Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

seligehgit

PressRun wrote: »

Akram is still very young, no? Would he be brought into the fold already?

Yes he is quite young,heck so were Cillian and Diarmuid.:) Even a winter of strength and conditioning and run out in the FBD?

Matthew Ruane warrants a look at too.Great potential.

Although Ger Cafferkey and Jason Gibbons are likely to back next year I'd hope Stephen Rochford would experiment as much as feasible in the FBD and league.

PressRun

Could see him being brought in for S&C next year, most definitely. I believe there were a couple of others from the U21 squad involved with the S&C programme already this year, hopefully being primed for properly getting in the mix next year.

I would like to see experimentation in the league, though I see some people are saying we should have a proper crack at winning the league next year. It won't be possible to do both though, I don't think.

PARlance

Irwin, Ruane & Hall.... jez, I know one or two on here that couldn't handle that. Aido will have questions to answer if he doesn't win Sam after bringing them in.

seligehgit

PARlance wrote: »

Irwin, Ruane & Hall.... jez, I know one or two on here that couldn't handle that. Aido will have questions to answer if he doesn't win Sam after bringing them in.

Forgot about young Michael Hall!

Haileunlikely

PhoneMain wrote: »

Who would have started? Coen? Regan? Conor O'Shea?

Yes exactly, maybe Barry Moran
conor O'Shea looked full of energy

Fr Tod Umptious

Rochforcd eaten alive for one change to the team now there are folks suggesting he did not change it enough, weird.

RobbieRuns

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Rochforcd eaten alive for one change to the team now there are folks suggesting he did not change it enough, weird.

Not weird at all. pretty standard for a team that has lost and being discussed on a board forum. Easy in hindsight for problem solving.

It was a big call, if they lost, which they did Rochford gets lots of stick, if it had gone the other way he was a genius and a master tactician. He knows the score as a manager, comes with the territory.

Haileunlikely

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Rochforcd eaten alive for one change to the team now there are folks suggesting he did not change it enough, weird.

Not weird at all. pretty standard for a team that has lost and being discussed on a board forum. Easy in hindsight for problem solving.

It was a big call, if they lost, which they did Rochford gets lots of stick, if it had gone the other way he was a genius and a master tactician. He knows the score as a manager, comes with the territory.

Even though Mayo had 2 weeks to recover before the replay, it would have been good to freshen it up
I still think we would have been in the game after 50 mins and this is when you need that final push, big impact
It comes back to squad, we need to have a really competitive squad and use it to the full, hate to compare to the dubs all the time but look who he left on the bench and the impact that made at the end
we need to have someone to challenge in every position, no one's place guaranteed

PARlance

There's an article in The Examiner from Dr. Ed Coughlan with the title: The biggest obstacle between Mayo and glory, their location.

I'm not even going to link the article. The gist of it is that we're at such a disadvantage with our lads working / studing in Dublin as we can't train together as much etc.

The most laughable part is that he highlights Dublin (fair enough to a point) and Kerry (???) as not having that problem. Ideally everyone would be close by, but it's hardly the biggest obstacle ffs. It's not exactly easy or quick to get around Dublin either.

Aren't most of the team fairly close to home anyway?
I don't know all the players jobs / locations but for those that I do, the majority are all well within the county or surrounding counties.

jmayo

PressRun wrote: »

Akram is still very young, no? Would he be brought into the fold already?

This is a bit of a thing often and has also plagued things like the Irish rugby setup.
Talent not age should be the deciding factor.

Look at Waterford hurling senior panel.
They have a rake of under 21s and they have pushed on their development.
Granted a fair few of them are very talented.
Last night the guys on Newstalk were saying it was so noticable how beefed up they were, due to involvement with senior panel, in comparison to the Galway under 21 panel and hence they hammered them.
Clare did it as well.

harpsman

Hi folks. Commiserations on another heartbreak. Gutted for the players and particularly Hennelly-Im sure hes sufferring at the moment. You do have a team to be hugely proud of even if this group never win Sam they will be remembered fondly by all supporters. I do think the decision to drop Clarke was a bad move and alot of people were very worried about it before the game for reasons that became apparent so I dont think its just a case of saying had it worked he would be a genius-the potential reward for starting Hennelly was not worth the risk that things would go awry like they did.

