RAILWAY PRESERVATION

topnotch · 07-10-2016 07:11PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

The only reason that we won't see preserved diesel tours on the mainline in the near future is high insurance costs and bums on seats. Could be got around of course with a bit of thinking outside the box, but there's no will in CIE to do that.

They managed to crash 146 between the buffers and the door of the shed, I'm sure the insurance would be kind of high. But ''twas alright she was riddled with rust.

end of the road · 07-10-2016 07:15PM

railer201 wrote: »

That's very interesting indeed !

i think he might be referring to the scrap yard (sorry i mean stored stock) . plenty of 201s, a couple of mk4s, the 8200s and possibly more, all preserved for the nation!!!!!

hurricanemk1c · 07-10-2016 07:25PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

You may not have noticed, 071s are part of CIE's fleet and anybody can hire one to haul a special - even the IRRS manage it.

Only IE, NIR, Belmond, Balfour Beatty and the RPSI can charter locos as they are Railway Undertakings (RUs). Anybody else has to go through them

Del.Monte · 07-10-2016 07:26PM

topnotch wrote: »

They managed to crash 146 between the buffers and the door of the shed, I'm sure the insurance would be kind of high. But ''twas alright she was riddled with rust.

Not that the above has anything do with the topic it but CIE & NIR have had plenty of minor incidents down the years. Why such an axe to grind with Downpatrick?

GM228 · 07-10-2016 07:37PM

hurricanemk1c wrote: »

Only IE, NIR, Belmond, Balfour Beatty and the RPSI can charter locos as they are Railway Undertakings (RUs). Anybody else has to go through them

Any person or company can charter a loco or train, only an undertaking can operate their own stock or under their own licence, there's a difference. Chartering and operating are different.

RU status and the associated safety certification is only required to run your own stock as a seperate enterprise.

topnotch · 07-10-2016 07:53PM

Either way it's going to be an IE driver at the controls.

Grandeeod · 07-10-2016 09:09PM

Seven pages in and I'm getting a real insight into why nothing really happens.

As for Stradbally, Del Monte was correct and there really is no need to be offended. As for the WSVR, its working because its commercial in its approach. Personally I liked it because it gave me a chance to travel over a closed line regardless of guage or stock. The general public enjoy it for what it is, a train ride with seasonal attractions such as Halloween and Christmas. Even the RPSI get that much too.

I think Downpatrick is great. Small, but at least accessible and has a varied assortment of stuff running on actual track.

I'm sensing that there is a disconnect between those interested in preservation and this disconnect is spread across mainline running, preserved lines and authenticity.

topnotch · 07-10-2016 09:57PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Seven pages in and I'm getting a real insight into why nothing really happens.

As for Stradbally, Del Monte was correct and there really is no need to be offended. As for the WSVR, its working because its commercial in its approach. Personally I liked it because it gave me a chance to travel over a closed line regardless of guage or stock. The general public enjoy it for what it is, a train ride with seasonal attractions such as Halloween and Christmas. Even the RPSI get that much too.

I think Downpatrick is great. Small, but at least accessible and has a varied assortment of stuff running on actual track.

I'm sensing that there is a disconnect between those interested in preservation and this disconnect is spread across mainline running, preserved lines and authenticity.

There is a big difference between seeing a loco in a museum on a small 2.5mile preserved line and on the main line. For me it's akin to seeing an animal stuffed in the zoo or in the wild.

Grandeeod · 07-10-2016 10:19PM

topnotch wrote: »

There is a big difference between seeing a loco in a museum on a small 2.5mile preserved line and on the main line. For me it's akin to seeing an animal stuffed in the zoo or in the wild.

So you are part of the disconnect. Welcome to the party!

me_right_one · 07-10-2016 11:23PM

topnotch wrote: »

There is a big difference between seeing a loco in a museum on a small 2.5mile preserved line and on the main line. For me it's akin to seeing an animal stuffed in the zoo or in the wild.

But thats not "preservation", thats "re-activation". The minister for transport is the one with whom you have a bone to pick if you feel there's not enough re-activation, not your fellow enthusiasts.

whisky_galore · 08-10-2016 06:21AM

me_right_one wrote: »

But thats not "preservation", thats "re-activation". The minister for transport is the one with whom you have a bone to pick if you feel there's not enough re-activation, not your fellow enthusiasts.

Seriously?
Museum pieces are not his remit.

Del.Monte · 08-10-2016 08:24AM

topnotch wrote: »

There is a big difference between seeing a loco in a museum on a small 2.5mile preserved line and on the main line. For me it's akin to seeing an animal stuffed in the zoo or in the wild.

Would it be too much to ask what you have done towards the preservation of anything rail related and mainline diesel locomotives in particular? You must have been heavily involved given your belligerent attitude.

GM228 · 08-10-2016 11:22AM

topnotch wrote: »

There is a big difference between seeing a loco in a museum on a small 2.5mile preserved line and on the main line. For me it's akin to seeing an animal stuffed in the zoo or in the wild.

