The Academies

funtime93 · 29-09-2016 01:33PM

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I was told Lamour and someone else went straight in late but can't remember who the second person was. Could well be Jack Kelly.

Sub academy more than likely. Leinster don't take lads into the academy straight from school anymore.

brockboy02 · 29-09-2016 02:20PM

Larmour & Kelly would automatically be in sub academy.. they are two standout talents in this age group

It's possible they got added to the academy after the interpros, unlikely but possible

brockboy02 · 05-10-2016 10:18AM

Might be an extreme move but I would cut the following players from the leinster academy at the end of the season: Oisin Heffernan, Sean McNulty, David O'Connor & Ian Fitzpatrick.

D14Rugby · 05-10-2016 02:34PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

Might be an extreme move but I would cut the following players from the leinster academy at the end of the season: Oisin Heffernan, Sean McNulty, David O'Connor & Ian Fitzpatrick.

Why those players? Heffernan in particular has been in leinster senior squads so you'd guess he's rated highly enough

brockboy02 · 05-10-2016 02:43PM

Don't really rate them based on their performances.

Heffernan has struggled at AIL level and is now behind Loughman.
McNulty is a fundamentally sound player, but isn't aggressive enough.
O'Connor is simply too small to be a professional lock.
Fitzpatrick hasn't shown much of anything in his 2+ years in the academy, and leinster have better younger players coming through.

I'd add Billy Dardis to this list from the senior squad and probably Tom Daly too given their lack of impact on the senior squad.

D14Rugby · 05-10-2016 05:54PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

Don't really rate them based on their performances.

Heffernan has struggled at AIL level and is now behind Loughman.
McNulty is a fundamentally sound player, but isn't aggressive enough.
O'Connor is simply too small to be a professional lock.
Fitzpatrick hasn't shown much of anything in his 2+ years in the academy, and leinster have better younger players coming through.

I'd add Billy Dardis to this list from the senior squad and probably Tom Daly too given their lack of impact on the senior squad.

I think Heffernan is doing quite well in AIL. Terenure never gonna dominate scrum with their pack size which might make his strumming look bad but he has done quite well I think. McNulty I think aggression could help but shouldn't really be a deciding factor. Other two I've not seen much of.
Davis has been injured a lot the last few seasons so I'd say judge him after an injury free spell. Daly is a good player I think but yeah he does need to be either given a break or let go.

brockboy02 · 06-10-2016 12:29PM

Aggression is a huge factor when it comes to front row and forward play, McNulty is a big hooker but rarely plays upto his size. Lacks the dog required to be a top level pro forward/front row.

Same applies to Heffernan for me, in regards aggression/physicality and he has often struggled in the scrum for Leinster A and Terenure.

Dardis is living off his schools hype, he hasn't done much in the AIL or for Leinster A to suggest he is good enough.

All the players I listed have until the end of the season, but on their current trajectories I'd release them all.

Tarf1234 · 06-10-2016 12:52PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

Aggression is a huge factor when it comes to front row and forward play, McNulty is a big hooker but rarely plays upto his size. Lacks the dog required to be a top level pro forward/front row.

Same applies to Heffernan for me, in regards aggression/physicality and he has often struggled in the scrum for Leinster A and Terenure.

Dardis is living off his schools hype, he hasn't done much in the AIL or for Leinster A to suggest he is good enough.

All the players I listed have until the end of the season, but on their current trajectories I'd release them all.

Have to say while it may be slightly harsh it is very difficult to argue on any of your points. Have seen Dardis a few times since he left school and was never left thinking he was anything spectacular. McNulty is the only one I'd say should be kept on. He's not going to cost much and hookers can develop later.

Daly while I am a big fan of him he really needs to get a chance and make the step up, if not then I'd be with you.

brockboy02 · 06-10-2016 12:58PM

Agreed on Daly, I am a fan but if he can't make the breakthrough this season then he is better of elsewhere.

I might be being a bit too harsh on McNulty, but i'm pretty unconvinced by him at the moment obviously.

Dardis, Fitzpatrick need to show something post injury.

And O'Connor is simply too small at lock.

Not sure Peadar Timmins is good enough to get a dev deal either, but it depends on what senior backrows leave this year. Deegan should be fast tracked ahead of him at 8 anyway. Timmins is playing the wrong position for me, but i's too late now for him to move.

James Ryan/Andrew Porter/Joey Carbery will get early promotions, maybe Max Deegan too, while Rory O'Loughlin/Nick McCarthy/Ross Byrne should all graduate to the senior team too.

