*Thread Spilt* Recreational Runners and Joining Clubs

RayCun

(yes, I have work to do, but it's boring)

in 2007, there were 120 women competing in the senior T&F championships
in 2016, it was 171
not doubling, but still a substantial improvement

*didn't count the men
*relays not listed for 2007, this is individual events
*in both years, there were bound to be some women who competed in multiple events, so the real number is a bit lower

Chivito550

muddypaws wrote: »

I've only been running since July, started the C25K and have found everyone very supportive and helpful, in here and in the real world. Definitely go along to your local park run, even whilst still doing the C25K, there are participants of all levels, from people walking, to those running under 20 minutes.

I am involved in putting on races in other sports, and we have an award for the finisher thats out on the course for the longest time. Not for coming last, but for sticking with it, not giving up, and getting around. It takes real dedication to keep going, when you know that you have absolutely no chance of winning, its harder I think than if you believe you have a chance of coming somewhere in the race, so we like to recognise it. Its all about having fun, and achieving whatever it is that you want to achieve.

What sport is this?

yaboya1

How long is it now since we've had a post on topic?

Chivito, if you're so passionate about recruiting club members why don't you go down to your local parkrun and hand out a few flyers with details of how to get involved with your club (Pat Hooper regularly does similar for Raheny in St Anne's) instead of moaning about it here?

Djoucer

muddypaws wrote: »

I am involved in putting on races in other sports, and we have an award for the finisher thats out on the course for the longest time. Not for coming last, but for sticking with it, not giving up, and getting around. It takes real dedication to keep going, when you know that you have absolutely no chance of winning, its harder I think than if you believe you have a chance of coming somewhere in the race, so we like to recognise it. Its all about having fun, and achieving whatever it is that you want to achieve.

Ah here. That's a prize for coming last, no matter how you dress it up.

Running is a joyful thing. We don't need to recognise anyone for just finishing or for coming last. It takes no more dedication to finish a race than it does to go to work each day.

Seems to be a thing lately were running is becoming shrouded in gladiator style language, talk of battles, inner demons, nonsense slogans, leave no man behind, soaring music etc.

It's putting one foot in front of the other.

Likewise re elite argument. Running was a past time long before it came a sport. If anything, it's easier to argue why recreational running is much more rewarding than running in circles around a track, doing reps etc.

RacoonQueen

yaboya1 wrote: »

How long is it now since we've had a post on topic?

Chivito, if you're so passionate about recruiting club members why don't you go down to your local parkrun and hand out a few flyers with details of how to get involved with your club (Pat Hooper regularly does similar for Raheny in St Anne's) instead of moaning about it here?

See now, this, is a good idea. I was probably a couple of years thinking of joining a club and it wasn't that I didn't think I was good enough, I just wasn't sure how to go about it despite emailing clubs and them telling me to 'just come down' that whole thing is very intimidating. As I'm sure most of us can relate.
Clubs should really look more at ways to make joining them more inviting and easy.

*just remembered I've loads of propective member emails to answer...sh*t*

Sacksian

Recreational runners aren't a problem for clubs at all. In fact, they probably represent the majority of participants for races that act as the principal fundraisers for some of the biggest clubs in the country.

One problem for clubs is having enough volunteers to do all the things that people have suggested clubs should be doing on this thread, such as recruitment (but lots and lots of other things too that are beyond just making sure the members are looked after).

Clubs are there for runners, but runners should be there for their clubs too, whether that means international athletes running the national league 4x4, sticking your hand up to do the walk, turning out for the xc team even if you'll finish last, club runners stewarding, coaching juveniles, admin, organising fundraisers, baking cakes, whatever you want to do!

Chivito550

yaboya1 wrote: »

How long is it now since we've had a post on topic?

Chivito, if you're so passionate about recruiting club members why don't you go down to your local parkrun and hand out a few flyers with details of how to get involved with your club (Pat Hooper regularly does similar for Raheny in St Anne's) instead of moaning about it here?

