Thread Spilt Recreational Runners and Joining Clubs

Chivito550 · 05-10-2016 07:52AM

Amadeus 2014 wrote: »

Wow, time for this debate again already!

dna pretty much nailed it by calling out that there are two different sports, though I'd split them slightly differently.

There is Road Racing. There is Track and Field. They have as much in common as Tag Rugby and Rugby.

In order to progress - and often even to compete - in Track and Field you must be in a club. They have the facilities, they have the coaching, they control entry to the events.

In order to take part - or compete - in Road Racing all you have to do is pay your entry fee. To train all you need are a pair of runners. No special facilities, no fancy equipment. No coaching. All of these things can help but are optional extras, there are no barriers to entry.

The confusion arises because some clubs cater for both types of runner and / or clubs organise road races. This generates overlap between the two sports (and spawns the mutant offspring XC *shudder*). But it doesn't make the two sports one. And for some unknown reason the Track and Field lobby feel the need to evangelicise to all of us Road Runners about clubs and the vast benefits we would get from joining. And like atheists when the Mormons come knocking we nod politely, maybe take a leaflet and then carry on as we were...

Of course in many cases people can be passionate about Road Racing; we compete, volunteer or support local events and watch the big events (London or the Olympic marathon) on TV. But watching some lycra clad loon ponce around a track for a handfull of seconds? Or worse take turns at jumping over something *really* high or throwing something *really* heavy? Why on earth would I want to do that? There is as much overlap between that and what I do as there is between Rory Best and Jill from Accounts when she does tag rugby at lunchtime...

[edit]

Just had a thought. At least we can all agree that we are all better than triathletes, right!?!

Haha. Funny post I will admit, even though I don't agree with a lot of it.

The best road runners are also the best track distance runners, so hardly different sports.

You've run a marathon sub 3 hours. The only difference between you and Eliud Kipchoge is that he runs significantly faster than you. You are still engaging in the exact same activity.

The two different sports are athletics (which covers all disciplines and is run by the one governing body) and recreational running, in that the latter isn't really a sport at all. It is exercise, like going for a hike.

The difficulty that arises is that there are many who sit in between these two. These are the people who train as athletes, try to improve their PBs, yet for whatever reason, stay away from the club system. If they care so much about running to their best, then a club would be hugely beneficial, and they in turn would be hugely beneficial to a club.

If somebody runs and trains to try run a PB, and after running a PB, wants to run another one, then that person is engaging in the act of athletics, whether they like it or not. These are the people that I'd personally like to see in clubs. I don't care about Jill in accounts who did the colour run or some other gimmick for "charity".

RayCun · 05-10-2016 08:08AM

Amadeus 2014 wrote: »

Just had a thought. At least we can all agree that we are all better than triathletes, right!?!

Can we make that the official forum motto?

average_runner · 05-10-2016 08:30AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Haha. Funny post I will admit, even though I don't agree with a lot of it.

The best road runners are also the best track distance runners, so hardly different sports.

You've run a marathon sub 3 hours. The only difference between you and Eliud Kipchoge is that he runs significantly faster than you. You are still engaging in the exact same activity.

The two different sports are athletics (which covers all disciplines and is run by the one governing body) and recreational running, in that the latter isn't really a sport at all. It is exercise, like going for a hike.

The difficulty that arises is that there are many who sit in between these two. These are the people who train as athletes, try to improve their PBs, yet for whatever reason, stay away from the club system. If they care so much about running to their best, then a club would be hugely beneficial, and they in turn would be hugely beneficial to a club.

If somebody runs and trains to try run a PB, and after running a PB, wants to run another one, then that person is engaging in the act of athletics, whether they like it or not. These are the people that I'd personally like to see in clubs. I don't care about Jill in accounts who did the colour run or some other gimmick for "charity".

There is one problem with clubs, if your a cross country, 5k,10k half or marathon runner they will only cater for you for a small period of that calendar year.

Training in most clubs now is aim towards cross country or those doing the marathon in october, not 5k or 10k runners. You can do the club sessions but if your main aim for this quarter is a 5k race you need to change your sessions.

clickerquicklic · 05-10-2016 08:43AM

I only start running around March April each year , this year was a bit later as I was cycling a lot and limited time. My main aim was to go sub 20 in parkrun so I googled workouts and have been doing them solo , I went to a club session but it's hard to find people doing exactly what you want to do, google and Garmin are great for me , I set up my watch to do 3:50 pace 12*400 with 30 rest and I'm off it beeps tells me what to do. It's harder on your own but running parkrun I'm basically on my own so I'm not sure what a club could add , I can run when I want now and each week set my watch up to be a second or so faster.

RayCun · 05-10-2016 08:53AM

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I googled workouts and have been doing them solo , I went to a club session but it's hard to find people doing exactly what you want to do

Instead of googling workouts and wondering why other people aren't doing that session :pac:, go to the club and do the same session as everyone else!

average_runner · 05-10-2016 08:56AM

RayCun wrote: »

Instead of googling workouts and wondering why other people aren't doing that session :pac:, go to the club and do the same session as everyone else!