There is also a big difference between seeing a loco or other item in person in a museum or seeing it on an old piece of film or a photograph because it no longer exists.

Sometimes it's only thanks to museums or zoos that things survice at all. There are many animal species in zoos accross the world that would be completely extinct if it were not for the zoos efforts, the same way many pieces of rolling stock or other historical items would no longer exist it it was not for the museums.

I would love to go to a museum and see CC1 or go to the zoo and see a Tasmanian tiger, but unfortunately a Google search is the only place for me to see those now.

savagethegoat · 08-10-2016 01:59PM

GM228 wrote: »

There is also a big difference between seeing a loco or other item in person in a museum or seeing it on an old piece of film or a photograph because it no longer exists.

Sometimes it's only thanks to museums or zoos that things survice at all. There are many animal species in zoos accross the world that would be completely extinct if it were not for the zoos efforts, the same way many pieces of rolling stock or other historical items would no longer exist it it was not for the museums.

I would love to go to a museum and see CC1 or go to the zoo and see a Tasmanian tiger, but unfortunately a Google search is the only place for me to see those now.

absolutely and Downpatrick is a fine place to see them...

topnotch · 09-10-2016 12:19PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

Would it be too much to ask what you have done towards the preservation of anything rail related and mainline diesel locomotives in particular? You must have been heavily involved given your belligerent attitude.

I'll give you a full rundown on the RPSI special on the 22nd. The €75 might be beyond your budget though.

Del.Monte · 09-10-2016 12:31PM

topnotch wrote: »

I'll give you a full rundown on the RPSI special on the 22nd. The €75 might be beyond your budget though.

What sort of smart arse answer is that to a perfectly straight forward question; you're just making a complete fool of yourself?

BuffyBot · 09-10-2016 12:49PM

Can we all take a moment to refresh ourselves on the rules in the forum

Most importantly, be civil. If you disagree with someone, attack the post, not the poster. If you have a problem with a post, report it: don't respond on thread.

If you're going to make a claim, ensure you can back it up with verifiable facts

savagethegoat · 09-10-2016 01:15PM

well I'll be headed to Downpatrick again next year even though it's a long spin from Cork. It's pretty much all we have that represents real preservation, the only attempt to portray what it used to be like way back when (RPSI mainline activities excepted).

Remember that everything you see there has been created from a brownfield site, even the station itself did start out as that, although you'd never know.

railer201 · 09-10-2016 02:00PM

Downpatrick is the subject of a BBC documentary entitled 'Raising Steam' - Someone who has the BBC player may be able to access it.

The station building as I understand it was previously the town's gasworks building which was dismantled brick by brick and rebuilt on its present site .

Without a doubt Downpatrick does recreate the atmosphere of railway yesteryear complete with the whiff of steam - well worth the visit for anyone who hasn't been.

topnotch · 09-10-2016 03:33PM

railer201 wrote: »

Without a doubt Downpatrick does recreate the atmosphere of railway yesteryear complete with the whiff of steam - well worth the visit for anyone who hasn't been.

If by yesteryear you mean trains run slow and not on schedule, then it does a wonderful job. I can't see it amounting to anything other than a loco graveyard when it doesn't have a mainline connection or at least a decent amount of track.

The RPSI are the only ones I'll be supporting for the time being. Whether or not they will run trips behind a 141 class only time will tell but they have some chance of raising the required funds to restore diesel locos if the demand is there.

savagethegoat · 09-10-2016 03:45PM

it's ironic that the Republic's two leading railways (Stradbally and Suir Valley) are top of the league when lines on original trackbeds of ng railways (Dromod, Moyasta and Blennerville) are down in the relegation zone , even though Blennerville and Moyasta have original locos (Moyastsa's even works).

Not much of a list for the whole Republic is it?

railer201 · 09-10-2016 04:25PM

If by yesteryear you mean trains run slow and not on schedule, then it does a wonderful job. I can't see it amounting to anything other than a loco graveyard when it doesn't have a mainline connection or at least a decent amount of track.

The RPSI are the only ones I'll be supporting for the time being. Whether or not they will run trips behind a 141 class only time will tell but they have some chance of raising the required funds to restore diesel locos if the demand is there.

As I stated previously Downpatrick is self-contained whereas on the forthcoming trip you've mentioned the only preserved bit is the carriages you're travelling in, probably the Cravens and they're not that old in railway terms. Locomotive and track belong to IE and so there's really not that much more than a good old bash behind a 071 - but hey that's ok too.

Downpatrick have plans to expand its track according to one of the founder members I was talking too recently - but referencing my UK source for preserved railways, 2.5 miles is quite a respectable length of track - remember this is all the hands on product of volunteers.

Nibs05 · 09-10-2016 04:40PM

topnotch wrote: »

Sadly the RPSI are the only ones left capable of preserving something capable of running on the main line. The British Traction Group (ITG) did a royal job of pissing off Irish Rail over the years.