To be fair, I'm not specifically talking about my club. My club is doing very fine indeed, and I see loads of people there from my club the very odd time I am at a Parkrun, who I assume are already way ahead of you on that idea. The meet and train group has become a big thing. Also in 10 years it will be the best equipped club in the country by a comfortable margin.

I'm talking about clubs in general could do with more members.

And I train every Saturday morning, which clashes with Parkruns, not that I should have to justify having a moan on a moan thread. just had a personal moan, no different to anyone else on this thread. Anybody who finds that offensive has real issues.

RacoonQueen

average_runner wrote: »

Lack of facilities is a big issue also, clubs in Ireland couldn't handle it, if all recreational runners joined clubs.

Some sense at last, many clubs have waiting lists for juveniles because they can't handle the numbers a) because they don't have enough coaches and b) because they simply don't have the space and facilities

We even had to stop taking ladies members at one stage because we just couldn't handle the numbers turning up to training (car park facilities) - which is ok in summer as people can park over in the park but in the dark evenings people don't like having to go through the park on their own to pick up their car.
As well as that tempo runs and interval runs then come out of the park which can be hard logistically.

*off to answer those emails now*

seamus

Joining a club doesn't suit me. I run almost exclusively at lunch time or to and from work.

Having children, it's simply not possible to attend club training in the evenings or on weekends.

I'm part of a cycling club and even then primarily it's because if I wasn't I would never, ever get out on the bike on my own.

RayCun

seamus wrote: »

Joining a club doesn't suit me. I run almost exclusively at lunch time or to and from work.

Having children, it's simply not possible to attend club training in the evenings or on weekends.

I'm part of a cycling club and even then primarily it's because if I wasn't I would never, ever get out on the bike on my own.

If you can get out on the bike at the weekend, and if you can race at the weekend, you could train in a club session at the weekend too :pac:

But yeah, I know, lots of people like running precisely because it is flexible, you can run at whatever time of day suits you. So joining a club that trains at specific times can be a hard sell

Myles Splitz

Sacksian wrote: »

Recreational runners aren't a problem for clubs at all. In fact, they probably represent the majority of participants for races that act as the principal fundraisers for some of the biggest clubs in the country.

One problem for clubs is having enough volunteers to do all the things that people have suggested clubs should be doing on this thread, such as recruitment (but lots and lots of other things too that are beyond just making sure the members are looked after).

Clubs are there for runners, but runners should be there for their clubs too, whether that means international athletes running the national league 4x4, sticking your hand up to do the walk, turning out for the xc team even if you'll finish last, club runners stewarding, coaching juveniles, admin, organising fundraisers, baking cakes, whatever you want to do!

This +1000

Club numbers don't mean feck all for the club for the most part unless they are active members (and I am not just talking about competing) there are plenty of big clubs with a large membership base who rely on a handful of people to do everything or are so disjointed that you would find it hard to define them as a club other than wearing the same singlets.

kit3

seamus wrote: »

Joining a club doesn't suit me. I run almost exclusively at lunch time or to and from work.

Having children, it's simply not possible to attend club training in the evenings or on weekends.

I'm part of a cycling club and even then primarily it's because if I wasn't I would never, ever get out on the bike on my own.

I'm exactly the same. Most of my runs are at lunchtime or very early morning at the weekend. Evenings taken up with kids activities (& mundane domestic stuff - do they really need to be fed / clean clothes etc �� ) & weekends taken up with matches. Maybe when the kids are old enough to do their own thing ......

Myles Splitz

Regarding the facilities I think this is a bit of a cop out (and one I have used in the past) There was an old poster here who summed it up perfectly recently enough by saying invest in people not facilities.

At the moment the money around the sport is not enough to make a dent in the issue. We need to be providing support not just to the athletes but to the people who devote their time and effort to the sport they love. I don't just mean money I mean looking to the active coaches and volunteers in this country and actual ask what exactly can we do to help support them in any way possible.

