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2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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Comments

  • #1622
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Apparently Trump's proposed answer to the strained relationships between police and black communities is... (wait for it...)

    ...expanding stop-and-frisk nationwide.

    It really is hard sometimes to avoid the feeling that his entire campaign is one long parody.


  • #1623
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    Suryavarman wrote: »
    The proof is in the pudding. He consorts with people that have sexual relations with underage girls and refuses to release tax records that would either prove or disprove that he donates to NAMBLA. He's also probably attracted to his daughter, and since she was young too. I think it's very worrying that so many people are supporting somebody that's got such strong links to paedophilia.

    Clinton is married to and has stood by,for decades,a man who has had a litany of rape and sexual assault allegations made against him.He has also flown dozens of times on Epsteins "Lolita Express".People in glass houses etc..?


  • #1624
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,107 ✭✭✭Christy42


    fran17 wrote: »
    Clinton is married to and has stood by,for decades,a man who has had a litany of rape and sexual assault allegations made against him.He has also flown dozens of times on Epsteins "Lolita Express".People in glass houses etc..?

    How about we throw stones at both their glass houses? Seems like a much better idea to me especially given the seriousness of the allegations. Seriously by protecting our less hated candidate we let both away with their crimes.

    I still feel that Hillary Clinton's actions are not as bad as Trump's (accusedly given neither have been found guilty). Hillary Clinton has stood by an accused rapist.

    Donald Trump is an accused paedophile. The difference is obvious to me. Even if it is a pretty bad choice.


  • #1625
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Apparently Trump's proposed answer to the strained relationships between police and black communities is... (wait for it...)

    ...expanding stop-and-frisk nationwide.

    It really is hard sometimes to avoid the feeling that his entire campaign is one long parody.

    He's got this guy's vote anyway!

    https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/778809933840076801?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke


  • #1626
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    Christy42 wrote: »
    How about we throw stones at both their glass houses? Seems like a much better idea to me especially given the seriousness of the allegations. Seriously by protecting our less hated candidate we let both away with their crimes.

    I still feel that Hillary Clinton's actions are not as bad as Trump's (accusedly given neither have been found guilty). Hillary Clinton has stood by an accused rapist.

    Donald Trump is an accused paedophile. The difference is obvious to me. Even if it is a pretty bad choice.

    I think it's indicative of the entire presidential election this time round,a nasty race to the bottom.Most heinous allegations that Trump will have to address however Clinton running on the "cracking the glass ceiling" rethoric,given her husbands infidelity and numerous sex abuse allegations,is an insult to all women seeking equality.The thoughts of those two grifters back in the white house abusing the presidential office,as the state department was,for financial gain really would be sad.


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  • #1627
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    fran17 wrote: »
    I think it's indicative of the entire presidential election this time round,a nasty race to the bottom.Most heinous allegations that Trump will have to address however Clinton running on the "cracking the glass ceiling" rethoric,given her husbands infidelity and numerous sex abuse allegations,is an insult to all women seeking equality.The thoughts of those two grifters back in the white house abusing the presidential office,as the state department was,for financial gain really would be sad.

    A theory not actually supported by any actual evidence. And Bill Clinton was very well liked in office, so this whole 'grifter' notion is really at odds with the reality of how their return to the white house will be received. People can't warm to Hillary, but they have no such problem with Bill.


  • #1628
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    https://twitter.com/tomtomorrow/status/778583670760345600/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Will Donald surprise us all and release his tax returns today?
    He will not


  • #1629
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Apparently Trump's proposed answer to the strained relationships between police and black communities is... (wait for it...)

    ...expanding stop-and-frisk nationwide.

    It really is hard sometimes to avoid the feeling that his entire campaign is one long parody.

    Stop and frisk works. Democrats have ruled over cesspool inner cities for decades, so thank them for doing nothing. Trump might be the person to change things around. In the long term a job is the most effective way to stop a bullet.


  • #1630
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Amerika wrote: »
    Stop and frisk works. Democrats have ruled over cesspool inner cities for decades, so thank them for doing nothing. Trump might be the person to change things around. In the long term a job is the most effective way to stop a bullet.

