore, there are many very experienced runners on this forum, who are all invited and encouraged to share their experiences and help guide the class of 2026 to what will hopefully be a fabulous day in October - with positive and constructive feedback!
Will I, won't I !?
An excellent question. Do you want an honest answer?
Training for your first marathon is hard! As much as this thread will aim to help, you'll have to do a lot of that hard work (well, all of that hard work, actually) yourself. A lot of it on your own, and a lot of it at unsociable hours.
Obviously, this journey requires a reasonable level of fitness, and you may consider a full medical check just to be sure. Some of you might have already made up your mind, and will try and tackle the distance this year - maybe having tried before, or covered one or more half marathons to date. Some of you might not be so sure. The good thing is, you don't have to make up your mind, just yet.
Our training plans start Monday, June 27th. The guidance is to be running quite regularly, for a year. Come June 27th, you want to be running comfortably 3-4 times a week, every week, at that stage, covering at least 20 miles per week. My recommendation is to examine the two training plans on offer carefully, and start structuring your training routines like the early weeks, starting right now. Start getting used to running 3-4 days in a row, and a longer run at the weekend. Can you fit this in your daily routine, your holiday plans, your family life? If you're unsure, just try it out for a couple of weeks and see how you get on. The mileage in the programs will go up, so be realistic in your self-assessment Post your progress here and we'll try and give an honest assessment.
Training Plans
This thread works of two plans: the Hal Higdon Novice 1 plan, and the Boards.ie plan, designed by career_move and expanded by Ososlo and Dubgal in recent years. The plans have been used successfully by many Novices over the years, and are slightly adapted to fit the 2016 race series schedule.- The Hal Higdon Novice 1 plan is a widely used novice marathon plan. It's a simple, and straightforward plan, which slowly increases the weekly mileage to eventually include a 20 mile training run, and has step-back weeks built in to help the body adapt. It uses 3 mid-week runs, which will slowly increase in length, and a longer weekend run. Ideally, you mix in one day of cross-training, too.
- The Boards plan for 2016 is for slightly more experienced runners. It includes a more variety in paces (either "easy" pace, or PMP ("planned marathon pace")), it includes strides on some of the easy runs, and generally covers more miles - e.g. 2 20 milers and more long LSRs.
There are many more plans out there - you can use whichever appeals to you. Hopefully, for most 2016 Novices, one of our plans fits the bill. If you're looking for some pre-plan training advice, check this out.
Some General Advice- Choose a plan, and stick to it. Try not to miss runs (especially the longer runs). If you do need to cut out a training run, cut out one of the shorter easy runs, and don't try and make up for it. Obviously, you can swap days around within a week to suit your needs.
- In the weeks leading up to the start of the program, ramp up your mileage very gently towards 20 miles. Don't increase your mileage by more than 10% each week.
- Run slow. Once you think you run slow enough, run even slower. You will not be able to complete all the training miles if you don't run the majority of them slow (slower than you will run on the day itself). Once the program is about to start, we'll talk about how to determine your ideally training paces.
- Be realistic. First of all, about being able to participate this year. A marathon is quite an undertaking - ideally you have already participated at the shorter distances. Second of all, about your goals for the day. If you do want to set a target time (we'll talk about that later), be conservative. The marathon has the tendency to catch up with you.
- Be sensible about things like nutrition, alcohol, and sleep. You don't have to start leading a Spartan lifestyle, but paying attention to this things will reap benefits in the long run. Everything in moderation (except for the sleep part!).
- Get yourself a decent pair of running shoes (if you don't have them already). You're likely to go through at least one pair during this cycle. It's also worthwhile to invest in a couple of sets of proper socks and t-shirts (if you don't have them already). You're going to be hogging that washing machine so having a few extras won't hurt. There's a lot of other gadgets you might use during training or on the day itself, we'll talk about that later.
- Listen to your body. If something doesn't feel right, stop your run. If it persists, seek professional advice. This thread will not be able to cover or answer medical issues. "Get your physio on speed-dial", Dubgal said repeatedly last year.
