2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

ancapailldorcha · 22-09-2016 08:19PM

Unsurprising. The American right seems to hate Clinton more than anyone else so this makes sense. Anyone else with the Democratic nomination would like sail through this election.

Suryavarman · 22-09-2016 08:19PM

Amerika wrote: »

Yes it was answered. We seem to have hit an impasse. I think it best to agree to disagree at this point.

You clearly didn't address anything in my post. Everyone in this forum is used to you ignoring people when they point out that you're wrong so I guess it is best to agree to disagree.

KingBrian2 · 22-09-2016 08:22PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

A recent poll found that in North Carolina, Trump supporters have a better opinion of David Duke than they have of Hillary Clinton:

This result isn't surprising given the strong racist sentiment among Trump's base.

There is such a thing as hate against Islam. Their should also be a thing called hate against Trump since so many on here and in the media are very much haters of Trump.

oscarBravo · 22-09-2016 08:22PM

Amerika wrote: »

When was the last time you were in a inner city of the US. People of all colors here belong to gangs. Most are not hard to identify by appearance, dress, and tattoo as being gang related. I was in Philadelphia the other week. I saw gangs of several ethnicities.

Come on, be honest: do you think stop-and-frisk would be such a controversial issue if only gang members were being picked on?

Do you think there would be an all-but-nil prosecution rate from stop-and-frisk if only gang members were being picked on?

And I was "randomly" searched in Miami airport. Last time I wear a NY Jets shirt there. TSA agent asked me... Are you crazy?

I've been randomly searched a number of times too. About as many times, in fact, as you'd expect if I was truly being randomly selected - in other words, about as often as you'd expect a white guy to be randomly searched.

By contrast, I recall reading about a Muslim-American who was "randomly" selected for screening every time he traveled.

Every. Single. Time.

It's easy for a middle-class white guy to say that stop-and-frisk is only aimed at obvious gang members, just like it's easy for him to say that supplemental security screening is truly random.

The word "privilege" is scoffed at, but only ever by people of privilege.

ancapailldorcha · 22-09-2016 08:23PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

There is such a thing as hate against Islam. Their should also be a thing called hate against Trump since so many on here and in the media are very much haters of Trump.

Are you seriously comparing Islamophobia with negative comments about a privileged billionaire?

oscarBravo · 22-09-2016 08:25PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing Islamophobia with negative comments about a privileged billionaire?

Especially considering that Islamophobia is irrational.

PopePalpatine · 22-09-2016 08:26PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

There is such a thing as hate against Islam. Their should also be a thing called hate against Trump since so many on here and in the media are very much haters of Trump.

Something only gets classified as a "-phobia" if it's a fear that is excessive and unreasonable - neither of which applies to the fear of a Trump reign.

Suryavarman · 22-09-2016 08:35PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

There is such a thing as hate against Islam. Their should also be a thing called hate against Trump since so many on here and in the media are very much haters of Trump.

So the fact that Trump supporters have a more favourable view of a KKK Grand Wizard than Hillary Clinton is down to the media being "haters"?

K-9 · 22-09-2016 08:49PM

This election really is fcuked up!

KingBrian2 · 22-09-2016 08:50PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

So the fact that Trump supporters have a more favourable view of a KKK Grand Wizard than Hillary Clinton is down to the media being "haters"?

Trump has a wide variety of supporters. Not all Trump supporters are fascists. That is plain racism. You discredit all about him when his views resonate with a lot of working class people, a number of celebrities and a great many that have been left behind by globalization.

Trumps views are in line with a number of Libertarian schools of thought in the US in which the gvt is more harm than friend. Even socialist movements are incredible outraged by the abuse of gvt. The issues is the link between the abuse of gvt and the volatility of stock markets.

Trump does not have all the answers. He does know how markets work and that the gvt's role in the economy has caused as much problems as other factors and the world needs a fiscal approach that the Democrats won't listen to.

ancapailldorcha · 22-09-2016 08:58PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Especially considering that Islamophobia is irrational.