    No it doesn't.
    Under Bloomberg, NYPD stops grew from 100K (2002) to 550K-700K. Under de Blasio, down to 23K (2015).
    Crime rate stable

    https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/778681001585152000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


  • #1631
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    B0jangles wrote: »
    No it doesn't.



    https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/778681001585152000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    How does all crimes relate to Stop And Frisk? The main purpose of Stop And Frisk was the targeting of guns.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-seek-sweatsuit-clad-man-shot-bystander-brooklyn-article-1.2242439


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  • #1632
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Amerika wrote: »
    How does all crimes relate to Stop And Frisk? The main purpose of Stop And Frisk was the targeting of guns.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-seek-sweatsuit-clad-man-shot-bystander-brooklyn-article-1.2242439

    If the guns seized under stop and frisk policies were going to be used in criminal acts, would you not expect to see a change in the crime rate?

    If there is no measurable effect on the crime rate, what is the point?


  • #1633
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    B0jangles wrote: »
    If the guns seized under stop and frisk policies were going to be used in criminal acts, would you not expect to see a change in the crime rate?

    If there is no measurable effect on the crime rate, what is the point?

    Fair point, but if you were looking at the effectiveness of Stop And Frisk, wouldn't it be better to look at the actual gun voilence statistics?


  • #1634
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    Stop and frisk works. Democrats have ruled over cesspool inner cities for decades, so thank them for doing nothing. Trump might be the person to change things around. In the long term a job is the most effective way to stop a bullet.

    It's irrelevant whether stop and frisk works. The president doesn't have the power to implement the policy at local police levels.

    State and city governments direct police policy, not the Whitehouse. This is a nonsense smoke screen.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #1635
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    It's irrelevant whether stop and frisk works. The president doesn't have the power to implement the policy at local police levels.

    State and city governments direct police policy, not the Whitehouse. This is a nonsense smoke screen.

    Did Trump say he was going to implement Stop and Frisk, or did he merely call for implementation of Stop And Frisk in Chicago? Candidates have the right to an opinion on whether Stop and Frisk should or should not be utilized.

    And the status of Stop and Frisk is in the hands of the courts right now. Shira Scheindlin, a US District Judge for the Southern District of New York and appointed by a Democratic president, ruled in August 2013 that the stop and frisk practice was unconstitutional. Then in October 2013 the US Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit blocked the order requiring changes to the New York Police Department's Stop And Frisk program and removed Judge Shira Scheindlin from the case. The ruling is currently under appeal.


  • #1636
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amerika wrote: »
    Fair point, but if you were looking at the effectiveness of Stop And Frisk, wouldn't it be better to look at the actual gun voilence statistics?
    These analyses find no evidence that misdemeanor arrests reduced levels of homicide, robbery, or aggravated assaults.

    Studying New York City’s Crime Decline: Methodological Issues
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07418825.2012.752026
    Attorney General Eric Schneiderman’s office reviewed data from 2.4 million stops that took place between 2009 and 2012 and found that out of the 150,000 arrests that resulted from those stops, only 1.5% of them ended in jail sentences and only .1% of those arrests ended in convictions for violent crimes.

    While supporters of “stop-and-frisk” have argued that the policy has contributed to dropping crime rates in New York City, the Attorney General’s report found that the stops were not actually finding or preventing crimes. 97% percent of stops resulted in no conviction at all, although they did still utitlize city time and resources to reach those outcomes.

    The new report also found that the vast majority of crimes were non-violent and primarily drug-related, and that black and Latino arrestees faced harsher punishments than white defendents. The Attorney General’s office also released a report in 1999 that found black and Latino New Yorkers were stopped at far higher rates than white men and women.

    http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris-perry/report-finds-stop-and-frisk-does-not


  • #1637
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Here's a stop and frisk.

    http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/innocent-man-given-anal-cavity-search-colonoscopy-after-rolling-through-a-stop-sign/

    I'm going to say "no"...


