TV Licence Question?

GM228 · 26-09-2016 05:42PM

Discodog wrote: »

I suspect that they would side with a defendant who took his information from a faq on a Dept website.

That's the point I'm making, in fairness it is poorly written, BUT, it confirms you need a licence

That's not a great defence

But if they won't bring any such prosecutions it's all irrelevant I suppose.

GM228 · 26-09-2016 05:52PM

AryaStark wrote: »

I had this issue before and had to get the tv removed. I rented a flat that had a tv but I did not use it and it was never plugged in! The tv inspector said it didn't matter and that I still needed a tv licence. I got the landlord to remove the tv from the apartment.

That's correct, legislation is about keeping a TV set on a premises, not specifically using it!

nuac · 26-09-2016 07:34PM

Mod
Good general discussion.
Thought it best to let it run

Johnboy1951 · 18-10-2016 04:36PM

GM228 wrote: »

That's the point I'm making, in fairness it is poorly written, BUT, it confirms you need a licence That's not a great defence

But if they won't bring any such prosecutions it's all irrelevant I suppose.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/319/made/en/print

3. The following classes of television set are declared to be classes of television set to which section 142 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 (No. 18 of 2009) does not apply, namely—

(a) a non-portable television set capable of exhibiting television broadcasting services distributed by means of the publicly available Internet, and

(b) a portable television set.

(thanks The Cush for the link)

So although the legislation is 'ready' that part that refers to receiving TV over the internet has been specifically excluded for the moment by the SI?

This Order provides for the exemption from the television licensing requirements of section 142 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 of (a) portable devices with a display size of not more than 160 cm2 capable of exhibiting television services e.g. mobile phones or personal digital assistants, and (b) other devices, e.g. personal computers or laptops, capable of accessing the Internet and television-like services streamed via websites.

This order does not exempt from the television licensing requirements devices (e.g. personal computers or laptops) with a display size of more than 160 cm2, capable of displaying television channels (e.g. RTÉ Two, TV3, TG4, BBC One, 3e) distributed by conventional broadcast networks (e.g. cable, satellite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS) using a television tuner card or related device (whether or not such devices are also capable of accessing the Internet or television-like services streamed via websites).

GM228 · 18-10-2016 05:17PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/319/made/en/print

(thanks The Cush for the link)

So although the legislation is 'ready' that part that refers to receiving TV over the internet has been specifically excluded for the moment by the SI?

Internet TV (over the top TV) over the public internet is exempt, IPTV (internet protocol TV) isn't exempt, in other words any TV distributed to you via your IP network isn't exempt.

Johnboy1951 · 18-10-2016 05:34PM

GM228 wrote: »

Internet TV (over the top TV) over the public internet is exempt, IPTV (internet protocol TV) isn't exempt, in other words any TV distributed to you via your IP network isn't exempt.

I have no clarity as to what distinguishes those two .... both refer to Internet Protocol (IP). So apparently it is not the protocol used nor the hardware used to make the connection (network/internet), that distinguishes them.
I could do with some clarification, thanks.

Adamzapple777 · 18-10-2016 09:11PM

Is it possible to buy a licence for the duration of a stay or do you have to buy it for a full year?
For example if they know they are only going to stay in the place for a few months can they just buy a licence for those few months?

wirelessdude01 · 18-10-2016 09:12PM

Adamzapple777 wrote:

Do you need a TV Licence in Irleland if you have a TV solely to be used for a Wii and a media player? A relative has moved into an apartment and has a TV with no cable, satellite, free view etc and no requirement for any. They just want to play with the Wii and watch the occasional movie on the media player.

Adamzapple777 wrote:

Is it possible to buy a licence for the duration of a stay or do you have to buy it for a full year? For example if they know they are only going to stay in the place for a few months can they just buy a licence for those few months?

Love to know the answer to this as well.

punisher5112 · 18-10-2016 09:13PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Love to know the answer to this as well.

No. You can pay monthly though

GM228 · 19-10-2016 07:49AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I have no clarity as to what distinguishes those two .... both refer to Internet Protocol (IP). So apparently it is not the protocol used nor the hardware used to make the connection (network/internet), that distinguishes them.
I could do with some clarification, thanks.