Trump has behaved quite irrationally as well. Not that it matters to his fanbase of course.

ancapailldorcha · 22-09-2016 09:01PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump has a wide variety of supporters. Not all Trump supporters are fascists. That is plain racism. You discredit all about him when his views resonate with a lot of working class people, a number of celebrities and a great many that have been left behind by globalization.

Trump supporters are a race now? Of course some people have been left behind by globalisation but this doesn't make Trump supporters a race.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump does not have all the answers. He does know how markets work and that the gvt's role in the economy has caused as much problems as other factors and the world needs a fiscal approach that the Democrats won't listen to.

So far he's run multiple businesses into bankruptcy, starred in a reality show, has a flagship policy which is unfeasible and his Universities are under federal investigation. I'm seeing no evidence of skill or acuity here.

InTheTrees · 22-09-2016 09:07PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump does not have all the answers. He does know how markets work and that the gvt's role in the economy has caused as much problems as other factors and the world needs a fiscal approach that the Democrats won't listen to.

It was the government that made those favourable US bankruptcy laws that have kept trump out of prison.

If he'd declared as many bankruptcies in Europe he'd be assigned a court minder who would oversee him paying back every penny.

As it is he just walks away from his debts and they're left to the US taxpayer.

K-9 · 22-09-2016 09:08PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump has a wide variety of supporters. Not all Trump supporters are fascists. That is plain racism. You discredit all about him when his views resonate with a lot of working class people, a number of celebrities and a great many that have been left behind by globalization.

Trumps views are in line with a number of Libertarian schools of thought in the US in which the gvt is more harm than friend. Even socialist movements are incredible outraged by the abuse of gvt. The issues is the link between the abuse of gvt and the volatility of stock markets.

Trump does not have all the answers. He does know how markets work and that the gvt's role in the economy has caused as much problems as other factors and the world needs a fiscal approach that the Democrats won't listen to.

Trump's proposals have been costed at about $6 trillion, that is in no way, shape or form Libertarianism, not even close. If it was Johnson wouldn't be doing so well in polls.

Suryavarman · 22-09-2016 09:19PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump has a wide variety of supporters. Not all Trump supporters are fascists. That is plain racism. You discredit all about him when his views resonate with a lot of working class people, a number of celebrities and a great many that have been left behind by globalization.

Trump's views resonate with them because they are stupid/racist.

Trumps views are in line with a number of Libertarian schools of thought in the US in which the gvt is more harm than friend. Even socialist movements are incredible outraged by the abuse of gvt. The issues is the link between the abuse of gvt and the volatility of stock markets.

Trump's views aren't in line with any libertarian school of thought. Unless you want to count the white supremacists over at LewRockwell.com as libertarians.

Trump does not have all the answers. He does know how markets work and that the gvt's role in the economy has caused as much problems as other factors and the world needs a fiscal approach that the Democrats won't listen to.

I agree that greater deficit spending could be beneficial. I believe the massive deficits Trump proposes could be very damaging though.

Rjd2 · 22-09-2016 09:30PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing Islamophobia with negative comments about a privileged billionaire?

Can you supply any recent links that prove Donald is a billionaire?:o

PopePalpatine · 22-09-2016 09:31PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

So the fact that Trump supporters have a more favourable view of a KKK Grand Wizard than Hillary Clinton is down to the media being "haters"?

Nah, it's more that Brian wants to drag this thread off on a tangent rather than stomach criticism of his perma-fake-tanned idol.

KingBrian2 · 22-09-2016 09:35PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Trump supporters are a race now? Of course some people have been left behind by globalisation but this doesn't make Trump supporters a race.

So far he's run multiple businesses into bankruptcy, starred in a reality show, has a flagship policy which is unfeasible and his Universities are under federal investigation. I'm seeing no evidence of skill or acuity here.

The implications made is that those who support the KKK are Trump voters. People will support Trump because the other parties don't represent them. People from all backgrounds back Trump on reducing the deficit and making America a safe place to live in and a place in which wealth is earned.

Sorry if you don't like to hear this but Americans don't want handouts. Trump appeals to those conservatives that believe in hard work and the idea that the gvt does not get involved in your personal lives. The gvt is a bad word in many parts of America for good reasons.