But no point in doing a session for the marathon runners if you want to do a 5k at your best

clickerquicklic · 05-10-2016 09:03AM

RayCun wrote: »

Instead of googling workouts and wondering why other people aren't doing that session :pac:, go to the club and do the same session as everyone else!

They were taking it easy for people that just done the half marathon , a few ran 400's so I went with them but they had a 3 min break after each 3 laps, the session wasn't of great benefit to me , I just see google as a great resource for specific training and pre loading garnin I can target exactly what I want.

Chivito550 · 05-10-2016 09:14AM

clickerquicklic wrote: »

They were taking it easy for people that just done the half marathon , a few ran 400's so I went with them but they had a 3 min break after each 3 laps, the session wasn't of great benefit to me , I just see google as a great resource for specific training and pre loading garnin I can target exactly what I want.

Training solo will only get you so far. Look at the results of any road race around the country. You won't find many (if any) non club runners on the first couple of pages in the results.

Myles Splitz · 05-10-2016 09:17AM

clickerquicklic wrote: »

They were taking it easy for people that just done the half marathon , a few ran 400's so I went with them but they had a 3 min break after each 3 laps, the session wasn't of great benefit to me , I just see google as a great resource for specific training and pre loading garnin I can target exactly what I want.

That type of session is actually really good for 1500-5000m worth looking at many, 14-17 min runners use this type of session

RayCun · 05-10-2016 09:17AM

clickerquicklic wrote: »

They were taking it easy for people that just done the half marathon , a few ran 400's so I went with them but they had a 3 min break after each 3 laps, the session wasn't of great benefit to me , I just see google as a great resource for specific training and pre loading garnin I can target exactly what I want.

If the club is constantly training for distances that don't interest you, fair enough, there's no point going. If you happened to turn up on a week when most people were recovering from a race, that's not a great indication.

In your situation, there are two big benefits to training with a club -
1 - if you are aiming for a sub-20 5k, there are most likely a few runners in the club with the same target or slightly faster. When you are doing 400s at 5k pace, instead of running along with one eye on your watch, you just follow them
2 - you will probably be doing sessions put together by people with more experience than you. 12 x 400 is a good session, sure, but if you do it every week it becomes much less effective. It should be mixed up with 6s, 8s, miles, tempos, hills, ladders, pyramids, fartleks etc

clickerquicklic · 05-10-2016 09:27AM

Thanks, yeah I am mixing it up I've been following programs I found online . I'm sure running in a club is great but do they mostly just aim for marathons ?
I do think it's much harder running solo intervals so likely to benefit you more as it's mentally tougher .
My pb last week was 19:06 so now I'm thinking tonight I'll do 4* 1mile at 3:48 pace and that should help me get to 19, I like that I can target specifically what I want , where as turning up to a club I'm most likely going to be going faster or slower than I need. I'll give it a bash after marathon and go back with an open mind , the winter will be tough I normally stop running around September October , I love the idea of running with others and no doubt long term it will be beneficial thanks .

RayCun · 05-10-2016 09:30AM

This time of year you're going to find a lot of people are aiming at the marathon and it can dominate training, but for most of the year it isn't true. And if running in a group stops you from quitting running for a few months every year, that is going to have a massive effect on your times.

clickerquicklic · 05-10-2016 09:33AM

Thanks I'll definitely go back now and give it another shot , I doubt that many people can be wrong ! I never considered the club would benefit from extra members either and felt I wasn't a serious enough runner to turn up as I generally stop when the weather gets bad! Cheers

Tombo2001 · 05-10-2016 10:09AM

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Thanks I'll definitely go back now and give it another shot , I doubt that many people can be wrong ! I never considered the club would benefit from extra members either and felt I wasn't a serious enough runner to turn up as I generally stop when the weather gets bad! Cheers

That's to be honest a common misperception......"I wont be good enough to join a club"......you will.

Everyone is welcome. And you are better than you think.

davedanon · 05-10-2016 12:27PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

That's to be honest a common misperception......"I wont be good enough to join a club"......you will.

Everyone is welcome. And you are better than you think.

When I joined my club, I assumed that everyone in the 'group', ages 35 up to 60 and beyond, had been members for years and years. Gradually I discovered that most were just like me. Had been sporty in youth, gotten sidetracked with marriage/kids/mortgages etc, then taken up running in their mid thirties or forties.

hot buttered scones · 05-10-2016 01:11PM

I've never thought about it in terms of what I can do for running I suppose (that great JFK quote comes to mind). I was involved with the BHAA at work, and used to race more regularly so I got my social fix from that but I've found it tough going training on my own at times during the current cycle. There's no shortage of clubs around me (I've even been encouraged to join a few by members). I've been finally convinced by some of the arguments put forward in this thread that it's the way go. Even if I can't make all the track sessions, all the local clubs do group runs etc.. I see them supporting each other and acting as unofficial pacers for each other at road races and I'd like to be part of that. I'd also like to try some track stuff and cross country for a change just to change things up a little. And of course do some volunteering and helping out. And selfishly I see guys in clubs who I was running similar times to early on in the year that have improved much better than me - so I'm hoping that joining a club will help to improve too. Btw I go to races to break PBs but also to beat the guy who pipped me to the post the last time so I guess my sport is athletics then.

