TV Licence Question?

Adamzapple777 · 21-09-2016 04:44PM #1

Do you need a TV Licence in Irleland if you have a TV solely to be used for a Wii and a media player?
A relative has moved into an apartment and has a TV with no cable, satellite, free view etc and no requirement for any. They just want to play with the Wii and watch the occasional movie on the media player.

emo72 · 21-09-2016 04:48PM

if the tv cant receive a tv signal then no. basically you want a monitor. but if it can receive a signal then yes you need a license.

artanevilla · 21-09-2016 04:55PM

If it has a connector in the back for an aerial it needs a licence.

Adamzapple777 · 21-09-2016 09:41PM

Thanks, but which is it?
The TV has an aerial socket I think but there is no aerial of any kind in the house so it can't receive a signal.
This is a student house and the people living there have no interest in watching RTE or any other TV channel, they won't be there long enough to warrant buying a TV Licence for a year.
They have no problem allowing a TV inspector to verify the setup if necessary.

brian_t · 21-09-2016 09:47PM

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html

Gatling · 21-09-2016 09:49PM

Adamzapple777 wrote: »

They have no problem allowing a TV inspector to verify the setup if necessary.

Unfortunately as long as they have an actual TV then they need a licence ,

artanevilla · 22-09-2016 10:07AM

Adamzapple777 wrote: »

Thanks, but which is it?
The TV has an aerial socket I think but there is no aerial of any kind in the house so it can't receive a signal.
This is a student house and the people living there have no interest in watching RTE or any other TV channel, they won't be there long enough to warrant buying a TV Licence for a year.
They have no problem allowing a TV inspector to verify the setup if necessary.

If it has an aerial socket it's capable of receiving a signal, whether there's a aerial in the house or not. Even if it's sitting out in the shed under a pile of coats it still technically needs a licence.

blackwhite · 22-09-2016 10:08AM

Adamzapple777 wrote: »

Thanks, but which is it?
The TV has an aerial socket I think but there is no aerial of any kind in the house so it can't receive a signal.
This is a student house and the people living there have no interest in watching RTE or any other TV channel, they won't be there long enough to warrant buying a TV Licence for a year.
They have no problem allowing a TV inspector to verify the setup if necessary.

If the TV is capable of receiving a signal then you need a licence.

Whether or not it is actually connected to an aerial or cable connection is irrelevent, once it is capable of being connected to one a licence is required.

EDIT - Artaneville beat me to it!

Carawaystick · 22-09-2016 11:51AM

If you remove the aerial socket, it no longer can receive a signal. Crushing the socket, so the outside touches the inner bit will short out any signal, so none can be received.

brian_t · 22-09-2016 12:07PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

If you remove the aerial socket, it no longer can receive a signal. Crushing the socket, so the outside touches the inner bit will short out any signal, so none can be received.

According to my link above.

Even if the television or other equipment is broken and currently unable to receive a signal, it is regarded as capable of being repaired so it can receive a signal and you must hold a licence for it.

Carawaystick · 22-09-2016 01:30PM

brian_t wrote: »

According to my link above.

It's not the first, and it won't be the last time citizensinformation was completely wrong about anything.

Broadcasting act 2009 S140 wrote:

television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;

If the apparatus is incapable of receiving broadcasting services by shorting out the tuner, it was a tv, and possibly could be a tv in the future, but in the present, is not a tv.

Discodog · 22-09-2016 06:05PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's not the first, and it won't be the last time citizensinformation was completely wrong about anything.

If the apparatus is incapable of receiving broadcasting services by shorting out the tuner, it was a tv, and possibly could be a tv in the future, but in the present, is not a tv.

Correct. A friend of mine used to repair tv's. He has been asked on several occasions to remove the tuner so that it can only be used as a monitor. Apparently big tvs are cheaper than big monitors. He does a letter confirming that the tv is no longer a tv .

rawn · 22-09-2016 06:15PM

Wasn't there a case where a man was brought to court over non-payment and the case was dismissed as he could prove the TV he had could not receive a signal?

GM228 · 22-09-2016 06:35PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's not the first, and it won't be the last time citizensinformation was completely wrong about anything.

If the apparatus is incapable of receiving broadcasting services by shorting out the tuner, it was a tv, and possibly could be a tv in the future, but in the present, is not a tv.

A TV does not necessarily need a tuner to be liable for the fee, so unless the SCART and HDMI sockets were also removed (or not fitted in the first place) simply breaking the coax cables still makes it possible to receive and display TV signals via an external device such as a Saorview box.