The Terrie & Sean Cahill's/Donnie Walshs/Dick Hoopers/Jerry Kiernans/John Shields/Jeremy Lyons and Steven Macklins of Ireland as well as the countless officials

kit3

In terms of mentors/coaches, I think it's easier to achieve this in the GAA set up. The mentors are usually parents of some of the kids on the team, especially at underage level. With the club providing extra support by way of a senior player once the team reached U14/15 etc

muddypaws

Chivito550 wrote: »

What sport is this?

Djoucer wrote: »

Ah here. That's a prize for coming last, no matter how you dress it up.

Running is a joyful thing. We don't need to recognise anyone for just finishing or for coming last. It takes no more dedication to finish a race than it does to go to work each day.

Cani-sports. The idea came from sled dog races in Alaska, so its not just about the human. A lantern was lit at the start of the race, turned off when the last team crossed the finish line, so the lantern was presented to that team. That tradition has carried on around the world with different sled dog events, and has crossed over into some of the dog assisted sports. We do canicross, running with a dog, bikejoring and scootering. One dog, one person, the person might be super fit and fast, the dog might not be, or vice versa.

Someone may be able to buy a purpose bred, super fast sled dog, someone else is entering with their pet who loves to run with them, but may not be particularly fast. Ireland currently has a European and World Champion in bikejore, we know she is going to win every race here that she enters (unless something goes drastically wrong on the course), doesn't stop me and others entering as well.

We had a race in March, the woman that got the green lantern that day was a new runner. She has carried on running, and has really improved, she wasn't anywhere near being eligible for the green lantern at our race on Sunday. So, if it encourages people, then we'll keep doing it, and it reminds people of where our sport started from.

HelenAnne

Chivito550 wrote: »

The broader the base, the higher the peak. People outside the club system aren't part of that base. That's what I mean. Get them in and raise the numbers.

you'll catch more flies with honey, though!

HelenAnne

yaboya1 wrote: »

How long is it now since we've had a post on topic?

Chivito, if you're so passionate about recruiting club members why don't you go down to your local parkrun and hand out a few flyers with details of how to get involved with your club (Pat Hooper regularly does similar for Raheny in St Anne's) instead of moaning about it here?

Quite a lot of people have joined Raheny Shamrock through running / being involved with St Anne's parkrun (not sure whether it's Pat's flyers working, or just meeting club members / getting chatting etc); I'd say parkrun & Raheny have a fantastic relationship, and it's really symbiotic.

Chivito550

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057546096/1/#post98326200

We had this discussion not too long ago by the way.

I wasn't trying to start one again. Just posting a personal pet peeve of mine on what seemed a harmless thread.

Tombo2001

nhunter100 wrote: »

The closest club to me is 15 miles away, where the membership is predominantly female whose only goal seems to be to loose weight and compete in the DCM hoping for a sub 5. Generalisation I know but this is the reason I'm a solo runner. Plus if people in clubs share your attitude I don't think I'm missing much tbh.

I don't regret the fact that I didn't run much when I was in College and had lots of time. It was a lifestyle thing, and I wasn't cut out for it then.

I massively regret the fact that I after I took up running seriously, I waited about 8 years before joining a club.

For the following reasons:

(I) there is proper competition. Recording a pb in a 5k fun run is an irrelevance compared to winning a medal in a national event, imho.
(II) the variety when you are in a club is much greater. Track, road, cross country, distances changing, even relays.....keeps you interested and motivated.
(III) the structured coaching means that I massively improved, despite being a lot older than when I started.
(IV) the team dynamic
(I) Socially its just better.

Tombo2001

Chivito550 wrote: »

To be fair, I'm not specifically talking about my club. My club is doing very fine indeed, and I see loads of people there from my club the very odd time I am at a Parkrun, who I assume are already way ahead of you on that idea. The meet and train group has become a big thing. Also in 10 years it will be the best equipped club in the country by a comfortable margin.

I'm talking about clubs in general could do with more members.

And I train every Saturday morning, which clashes with Parkruns, not that I should have to justify having a moan on a moan thread. just had a personal moan, no different to anyone else on this thread. Anybody who finds that offensive has real issues.