- Discuss your plans with your significant other(s). They'll have to deal with a lot of marathon talk and exhaustion over the coming couple of months! You need them on your side more than us!
I ran my first and so far only marathon as part of Dubgal's class of 2015, having participated in about half-a-dozen half marathons before that. I followed the Boards.ie plan as close as real life allowed. Sometimes, it felt that the scheduling effort was harder than the running itself! Despite having a decent base, I thought the first 6 weeks of the plan to be the hardest, as the mileage ramps up rather quickly. On the day itself, I ran for hours with the wonderful 4-hour pacers. Unfortunately, during the last couple of miles, I had to stop twice due to cramp. I managed to come home in ~4h02, and almost fell in the arms of the great Sonia O'S, who was standing at the finishline, congratulating finishers, fresh as a daisy from her 3h marathon. One of the more memorable days of my life!
The support, advice, and camraderie on the 2015 Novices thread carried me (and many fellow Novices) through the hard training months. I hope this thread will help you, 2016 Novices, as much as it helped us.
Joining in the fun
Wanna be part of this amazing journey? I hope you still do! Feel free to introduce yourself if you want to participate. All are welcome. It will help us tremendously if you could answer the following questions:- Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
- Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
- How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
- What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
- How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
- Why are you running this marathon?
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Best of everything to all the Novices of 2016. This thread is magic. You are in the best hands with nop! There is a wealth of advice on here and with nop guiding you all, you can't go wrong. I am having a bit of a 'proud mammy moment' here *sniffle*....so you novices are my grandkids?! :eek:
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BeepBeep67 wrote: »For the love of God, please go back and edit the title, or I'll be saying that in the voice of Christy Brown ever time I read it
:pac:
:pac:0 -
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Have been keeping an eye out for this thread and am hoping that this year is the year that I start, finish (and most importantly) enjoy a marathon.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yes, although never a marathon.
5k Clane March 2016 PB 26:34
1 Mile ALSSA Track Feb 2016 8:31 (had never run a timed mile before and it's a bit of a soft PB)
1/2 Marathon Waterford Viking June 2015 2:10:43 PB - did the same race the year before in 2:23:05
Have also raced 10k and 5 mile but both distances so long ago that not sure how relevant the times are.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
Generally no, not unless I am doing intervals or something and the recovery can be walked or jogged.
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
A few weeks ago the answer was 3 - 4 runs including some speedy (for me) work and an LSR. Along with at least once every two weeks a long walk (approx 30k), a little swimming, occasional pilates classes and sometimes I cycle as the quickest way to get from A to B. Last few weeks have been bad, real life and crap and stress and deadlines got in the way and then last week was floored with some stupid bug probably because of the stress and lack of exercise. Still not 100 per cent so focus for this week is to get well, and slowly throw in a few runs. BF is doing a C25K programme so might go out with him to ease myself back into it.
Between now and start of June plan is to increase millage slowly, and also keep up with the long walks because first two weeks of June I am doing the Camino (section of Portuguese Way from Lisbon to Porto) which will involve 13 days of walking c. 30k a day. Know its not running but surely some of the same muscle fibers will be engaged? When I get back the focus will be on running and ancillary stuff that keeps me fit for running (like pilates and gentle swimming).
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Primary Goal: Get to the start line in one piece, enjoy the experience on 30 October - time doesn't matter.
Gosh wouldn't it be great Goal: Finish (and enjoy) in <4:29:59
Flipping Heck I can Dream Goal: Finish (and enjoy) in <4:14:59
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Once the Camino is out of the way, I can train 5 - 6 days a week. I know from experience that I need a proper full rest day in each week, or at the very least in each 10 day cycle.
Plan to follow the Boards Plan, the other one just looks really dull and I think I would get bored.
Why are you running this marathon?