Losty Dublin · 22-09-2016 08:57PM

rawn wrote: »

Wasn't there a case where a man was brought to court over non-payment and the case was dismissed as he could prove the TV he had could not receive a signal?

A user on here made such an assertion some time ago. Make what you will of that

Adamzapple777 · 22-09-2016 09:01PM

Let me be clear, they're not trying to find a loophole around the rules to avoid paying the license fee, they just want to avoid having to pay for something they have absolutely no intention of using. I thought the whole point of the TV Licence fee was to subsidise RTÉ, they won't be watching RTE, ITV, BBC, Sky or any form of broadcast TV.

rawn · 22-09-2016 09:07PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

A user on here made such an assertion some time ago. Make what you will of that

I have no idea of that discussion

emo72 · 22-09-2016 09:11PM

GM228 wrote: »

A TV does not necessarily need a tuner to be liable for the fee, so unless the SCART and HDMI sockets were also removed (or not fitted in the first place) simply breaking the coax cables still makes it possible to receive and display TV signals via an external device such as a Saorview box.

That doesn't make sense. How would you connect it to your PC then? You need some input for the monitor to display content.

homingbird · 22-09-2016 09:16PM

Wasnt there talk of changing the tv licence to call it a media licence as you can watch rte from your pc.

CPTM · 22-09-2016 09:17PM

Adamzapple777 wrote:

Let me be clear, they're not trying to find a loophole around the rules to avoid paying the license fee, they just want to avoid having to pay for something they have absolutely no intention of using. I thought the whole point of the TV Licence fee was to subsidise RTÃ‰, they won't be watching RTE, ITV, BBC, Sky or any form of broadcast TV.

I hear you, am the same myself. I have no interest in RTE or any of the rest of them. But they've no way of knowing that for sure so I guess they just look whether there's a tv and that's it. I've seen cases where even if they don't have anyone answering the door, if they see a tv through the window they send a summons to court. They'll have internet access through their Wii right? So they'll have access to rte player? What's the rule on that? Laptops etc therefore in scope?

Carawaystick · 23-09-2016 08:38AM

GM228 wrote: »

A TV does not necessarily need a tuner to be liable for the fee, so unless the SCART and HDMI sockets were also removed (or not fitted in the first place) simply breaking the coax cables still makes it possible to receive and display TV signals via an external device such as a Saorview box.

So all monitors need a tv license by that reckoning?

The apparatus has to be cabable of receiving broadcasting services. a seperate tuner box together with a hdmi cable and a monitor is a tv, but no tuner, no tv.

Otherwise where do you stop? a coat hanger is capable of receiving a tv signal as long as its connected to a tv... do I need a tv license for my coat hanger?

GM228 · 23-09-2016 10:05AM

Carawaystick wrote: »

So all monitors need a tv license by that reckoning?

The apparatus has to be cabable of receiving broadcasting services. a seperate tuner box together with a hdmi cable and a monitor is a tv, but no tuner, no tv.

Otherwise where do you stop? a coat hanger is capable of receiving a tv signal as long as its connected to a tv... do I need a tv license for my coat hanger?

Actually no the aperatus itself does not need to have a tuner.

A TV simply needs to be able to receive and display a TV signal to be liable for a licence, whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it.

With regards to monitors, any monitor with a display size of more than 160 cm2, capable of displaying television channels distributed by conventional broadcast networks (e.g. cable, satellite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS) using a television tuner card or related device is liable for the licence. So for example stick a Saorview box to a monitor and you need to get a licence.

Legislation is based on capability, not the actual use of.

emo72 · 23-09-2016 10:51AM

Can all monitors receive a TV signal?

rawn · 23-09-2016 11:22AM

If I were to hook a projector up to my computer and use that to watch stuff on instead of a tv or monitor then there'd be no tv license needed?

Carawaystick · 23-09-2016 02:37PM

GM228 wrote: »

So for example stick a Saorview box to a monitor and you need to get a licence.

Would this saorview box have a tuner then? So you've a tuner and monitor?

Which needs a license. But no tuner = no license needed.

GM228 · 23-09-2016 06:23PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

Would this saorview box have a tuner then? So you've a tuner and monitor?

Which needs a license. But no tuner = no license needed.

There is nothing in legislation about requiring a tuner, the requirement is simply that you can receive and view TV on an electronic apparatus, how you actually receive or decode the TV is not a requirement of the legislation.

