Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

PhoneMain · 03-10-2016 04:08PM

The Talking Bread, sure you're being ridiculous. What we need is 2 teams, 1 for the championship and another for the final. That's been our problem for the last 65 years!!

jmayo · 03-10-2016 04:37PM

boosabum wrote: »

Bit harsh there, Rochford has a 6 week old child at home. It's a big sacrifice to be taking focus away from a new born baby to be concentrating on what can be a very thankless task. managers have a short shelf life too, especially in Mayo

The buck stops with the manager for a disastrous selection policy.

Would you rather we pretend everyone did ok ?

And being honest I would rather blame Rochford for putting Rob Hennelly in a position where it turned out he was ill suited than blame Hennelly.
Also I think he did a disservice to David Clarke.
There were a lot more from the drawn game that deserved to be replaced before Clarke.

If we just gloss over the cracks we are doomed to repeat them.

boosabum · 03-10-2016 04:41PM

Are you suggesting that it's time for a new manager ?

The Talking Bread · 03-10-2016 04:57PM

jmayo wrote: »

The buck stops with the manager for a disastrous selection policy.

Would you rather we pretend everyone did ok ?

And being honest I would rather blame Rochford for putting Rob Hennelly in a position where it turned out he was ill suited than blame Hennelly.
Also I think he did a disservice to David Clarke.
There were a lot more from the drawn game that deserved to be replaced before Clarke.

If we just gloss over the cracks we are doomed to repeat them.

Not sure where you have been! Everyone agrees on this matter,

everyone blames Rochford for the decision. Doesn't mean he deserves to be automatically fired. I am not sure you have been near media over the past 48 hours but noone is glossing over anything.

It was Rochford who made the decision to dump Hennelly for Clarke earlier in the season. Many thought it was a bit harsh on the time on RH but it proved to be a brilliant change.

Rochford obviously saw something and took a gamble to try hit long kicks but it was an awful gamble as it turned out (and hindsight has a part to play in this also)
RH has never been as bad nor ever will be again as Saturday. His confidence clearly blown after the first few kickouts and he never recovered.

There has been worse mistakes made by greater managers but hard to remember one which backfired so much.

Long and short, everyone knows its a bad decision, everyone knows the management are accountable for it but I am not sure everyone agrees he should be sacked.

jmayo · 03-10-2016 04:59PM

boosabum wrote: »

Are you suggesting that it's time for a new manager ?

No I am not.
I hope to fook that Rochford learns something.
Looking at what he did for Tipp game made me think he was a cut above his predecessors and that bit gives me hope that his screw ups in both drawn match and Saturday will not be repeated.
Also the bringing on of new players has to be first consideration.

EDIT:
BTW The Talking Bread where have I ever said to fire him.
I just want to give him good kick up the ars* to waken him up.

You also say it was gamble.
Well his gamble hadn't paid off and yet he persevered.
He did what he did with SOS in first match, he appeared to keep waiting hoping it might improve.

Shurimgreat · 03-10-2016 05:05PM

I was of the view that James Horan could deliver an All-Ireland until after the 2013 final when it became clear he was not a manager for All-Ireland final day.

I'd be in favour of giving Rochford another go at it, but only one more year. You either have it on AI final day or you don't. Horan never learned from his mistakes. I just hope Rochford can be different this way.

It shouldn't be too much to ask for us to have one manager who comes up trumps at least once on AI final day. Just once would do. So far most have had shockers.

Gael85 · 03-10-2016 05:08PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I was of the view that James Horan could deliver an All-Ireland until after the 2013 final when it became clear he was not a manager for All-Ireland final day.

I'd be in favour of giving Rochford another go at it, but only one more year. You either have it on AI final day or you don't. Horan never learned from his mistakes. I just hope Rochford can be different this way.

It shouldn't be too much to ask for us to have one manager who comes up trumps at least once on AI final day. Just once would do. So far most have had shockers.

Who was in charge?

PressRun · 03-10-2016 05:34PM

We should be hoping that David Clarke doesn't decide to call it a day, tbh. He is and always has been our best option for goals. I'm still very disappointed in the decision to drop him the last day. I'm also disappointed in the inaction on the sideline. I know Rochford probably just made a decision and wanted to stick with it, but it was clear from very early on that it wasn't working and there should have been a switch. Hennelly looked beyond uncomfortable and while it's hard not to feel sorry for him on a human level, it's not as though this is the first time he's had problems in goal. Clarke communicates better with his fullback line and is more composed under the high ball and knows when to intervene and when to step back. He should have been in there from the get-go on Saturday and I really hope that he doesn't take a confidence hit or feel undermined by this decision.