Why not? :rolleyes:
More seriously though, I hurt my back about 10 years ago and could barely walk, let alone run or cycle or take part in any sports. Lots and lots and lots of pain, tears, physio and stubbornness later, I can do this stuff again and I do not want to take it for granted. I still regularly get a thrill out of just being able to run. I also like to challenge myself, and a marathon is certainly a challenge.
I am also doing a PhD and promised myself that during the four years, I would do a marathon as a way of keeping a balance between mind and body.
So that is me, I also have a log although its probably got a bit of dust on it at the moment. I am really looking forward to being part of this year's novice bunch. Last year the support and advice on the thread was amazing so hoping that we can recreate some of that again this year. AND a big thank you to nop98 for taking on the task of mentoring us all 0 -
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banana_split wrote: »Yay! I've been keeping an eye out for this thread after secretly stalking it last year thinking 'I'd love to do that'. This is the year!
So, this will be my first marathon - currently in the excited but crazy nervous stage!
I really only started running last year and have definitely caught the bug!
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
I've done a few 10 km races (embarrassingly slow PB of 59 mins) and did 2 half marathons last year (PB of 2 hrs 20 mins)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
In my longer runs, I do tend to take short walking breaks
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I'm currently doing some sort of training every day. I generally run 3 times a week (5-10km each), do weight training 3 days a week, and swim one day a week (find it great for easing tired muscles). I know as I increase mileage I'll need to drop a few days to recover properly but I'm going ok so far.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I'd like to finish in under 4hrs 30, but I'm not sure if it's that realistic! Only time will tell.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
As per above, I'm doing some form of training every day at the moment, but will reduce this in the coming months. I'll be following a (very!) beginners training plan.
Why are you running this marathon?
I love to challenge myself and now that I'm finally fit again after dropping my former couch potato habits, this seems like a good goal to aim for. Also, I'm told that the Dublin marathon is a great atmosphere so can't wait to get out there and enjoy (?!) it!!
Hi banana_split - welcome! You have the honor of being the very first 2016 Novice!
Glad you see you enjoyed last year's thread. I was similarly following the 2014 class and found it very inspiring.
First of all, there are no embarrassingly slow PBs on this thread! Running a sub-hour 10km is nothing to be embarrassed about.
Second, delighted to see you're taking the cross-training to heart, with swimming and weights. I have little experience with weight training but I agree, swimming is great. However, as you point out yourself, the balance will have to change over the coming weeks and months. To prep for the training plan to start, I'd move to at least 4 times running a week, and you will have to include a rest-day, too. So much to do, so little time As the plan progresses, you'll probably want to reduce the cross-training even more. Dubgal used to say: "easy days easy!" and cross-training is not meant to be a hard day.
I used to cross-train twice a week (pilates and circuits) - loved them both. But I dropped the circuits soon into the cycle (it was too hard!).
As for training plan, it sounds that the HHN1 plan is something that might appeal to you. Have a look!
Delighted to have you onboard!0 -
Have been keeping an eye out for this thread and am hoping that this year is the year that I start, finish (and most importantly) enjoy a marathon.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yes, although never a marathon.
5k Clane March 2016 PB 26:34
1 Mile ALSSA Track Feb 2016 8:31 (had never run a timed mile before and it's a bit of a soft PB)
1/2 Marathon Waterford Viking June 2015 2:10:43 PB - did the same race the year before in 2:23:05
Have also raced 10k and 5 mile but both distances so long ago that not sure how relevant the times are.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
Generally no, not unless I am doing intervals or something and the recovery can be walked or jogged.
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
A few weeks ago the answer was 3 - 4 runs including some speedy (for me) work and an LSR. Along with at least once every two weeks a long walk (approx 30k), a little swimming, occasional pilates classes and sometimes I cycle as the quickest way to get from A to B. Last few weeks have been bad, real life and crap and stress and deadlines got in the way and then last week was floored with some stupid bug probably because of the stress and lack of exercise. Still not 100 per cent so focus for this week is to get well, and slowly throw in a few runs. BF is doing a C25K programme so might go out with him to ease myself back into it.