If it was upto me the academy would look something like this next season:

Prop
Jeremy Loughman(Year 3/UCD)
Vakh Albadaze(Year 1/Clontarf)

Hooker
Sean McNulty(Year 3/UCD)
Tadgh McElroy(Year 1/Lansdowne)
Conor Maguire(Year 1/Old Wesley)

Lock
Jack Regan(Year 1/UCD)
Oisin Dowling(Year 1/Lansdowne)

Backrow
Josh Murphy(Year 3/UCD)
Will Connors(Year 2/UCD)
Caelan Doris(Year 1/St. Marys)

Scrumhalf
Charlie Rock(Year 3/Old Belvo)

Outhalf
Conor Dean(Year 1/St. Marys)
Ciaran Frawley(Year 1/UCD)

Centre
Jimmy O'Brien(Year 2/UCD)
Conor O'Brien(Year 2/Clontarf)
Gavin Mullin(Year 1/UCD)

Back Three
Jack Power(Year 2/Clontarf)
Hugo Keenan(Year 2/UCD)
Terry Kennedy(Year 2/St. Marys)
Jack Kelly(Year 1/DUFC)
Jordan Larmour(Year 1/St. Marys)

shaungil · 06-10-2016 01:19PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

Don't really rate them based on their performances.

Heffernan has struggled at AIL level and is now behind Loughman.
McNulty is a fundamentally sound player, but isn't aggressive enough.
O'Connor is simply too small to be a professional lock.
Fitzpatrick hasn't shown much of anything in his 2+ years in the academy, and leinster have better younger players coming through.

I'd add Billy Dardis to this list from the senior squad and probably Tom Daly too given their lack of impact on the senior squad.

whathappened to the last O'Connor Leinster let go cos was simply to small to be a professional lock.

brockboy02 · 06-10-2016 01:26PM

Alan is 6'5, Dave is at a stretch 6'4, but more like 6'3.

Dave would be better off at this stage trying to move to 6.

Tarf1234 · 06-10-2016 01:41PM

Agree on DOC you can't be 6'3 in the 2nd row. Saw him recently and no way he is taller then that.

would agree on most of your previous list and comments. Timmins is definitely a 6. I'd keep him on though if it was my choice. I could see Josh Murphy not lasting too long either. If the plan is to move him on I'd like to see Tom De Jongh get a look in.

brockboy02 · 06-10-2016 01:47PM

I think Timmins should be playing hooker, he isn't a leinster level backrow in terms of athleticism or size. He is a very good rugby player, but obviously it's too late for him to move to hooker, that should have happened years ago IMO. He may get a dev deal next season, for backrow bodies, but it really depends on what senior backrows leave. If only NcNulty was as aggressive and tough..

I'd have more hopes for Murphy, who is natural 6, although a bit light. He won't wow you but he does all the basics very well, ala Kev Mc. He probably gets the three years in the academy, will he progress to being a leinster 1st choice BR, probably not. Can't see him being released early but I could be wrong.

Tom De Jongh is interesting, he has to play 7 at pro level IMO. But I guess it will depend on Will Connors progresses this season along with De Jonghs own season aswell as how him skipping the interpros is recieved by the academy higher ups. Connors could end up at 6 though. I can't rule out Barry Fitzpatrick right now either as a potential academy player.

Caelan Doris is the only underage backrow right now, who I think will be an automatic addition to the academy. As either a 6 or an 8, probably a 6 long term.

Can't see Paul Boyle or Jonny Guy making the academy, due to size, lack of athleticism and lack of position versatility.

kingofthekong · 06-10-2016 06:34PM

Dave O'connors future is at 6 , hes been crippled by injury last few seasons and is currently struggling with a hip injury. For those reasons and his potential at 6 I wouldnt release him, its not like hes been given the opportunity and been shown to not be good enough he hasnt been injury free long enough to properly asses.
Mcnulty is far too soft for his size and unless he changes his approach would get eaten alive by more aggressive opposition.
Timmins I dont think will ever be big or athletic enough to make it as a backrow at Leinster.
I hope Porter, Loughman, Ryan and Deegan are fast tracked (not rushed) into the senior set up and not left to go stale and stagnant in the Academy for the next few years as we see with so many promising talents.

D14Rugby · 06-10-2016 07:09PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

Aggression is a huge factor when it comes to front row and forward play, McNulty is a big hooker but rarely plays upto his size. Lacks the dog required to be a top level pro forward/front row.

Same applies to Heffernan for me, in regards aggression/physicality and he has often struggled in the scrum for Leinster A and Terenure.

Dardis is living off his schools hype, he hasn't done much in the AIL or for Leinster A to suggest he is good enough.