Unfortunately this Mayo team like alot in the past have lots of fantastic footballers around the middle 8 but lack an outstanding full back and full forward. The lack of top quality in the forwards was what really cost them on Saturday, just couldnt get the scores as easily as the Dubs-mind it helps when you have the bench they have.

On the cards John Small should have been black carded, Jason Doherty should have been sent off for an assault off the ball after the goal. Keegan and Cooper bit unlucky but both technically black cards-what was Keegan thinking, there was no need to foul Connolly there-there was plenty to do just to get a point and it wasnt a goal chance at all. Connoly should have got black for the check on Vaughan and Brogan later. Didnt see how the O Connor/Small fight started. Is it just me or did anyone else think that Hennelly knocked the ball out of Andrews hand and hence no pen?
TBH I think Dublin would have won anyway-i think they were always capable of getting the scores when needed.

Anyway, while I dont think Mayo will win it next season and great players like Higgins and Moran, and Dillon might have missed the boat i think with the injection of some new blood from the u21s Mayo will be back and will win an All Ireland within 5 years:)

RobbieRuns

Without wanting to get into a long discussion on the matter there harpsman. I disagree completely on your assessment of the Lee Keegan situation. I am from Galway and was like lots of others 100% shouting for Mayo and probably more so than in previous years, they are a great team and to come back from the loss against Galway showed great character.

I feel the incident with Lee was a game changer and it saddened me no end. I can congratulate Dublin, they are the best team in Ireland, but they were going to win easily the first day, then it was "they will never play that bad again" in the replay. Never enough respect shown to Mayo in my opinion, it was all about Dublin.

There was an exchange of views with someone after the drawn game about if Keegan would stop man marking Connolly and get free he would be shown up as the lesser footballer and I disagreed saying that Lee is the better all round footballer, which I still believe is true and when he broke free to attack and score that goal he showed pure class and helped my argument. Lee was doing, as always, all that he could for the team. Rather than Lee trying to get Connolly sent off (which he could have done in the first game), it was the other way round. I can even take that he went to ground easily when he felt Keegan near him, but diving and trying to gain advantage people seem to accept nowadays, but...... to get up off the ground, sprint to the ref and start waving an imaginary card in his face? Nah, not acceptable for me. Worse than soccer.

Connolly took his penalty well, he is a good footballer, some will say that he does whatever it takes to win. I do not like it. He is not what the GAA and gaelic football should be about, it is not what sport is about. Dublin are a fantastic team, but so are Mayo. Lee Keegan is twice the man that Connolly is.

Haileunlikely

harpsman wrote: »

On the cards John Small should have been black carded, Jason Doherty should have been sent off for an assault off the ball after the goal. Keegan and Cooper bit unlucky but both technically black cards-what was Keegan thinking, there was no need to foul Connolly there-there was plenty to do just to get a point and it wasnt a goal chance at all. Connoly should have got black for the check on Vaughan and Brogan later. Didnt see how the O Connor/Small fight started.

It all kicked of just before half time
Mayo made a good turn over and were on the counter attack, Dublin out of position
Connolly took out Vaughan
Small took out O'Connor and prevented him getting up
Cynical fouling - not to concede before half time

km79

Haileunlikely wrote: »

It all kicked of just before half time
Mayo made a good turn over and were on the counter attack, Dublin out of position
Connolly took out Vaughan
Small took out O'Connor and prevented him getting up
Cynical fouling - not to concede before half time

Vaughan going off on top of Keegan was the losing of the game

Stoner

PARlance wrote:

The most laughable part is that he highlights Dublin (fair enough to a point) and Kerry (???) as not having that problem. Ideally everyone would be close by, but it's hardly the biggest obstacle ffs. It's not exactly easy or quick to get around Dublin either.

Without opening up a can of worms.

But dont a lot of counties have "Dublin sessions" Mayo do I think.