Murph_D · 06-10-2016 11:20PM

HelenAnne wrote: »

I sometimes compile club weekend results etc for our Fit 4 Life page; I'm sure there could be a better way, but in reality it involves knowing / guessing what races / parkruns around the country people might have run, thinking of the various ways people could have entered the club name and searching under all of them (you'd be surprised - in most races you'll find the club listed a few times under slightly different names) and then noticing if a likely suspect / someone you know ran a race hasn't come up under a 'Club' search and searching for them by name. Then in races like the race series, you have to go into each individual result to get their chip time. And still you'll miss people out and (some!) people will kick up a hue and cry at being left out of the results round up.

Nice work, Helen, can't be easy and I certainly appreciate the efforts of the people at my club who do this. You know about parkrun's consolidated club report feature, right?

davedanon · 07-10-2016 08:45AM

Murph_D wrote: »

Nice work, Helen, can't be easy and I certainly appreciate the efforts of the people at my club who do this. You know about parkrun's consolidated club report feature, right?

How does one get that club report for clubs other than Raheny?

Krusty_Clown · 07-10-2016 08:55AM

davedanon wrote: »

How does one get that club report for clubs other than Raheny?

Tallaght AC. Easiest way to find it is to click on a recent set of results with a club runner and click on the club name. Here's your club history at Tymon.

Murph_D · 07-10-2016 08:56AM

davedanon wrote: »

How does one get that club report for clubs other than Raheny?

If you click on a club name anywhere it appears in the event results, it takes you to a page collating that club's performance history at the particular parkrun. Then there's a link near the top of that page to the weekly consolidated club report (which reports the club's results across all parkruns for the particular week, with links to previous weeks too).

Edit: crossed with above, obvs.

davedanon · 07-10-2016 09:21AM

Thanks, lads.

HelenAnne · 07-10-2016 11:11AM

Murph_D wrote: »

Nice work, Helen, can't be easy and I certainly appreciate the efforts of the people at my club who do this. You know about parkrun's consolidated club report feature, right?

I did not know! I know the PROs used to get an emails from parkrun (I think!) but this thing is great. Thank you!!!

ooter · 23-10-2016 06:29PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Training solo will only get you so far. Look at the results of any road race around the country. You won't find many (if any) non club runners on the first couple of pages in the results.

Can obviously only speak for myself but I've finished pretty high up in road races on a few occasions and have never been a member of a club and never felt the urge to join one.
Interesting debate, I've enjoyed reading the discussion.

davedanon · 23-10-2016 06:53PM

ooter wrote: »

Can obviously only speak for myself but I've finished pretty high up in road races on a few occasions and have never been a member of a club and never felt the urge to join one.
Interesting debate, I've enjoyed reading the discussion.

If you joined a club and trained with peers and betters, you might find yourself winning those races.

clickerquicklic · 24-10-2016 09:05AM

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Thanks I'll definitely go back now and give it another shot , I doubt that many people can be wrong ! I never considered the club would benefit from extra members either and felt I wasn't a serious enough runner to turn up as I generally stop when the weather gets bad! Cheers

I joined a club after this thread, I can't make all the sessions in fact mostly I can only do one a week with the club. It has been a great experience so far , I run whatever session they are doing on the day I can make it.
Interval sessions are so much easier in a group, everyone's more than helpful I try to complete the other sessions I miss with the group on my own and it's so much harder doing them solo.

Chivito550 · 24-10-2016 10:02AM

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I joined a club after this thread, I can't make all the sessions in fact mostly I can only do one a week with the club. It has been a great experience so far , I run whatever session they are doing on the day I can make it.
Interval sessions are so much easier in a group, everyone's more than helpful I try to complete the other sessions I miss with the group on my own and it's so much harder doing them solo.

Delighted to hear it. Best of luck.

clickerquicklic · 05-12-2016 12:10PM

Just as an update the club is really helping me , I force myself out on a Monday Tuesday solo so I'm not lagging behind on the Thursday interval session.
12*400's or whatever the order of the day is is so much easier to do in a group , I've moved to a faster group now and just chatting asking what times others have done for 5k helps me believe it's possible for me to do them times.
I've knocked a minute off my 5k pb already which is significant improvement as I was sub 20 now sub 19. I'm excited for the future I'd imagine if I hadn't kids and more free time doing a few more sessions with the club he more beneficial again .

*Thread Spilt* Recreational Runners and Joining Clubs

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Thread Spilt Recreational Runners and Joining Clubs