  • #1638
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    alastair wrote: »
    YMMV.

    The Republican debates were just a circus of platitudes and insults. The next three are teasing out policy, with proper moderation. Clinton is at her best on policy wonk material, and Trump is hopeless. Even the disinterested will pick up on the gap of ability between them. I've no expectation of his doing any way well.

    Can you point me to some links of Hillary talking in depth about policy? Interested to hear her discuss something like that given all it has been for the last 6 months is tweets that are bitching about Trump. Send me on something where she gets her teeth into a proper policy issue or sets out a policy issue that will be a part of her presidency. Cheers


  • #1639
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Amerika wrote: »
    Stop and frisk works. Democrats have ruled over cesspool inner cities for decades, so thank them for doing nothing. Trump might be the person to change things around. In the long term a job is the most effective way to stop a bullet.

    Treat people like criminals and terrorists and many will act like ones. Many will just get sick of getting stopped 7 or 8 times just because of colour of skin for some strange reason.

    I'm always reminded of football hooligans in England, put them behind cages like animals and it make things worse. Change the environment and make it more family friendly and you get one of the richest spring leagues in the world.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1640
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,047 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Can you point me to some links of Hillary talking in depth about policy? Interested to hear her discuss something like that given all it has been for the last 6 months is tweets that are bitching about Trump. Send me on something where she gets her teeth into a proper policy issue or sets out a policy issue that will be a part of her presidency. Cheers

    How about this?

    Look at the difference in the answers given by both candidates to essentially the same question at the Veterans Townhall a few weeks ago..

    Clinton gives a fairly detailed answer (which people can agree or disagree with)..

    Trump says "Thanks for the question , everybody loves me, check out those Poll numbers!!"

    One answer is debating , the other is bull****ting to be frank and three 2hr+ debates of that I would hope would allow people to see the utter lack of depth that Trump has on any subject other than himself..


  • #1641
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Can you point me to some links of Hillary talking in depth about policy? Interested to hear her discuss something like that given all it has been for the last 6 months is tweets that are bitching about Trump. Send me on something where she gets her teeth into a proper policy issue or sets out a policy issue that will be a part of her presidency. Cheers

    your problem might be expecting information on twitter?

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=hillary%20clinton%20policy&eob=m.0d06m5//short

    Like you should almost be offended its that simple - but, it is. Google does a bang-up job telling you what her stance/policy is on a breadth of issues. There is also her website

    https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

    I think the insinuation you're reaching for is "she doesn't have any substance" when actually, it appears you just haven't looked.


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  • #1642
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    alastair wrote: »
    Studying New York City’s Crime Decline: Methodological Issues
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07418825.2012.752026



    http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris-perry/report-finds-stop-and-frisk-does-not

    Attorney General Eric Schneiderman?

    web_clockworkeric_jason_seiler-e1393364015483.jpg?quality=80&w=200

    The progressive political opportunist and former Democratic State Senator who has publicly denounced Donald Trump? The AG who has displayed vindictiveness toward political foes and is lenient (or conveniently ignorant) towards the suspect activities of political friends? That guy?

    I’m sure he approached Stop And Frisk with an open mind. :rolleyes:


  • #1643
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    K-9 wrote: »
    Treat people like criminals and terrorists and many will act like ones. Many will just get sick of getting stopped 7 or 8 times just because of colour of skin for some strange reason.

    I'm always reminded of football hooligans in England, put them behind cages like animals and it make things worse. Change the environment and make it more family friendly and you get one of the richest spring leagues in the world.
    Or more accurately IMO... If criminals are afraid they might be stopped and searched for guns, they won't carry guns.

    And that family friendly thing doesn't seem to be working... unless you are talking about the Hatfields and McCoys.


  • #1644
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    How about this?

    Look at the difference in the answers given by both candidates to essentially the same question at the Veterans Townhall a few weeks ago..

    Clinton gives a fairly detailed answer (which people can agree or disagree with)..

    Trump says "Thanks for the question , everybody loves me, check out those Poll numbers!!"