It will be interesting to see how many fork out €75 for the upcoming jaunt over the WRC. They might be able to iron a few tablecloths for that price.

Sorry ? How would you know ? Irish rail was helpful to the ITG during the inchicore days considering there was only 2-5 volunteers based there.

topnotch · 09-10-2016 05:18PM

railer201 wrote: »

As I stated previously Downpatrick is self-contained whereas on the forthcoming trip you've mentioned the only preserved bit is the carriages you're travelling in, probably the Cravens and they're not that old in railway terms. Locomotive and track belong to IE and so there's really not that much more than a good old bash behind a 071 - but hey that's ok too.

Downpatrick have plans to expand its track according to one of the founder members I was talking too recently - but referencing my UK source for preserved railways, 2.5 miles is quite a respectable length of track - remember this is all the hands on product of volunteers.

Fair enough it's primarily an enjoyable bash, but some of the funds collected will hopefully go towards enabling the RPSI to continue locomotive preservation.

The line from Ennis to Athenry was recently restored (by the state) as you are aware, so for me this is one of the highlights of the trip.

I would hope and expect that an 071 class loco will be preserved in the future. They are still a vital working part of the IE fleet at the moment.

topnotch · 09-10-2016 05:25PM

Nibs05 wrote: »

Sorry ? How would you know ? Irish rail was helpful to the ITG during the inchicore days considering there was only 2-5 volunteers based there.

I can only go by what I was reliably told by someone in a position at Irish rail that was dealing with them.

Nibs05 · 09-10-2016 05:39PM

topnotch wrote: »

I can only go by what I was reliably told by someone in a position at Irish rail that was dealing with them.

So you yourself have no clue what you are talking about, as for me who was a volunteer with the ITG I can say that we have done the best we could, we worked hard every Saturday to get A39 to the way it is now (with support from Irish rail employees) how can the ITG do more when there is a lack of volunteers and funds in this country.
I found your posts insulting and degrading and it's not fair on the people who spend there own time working away at different projects across the country.
Downpatrick is a great success and sees trains full through the summer and on special occasions. It's run by people who are passionate about railways and care about preserving for the future, again it is what it is due to lack of volunteers and funds.

BeardySi · 09-10-2016 06:12PM

This thread is basically a microcosm of everything that's wrong with preservation in Ireland... Tribalism, elitism, snobbery and sneering at the other lot's efforts. It's quite pathetic really.

The fact is there are quite a few folks going out on weekdays and weekends, giving up their time and sweat, grafting to keep the few wee railways we have running. Through their efforts we have three mainline steam locos running and more under restoration, a number of standard and narrow gauge steam locos regularly running around the country, historic diesels saved from the cutting torch - some running, some under restoration and some in storage, not to mention all the other rolling stock. If they don't fit your idea of "preservation" so be it, feel free not to visit them, ride on them or enjoy looking at photos of them, but to put down the efforts of the people who've worked hard to keep them running and save them from being scrap or from rusting away in a yard somethere is just not on.

Every preservation effort out there could be better given unlimited money and hordes of volunteers, but they operate in a real world of tight budgets and manpower shortages. Stradbally and the DCDR have both done a fantastic job of both running and being visible while doing so and deserve a bit of credit from the purists.

topnotch · 09-10-2016 08:07PM

Nibs05 wrote: »

So you yourself have no clue what you are talking about, as for me who was a volunteer with the ITG I can say that we have done the best we could, we worked hard every Saturday to get A39 to the way it is now (with support from Irish rail employees) how can the ITG do more when there is a lack of volunteers and funds in this country.
I found your posts insulting and degrading and it's not fair on the people who spend there own time working away at different projects across the country.
Downpatrick is a great success and sees trains full through the summer and on special occasions. It's run by people who are passionate about railways and care about preserving for the future, again it is what it is due to lack of volunteers and funds.

Sadly A39 will never see the mainline again. I find it hard to believe that the trains are as full as you make out in Downpatrick. I look forward to hearing the plans for extending the line.

savagethegoat · 09-10-2016 08:16PM

topnotch wrote: »

Sadly A39 will never see the mainline again. I find it hard to believe that the trains are as full as you make out in Downpatrick. I look forward to hearing the plans for extending the line.

does that matter as long as it works and it's safe? I find it hard to believe you really are a diesel fan if it's "Main line or nothing" with you.

It's great to see them even if parked out of use with a tarp over them.

topnotch · 09-10-2016 08:27PM

savagethegoat wrote: »

does that matter as long as it works and it's safe? I find it hard to believe you really are a diesel fan if it's "Main line or nothing" with you.

It's great to see them even if parked out of use with a tarp over them.

Most of the ITG's money has been wasted hiring low loaders. I'm not sure how you can say safe after what happened to 146.

RAILWAY PRESERVATION

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