From the TV Licence website:-
http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/TVLicence/TVLicenceStandard.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID=%7b0C160E7A-4F62-4357-BC21-7FB999396792%7d&NRORIGINALURL=%2fAnPost%2fMainContent%2fPersonal%2bCustomers%2fMore%2bfrom%2bAn%2bPost%2fTV%2bLicence%2fGeneral%2bTV%2bLicence%2bFAQs%2ehtm&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#NoUpgrade

I only watch TV content on a monitor, Do I need a TV Licence?

You require a TV Licence in the following circumstances:

Connecting a SKY/Virgin Media/Saorview or any type of Digital TV Receiver to your monitor

Viewing any content provided by a TV service provider over broadband (e.g. Eir TV/Vodafone TV) on your monitor

Carawaystick · 23-09-2016 08:13PM

How can you receive a broadcast tv signal without a tuner?
If it's over the air or on cable, it needs to be mixed down from a carrier signal, and decoded aka tuned

If you get it from a decoder box it's still received and decided by the box. You need more than a monitor to exhibit the tv

GM228 · 25-09-2016 07:49AM

Carawaystick wrote: »

How can you receive a broadcast tv signal without a tuner?

Via Broadband for example.

Viewing any content provided by a TV service provider over broadband (e.g. Eir TV/Vodafone TV) on your monitor

As I said the legislation is simply about a device with a capability of receiving and exhibiting a TV broadcast service (not a TV broadcast signal) whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it.

If you are viewing a TV broadcast service via Broadband you satisfy the legislative requirement and you don't even have a tuner - no tuner does not necessarily mean no licence.

Discodog · 25-09-2016 09:20AM

GM228 wrote: »

Via Broadband for example.

As I said the legislation is simply about a device with a capability of receiving and exhibiting a TV broadcast service (not a TV broadcast signal) whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it.

If you are viewing a TV broadcast service via Broadband you satisfy the legislative requirement and you don't even have a tuner - no tuner does not necessarily mean no licence.

Then every PC, Laptop, Tablet & Phone requires a TV license as they can all receive television programmes via the internet.

A TV tuner is a device which can receive programmes when connected to an aerial. A computer can only do this if a TV reception card is part of the computer.

You do not require a television licence to watch television on your computer or mobile phone. However, the computer must not be able to receive a signal distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks, for example, cable, satellite or aerial.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html#l1f4da

The information from An Post is deliberately ambiguous.

GM228 · 25-09-2016 09:47AM

Discodog wrote: »

Then every PC, Laptop, Tablet & Phone requires a TV license as they can all receive television programmes via the internet.

A TV tuner is a device which can receive programmes when connected to an aerial. A computer can only do this if a TV reception card is part of the computer.

You do not require a television licence to watch television on your computer or mobile phone. However, the computer must not be able to receive a signal distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks, for example, cable, satellite or aerial.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html#l1f4da

The information from An Post is deliberately ambiguous.

Any device with a screen size less than 160cm2 is exempt such as mobile phones, tablets, small laptops etc.

What is quoted by the TV Licence website re a broadband TV service is correct, legislation simply requires you to be able to receive and view TV broadcast services. Legislation excludes audio services via the internet but not TV broadcast services.

Citizens Information is not an accurate source of information, for example the quote you have given mentions conventional broadcasting networks, but legislation is actually based on electronic broadcasting networks which includes the internet.

The TV licence website is run by An Post in conjunction with the Department of Communications, Climate Action & Environment and is more accurate than CI.

Discodog · 25-09-2016 11:47AM

GM228 wrote: »

Any device with a screen size less than 160cm2 is exempt such as mobile phones, tablets, small laptops etc.

What is quoted by the TV Licence website re a broadband TV service is correct, legislation simply requires you to be able to receive and view TV broadcast services. Legislation excludes audio services via the internet but not TV broadcast services.

Citizens Information is not an accurate source of information, for example the quote you have given mentions conventional broadcasting networks, but legislation is actually based on electronic broadcasting networks which includes the internet.

The TV licence website is run by An Post in conjunction with the Department of Communications, Climate Action & Environment and is more accurate than CI.

Can you link to the legislation rather than An Post's, who are new to tv enforcement. If you are correct then there would be no need for the proposed media tax.

Edit:
“television set” means any apparatus for wireless telegraphy designed primarily for the purpose of receiving and exhibiting television programmes broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction therewith) and any assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1972/act/5/section/1/enacted/en/html#sec1

The highlighted clause ( my highlighting) clearly shows that a computer etc does not need a license as it's not it's primary purpose.

TV Licence Question?

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