That all said, Rochford should absolutely stay. He got one call wrong and granted it was a major one, but he has shown a lot of promise this year and I do think there is more he can do with this team, especially with hopefully the U21s looking to get involved next year. I know he has family stuff going on right now that is more important than a gaelic football team, but I really think he should stay on.

PARlance · 03-10-2016 05:39PM

jmayo wrote: »

He did what he did with SOS in first match, he appeared to keep waiting hoping it might improve.

SO'S was hauled off almost immediately.
The 3 or 4 howlers came in the space of about 6 or 7 mins. You can't expect him to take him off after the first one, he had a decent first half. The second sent warnings and he had a substitute waiting on the line. The implosion happened very quickly and Rochford acted quickly on it imo.

km79 · 03-10-2016 05:40PM

Are people SERIOUSLY even suggesting Rochford should go?
If so this place is gone worse than I thought

martyos121 · 03-10-2016 05:46PM

km79 wrote: »

Are people SERIOUSLY even suggesting Rochford should go?
If so this place is gone worse than I thought

I really fecking hope not. Best manager we've had in a long while. Just like Hennelly saying one bad day should not define one's career (and how right he is), one bad decision should not do the same for Rochford.

Peist2007 · 03-10-2016 05:51PM

corny wrote: »

I think you'll find a statistical analysis tells you Dublin are far less likely to score from their possession if the corner back gets the ball. Pushing up, as it were, might yield scores (Kerry game) but it might not. You might end up conceding a lot more if Cluxton has his day and finds his man in midfield.

Nothing clear cut or 'blindingly obvious'. Might actually be the prudent thing to do.

If you don't think that Dublin kickouts are a pretty big issue when preparing to play Dublin then we're in disagreement. There was no plan whatsoever. Naive management.

CrowdedHouse · 03-10-2016 05:58PM

Lads - a Tipp man here.

Is that statement from Rob H above real?

If it is I'm shocked that he considered he had to make one, it's a team game, you can't be pointing the finger at one man.

Will there be one from COC about missing the free, or the other forwards about why they couldn't score a couple more points between them?

Really unnecessary IMO

The Talking Bread · 03-10-2016 06:07PM

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Lads - a Tipp man here.

Is that statement from Rob H above real?

If it is I'm shocked that he considered he had to make one, it's a team game, you can't be pointing the finger at one man.

Will there be one from COC about missing the free, or the other forwards about why they couldn't score a couple more points between them?

Really unnecessary IMO

of course its not necessary but what harm was it?

It wasnt a statement, it was on his instagram account and aimed at fans, friends and followers. Wasn't an addrress to the nation!
Its not as if it was an apology, more a sense of acknowledging the support he has got and getting it off his chest.

A very positive piece and good to see he isn't hiding away and bottling it up.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BLGeUmVgKmQ/

MaroonAndGreen · 03-10-2016 06:07PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

It was a very tough free. Long range kicks on a kickers "good side" are actually the toughest to get right. Harder to get the power and curl the ball in. He had to hit it harder and the danger with that is you will pull it, which is what happened. Was a freetaker myself and was left footed and always struggled with frees out the wing in or around the 45 yard line for that reason. He would have found it easier to kick it from the exact same position on the opposite side, despite Ger Canning's inevitable comment about it being "on the wrong side for a right footed taker".

A very tough kick and i don't factor it into the game analysis at all.

I take the expert opinion! I don't blame Cillian for missing that at all, as I said, standing on the hill at the time it looked very difficult but I think the television angle being right behind it made it look an easier kick than it was.

MaroonAndGreen · 03-10-2016 06:10PM

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Lads - a Tipp man here.

Is that statement from Rob H above real?

If it is I'm shocked that he considered he had to make one, it's a team game, you can't be pointing the finger at one man.

Will there be one from COC about missing the free, or the other forwards about why they couldn't score a couple more points between them?

Really unnecessary IMO

To be honest, i'm not surprised as Robbie is very active on social media and has been known to put up the odd blog post etc. It's not out of character for him at all to make a ''statement'' as people are calling it. I was expecting something from him just because its Robbie and from seeing how he uses social media it was predictable he would post something like he did

MaroonAndGreen · 03-10-2016 06:12PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

If you don't think that Dublin kickouts are a pretty big issue when preparing to play Dublin then we're in disagreement. There was no plan whatsoever. Naive management.

I actually think we did quite well against Cluxton's kickout, he was forced long more than he usually is

PressRun · 03-10-2016 06:27PM

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Lads - a Tipp man here.

Is that statement from Rob H above real?

If it is I'm shocked that he considered he had to make one, it's a team game, you can't be pointing the finger at one man.

Will there be one from COC about missing the free, or the other forwards about why they couldn't score a couple more points between them?