Between now and start of June plan is to increase millage slowly, and also keep up with the long walks because first two weeks of June I am doing the Camino (section of Portuguese Way from Lisbon to Porto) which will involve 13 days of walking c. 30k a day. Know its not running but surely some of the same muscle fibers will be engaged? When I get back the focus will be on running and ancillary stuff that keeps me fit for running (like pilates and gentle swimming).
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Primary Goal: Get to the start line in one piece, enjoy the experience on 30 October - time doesn't matter.
Gosh wouldn't it be great Goal: Finish (and enjoy) in <4:29:59
Flipping Heck I can Dream Goal: Finish (and enjoy) in <4:14:59
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Once the Camino is out of the way, I can train 5 - 6 days a week. I know from experience that I need a proper full rest day in each week, or at the very least in each 10 day cycle.
Plan to follow the Boards Plan, the other one just looks really dull and I think I would get bored.
Why are you running this marathon?
Why not? :rolleyes:
More seriously though, I hurt my back about 10 years ago and could barely walk, let alone run or cycle or take part in any sports. Lots and lots and lots of pain, tears, physio and stubbornness later, I can do this stuff again and I do not want to take it for granted. I still regularly get a thrill out of just being able to run. I also like to challenge myself, and a marathon is certainly a challenge.
I am also doing a PhD and promised myself that during the four years, I would do a marathon as a way of keeping a balance between mind and body.
So that is me, I also have a log although its probably got a bit of dust on it at the moment. I am really looking forward to being part of this year's novice bunch. Last year the support and advice on the thread was amazing so hoping that we can recreate some of that again this year. AND a big thank you to nop98 for taking on the task of mentoring us all
Hi spaceylou, and welcome on board! I like your views on the goals for the day.
Wow - 13x30km of walking (and probably in quite hot weather, too), that's quite the challenge. Good luck with it!
Two points of feedback. First of all, make sure you're fully recovered before resuming your training. Starting back too early, will likely come back to bite you, in terms of a relapse or simply not effective and enjoyable training. Taking an extra day won't hurt in the long run, frustrating as it might be at the time.
Second, I'm glad the boards plan appeals to you, and it's probably suitable if challenging. But since you won't be doing much running in the weeks leading up to the start, you might find it a tough start. The mileage ramps up in the first few weeks, with HM sized long runs from week 3-4 onwards. It might be an idea to get to the level of the first 1-2 weeks before you embark on your Portuguese adventure, and then ease back in afterwards.
But first things first - I hope you feel better soon! Delighted to have you onboard.0 -
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This seems like a great resource, thanks for all your effort everyone. I come from a family of avid runners, I'm the youngest and my place for two decades was on the sidelines, the asthmatic 5 foot nothing midget handing out bananas and energy drinks to my siblings and father. A few years ago my unfit, midget mother decided to ditch the sideline and sign up for races herself, I quickly followed, but with a lot less dedication. I signed up for DCM on race day last year, and am still unsure about whether or not I'll be up for it...I enjoy half marathons and 10 milers (shout out to Ballycotton) but I have to work hard to bridge the gap to the 26.2.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I have ran two half marathons before - Clontarf was my fastest (for want of a better word ) in 2.27.03. PB for 5k is in and around 30 mins. I've also run 4 10 milers, and a rake of BHAA races but I don't know PBs, I'm not so into times.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Ehhh
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Finish, just finish.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Three, if I commit to more at this stage I'm setting myself up for failure. I work shifts and find it hard to get any consistency going in a plan - I think Hal Higdon's plan is more realistic for me.
Why are you running this marathon?