Very few clubs in Ireland have more than 100 senior members. Lots of masters, lots of kids. The figures for club membership are (IMHO) very low.

I would also voice the opinion
-Its not easy to set up a club in Ireland. There is a fair bit of bureaucracy, it costs quite a bit.
-You cant enter AAI competitions without being a club member.

There is no running club in my immediate area either. Loads of the local kids would be delighted to enter an AAI Cross Country event as a local team. But they cant. There is no club. If we wanted to start one.....

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/clubs/how-to-start-a-club/

That's a lot of effort.

How many new clubs have we seen emerge in the past ten years, despite the demographic shifts in Dublin especially.......cant think of many.

RayCun

in Dublin, there are a few new clubs - Dublin Bay Running Club, Rathcoole AC, Waterstown Warriors - formed in the last few years. I think a couple of other clubs have started and folded.

The Muppet

I have no interest in joining a club either, In the past I have played golf, snooker, football, swam and cycled and never joined a club for any of them, to me running is no different ?

I'm happy doing what I do , I set myself goals and try to reach them I don't need to be in a club to do that .

IvoryTower

the idea of approaching schools is good, also parkrun leaflets, keep them coming

yaboya1

Chivito550 wrote: »

To be fair, I'm not specifically talking about my club. My club is doing very fine indeed, and I see loads of people there from my club the very odd time I am at a Parkrun, who I assume are already way ahead of you on that idea. The meet and train group has become a big thing. Also in 10 years it will be the best equipped club in the country by a comfortable margin.

I'm talking about clubs in general could do with more members.

And I train every Saturday morning, which clashes with Parkruns, not that I should have to justify having a moan on a moan thread. just had a personal moan, no different to anyone else on this thread. Anybody who finds that offensive has real issues.

I wasn't offended.
Just offering a suggestion which may help recruit more recreational runners into clubs. I directed it at you because it was you who seemed to have an issue with them not being club members.

RayCun

Tombo2001 wrote: »

There is no running club in my immediate area either. Loads of the local kids would be delighted to enter an AAI Cross Country event as a local team. But they cant. There is no club. If we wanted to start one.....

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/clubs/how-to-start-a-club/

That's a lot of effort.

okay the requirements

at least 10 members, 4 over 21

That's hardly difficult. 4 parents and six kids

must elect a chairman, secretary, children’s officer, registrar and treasurer

the same four parents could do those jobs. If, for the sake of argument, all you're doing is entering the kids in cross country races, the officers will not have much to do.
But if you are dealing with kids you have to have a children's officer. That is a basic safety requirement for everyone.
Chairman is where the buck stops.
Secretary to deal with correspondence, will be the person Athletics Ireland and Dublin Board contact.
Registrar and treasurer for basic admin, could have very little to do in a small club.

contact Dublin board for clearance

Dublin board is not interested in putting obstacles in anyone's way. If you're going to be competing you need a distinctive strip for races. If you propose setting up a new club right beside another club there'll be questions about why you don't just join the existing club. But basically any meeting I've been at is happy to see new clubs being formed.

club constitution

could be one page long. You can get models from AAI

club registration and individual membership fees

the club and members will be covered by AAI insurance, so fees are necessary, as well as some indication of good governance

dna_leri

Chivito550 wrote: »

The way I look at it we have 2 sports right now. One which has great quality but is on death's door with dreadful attendances at Nationals etc. Then we have another sport that appears to be booming but the quality is poor (recreational running). I'd like to see the two engaged together for the good of the overall sport. The lack of effort down the years by AAI to bridge this disconnect is the big problem, but I'm still entitled to get pissed off that people who run every day don't give much of a toss about the sport, and don't really try to be part of it.

I think the problem that you are having is confusing recreational running (which many here take part in), with athletics in which you participate.