It can be difficult to distinguish between the two, there are two forms of TV over the internet - Internet TV (which is OTT) and IPTV, they are effectively two sides of the same coin. The main difference between OTT and IPTV is that although both use internet, OTT streaming is delivered through open unmanaged internet, while IPTV use a dedicated, managed IP network. Yes both use the Internet Protocol, but only in IPTV is the IP used to control/manage the content.

IPTV is basically a technology used to deliver the TV, OTT is a business model independent of the operator.

SixSixSix · 19-10-2016 08:09AM

punisher5112 wrote: »

No. You can pay monthly though

AFAIK you can pay monthly but not for a limited number of months.

GM228 · 19-10-2016 08:54AM

SixSixSix wrote: »

AFAIK you can pay monthly but not for a limited number of months.

Indeed you are liable for the full yearly charge even if circumstances change in the meantime such as getting rid of your TV or moving home.

Johnboy1951 · 19-10-2016 10:14AM

GM228 wrote: »

Internet TV (over the top TV) over the public internet is exempt, IPTV (internet protocol TV) isn't exempt, in other words any TV distributed to you via your IP network isn't exempt.

GM228 wrote: »

It can be difficult to distinguish between the two, there are two forms of TV over the internet - Internet TV (which is OTT) and IPTV, they are effectively two sides of the same coin. The main difference between OTT and IPTV is that although both use internet, OTT streaming is delivered through open unmanaged internet, while IPTV use a dedicated, managed IP network. Yes both use the Internet Protocol, but only in IPTV is the IP used to control/manage the content.

IPTV is basically a technology used to deliver the TV, OTT is a business model independent of the operator.

Thanks for trying, but I just ain't getting it

It seems that because IPTV is a means of "broadcasting" using the medium of the internet that it needs a licence whereas Internet TV is 'streaming' and needs no licence?

Maybe it will become clear to me in the future ..... for now we can let this drop.
Thanks for trying to get me to understand it

plodder · 19-10-2016 10:46AM

GM228 wrote: »

Internet TV (over the top TV) over the public internet is exempt, IPTV (internet protocol TV) isn't exempt, in other words any TV distributed to you via your IP network isn't exempt.

Do you have a link to the SI that specifies this? Not doubting you, but I would be quite interested to see how they word it.

It doesn't seem like a reliable way to ensure TV license revenue in the long term.

GM228 · 19-10-2016 11:45AM

plodder wrote: »

Do you have a link to the SI that specifies this? Not doubting you, but I would be quite interested to see how they word it.

It doesn't seem like a reliable way to ensure TV license revenue in the long term.

The link has been provided several posts ago, but here it is again:-

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/319/made/en/print

Also relevant is the Broadcasting Act 2009.

plodder · 19-10-2016 03:26PM

GM228 wrote: »

The link has been provided several posts ago, but here it is again:-

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/319/made/en/print

Also relevant is the Broadcasting Act 2009.

So, while IP TV would generally require a license the exception is:

a non-portable television set capable of exhibiting television broadcasting services distributed by means of the publicly available Internet,

which is not liable for TV license. So, I guess that can be enforced for domestic broadcasters, but if you're prepared to live without RTE/TV3 etc then it won't stop you accessing foreign channels delivered over the public internet.

GM228 · 19-10-2016 03:33PM

plodder wrote: »

So, while IP TV would generally require a license the exception is:

which is not liable for TV license. So, I guess that can be enforced for domestic broadcasters, but if you're prepared to live without RTE/TV3 etc then it won't stop you accessing foreign channels delivered over the public internet.

There are only two ways of receiving TV via the internet, one is OTT, the other being IPTV, and IPTV specifically isn't exempted which means the exemption order only applies to OTT.

So if it's an OTT type broadcast then yes foreign channels are exempt, if they are broadcast via IPTV then no they aren't exempt. And the problem is as I said already OTT and IPTV are basically the two sides of the same coin - it can get very confusing.

Johnboy1951 · 19-10-2016 04:30PM

GM228 wrote: »

There are only two ways of receiving TV via the publicly available internet, one is OTT, the other being IPTV, and IPTV specifically isn't exempted which means the exemption order only applies to OTT.

So if it's an OTT type broadcast then yes foreign channels are exempt, if they are broadcast via IPTV then no they aren't exempt. And the problem is as I said already OTT and IPTV are basically the two sides of the same coin - it can get very confusing.