Because I am done with being on the sideline.0 -
Best of luck to everyone giving it a go for the first time this year - you're in for a lot of fun over the next few months! Enjoy it, you only train for and run one first marathon (even if my next one is going to feel like my first again...) 0
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Pomplamousse wrote: »Delighted to see this thread up & running. I came across the 2015 novice thread last year while training for my first half marathon & briefly considered running the 2015 DCM. Quickly realised that was never going to happen so hopefully this is my year. I've been running on & off for a few years (more off than on) but it's only really the past year that I've kept it up consistently.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Haven't done a huge number of races. PBs are as follows:
-5km, 22:48, May 2015 (this was a Marlay parkrun, if they even count as races).
-Half marathon, 1:56:34, August 2015 (last few kms were disastrous, I vomited twice (on myself:o) but pushed myself to finish below 2hrs. I sat down a few minutes after crossing the finish line, realised I could barely walk when I stood up & had to take a good month off running).
-10km, 51:22, November 2015.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
Nope
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Since last October I've been slowly building up my distance. I found during training for last year's half marathon that after the long runs, my legs would be really really sore afterwards & for the rest of the day. In hindsight, I probably took on too much too soon.
I've been alternating running either 3 or 4 times per week. The weeks with 3 runs have included threshold runs, hills & long slow runs whereas the weeks with 4 runs have been at a slower more even pace. I've definitely improved in terms of leg soreness, I ran 11 miles last Saturday morning & legs were fine for the rest of the day.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Dream time would be under 4hrs but realistically, under 4hr30mins. I'll see how training goes I guess, even just finishing it might be more realistic.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I'd rather not run more than 4 times a week, but if 5 times is strongly advised in a few months time I may consider it. I haven't fully decided what plan to follow yet. I was half considering Hal Higdon Novice 2 as I'm not sure if Hal Higdon novice 1 would be a bit of a step-back for me in terms of mileage (over the past month or two I've had a few weeks where I've run around or just above 30 miles). Happy to take on board any advice on this:)
Why are you running this marathon?
Personal achievement. I decided to make 2016 a year for challenging myself & ticking off as many of my bucket list things as possible.
Really excited to be a part of this, and thanks so much nop98 for taking on the mentoring role:)
Hey Pomplamousse, welcome on board. Well done on a good PB over 5k, and of course parkrun PBs count and I am still trying to ban the mental image of you finishing that HM!
HHN1 will indeed be a step back - I agree. You're of course welcome to follow any plan - but can I encourage you to look at the boards plan?
Your 5k PB and tough-as-nails approach to completing a sub 2h HM suggests plenty of ability and mental strength. But your weak point seems to be endurance. It sounds to be you need to slowly, slowly, slowly build up your endurance base more. But beware, being sore after completing LSRs is a warning sign, you're probably running them too fast. Glad to hear your last 11 miler went without soreness.
Running your training runs at the right pace is the hardest thing for novice marathoners. Last year, Dubgal hammered on it all the time. Most of your runs, and definitely your LSR will need to be 15-20% slower than your planned marathon pace. A 4-hour marathon is 9:09 min/mi, so add 20% to that to get an idea.
My advice would be to start monitoring your pace right now.. It's harder than you think - but it will be very worthwhile once the long runs gets longer and longer.
Welcome on board!0 -
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Mods, can this thread be given a sticky? For those of us with no interest in this long term thread, it would be better to have it permanently at the top of the main forum, rather than bouncing up and down the main forum at an alarming rate for the next 6 months. Kind of annoying let's be honest. 0
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Chivito550 wrote: »Mods, can this thread be given a sticky? For those of us with no interest in this long term thread, it would be better to have it permanently at the top of the main forum, rather than bouncing up and down the main forum at an alarming rate for the next 6 months. Kind of annoying let's be honest.
You can always ignore it.0 -
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Partyjungle Quote
I run mostly for mental health reasons and I need an excuse to get running more regularly. If I ever feel like **** for no good reason, I go for a run and feel great after sweating out whatever nonsense had me down. I often can't find the motivation though.
Think you will find that you are in very good company here and its a chance to develop a more permanent working structure to facilitate physical exercise as a satisfying part of your life.
Course it wont always feel like that during the marathon itself
Enjoy the experience.0 -
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