    One answer is debating , the other is bull****ting to be frank and three 2hr+ debates of that I would hope would allow people to see the utter lack of depth that Trump has on any subject other than himself..

    No i don't care for transcripts or statements released by her website. I want to see some video of Hillary discussing her policy objectives (in relative depth). I know that is something Trump is definitely unable to do but Hillary is the "serious" candidate of the two so i figure there will be some footage of some questions on policy being answered fully?


  • #1645
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,960 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    No i don't care for transcripts or statements released by her website. I want to see some video of Hillary discussing her policy objectives (in relative depth). I know that is something Trump is definitely unable to do but Hillary is the "serious" candidate of the two so i figure there will be some footage of some questions on policy being answered fully?

    This took me seconds to find:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KoqciVEysk

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #1646
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Overheal wrote: »
    your problem might be expecting information on twitter?

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=hillary%20clinton%20policy&eob=m.0d06m5//short

    Like you should almost be offended its that simple - but, it is. Google does a bang-up job telling you what her stance/policy is on a breadth of issues. There is also her website

    https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

    I think the insinuation you're reaching for is "she doesn't have any substance" when actually, it appears you just haven't looked.

    I have looked. I cannot see any video anywhere of Hillary setting out her policy objectives. Telling people in Michigan that she was going to protect the rust belt would only count if she set out the plan for doing so. All i have heard are meaningless soundbites.

    However, she is the real proper candidate so i am sure there is somewhere. Your two links - the first takes me to a google search and the second takes me to her website. Call my cynical but Hillary isnt a web designer and didn't design her website.

    I want to see Clinton exhibiting the smarts on policy issues that are going to definitely win her the debates. Can you point me to a video of such?


  • #1647
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    Amerika wrote: »
    Or more accurately IMO... If criminals are afraid they might be stopped and searched for guns, they won't carry guns.

    And that family friendly thing doesn't seem to be working... unless you are talking about the Hatfields and McCoys.

    Any evidence to back up your statement?


  • #1648
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Amerika wrote: »
    Or more accurately IMO... If criminals are afraid they might be stopped and searched for guns, they won't carry guns.

    And that family friendly thing doesn't seem to be working... unless you are talking about the Hatfields and McCoys.

    It seems debatable how successful it is plus it contributed to things like black lives matters which creates even more divide along racial lines.

    The family friendly thing works in England compared to what watching a soccer game was like in the 80's.

    If you are looking for something that will stop all gun crime well it isn't going to do that, nothing will in a gun loving country like the US. But generally, stop racially profiling people and they won't feel as if they are getting targeted because of just the colour of their skin. Don't treat a Muslim as a suspected terrorist and there's less chance they'll go "feck this, everybody thinks I'm a terrorist so..."

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1649
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    This took me seconds to find:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KoqciVEysk

    I saw that speech. Hence why i was able to disregard it. Extremely unimpressive.


  • #1650
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,960 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Amerika wrote: »
    Or more accurately IMO... If criminals are afraid they might be stopped and searched for guns, they won't carry guns.

    And that family friendly thing doesn't seem to be working... unless you are talking about the Hatfields and McCoys.

    US conservatives have been spectacularly wrong about guns long enough that I can't afford their opinions any legitimacy.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • #1651
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    This took me seconds to find:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KoqciVEysk

    I can’t watch the video, but looking at the header regarding 'Foreign Policy,' I have to ask... Is she touting undermining the sacrifice of servicemen and women by reaching out to the Taliban in Afghanistan while they were killing American troops? Does she tout supporting the withdrawal of American troops in Iraq which led to the creation of ISIS? Does she tout supporting the Muslim Brotherhood (a designated terrorist organization in Egypt, UAE and Saudi Arabia) throughout the Middle East and in the United States which undermined American Muslim allies? Did she tout refusing to designate the Boko Haram as a foreign terrorist organization in Nigeria? Did she tout undermining the democratic Iranian Green Revolution in 2009? And does she tout supporting the Iran Nuclear deal? Quite some foreign policy accomplishments, wouldn't you say?


This discussion has been closed.
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