I was looking about for examples and landed on
http://www.filmon.tv/search/?term=RTE

This says

IPTV results for RTE

(there are none for RTÉ but this is just an example)

So is the Filmon free service IPTV or not?

plodder · 19-10-2016 05:12PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I was looking about for examples and landed on
http://www.filmon.tv/search/?term=RTE

This says

(there are none for RTÉ but this is just an example)

So is the Filmon free service IPTV or not?

The distinction that is important for the TV license is whether the service is delivered over the public internet, or not. So, if the service is accessible from a known domain name like "filmon.tv" then the TV license does not apply.

The TV services supplied by Eir and Virgin to their subscribers (who pay for TV) are getting them effectively from private IP addresses that are not accessible to non subscribers. It's that case only, where the TV license applies.

Considering that RTE and TV3 are both accessible over public websites through RTE player etc. that will be a problem long term I think with the current regulations.

Johnboy1951 · 19-10-2016 05:51PM

plodder wrote: »

The distinction that is important for the TV license is whether the service is delivered over the public internet, or not. So, if the service is accessible from a known domain name like "filmon.tv" then the TV license does not apply.

The TV services supplied by Eir and Virgin to their subscribers (who pay for TV) are getting them effectively from private IP addresses that are not accessible to non subscribers. It's that case only, where the TV license applies.

Considering that RTE and TV3 are both accessible over public websites through RTE player etc. that will be a problem long term I think with the current regulations.

Thanks.

So the filmon.tv free service does not require a licence.
What about the filmon.tv premium service?
This also is not accessible to non-subscribers.

Fred Swanson · 19-10-2016 05:53PM

This post has been deleted.

Johnboy1951 · 19-10-2016 05:57PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

As I understand it they all use Internet Protocol (IP) ....... maybe you could elaborate please.

Fred Swanson · 19-10-2016 06:17PM

This post has been deleted.

GM228 · 19-10-2016 06:32PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

As I understand it they all use Internet Protocol (IP) ....... maybe you could elaborate please.

I thought I already did explain this one try to explain the difference!

It can be difficult to distinguish between the two, there are two forms of TV over the internet - Internet TV (which is OTT) and IPTV, they are effectively two sides of the same coin. The main difference between OTT and IPTV is that although both use internet, OTT streaming is delivered through open unmanaged internet, while IPTV use a dedicated, managed IP network. Yes both use the Internet Protocol, but only in IPTV is the IP used to control/manage the content.

IPTV is basically a technology used to deliver the TV, OTT is a business model independent of the operator.

TheChizler · 19-10-2016 06:33PM

Eircom and Vodafone use a combination of VLANs and multicasting, and the data only goes on their private networks and not on the public Internet.

plodder · 19-10-2016 07:35PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Thanks.

So the filmon.tv free service does not require a licence.
What about the filmon.tv premium service?
This also is not accessible to non-subscribers.

again the distinction is public internet versus private internet. Subscription/premium services like that one are still accessed via the public internet. So, they would still be TV license free in my book.

GM228 · 19-10-2016 08:15PM

plodder wrote: »

again the distinction is public internet versus private internet. Subscription/premium services like that one are still accessed via the public internet. So, they would still be TV license free in my book.

It's actually public internet vs IPTV. Technically there's no such thing as private internet, although there are private networks.

IPTV can also actually be delivered via the public internet.

Adamzapple777 · 19-10-2016 08:24PM

GM228 wrote: »

Indeed you are liable for the full yearly charge even if circumstances change in the meantime such as getting rid of your TV or moving home.

Shame really, they'd probably have a lower level of evasion if people were able to only pay for what they needed.
As it stands they're not only being asked to pay for something they don't want and won't be using they're also being asked to pay for a lot longer than they could possibly be using it if they wanted to.

They're going to take their chances and not bother paying anything, if they are caught they'll be long gone by the time anything comes of it.
Quite frankly I don't blame them.

If there was the option to pay monthly and stop it when they move on (or take it with them) they'd probably (though reluctantly) do that instead.

plodder · 19-10-2016 08:32PM

GM228 wrote: »

It's actually public internet vs IPTV. Technically there's no such thing as private internet, although there are private networks.

IPTV can also actually be delivered via the public internet.

It's just terminology and you'll often find multiple definitions for any of these terms. So long as you define what you mean there is no problem. The key point is that the exemption we are talking about applies to the "publicly available Internet" and I don't think there is any dispute what that means.

TV Licence Question?

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