These are different sports in the same way that tag rugby is similar to but different from professional rugby or how Futsal (aka indoor 5-a-side) is related to soccer. Almost every sport now has a recreational side to it - cycling, swimming, golf, darts, table tennis. In most cases the recreational sport has the same basic rules and governing body but is adapted to suit the participants.

The people who do the An Post cycle know and care as much about Dan Martin as those doing the Rock'n'Roll half marathon care about Tom Barr. Stop trying to bridge the gap, move on.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

To be fair, I'm not specifically talking about my club. My club is doing very fine indeed, and I see loads of people there from my club the very odd time I am at a Parkrun, who I assume are already way ahead of you on that idea. The meet and train group has become a big thing. Also in 10 years it will be the best equipped club in the country by a comfortable margin.

I'm talking about clubs in general could do with more members.

And I train every Saturday morning, which clashes with Parkruns, not that I should have to justify having a moan on a moan thread. just had a personal moan, no different to anyone else on this thread. Anybody who finds that offensive has real issues.

Your club will become one of the best equip clubs in the country, but ye don't own any of it. The track is DCC and so is the gym. Your club is very lucky that way and hopefully ye can keep building on that.

Alot of clubs don't have that luxury

Tombo2001

Look, its a matter of opinion.

Its more work than I'd be willing to take on.

There is all the bureaucracy.
Plus financial costs....€150 club fee plus ten members fees of circa €15.....before any money goes into the club itself....

That's a lot for a small group - 4/5 parents - to deal with.

Especially when there are so many other options out there (ie other sports).

I see it as a barrier. You may not.

Myles Splitz

Chivito550 wrote: »

I doubt I'm the only one who would like to see athletics take advantage of the amount of people out running, be it in terms of participation and spectating. A high profile sprint coach said to me last year just before nationals that AAI completely drop the ball not trying to bridge this gap and finding a way of getting some of these masses to come watch at Santry, with something like a fun run the Sunday morning, finishing on the track or behind the track in the demesne, with free entry to Morton stadium for the Nationals. Drum up some atmosphere and all that.

To play devils advocate what exactly have you done to increase spectator views (I mean you in more a general sense in terms of AAI members?)

Have you brought along a family member/OH/friend to a track meet?
Have you offered to help officiate when not competing to allow others to spectate?
Have you mentioned the event to people in work or put up a flyer?
Have you promoted the event on your own social media feeds in advance?
Have you arrived a little bit earlier to events to support juveniles/other events?

I think we all pass the book a little too much rather than take a little bit on board. to get 100 people to try and convince 1-2 people than 1-2 people try and convince 100-200 extra.

RayCun

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Look, its a matter of opinion.

Its more work than I'd be willing to take on.

There is all the bureaucracy.
Plus financial costs....€150 club fee plus ten members fees of circa €15.....before any money goes into the club itself....

That's a lot for a small group - 4/5 parents - to deal with.

Especially when there are so many other options out there (ie other sports).

I see it as a barrier. You may not.

Obviously, anything more than rocking up on the day of a race and saying "these kids want to run" presents some sort of barrier. But are the barriers unnecessarily high? I don't think so.

Sticking with kids and cross-country...

To get the use of the parks where the races are held, the organisers have to show that they have insurance. The insurance is based on everyone competing being a registered member of an AAI club (or a school, for those competitions). Step outside that model, and you need to have event-specific insurance, pre-registered competitors, higher fees - swapping one set of barriers for another.

Athletics Ireland can't grant club status to anyone who sends in an email. Their insurers want to know that the people they are insuring are in some way responsible. Setting up a club with named officers and a constitution provides some comeback. And you're talking about coaching kids. The reputational damage that could be caused to the AAI, and athletics in general, if kids are treated badly, is enormous. You will have to jump through some hoops, you will have to demonstrate your bona fides, and that is exactly as it should be. Yeah, that's some work, but the alternative is not an alternative.

The funny thing is, you're balking at the once-off start up costs associated with juvenile competition. This is nothing! The hassle of juvenile athletics is not in writing a constitution or picking a treasurer. It's in getting coaches to commit to training the kids week in and week out.