All the players I listed have until the end of the season, but on their current trajectories I'd release them all.

Yeah I'd agree with you there on McNulty still think he could prove himself this year. Don't agree on Heffernan but can see where you're coming from. Dardis and Daly I think are two very good players in positions that we don't exactly have tons of talent in. Davis hasn't really had a run of games since school but I'd keep him on until the end of next season at least and judge him after a good run of games

brockboy02 · 07-10-2016 08:47AM

Who is Davis?

David O'Connor? Not sure where the crippled from injury line is coming from. He has only really been injured this season, he is too small to be a modern day professional lock, it's that simple.

If Dardis/Daly were as talented as some say they would have played for Leinster at this stage, as there is a need for talented backs, the fact that they haven't says a lot.

kingofthekong · 07-10-2016 12:12PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

Who is Davis?

David O'Connor? Not sure where the crippled from injury line is coming from. He has only really been injured this season, he is too small to be a modern day professional lock, it's that simple.

If Dardis/Daly were as talented as some say they would have played for Leinster at this stage, as there is a need for talented backs, the fact that they haven't says a lot.

I know the guy... he' been playing with niggly injuries last few seasons which has been inhibiting him, no one is disagreeing that hes too small for lock?? , he must convert to 6 if he wants to progress everyone agrees on this... he played at 6 for many games through school but was placed in the second row due to players around him either being too small or not good enough for lock

brockboy02 · 07-10-2016 12:30PM

Fair enough of the niggly injuries, but I'd say that could be applied to nearly everyone.
He hasn't missed significant time bar this season.

I think he is a good rugby player and would make a good 6, just can't see it happening at Leinster.

Stainalert · 07-10-2016 12:36PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

Who is Davis?

David O'Connor? Not sure where the crippled from injury line is coming from. He has only really been injured this season, he is too small to be a modern day professional lock, it's that simple.

If Dardis/Daly were as talented as some say they would have played for Leinster at this stage, as there is a need for talented backs, the fact that they haven't says a lot.

Dardis has missed a huge amount of time due to injury

brockboy02 · 07-10-2016 12:42PM

I know Dardis has, but when he has been healthy he hasn't really impressed. If he does post this injury then maybe keep him on, but right now, he is living off his schools rep.

kingofthekong · 07-10-2016 01:00PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

Fair enough of the niggly injuries, but I'd say that could be applied to nearly everyone.
He hasn't missed significant time bar this season.

I think he is a good rugby player and would make a good 6, just can't see it happening at Leinster.

All players carry injuries I know, but with him its a significantly bad hip injury that keeps flaring up, its extremely hard to have a good pre season and effective pre season gym and conditioning sessions when you've a hip injury which keeps flaring up.
He is an extremely aggressive player in the tackle and rucking area of the game and I could see him being used very effectively in the future but I agree theres so many players ahead of him at Leinster he'd be better off with a move to Ulster with his brother.

Stainalert · 07-10-2016 01:10PM

brockboy02 wrote: »

I know Dardis has, but when he has been healthy he hasn't really impressed. If he does post this injury then maybe keep him on, but right now, he is living off his schools rep.

He has been very impressive whenever playing with UCD - injuries have definitely denied him an opportunity to see what he can do at a higher level

brockboy02 · 07-10-2016 01:14PM

Well hopefully Dardis can impress when he returns from injury.

On David O'Connor, i'm not saying he isn't a good player, I think he is, just can't see him making it at leinster as a 6. But stranger things have happened. He has no hope at lock due to his size.

The Lost Sheep · 17-01-2017 09:13PM

Just looking at a few things and what was mentioned in other threads..
What would be best place to find academy lists from the beginning of the academies.
IRFU academy first and then when it split into the 4 provincial groups?

Murray15 · 14-02-2017 11:59AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Just looking at a few things and what was mentioned in other threads..
What would be best place to find academy lists from the beginning of the academies.
IRFU academy first and then when it split into the 4 provincial groups?

I saw lists way back on the Munster forum for both Munster and Leinster. Let me just look..

Murray15 · 14-02-2017 12:16PM

Munster Academy
Names of players and the first year they entered the academy.