Isn't the new centre of excellence available for that very thing. For the Kerry , Cork, Kilkenny, Tip ,Mayo teams Dublin Sessions, I'm sure there's more, I think Donegal have them too.

PARlance

Stoner wrote: »

Without opening up a can of worms.

But dont a lot of counties have "Dublin sessions" Mayo do I think.

Isn't the new centre of excellence available for that very thing. For the Kerry , Cork, Kilkenny, Tip ,Mayo teams Dublin Sessions, I'm sure there's more, I think Donegal have them too.

They do and it was mentioned in the article... but they were seen as a big disadvantage. While there may be a tiny bit of merit in the article it really just is a pile of post Mayo defeat poo.

He describes organising things for the replay as a "logistical nightmare" that we've to deal with....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-biggest-obstacle-between-mayo-and-glory-their-location-424072.html

Kalyke

PARlance wrote: »

They do and it was mentioned in the article... but they were seen as a big disadvantage. While there may be a tiny bit of merit in the article it really just is a pile of post Mayo defeat poo.

He describes organising things for the replay as a "logistical nightmare" that we've to deal with....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-biggest-obstacle-between-mayo-and-glory-their-location-424072.html

Coughlan is not a Mayo man.

flasher0030

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Without wanting to get into a long discussion on the matter there harpsman. I disagree completely on your assessment of the Lee Keegan situation. I am from Galway and was like lots of others 100% shouting for Mayo and probably more so than in previous years, they are a great team and to come back from the loss against Galway showed great character.

I feel the incident with Lee was a game changer and it saddened me no end. I can congratulate Dublin, they are the best team in Ireland, but they were going to win easily the first day, then it was "they will never play that bad again" in the replay. Never enough respect shown to Mayo in my opinion, it was all about Dublin.

There was an exchange of views with someone after the drawn game about if Keegan would stop man marking Connolly and get free he would be shown up as the lesser footballer and I disagreed saying that Lee is the better all round footballer, which I still believe is true and when he broke free to attack and score that goal he showed pure class and helped my argument. Lee was doing, as always, all that he could for the team. Rather than Lee trying to get Connolly sent off (which he could have done in the first game), it was the other way round. I can even take that he went to ground easily when he felt Keegan near him, but diving and trying to gain advantage people seem to accept nowadays, but...... to get up off the ground, sprint to the ref and start waving an imaginary card in his face? Nah, not acceptable for me. Worse than soccer.

Connolly took his penalty well, he is a good footballer, some will say that he does whatever it takes to win. I do not like it. He is not what the GAA and gaelic football should be about, it is not what sport is about. Dublin are a fantastic team, but so are Mayo. Lee Keegan is twice the man that Connolly is.

Why is it not acceptable? Connolly saw a goal-scoring opportunity and went for it. Keegan didn’t expect Hennelly to mess up the kick-out, and was probably half-thinking of a break up-field or at least to make himself free for a pass from the intended recipient of the kick-out. When he saw that Dublin had it, and Connolly was ahead of him towards his own goal, he panicked. Tried to hold Connolly back but it went wrong. He had his hand on his shoulder and Connolly went down. Looked like a drag down. It was all split-second decision making. In hindsight, he could have caught hold of his jersey and it would have been yellow card.

Point is it wasn’t Connolly that got Keegan the black card. It was Keegan himself. Why shouldn’t Connolly point that out to the ref. He was denied a goal-scoring chance by foul play. Every week, we see refs not giving cards when they should i.e. The John Small lack of black card. Why would Connolly just stay silent, and hope that the ref makes the right call – but knowing that there is a good chance that the ref could bottle it in an All-Ireland replay.

This notion that it’s cowardly to be influencing the ref is bullshlt. Connolly was clearly incensed about that incident as he knew it was cynical. The challenge by Lee should have been and was punished accordingly. If a keeper feels a ball has gone wide, he makes a gesture to the umpires, waving his arms wide to show his opinion. If a player feels their jersey is being pulled, they make that gesture to the ref to inform the ref. Connolly felt it was a card offence on Saturday, and he made the appropriate gesture to the ref. This machoism that “thy cannot get thy opponent into trouble with the ref” is rubbish. It is completely different if a player gestures to a ref about an opponent, and if the player gesturing is playacting i.e. pretending or exaggerating a foul.