Really unnecessary IMO

Meh. It's just something he posted on his personal Instagram account. It wasn't like an official statement released by Mayo GAA or some such. Lots of players use social media and some of them like the interaction with fans and so on (Eamonn McGee is a great man for the chat on Twitter). He felt like he wanted to say something on his own social media account. No harm, imo.

Robeman · 03-10-2016 06:29PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Here's a question for you: why did Connelly and Holmes ignore Cluxton's kickouts last year on the first and second days despite this being a blindingly obvious issue to deal with?

No idea. Maybe because they did not have a solution that would improve matters so they left things alone. This was a shortcomming they shared with the Mangers of every other team that played Dublin the past 4\5 years.

At least they and every other Manager stopped short of ridiculous solution attempts.

Can someone correct me if I am wrong but was it last year that RH was in goal and delayed time tying his boot laces before a kickout in semi (or some other game) when it was obvious he was just delaying time and then delivered an awful kickout which delivered a score for opposition.

If my memory is correct he has form on bad kickouts.

Robeman · 03-10-2016 06:35PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

David Clarke is far and away a superior goalkeeper to Hennelly. Probably Mayo's best player in the drawn game and did nothing wrong when he came on in the replay.

Why is Hennelly even on the panel? He's simply not good enough at this level. To win an AI Final, you have to be ruthless from a selection point of view and drop from the panel players who aren't up to it.

Its been a recurring problem over the years, too loyal to players past their best or who are part of a clique.

If you look at counties like Kerry, they embark on ruthless self analysis in the wake of an AI final loss, so that they don't make the same mistake again. In Mayo, its usually a case of "ah sure it will be alright next time."

Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Years ago a Kerryman told me that when the great Kerry team were in the prime there were 3/4 way more talented players sitting at home but who did not have what it took to help deliver an All Ireland for Kerry so they were left at home.

PhoneMain · 03-10-2016 06:39PM

Start naming players who should be on the team so? Put up or shut up.

Robeman · 03-10-2016 06:42PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Season ticket renewed.:)

No county can match the passion of Mayo supporters. I respect what you have done and even more the timing of doing it.

Many including myself will sulk for a while but crawl back eventually.

Robeman · 03-10-2016 06:54PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Not sure where you have been! Everyone agrees on this matter,

everyone blames Rochford for the decision. Doesn't mean he deserves to be automatically fired. I am not sure you have been near media over the past 48 hours but noone is glossing over anything.

It was Rochford who made the decision to dump Hennelly for Clarke earlier in the season. Many thought it was a bit harsh on the time on RH but it proved to be a brilliant change.

Rochford obviously saw something and took a gamble to try hit long kicks but it was an awful gamble as it turned out (and hindsight has a part to play in this also)
RH has never been as bad nor ever will be again as Saturday. His confidence clearly blown after the first few kickouts and he never recovered.

There has been worse mistakes made by greater managers but hard to remember one which backfired so much.

Long and short, everyone knows its a bad decision, everyone knows the management are accountable for it but I am not sure everyone agrees he should be sacked.

I know I have called for him to be sacked but thats because I think he is not running the show.

I was delighted when he was appointed at the alternative hanging around in the background was too horrible to contemplate.

If he cleanses the panel of all the "Egos" and show that he is in charge and only selects players who will be loyal to the team and management I would be fully supportive of his continuing. There are not too many attractive options out there who would be willing to take on Mayo as their choice will be accepting the "Egos" and their "manger reports to us" mentality or else a wholesale building of the team which would possible take 2\3 years.

The Talking Bread · 03-10-2016 06:56PM

Here we go (or ego) , prepare for another groundhog day of theories!

PARlance · 03-10-2016 07:07PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

of course its not necessary but what harm was it?

It wasnt a statement, it was on his instagram account and aimed at fans, friends and followers. Wasn't an addrress to the nation!
Its not as if it was an apology, more a sense of acknowledging the support he has got and getting it off his chest.

A very positive piece and good to see he isn't hiding away and bottling it up.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BLGeUmVgKmQ/

As MaroonAndGreen said, it was totally expected.
His own business is Social Media. He is also a big campaigner for mental health awareness. Combine the two and it's good to talk on social media.

Ascii · 03-10-2016 08:42PM

PressRun wrote: »

We should be hoping that David Clarke doesn't decide to call it a day,

Clarke is smart. I don't think he will be quitting. I understand he would be disappointed at being dropped the last day but I think we has had time to reflect he will realise that he has cemented his place as the number one keeper in the county for the next couple of years. As someone mentioned earlier if Cluxton is still calling the shots and him in his late 30's Clarke still has another few years. He Will know secretly that it was the wrong decision to be dropped..but will he be spiteful and walk away from the panel, I don't think so.