06/07
(15) Keith Earls, Denis Hurley, Anthony Kavanagh, Mark Melbourne, Ross Noonan, Dave Ryan, Darragh Hurley, Evan Ryan, Tim Ryan,
Dave Sherry, Gary Walsh, Duncan Williams, Michael Essex, Tom Gleason, Billy Holland

07/08
(5) Stephen Archer, Scott Deasy, Murray Kinsella, Tommy O'Donnell, Paul Rowley,

08/09
(7) Andrew Burke, Kieran Essex, Dave Foley, Eoghan Grace, Conor Murray, Ian Nagle, Peter O'Mahony,

09/10
(5) Danny Barnes, Dave O'Callaghan, Brian O'Hara, Pa O'Regan, Mike Sherry

10/11
(11) Alan Cotter, JJ Hanrahan, Brian Hayes, Sean Henry, Corey Hircock, Dave Kilcoyne, Luke O'Dea, Ronan O'Mahony, Gareth Quinn-McDonagh, Cathal Sheridan, Simon Zebo

11/12
(6) Cian Bohane, Shane Buckley, Duncan Casey, James Cronin, Cathal O'Flaherty, Niall Scannell

12/13
(9) Philip Donnellan, Brian Haugh, Johnny Holland, Harry McNulty, Darren Moroney, Ryan Murphy, Jack O'Donoghue, James Rael, Darren Sweetnam

13/14
(10) Rory Burke, Jack Cullen, Niall Horan, David Johnston, Niall Kenneally, Gearoid Lyons, John Madigan, Sean McCarthy, Darren O'Shea, Rory Scannell,

14/15
(9) Max Abbott, Stephen Fitzgerald, Ryan Foley, Jamie Glynn, Dan Goggin, Darragh Moloney, Greg O'Shea, Brian Scott, Alex Wootton

15/16
(9) Ned Hodson, Bill Johnston, Ben Killkenny, Ollie Lyons, Steven McMahon, Liam O'Connor, Conor Oliver, JP Phelan, Tomas Quinlan

16/17
(7) Gavin Coombes, Shane Daly, John Foley, Calvin Nash, Vincent O'Brien, Sean O'Connor, Fineen Wycherley

Murray15 · 14-02-2017 12:17PM

Leinster

2008-2009
Royce Burke Flynn, Gary Foley, Jamie Hagan, Jason Harris Wright, Felix Jones, Dave Kearney, Conor McInerney, Ian McKinley, Shane Monahan, Dave Moore, Niall Morris, Ruaidhri Murphy, Paul O'Donohoe, James Power, Paul Ryan, Tom Sexton, Eamon Sheridan, Eoin Sheriff, Richard Sweeney, Kyle Tonetti

2009-2010
Andrew Conway, Mark Flanagan, Michael Keating, Brendan Macken, Ian Madigan, Stewart Maguire, Jack McGrath, Ciaran Ruddock, Rhys Ruddock, Dominic Ryan

2010-2011
Sam Coghlan-Murray, John Cooney, Darren Hudson, Ben Marshall, Jordi Murphy, Jack O'Connell, Noel Reid

2011-2012
Andrew Boyle, Jordan Coghlan, David Doyle, Tadhg Furlong, Conor Gilsenan, Luke McGrath, Marty Moore, Colm O'Shea, Mikey Sherlock, James Tracy

2012-2013
Tadhg Beirne, Bryan Byrne, Edward Byrne, Jack Conan, Dan Leavy, Cathal Marsh, Gavin Thornbury, Josh van der Flier

2013-2014
Adam Byrne, Steve Crosbie, Tom Daly, Billy Dardis, Peter Dooley, Tom Farrell, Ross Molony.

2014-2015
Harrison Brewer, Ross Byrne, Ian Fitzpatrick, Cian Kelleher, Nick McCarthy, Rory O'Loughlin, Garry Ringrose, Peadar Timmins.

2015-2016
Joey Carbery, Oisin Heffernan, Jeremy Loughman, Sean McNulty, Josh Murphy, David O'Connor, Charlie Rock.

2016-2017
James Ryan, Will Connors, Max Deegan, Hugo Keenan, Terry Kennedy, Conor O'Brien, Jimmy O'Brien, Andrew Porter, Jack Power, Jordan Larmour, Jack Kelly.

Quintis · 14-02-2017 01:26PM

Murray15 wrote: »

Munster Academy
Names of players and the first year they entered the academy.