It was state repression against the civil rights activists. President Eisenhower was a great champion to these people so the characteristic of Trump as a racist are so out of place it does the GOP a disserve to state such untruths. It would be like calling Lincoln a racist because he was willing to work with slave-owners.

Overheal · 22-09-2016 09:38PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

I have looked. I cannot see any video anywhere of Hillary setting out her policy objectives. Telling people in Michigan that she was going to protect the rust belt would only count if she set out the plan for doing so. All i have heard are meaningless soundbites.

However, she is the real proper candidate so i am sure there is somewhere. Your two links - the first takes me to a google search and the second takes me to her website. Call my cynical but Hillary isnt a web designer and didn't design her website.

I want to see Clinton exhibiting the smarts on policy issues that are going to definitely win her the debates. Can you point me to a video of such?

Peist2007 wrote: »

No i don't care for transcripts or statements released by her website. I want to see some video of Hillary discussing her policy objectives (in relative depth). I know that is something Trump is definitely unable to do but Hillary is the "serious" candidate of the two so i figure there will be some footage of some questions on policy being answered fully?

Would you like that in spoken word, prose, musical duet? I really don't understand why it's necessary to hear her read aloud what is written.

I will ignore all of your responses to this post unless they are in the form of youtube vlogs of yourself in your bedroom with a wooly hat on. #HowYourLogicSounds

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump has a wide variety of supporters. Not all Trump supporters are fascists.

When you have to defend your camp by saying that, you've pretty much admitted defeat.

That is plain racism.

I don't think you know what racism is.

You discredit all about him when his views resonate with a lot of working class people, a number of celebrities and a great many that have been left behind by globalization.

That's the Bandwagon Fallacy:

"The flaw in this argument is that the popularity of an idea has absolutely no bearing on its validity. If it did, then the Earth would have made itself flat for most of history to accommodate this popular belief."

Trumps views are in line with a number of Libertarian schools of thought in the US in which the gvt is more harm than friend. Even socialist movements are incredible outraged by the abuse of gvt. The issues is the link between the abuse of gvt and the volatility of stock markets.

Could you at all enumerate which 'schools of libertarian thought' Donald Trump's views fall under? Libertarianism believes in personal responsibility, free market forces, and extremely limited government. How does deporting 11 million estimated illegals, building a massive wall, expanding the role of border patrol and immigration services, expanding the role of the military, expressing a desire to expand laws against unfavorable journalism, abandoning economic treaties and engaging in economic protectionism, in line with any school of Libertarianism? I await with bated scholar's breath.

Trump does not have all the answers. He does know how markets work and that the gvt's role in the economy has caused as much problems as other factors and the world needs a fiscal approach that the Democrats won't listen to.

Which fiscal approach is that? Cut taxes and raise spending?

K-9 · 22-09-2016 09:39PM

The government doesn't get involved in personal lives except abortion. Reducing the deficit by spending €6 trillion more.
That post doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

Terumpism is its own type of politics, it isn't Libertarianism or traditional Republicanism anyway, as much as people like to think it is.

KingBrian2 · 22-09-2016 09:45PM

K-9 wrote: »

The government doesn't get involved in personal lives except abortion. Reducing the deficit by spending €6 trillion more.

That post doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

The US government gets involved in all sorts. The US military is major part of the Southern Economy and immigration patrols are a big part of America's economy. Washington spends vast sums of money on all aspects of American lives. They pay for NATO. NASA is also gvt funded. Major projects were also American gvt financed. The bailout of the banks. Medicine for Americans. Trump has a case when he says the gvt wastes a hell of a lot and to hear posters come on here and say "Oh no America is very responsible, not spending much here". Trumps policies are not as expensive as current policies.

A trade deficit with a China with a billion people. That is what I call a National disgrace.

Suryavarman · 22-09-2016 09:47PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

A trade deficit with a China with a billion people. That is what I call a National disgrace.

How so?