Every player out there in any team knows that there is always someone younger and better vying for your jersey. That is the nature of competitive team sports. The player that throws in the towel because he is not the number one choice does not bring anything to the table in my opinion and is as well off gone.

Let's be realistic, if we had won and Hennelly hadn't given the penalty or the three early points away, we would be praising SR on his tactical master stroke. Why when we loose is everyone so much f**ken smarter and talking about what a crazy decision it was and to get the knives out.

Think back to Mickey Harte in 2008 All Ireland final when Canavan came off apparently injured only to come back on a while later unexpectedly. I guarantee if they had lost that day Harte would have been lauded as a fool for bringing back on someone who appeared injured when there were plenty more bodies open the bench, albeit none as influential. Because they won he was a tactical genius.

SeanJ09 · 03-10-2016 09:35PM

Robeman wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Not sure where you have been! Everyone agrees on this matter,

everyone blames Rochford for the decision. Doesn't mean he deserves to be automatically fired. I am not sure you have been near media over the past 48 hours but noone is glossing over anything.

It was Rochford who made the decision to dump Hennelly for Clarke earlier in the season. Many thought it was a bit harsh on the time on RH but it proved to be a brilliant change.

Rochford obviously saw something and took a gamble to try hit long kicks but it was an awful gamble as it turned out (and hindsight has a part to play in this also)
RH has never been as bad nor ever will be again as Saturday. His confidence clearly blown after the first few kickouts and he never recovered.

There has been worse mistakes made by greater managers but hard to remember one which backfired so much.

Long and short, everyone knows its a bad decision, everyone knows the management are accountable for it but I am not sure everyone agrees he should be sacked.

I know I have called for him to be sacked but thats because I think he is not running the show.

I was delighted when he was appointed at the alternative hanging around in the background was too horrible to contemplate.

If he cleanses the panel of all the "Egos" and show that he is in charge and only selects players who will be loyal to the team and management I would be fully supportive of his continuing. There are not too many attractive options out there who would be willing to take on Mayo as their choice will be accepting the "Egos" and their "manger reports to us" mentality or else a wholesale building of the team which would possible take 2\3 years.

Why are you presuming there is an "Egos" problem in the Mayo team? What are you basing it on?

The Talking Bread · 03-10-2016 09:38PM

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Why are you presuming there is an "Egos" problem in the Mayo team? What are you basing it on?

oh, god, don't get him going again.:mad:

happyoutscan · 03-10-2016 09:46PM

Just got a text that Clarke has retired. Can't confirm yet for definite

Kumejima · 03-10-2016 09:46PM

Kerryman here, just looking through the thread, lots of criticism and recriminations of management certain players etc. Its very harsh I feel. Mayo management did a fine job this year - no other county were anywhere near as good at shackling Dublin. But for freak bad luck on the first day and a freakishly bad day at the office for Rob Hennelley the last day, Mayo would be champions, and very worthy ones at that. I've been lucky enough to grow up through the late 70s onwards as we've enjoyed a lot of success. I've seen great teams who all had something, our boys in the golden years were just awesomely talented, The Meath team of the early 90s a great never say die team, the Tyrone lads the fiercest competitors, our naughties bunch were very talented, if lacking the killer instinct of the previous great Kerry team. This current Dublin team are probably the most composed and professional I've seen, with certainly the best management team and ethos that draws the best out of them.

I think this team are becoming a very special team of players. All the other teams mentioned, great and all as they are, never have been tested and tortured by our game like this current bunch of Mayo lads. For a team to suffer the heartbreak of losing an All-Ireland twice in succession - it would have finished quite a few teams off. For them to then lose two replayed All-Ireland semi-finals in the cruellest of ways is devastating. Yet these lads dust themselves off and go again. To be only separated by 1 point after 160-odd minutes from an apparently invincible Dublin team is some achievement.

This is a team that you can see will no longer bend the knee, will not take a step back, will not submit to defeat, and would die rather than give in. In truth, watching the game, it didn't feel like Dublin beat Mayo, only the clock did. You knew Mayo were coming back but Dublin have a handy knack of being ahead when the ref blows it up as we know to our cost lately here in the Kingdom.

You are so, so close to the line. I saw it in Dublin in 2011 in the league - they had run out of ways to lose and winning the All Ireland was an inevitability. I avoided going to the final as I didn't want to witness Dublin defeat us. Mayo are now I believe at that point.
If they can come back next year undaunted, they will be by far the most courageous team I have ever seen play the game. What have they to fear from defeat when it has thrown its worst at them and they refuse to yield. The only comparison I can draw is not with sport but with the exploits of Shackleton and Crean, who never gave up despite the harshest of setbacks. This is a team of goddam heroes and I, as a football fan, am immensely proud of them. Maigh Eo Abu.

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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