06/07
(15) Keith Earls, Denis Hurley, Anthony Kavanagh, Mark Melbourne, Ross Noonan, Dave Ryan, Darragh Hurley, Evan Ryan, Tim Ryan,
Dave Sherry, Gary Walsh, Duncan Williams, Michael Essex, Tom Gleason, Billy Holland

07/08
(5) Stephen Archer, Scott Deasy, Murray Kinsella, Tommy O'Donnell, Paul Rowley,

08/09
(7) Andrew Burke, Kieran Essex, Dave Foley, Eoghan Grace, Conor Murray, Ian Nagle, Peter O'Mahony,

09/10
(5) Danny Barnes, Dave O'Callaghan, Brian O'Hara, Pa O'Regan, Mike Sherry

10/11
(11) Alan Cotter, JJ Hanrahan, Brian Hayes, Sean Henry, Corey Hircock, Dave Kilcoyne, Luke O'Dea, Ronan O'Mahony, Gareth Quinn-McDonagh, Cathal Sheridan, Simon Zebo

11/12
(6) Cian Bohane, Shane Buckley, Duncan Casey, James Cronin, Cathal O'Flaherty, Niall Scannell

12/13
(9) Philip Donnellan, Brian Haugh, Johnny Holland, Harry McNulty, Darren Moroney, Ryan Murphy, Jack O'Donoghue, James Rael, Darren Sweetnam

13/14
(10) Rory Burke, Jack Cullen, Niall Horan, David Johnston, Niall Kenneally, Gearoid Lyons, John Madigan, Sean McCarthy, Darren O'Shea, Rory Scannell,

14/15
(9) Max Abbott, Stephen Fitzgerald, Ryan Foley, Jamie Glynn, Dan Goggin, Darragh Moloney, Greg O'Shea, Brian Scott, Alex Wootton

15/16
(9) Ned Hodson, Bill Johnston, Ben Killkenny, Ollie Lyons, Steven McMahon, Liam O'Connor, Conor Oliver, JP Phelan, Tomas Quinlan

16/17
(7) Gavin Coombes, Shane Daly, John Foley, Calvin Nash, Vincent O'Brien, Sean O'Connor, Fineen Wycherley

Bold - Still with Munster on Senior contracts
Bold & Italics - Had a Munster Senior contract, now retired or playing elsewhere

Please correct anyone I missed, blurry eyed here

Quintis · 14-02-2017 01:37PM

Murray15 wrote: »

Leinster

2008-2009
Royce Burke Flynn, Gary Foley, Jamie Hagan, Jason Harris Wright, Felix Jones, Dave Kearney, Conor McInerney, Ian McKinley, Shane Monahan, Dave Moore, Niall Morris, Ruaidhri Murphy, Paul O'Donohoe, James Power, Paul Ryan, Tom Sexton, Eamon Sheridan, Eoin Sheriff, Richard Sweeney, Kyle Tonetti

2009-2010
Andrew Conway, Mark Flanagan, Michael Keating, Brendan Macken, Ian Madigan, Stewart Maguire, Jack McGrath, Ciaran Ruddock, Rhys Ruddock, Dominic Ryan

2010-2011
Sam Coghlan-Murray, John Cooney, Darren Hudson, Ben Marshall, Jordi Murphy, Jack O'Connell, Noel Reid

2011-2012
Andrew Boyle, Jordan Coghlan, David Doyle, Tadhg Furlong, Conor Gilsenan, Luke McGrath, Marty Moore, Colm O'Shea, Mikey Sherlock, James Tracy

2012-2013
Tadhg Beirne, Bryan Byrne, Edward Byrne, Jack Conan, Dan Leavy, Cathal Marsh, Gavin Thornbury, Josh van der Flier

2013-2014
Adam Byrne, Steve Crosbie, Tom Daly, Billy Dardis, Peter Dooley, Tom Farrell, Ross Molony

2014-2015
Harrison Brewer, Ross Byrne, Ian Fitzpatrick, Cian Kelleher, Nick McCarthy, Rory O'Loughlin, Garry Ringrose, Peadar Timmins.

2015-2016
Joey Carbery, Oisin Heffernan, Jeremy Loughman, Sean McNulty, Josh Murphy, David O'Connor, Charlie Rock.

2016-2017
James Ryan, Will Connors, Max Deegan, Hugo Keenan, Terry Kennedy, Conor O'Brien, Jimmy O'Brien, Andrew Porter, Jack Power, Jordan Larmour, Jack Kelly.

Bold - Still with Munster on Senior contracts
Bold & Italics - Had a Munster Senior contract, now retired or playing elsewhere

Please correct anyone I missed, still blurry eyed

The Lost Sheep · 14-02-2017 01:55PM

Quintis wrote: »

Bold - Still with Munster on Senior contracts
Bold & Italics - Had a Munster Senior contract, now retired or playing elsewhere

Please correct anyone I missed, blurry eyed here

Some who are embolded are not with Munster or contracted anywhere.

There is still IRFU academy players before the decentralisation into provincial academies and then does anyone have the Ulster/Connacht lists??

The Academies

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