Surely it is more cowardly by Keegan to have carried out foul play in the first instance.
I’m not biased in this, by the way. I had my red and Green jersey on the Hill on Saturday.

washman3

Good post. At least somebody is willing to remove the blinkers.!!

jmayo

flasher0030 wrote: »

Why is it not acceptable? Connolly saw a goal-scoring opportunity and went for it. Keegan didn’t expect Hennelly to mess up the kick-out, and was probably half-thinking of a break up-field or at least to make himself free for a pass from the intended recipient of the kick-out. When he saw that Dublin had it, and Connolly was ahead of him towards his own goal, he panicked. Tried to hold Connolly back but it went wrong. He had his hand on his shoulder and Connolly went down. Looked like a drag down. It was all split-second decision making. In hindsight, he could have caught hold of his jersey and it would have been yellow card.

Point is it wasn’t Connolly that got Keegan the black card. It was Keegan himself. Why shouldn’t Connolly point that out to the ref. He was denied a goal-scoring chance by foul play. Every week, we see refs not giving cards when they should i.e. The John Small lack of black card. Why would Connolly just stay silent, and hope that the ref makes the right call – but knowing that there is a good chance that the ref could bottle it in an All-Ireland replay.

This notion that it’s cowardly to be influencing the ref is bullshlt. Connolly was clearly incensed about that incident as he knew it was cynical. The challenge by Lee should have been and was punished accordingly. If a keeper feels a ball has gone wide, he makes a gesture to the umpires, waving his arms wide to show his opinion. If a player feels their jersey is being pulled, they make that gesture to the ref to inform the ref. Connolly felt it was a card offence on Saturday, and he made the appropriate gesture to the ref. This machoism that “thy cannot get thy opponent into trouble with the ref” is rubbish. It is completely different if a player gestures to a ref about an opponent, and if the player gesturing is playacting i.e. pretending or exaggerating a foul.

Surely it is more cowardly by Keegan to have carried out foul play in the first instance.
I’m not biased in this, by the way. I had my red and Green jersey on the Hill on Saturday.

Was that red and green jersey under a blue one ?

Needles73

flasher0030 wrote: »

Why is it not acceptable? Connolly saw a goal-scoring opportunity and went for it. Keegan didn’t expect Hennelly to mess up the kick-out, and was probably half-thinking of a break up-field or at least to make himself free for a pass from the intended recipient of the kick-out. When he saw that Dublin had it, and Connolly was ahead of him towards his own goal, he panicked. Tried to hold Connolly back but it went wrong. He had his hand on his shoulder and Connolly went down. Looked like a drag down. It was all split-second decision making. In hindsight, he could have caught hold of his jersey and it would have been yellow card.

Point is it wasn’t Connolly that got Keegan the black card. It was Keegan himself. Why shouldn’t Connolly point that out to the ref. He was denied a goal-scoring chance by foul play. Every week, we see refs not giving cards when they should i.e. The John Small lack of black card. Why would Connolly just stay silent, and hope that the ref makes the right call – but knowing that there is a good chance that the ref could bottle it in an All-Ireland replay.

This notion that it’s cowardly to be influencing the ref is bullshlt. Connolly was clearly incensed about that incident as he knew it was cynical. The challenge by Lee should have been and was punished accordingly. If a keeper feels a ball has gone wide, he makes a gesture to the umpires, waving his arms wide to show his opinion. If a player feels their jersey is being pulled, they make that gesture to the ref to inform the ref. Connolly felt it was a card offence on Saturday, and he made the appropriate gesture to the ref. This machoism that “thy cannot get thy opponent into trouble with the ref” is rubbish. It is completely different if a player gestures to a ref about an opponent, and if the player gesturing is playacting i.e. pretending or exaggerating a foul.

Surely it is more cowardly by Keegan to have carried out foul play in the first instance.
I’m not biased in this, by the way. I had my red and Green jersey on the Hill on Saturday.