PopePalpatine · 22-09-2016 09:49PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The US government gets involved in all sorts. The US military is major part of the Southern Economy and immigration patrols are a big part of America's economy. Washington spends vast sums of money on all aspects of American lives. They pay for NATO. NASA is also gvt funded. Major projects were also American gvt financed. The bailout of the banks. Medicine for Americans. Trump has a case when he says the gvt wastes a hell of a lot and to hear posters come on here and say "Oh no America is very responsible, not spending much here". Trumps policies are not as expensive as current policies.

A trade deficit with a China with a billion people. That is what I call a National disgrace.

You need to take your head out of the Trump bubble.

KingBrian2 · 22-09-2016 09:51PM

"Going down the road Joe to buy my 4x4 , that's right purpose built and MADE IN CHINA."

K-9 · 22-09-2016 09:51PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The US government gets involved in all sorts. The US military is major part of the Southern Economy and immigration patrols are a big part of America's economy. Washington spends vast sums of money on all aspects of American lives. They pay for NATO. NASA is also gvt funded. Major projects were also American gvt financed. The bailout of the banks. Medicine for Americans. Trump has a case when he says the gvt wastes a hell of a lot and to hear posters come on here and say "Oh no America is very responsible, not spending much here". Trumps policies are not as expensive as current policies.

A trade deficit with a China with a billion people. That is what I call a National disgrace.

Why are you championing the guy who wants to spend €6 trillion more then?

I think you're verging on soap boxing or even ranting at this stage brian. You aren't engaging with other posters on here anyway.

Overheal · 22-09-2016 09:55PM

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget has released a report analyzing the proposed fiscal policies of candidates Clinton and Trump.

If congress plays along, nobody flies off the handle on a tweet and starts new wars in Syira, $6T more doesn't go missing in the Pentagon, etc etc. then of the 2 candidates, Clinton's plan would impact the debt over 10 years by adding $200,000,000,000.00 to it. Donald Trump's plan would add to it... $5,300,000,000,000. For those keeping score at home, Clinton's policies trump Trump by a miserly 26.5:1 ratio.

Most of Trump's losses come from promised tax cuts, which over the next 10 years would add $4.5T to the debt. Hillary's plan equally cancels out increased social spending with increased taxing to accommodate it: +$1.55T -$1.55T. Her policies actual save the country money on her immigration reform platform, and essentially her $200bn comes from additional health care policy reforms.

http://crfb.org/sites/default/files/Promises_and_Price_Tags_Preliminary_Update.pdf

You can all read it for yourselves but if you're beating your drum how Trump is going to do this and that, you may especially want to check the math on it.

Overheal · 22-09-2016 09:56PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

A trade deficit with a China with a billion people. That is what I call a National disgrace.

Perhaps you should be in the business of selling things that China wants then?

KingBrian2 · 22-09-2016 09:59PM

K-9 wrote: »

Why are you championing the guy who wants to spend €6 trillion more then?

I think you're verging on soap boxing or even ranting at this stage brian. You aren't engaging with other posters on here anyway.

The argument posted is that Trump is some kind of racist extremist. I strongly believe he is not as extreme as popular myth about him is. All hyperbole designed to humiliate Mr Trump and the vicious attacks on his supporters is offensive to the American public. In business you have no friends. Competitors, business rivals & political opportunists are jumping on in when he has made important contributions to everyday American lives.

Suryavarman · 22-09-2016 09:59PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

"Going down the road Joe to buy my 4x4 , that's right purpose built and MADE IN CHINA."

Is there something wrong with that?

Overheal · 22-09-2016 10:01PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The argument posted is that Trump is some kind of racist extremist. I strongly believe he is not as extreme as popular myth about him is. All hyperbole designed to humiliate Mr Trump and the vicious attacks on his supporters is offensive to the American public. In business you have no friends. Competitors, business rivals & political opportunists are jumping on in when he has made important contributions to everyday American lives.

http://gawker.com/the-collected-quotes-of-donald-trump-on-the-blacks-1719961925

“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“Laziness is a trait in blacks.”

Oh yeah, it's hard to see why he has such glowing support from the Klu Klux Klan.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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