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SFC Final - Dublin v Mayo - *Read Mod Note in post #1 & #1393*
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Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,716 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 15155
Just watched a repeat of All Ireland Day (2015) on RTE 1 last night. While Coldrick had an OK day, what struck me was that he was on first name terms with ALL of the Dublin team. He knew a few of the Kerry lads. This had to have given a psychological disadvantage to Kerry.
Gough definitely sends his love from the Dubs!
:p:p 0 -
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »Interesting read.
Looking at the graphic it seems that Rock rarely attempts from outside his "range" where as Cillian is expected to kick from all angles and distances.
And as the article says Dublin usually play short when its not in range, Mayo rely on the free taker way more.
It is an interesting read, and you would think that it is something that Mayo could improve on. Every chance will matter against Dublin and you need to be smarter than going for scores from very difficult angles.Wait. Hold up a second.
Cillian O'Connor:
2011 - Young player of the year
2012 - Young player of the year
2013 - Top scorer in championship
2014 - Top scorer in championship
2015 - Top scorer in championship, or second if you count Quigley pushing Cluxton over the line as a goal for Quigley - different sources give different top scorers here.
2016 - will be second top scorer in championship
And he wouldn't make the Dublin team?
There's a fairly one eyed view of Dublin on this forum. Yes, they are brilliant, but imagine how good they'd be with another one of the best forwards in the country?
If somebody was to ask me to pick a team from the last 5 years, then I would pick O'Connor over Rock - there is no question about it. However, if I was to choose which one is better on current form, then the answer has to be Rock. I dont think this is a 'one eyed view of Dublin' at all. I am a regular on the Mayo thread and it has been a common theme all through the year that Cillian has not been himself (I remember replying to a Mayo poster on it who suggested he had a bad game against Westmeath, I think, saying he did well that day).
I stick with my point that I think Rock is the better of the 2 going into this final, and I think that the current stats back me on it. Rock has a better conversion rate this year, he has a far better scoring average than O'Connor (http://gaelicstats.com/2016-football-top-scorer/), I could not find how much each had scored from play unfortunately but I do feel that Rock has won a lot more of his own frees than O'Connor (this would be another interesting article if there is some journalist reading this looking for ideas
).
In summary, O'Connor would be my choice when selecting who was the better player over the last 5 years. If I was a manager going into a final this week, then I would prefer to have Rock in my team.0 -
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TCDStudent1 wrote: »It is an interesting read, and you would think that it is something that Mayo could improve on. Every chance will matter against Dublin and you need to be smarter than going for scores from very difficult angles.
If somebody was to ask me to pick a team from the last 5 years, then I would pick O'Connor over Rock - there is no question about it. However, if I was to choose which one is better on current form, then the answer has to be Rock. I dont think this is a 'one eyed view of Dublin' at all. I am a regular on the Mayo thread and it has been a common theme all through the year that Cillian has not been himself (I remember replying to a Mayo poster on it who suggested he had a bad game against Westmeath, I think, saying he did well that day).
I stick with my point that I think Rock is the better of the 2 going into this final, and I think that the current stats back me on it. Rock has a better conversion rate this year, he has a far better scoring average than O'Connor (http://gaelicstats.com/2016-football-top-scorer/), I could not find how much each had scored from play unfortunately but I do feel that Rock has won a lot more of his own frees than O'Connor (this would be another interesting article if there is some journalist reading this looking for ideas ).
In summary, O'Connor would be my choice when selecting who was the better player over the last 5 years. If I was a manager going into a final this week, then I would prefer to have Rock in my team.
FFS Rock isnt in the same class as O'Connor. Even the most one eyed people can see that. 70-80% of Rocks frees are 20M out in front of the goal and my granny would kick those over. Rock is there purely for his freetaking and wait and see when the real pressure comes on and goes to pot. He is a donkey in open play.0 -
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As apposed to all that open play magnificance OConnor shows. They are both top free takers who are limited players after that.TCDStudent1 wrote: »It is an interesting read, and you would think that it is something that Mayo could improve on. Every chance will matter against Dublin and you need to be smarter than going for scores from very difficult angles.
If somebody was to ask me to pick a team from the last 5 years, then I would pick O'Connor over Rock - there is no question about it. However, if I was to choose which one is better on current form, then the answer has to be Rock. I dont think this is a 'one eyed view of Dublin' at all. I am a regular on the Mayo thread and it has been a common theme all through the year that Cillian has not been himself (I remember replying to a Mayo poster on it who suggested he had a bad game against Westmeath, I think, saying he did well that day).
I stick with my point that I think Rock is the better of the 2 going into this final, and I think that the current stats back me on it. Rock has a better conversion rate this year, he has a far better scoring average than O'Connor (http://gaelicstats.com/2016-football-top-scorer/), I could not find how much each had scored from play unfortunately but I do feel that Rock has won a lot more of his own frees than O'Connor (this would be another interesting article if there is some journalist reading this looking for ideas ).
In summary, O'Connor would be my choice when selecting who was the better player over the last 5 years. If I was a manager going into a final this week, then I would prefer to have Rock in my team.
FFS Rock isnt in the same class as O'Connor. Even the most one eyed people can see that. 70-80% of Rocks frees are 20M out in front of the goal and my granny would kick those over. Rock is there purely for his freetaking and wait and see when the real pressure comes on and goes to pot. He is a donkey in open play.0 -
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Heremartyos121 wrote: »This is getting silly now. Dean Rock is the championships leading scorer. CO'C isn't even in the top 10, but we are supposed to take him over Deano? Come on now people ! :rolleyes:
(Sorry if this messes up anyones browser. Couldn't find a smaller version.)
That table was last updated on the 2nd of August ProudDUB. Cillian O'Connor is now second behind Dean Rock. He's also scored more from play than Rock. Rock has had the better conversion rate from frees this year but Cillian's been banging them over for five years now, and put on a free scoring clinic in the drawn game against ye last year. That substandard performance against Galway is well behind him now. Yes he's still some margin behind Rock in second place but Evan Regan took plenty of frees off COC this year, and he'll more than likely continue to do so given his ability at knocking them over from the right side of the field.
But none of that suits your agenda, does it? You'd just rather use an outdated table to make a Mayo lad look bad. And then you call others silly. :rolleyes:
I'm not even saying COC is better than Rock at frees, just pointing out that the margin between them is nowhere near as large as you'd have people believe it is and you had to use outdated data to try and prove your point.
Sidenote: your contempt for Cillian O'Connor is hilarious.0 -
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Below shows both free takers scores and misses. Of the points scored, there is not much of a difference, all from the same range and distance really. OConnor seems to miss the ones from the right hand side and the tight angles, which maybe proves he should not be taking them and Mayo should have an alternative tactic.The Talking Bread wrote: »Anyway. You have to earn frees to score frees. The issue people need to concentrate more so in a stadium like Croker with two very talented freetakers is how the rest of the team can draw the fouls. Neither will miss many if they get them. And O Connor can hit 45s and has better angle range so I think most teams would prefer him with a placed ball.
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