That's all great and I have no big gripe with Connolly. So which of the 5 black card offences did Lee commit ? The answer is none. Cynical play is a yellow card unless one of the 5 specifically identified as black in the rule book.

glack

Stoner wrote: »

Without opening up a can of worms.

But don't a lot of counties have "Dublin sessions" Mayo do I think.

Isn't the new centre of excellence available for that very thing. For the Kerry , Cork, Kilkenny, Tip ,Mayo teams Dublin Sessions, I'm sure there's more, I think Donegal have them too.

During the league yes, but in the run up to big championship matches they travel mid-week as well as weekends as far as I know. Not ideal as lads are travelling down after work, training and then back on the road afterwards arriving back pretty late and then off to work the next morning. I'm pretty sure they travel together by bus which at least means they're not driving.

These Dublin sessions mean that you don't have your full squad together mid week making it much more difficult.

glack

PARlance wrote: »

There's an article in The Examiner from Dr. Ed Coughlan with the title: The biggest obstacle between Mayo and glory, their location.

I'm not even going to link the article. The gist of it is that we're at such a disadvantage with our lads working / studing in Dublin as we can't train together as much etc.

The most laughable part is that he highlights Dublin (fair enough to a point) and Kerry (???) as not having that problem. Ideally everyone would be close by, but it's hardly the biggest obstacle ffs. It's not exactly easy or quick to get around Dublin either.

Aren't most of the team fairly close to home anyway?
I don't know all the players jobs / locations but for those that I do, the majority are all well within the county or surrounding counties.

I remember reading before that the entire Kerry panel lived at the time in either Kerry or Cork so that's why Kerry is listed.

Obviously travelling to training is difficult for every team but you can't compare travelling across the city to travelling across the country. These players do that at least once every week and twice during championship. Travelling to training, being fit to train after 3-4 hours in a car/bus, then travelling back that night is no joke! Must put huge pressure on their work also. No idea what they do during the league - train in Dublin mid-week, Mayo on the Friday night, possibly travel an away game and back to Dublin? Or do they just go straight to the game and back to Dublin afterwards? That would mean the team never train all together during those weeks.

A fairly substantial number of Mayo players work or study in Dublin. I think the U21 players in college there train with them also which bulks up the numbers for Dublin sessions.

PARlance

glack wrote: »

During the league yes, but in the run up to big championship matches they travel mid-week as well as weekends as far as I know. Not ideal as lads are travelling down after work, training and then back on the road afterwards arriving back pretty late and then off to work the next morning. I'm pretty sure they travel together by bus which at least means they're not driving.

These Dublin sessions mean that you don't have your full squad together mid week making it much more difficult.

Not sure if it has changed this year but the collective Tuesday sessions used to start in May. A mini bus brings them down and back on the Tuesday night. It's not ideal but it's hardly our biggest obstacle as that article suggests.

tacofries

A few years back didnt tom parsons travel back from scotland every week to train!?

harpsman

Needles73 wrote: »

That's all great and I have no big gripe with Connolly. So which of the 5 black card offences did Lee commit ? The answer is none. Cynical play is a yellow card unless one of the 5 specifically identified as black in the rule book.

1 To deliberately pull down an opponent


Couldnt be much more clearcut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlAsW2-ZF4

km79

harpsman wrote: »

1 To deliberately pull down an opponent


Couldnt be much more clearcut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlAsW2-ZF4

I have not watched game back
First time I seen that
I feel sick now
There is no way that's a black
Well played Diarmuid

Needles73

harpsman wrote: »

1 To deliberately pull down an opponent


Couldnt be much more clearcut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlAsW2-ZF4

If you think that was a pull down then your easily fooled - ref bought it hook line and sinker

tacofries

km79 wrote: »

I have not watched game back
First time I seen that
I feel sick now
There is no way that's a black
Well played Diarmuid

Once you watch it back you'll see that the dubs deserved at least one other black card, possibly 2. A good few calls went against us.

km79

Also has anyone confirmed how Parsons picked up a cut that required stitches before half time ?
Around the same time Donie got concussed ?
Ah who cares at least their shirts didn't get ripped cos that's the worst type of foul play now apparently
Damn it I'm annoyed now